Atlanta

[Tom958]

I mean, i think at that point we are arguing semantics and terminology.
If you want to take 285 from 20WB, you are going to have to make that decision at Wesley Chapel and will have 2 to 3 lanes to drive on until you merge on 285. 

You're  arguing "semantics and terminology" because you don't know what you're talking about. "Collector-distributor road" is an engineering term with a specific meaning that needs to be used correctly and not debased out of sheer apathy and sloppiness by either laypeople such as yourself or GDOT.

If you don't believe me, here's the layout. See for yourself.

[Roadsguy]

here's the layout.

Does this link not work for anyone else?

[US 89]

here's the layout.

Does this link not work for anyone else?

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[Georgia]

https://gdot.maps.arcgis.com/sharing/rest/content/items/c134c988644c465587eff605ab837393/data

I think that is the relevant roll map

[Tom958]

Headed westward on 285 approaching 400 yesterday, it occurred to me that the next breakthrough might be the opening of the final iteration of the westbound Ashford Dunwoody and Peachtree Dunwoody offramps, the latter of which would be the first of the four that'll pass under the outer spans of the surviving existing 1960s bridges. The final configuration will have a single offramp for both 400 and Peachtree Dunwoody (with no control cities on the old signage plan I've seen), but the existing ramps to 400 will still have to remain in use for a while. Still, it'd be advantageous to divert that traffic off the mainline before the mainline is choked down to three lanes in June or whenever.

[Tomahawkin]

I agree. And it's nice to see that they are adding street lights to the CD lanes, and some of the vertical mounts for the overhead sign bridges are being installed. Looks like this project will be completed a year and a half past the set completion date???

[Finrod]

I'm wondering if the stoplight installed at Paper Mill Road and Woodlawn Drive is ever going to be activated.  It was installed something like 2 years ago and has done nothing but blink ever since.

Just commuted through this area yesterday, 2.5 years after I posted this-- the Stop signs are still up and the stoplight continues to do nothing but blink red.  It's ridiculous, keeping this intersection as a 3-way Stop means that it's faster to go Johnson Ferry --> Powers Road --> Woodlawn Drive --> Paper Mill than it is just to go Johnson Ferry --> Paper Mill when there's any significant amount of traffic, because you're one of two or three cars waiting for the stop sign on Woodlawn Drive instead of the twenty+ waiting for the stop sign on Paper Mill.

[Tom958]

Crossposted at https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11045.msg2738221#msg2738221

This guy had been kicking around the i-285-GA 400 construction site for the last several months. It's made of the modified top half of this sign and the modified bottom half of this one. Below is my photo from a few weeks ago, but here's a Streetview from December 2021 when it was literally coming apart.



The last time I was there, the old battleaxe had been replaced with this new, temporary masterpiece, in the Series C text now used for temporary signage on this project. No exit number tab, pointless divider line, two arrows for one exit. MUTCD? What's that? 

[Henry]

Crossposted at https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=11045.msg2738221#msg2738221

This guy had been kicking around the i-285-GA 400 construction site for the last several months. It's made of the modified top half of this sign and the modified bottom half of this one. Below is my photo from a few weeks ago, but here's a Streetview from December 2021 when it was literally coming apart.



The last time I was there, the old battleaxe had been replaced with this new, temporary masterpiece, in the Series C text now used for temporary signage on this project. No exit number tab, pointless divider line, two arrows for one exit. MUTCD? What's that? 

There's nothing like some nostalgia to bring back what used to be prevalent in the area. AFAIK, all the old Series D signs inside the Perimeter have been replaced, right?

[Tom958]

There's nothing like some nostalgia to bring back what used to be prevalent in the area. AFAIK, all the old Series D signs inside the Perimeter have been replaced, right?

No, the ones on I-20 are still there. And it's Series C.

[US 89]

There's nothing like some nostalgia to bring back what used to be prevalent in the area. AFAIK, all the old Series D signs inside the Perimeter have been replaced, right?

No, the ones on I-20 are still there. And it's Series C.

Plenty of old style Georgia signage still alive and kicking on I-85 too, both down by the airport and northeast of the 75 split. There is also some on 400.

[Tomahawkin]

Im hoping some of the permanent overhead sign bridges get installed between now and Labor day? i loathe seeing people cutting across 3-4 lanes in this area because they cant see those signs, especially with all the truck traffic. I see a new VMS that is ready to be installed at The N. Springs Station at 400 overpass, but its my opinion, that 60 percent of people dont pay attention to the Overhead VMS Signs unless there is a serious accident in the area???

[architect77]

Im hoping some of the permanent overhead sign bridges get installed between now and Labor day? i loathe seeing people cutting across 3-4 lanes in this area because they cant see those signs, especially with all the truck traffic. I see a new VMS that is ready to be installed at The N. Springs Station at 400 overpass, but its my opinion, that 60 percent of people dont pay attention to the Overhead VMS Signs unless there is a serious accident in the area???

\

I think most people read all of them just for the travel time estimates. You find out if your trip is going to be 10-15 minutes or 45 minutes to the next specific location.

Does it seem plausible that maybe all of the overhead gantries are installed slightly leaning down on one side for water to shed along the structure to one side?

Because I have a hard time identifying any that are horizontal to the ground. It could be intentional since that's the commonlity between all of them, leaning a few degrees down usually toward the center divider.

The espress lanes on I-285 could require 200-300 raised signs. I hope it's not a plethora of steel gantries supported on both sides. They cost $60K each, twice as much as a cantilevered support.

[Tom958]

I hereby declare myself pleasantly amazed with GDOT. Sometime since my last visit to 285-400, crews removed the no-longer-needed sign for the Peachtree Dunwoody Road exit... AND scooted the battleaxe mega-BGS over by a lane so that it correctly indicates lane five rather than lane four as EXIT ONLY for Roswell Road. They also removed one of the arrows from the EXIT ONLY panel for 400, which I'm not sure is an improvement- - it's lane five, not lane six, that leads to 400 south. There must've been quite a bit of discussion about it.

My reflex is to say that it would've been nice if this had been done promptly, but maybe it was. I don't frequent this part of town-- I was there today for a doctor's appointment. After all, it wouldn't have been possible to scoot that BGS over until the Peachtree Dunwoody sign was removed. So, I offer a cautious tentative attaboy to GDOT and the 285-400 project team.

As stated in the post I quoted below, the earlier configuration would almost certainly have been correct once the dreaded reduction of the mainline to three lanes happens, which I thought was supposed to be in June. I suspected that GDOT had decided to erect and live with incorrect and misleading lane assignment signage until then. Maybe the big switch has been delayed, or maybe the operational effects of the erroneous signage had become intolerable enough to compel them to mitigate them. We'll never know, of course. Presumably, when the big switch happens, they'll move the sign back to its previous location.

On Saturday I drove 285-400 for the first time since the new westbound 285 to southbound 400 ramp had been opened.  Here's the revised mainline signage, taken from the Perimeter Center Parkway bridge. As you can see, the signage indicates that three of the six lanes are dropped at the exits for 400 and Roswell Road. My intention when heading west on 285 was to exit at Roswell Road and double back east on 285, so I moved from lane five into lane four as the signage indicates. After the 400 exit, I saw that there was still a lane to my right which was headed to Roswell Road, and the lane I was in stayed on the 285 mainline. Thanks, GDOT. I realized what was going on in time, but how many others won't?

The sign will be correct when the 285 mainline is narrowed to three lanes, which is now supposedly planned for June. We'll see, I guess.

[Tom958]

Also, the auxiliary lane on eastbound 285 between the Ashford Dunwoody onramp and the Chamblee Dunwoody offramp is now closed. The luxurious mile-long merge we've enjoyed since the seventies is now a short, shoulderless taper. Surprise!

The same thing has now been done at the ramp from Chamblee-Dunwoody to westbound 285. I first noticed it because there's a merge arrow sign prominently displayed in the gore, which unfortunately was not done at the Ashford-Dunwoody onramp. This closure will enable the westbound offramps to Ashford Dunwoody and GA 400-Peachtree Dunwoody to be completed, as will the closure referenced above on the eastbound side will do for the eastbound onramps.

[VetteDriver16]

With the rate of Sprawl, Atlanta needs to emulate the new super beltway that the Houston area has. I know cats from Temple (west), Rome (Northwest), Braselton (NE) and Perry (Far South) who commute to Atlanta on a daily basis. A super beltway would need to serve these cities. This is a super pipedream and will never happen before 2050

A new, rural alignment for i-75  West of the metro would be helpful to remove the Florida-bound traffic from mixing with local traffic. It could be built relatively cheaply along the Alabama border and rejoining existing I-75 South of the metro.

A super beltway though by definition wouldn't help the towns you mention as it wouldn't get them closer to Atlanta. Its circumference would be so large that only out-of-staters bypassing the whole metro area would benefit. That would be nice though.

I do think that another East-West highway is needed to supplement I-285, but there would be opposition as you get closer to the mountains. GA-20 would be a nice candidate, but people are already opposed to widening it for more throughput of traffic.

A new I-75 bypass though would remove 40,000 or more vehicles a day from Atlanta's local traffic.

It will be interesting to see how many trucks pay to use the 285 top end Express Lanes if they are allowed to use them.

I've advocated an I-75 bypass from roughly Cartersville to Dallas to Newnan then meeting up with I-75 around Warner Robins. 

[Tomahawkin]

Not a bad idea, but this is a pipedream considering how slow GDOT is on ideas to alleviate traffic from going through the Atlanta area. Especially Summer traffic en route to and from Florida...

[Tom958]

A new I-75 bypass though would remove 40,000 or more vehicles a day from Atlanta's local traffic.

No, it wouldn't. Per http://www.dot.ga.gov/DriveSmart/Data, 73,100 vehicles per day use I-75 where the Northern Arc would've crossed it, between GA 20 and US 411 and stay below 70,000 all the way to Dalton. There's no way that over half of the vehicles entering a metropolis of 5 million people just buzz right through and out the other side on I-75. Maybe twenty years ago, the ARC estimated that 11,000 vpd passed through metro Atlanta on I-75, and I seriously doubt that's doubled since then, let alone quadrupled as you contend.

I've advocated an I-75 bypass from roughly Cartersville to Dallas to Newnan then meeting up with I-75 around Warner Robins.

Yeah, that one occurred to me, too. IMO, the perfect northern end would've been at that bend just north of where I-75 crosses Lake Allatoona, then have it pass inboard of Dallas, Villa Rica, and Newnan. Going past Griffin to I-75 appeals to me more than beelining from Newnan to Warner Robins, but that's just me.

It's occurred to me that a conceptual mistake was made in envisioning the post-285 freeway ring as a single entity. In particular, once it was judged infeasible to build a northern arc south of Lake Allatoona, that basically doubled the length of the thing by pushing it out an equivalent distance on every side. That is, we got stuck with trying to build a 200-mile road because we couldn't get it together to build a 100-mile road when it was feasible. If we'd planned a 100-mile second beltway and started building it in the vicinity of Lake Allatoona, it might've actually worked to some degree.

[Tomahawkin]

Im baffled as to why there isnt any outer partial bypass of Atlanta being considered by GDOT? Adding continued toll lanes isnt going to do it and with the port of Savannah adding more commercial traffic, the commerce and summer traffic is going to get worse throughout the state

[Plutonic Panda]

Yea they're going to have to consider either new freeways or mass transit around Atlanta. The growth doesn't seem to be slowing anytime soon.

[architect77]

A new I-75 bypass though would remove 40,000 or more vehicles a day from Atlanta's local traffic.

No, it wouldn't. Per http://www.dot.ga.gov/DriveSmart/Data, 73,100 vehicles per day use I-75 where the Northern Arc would've crossed it, between GA 20 and US 411 and stay below 70,000 all the way to Dalton. There's no way that over half of the vehicles entering a metropolis of 5 million people just buzz right through and out the other side on I-75. Maybe twenty years ago, the ARC estimated that 11,000 vpd passed through metro Atlanta on I-75, and I seriously doubt that's doubled since then, let alone quadrupled as you contend.

I've advocated an I-75 bypass from roughly Cartersville to Dallas to Newnan then meeting up with I-75 around Warner Robins.

Yeah, that one occurred to me, too. IMO, the perfect northern end would've been at that bend just north of where I-75 crosses Lake Allatoona, then have it pass inboard of Dallas, Villa Rica, and Newnan. Going past Griffin to I-75 appeals to me more than beelining from Newnan to Warner Robins, but that's just me.

It's occurred to me that a conceptual mistake was made in envisioning the post-285 freeway ring as a single entity. In particular, once it was judged infeasible to build a northern arc south of Lake Allatoona, that basically doubled the length of the thing by pushing it out an equivalent distance on every side. That is, we got stuck with trying to build a 200-mile road because we couldn't get it together to build a 100-mile road when it was feasible. If we'd planned a 100-mile second beltway and started building it in the vicinity of Lake Allatoona, it might've actually worked to some degree.

I don't know how old the ARC estimate and report are, but major interstates likes I-95, I-85 and I-75 average about 30,000-40,000 vehicles per day even on rural stretches. I-75 is a main route for the Midwest snowbirds to Florida, and freight/Amazon/stuff transport has exploded since smartphones came to be.

Anyway the specific counts don't change my belief that diverting through state traffic away from Atlanta is a good idea.

For those wondering why new bypasses/interstates are not being built, it's just not part of the state's history to do such. The interstate layout is more or less the same as it was when first built in the 1960s. Lanes were added but not much expansion to the footprint.

[Mileage Mike]

Im baffled as to why there isnt any outer partial bypass of Atlanta being considered by GDOT? Adding continued toll lanes isnt going to do it and with the port of Savannah adding more commercial traffic, the commerce and summer traffic is going to get worse throughout the state

NIMBY's in the Northern suburbs. Every politician is terrified to rock the boat so nothing gets done. It's pretty comical that they're spending $1 billion to rebuild the 400/285 interchange that will have such little effect on traffic. No new rail for Atlanta, no new highways. Traffic nightmare for the foreseeable future. People still keep moving there in high numbers so it doesn't seem to matter for now.

[Tomahawkin]

Co-Sign! That last post was perfectly put! That interchange improvement is a band aid on a Rotten bullet wound. Drove through that area today and the surface streets are a cluster #### in that area especially Roswell road. It baffles me that they did nothing to address the 285 Roswell road interchange. It needs to be gutted!!!

[Rothman]

Co-sign?  If you do, don't you go down with the ship, too?

[Tomahawkin]

Yeah! I will. I wish G-DOT would Co-Sign with our suggestions! Especially our suggestions about some kind of North-South bypass of Atlanta Especially for Truck and Summer traffic en route to and from Florida...