Hypothetical New States

[papaT10932]

The U.S. hasn't seen the creation of any new states post-modern roadways. Yet, every so often, the thoughts of creating new states makes the news. Long Island constantly threatens to break away from New York. The state of Jefferson (northern California/Southwestern Oregon) has been in talks since the 1940's. As per their annexation treaty, Texas, if it ever chooses, has the right to separate into 5 states.  

From a DOT perspective, what would have to happen if these successions ever occured? In other words, hypothetically, what would the transition from old state to new state look like?

[rawmustard]

From a DOT perspective, what would have to happen if these successions ever occured? In other words, hypothetically, would would the transition from old state to new state look like?

I presume that DOTs would be re-formed just as the rest of the bureaucracies would have to be. I would think that any plans from the old DOT would transfer to the new DOT, and that the successor DOTs can do with those plans as they wish.

[Brandon]

Don't know how well this works in the General Highway Talk forum.  It might be better under the Fictional one IMHO.

[papaT10932]

Don't know how well this works in the General Highway Talk forum.  It might be better under the Fictional one IMHO.

I'm sorry, I really wasn't sure in which forum to post this. Theoretically, the roads I'm talking about already exist... I'll leave it up to the moderator to decide.

[Scott5114]

Don't forget about the State of Superior, which would consist of what is now the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

[TheStranger]

The State of Jefferson (southern Oregon/far northern California) would be another hypothetical state to keep in mind...

[rawmustard]

Don't forget about the State of Superior, which would consist of what is now the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

A lot of that is usually tongue-in-cheek. Although the distance from Lansing causes some dissatisfaction among Yoopers in terms of perceived lack of voice compared to the southern parts of the state, there's never been a serious secession movement.

[Alps]

If North Jersey seceded from South Jersey, the south would have a crisis... more miles of roads on the state and county levels, much smaller tax base.

[yanksfan6129]

Don't forget about the State of Superior, which would consist of what is now the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.

A lot of that is usually tongue-in-cheek. Although the distance from Lansing causes some dissatisfaction among Yoopers in terms of perceived lack of voice compared to the southern parts of the state, there's never been a serious secession movement.

How much representation do the Yoopers deserve? After all, the upper peninsula has a population of about 300,000 out of 10,000,000 total in Michigan. Obviously, they shouldn't be ignored, but the fact is in the current American political system, they don't warrant much attention...their interests shouldn't offset those of lower Michigan.

[mgk920]

Interesting in that the USA is now in the midst of the longest period in its history without the admission of a new state (most recent - Hawaii on 1959-08-21).

The easiest hypotheticals (besides Puerto Rico) that I can think of offhand are if disaster would ever strike in Canada regarding the 'Quebec Issue'.

Mike

[papaT10932]

I think, maybe not in the next decade or so, but absolutely in my lifetime, California will split into at least two states. California is just too populated and too diverse to properly govern itself, and sooner than later, their financial woes will demand some kind of split. Who knows, maybe we'll see a SoCalDOT and a NoCalDOT some day.

[mightyace]

^^^

That would also balance out the fact that California, not counting the upcoming 2010 census, has over 20% of the electoral votes needed to become president.  Of course, CA could also do away with the winner-take-all system.  But, that's any thread on its own.

Instead of two "CAs," I'm waiting for California to attempt to secede from the union.  On its own, CA would be one of the top ten economies in the world.

[mgk920]

Last I saw, California has a little over 10% of the EVs.

In fact, in 2004, recall that John Kerry won California's EVs, yet GWB won the election.

The big self-advantage for dividing California into two or more states is the added power that that would give to them in the USSenate.

Mike

[3467]

Western Illinois declared itself the state of Forgottonia over 20 years ago based on lack of Roads!

[mightyace]

Last I saw, California has a little over 10% of the EVs.

In fact, in 2004, recall that John Kerry won California's EVs, yet GWB won the election.

The big self-advantage for dividing California into two or more states is the added power that that would give to them in the USSenate.

Mike

Yes, it's over 10% of the overall EVs, but as you only need 270 to win, 55 is over 20% of that.

And, your right, 2004 showed it's possible, but if it's still harder than if the candidate wins it.

[bugo]

State of Sequoyah

[TheStranger]

Western Illinois declared itself the state of Forgottonia over 20 years ago based on lack of Roads!

I bet you Forgottonia would make I-24 to St. Louis a reality...right?

[Brandon]

Western Illinois declared itself the state of Forgottonia over 20 years ago based on lack of Roads!

I bet you Forgottonia would make I-24 to St. Louis a reality...right?

Nope.  I-24 would never reach Forgottonia.  I-72, on the other hand, goes to Forgottonia.

[TheStranger]

Western Illinois declared itself the state of Forgottonia over 20 years ago based on lack of Roads!

I bet you Forgottonia would make I-24 to St. Louis a reality...right?

Nope.  I-24 would never reach Forgottonia.  I-72, on the other hand, goes to Forgottonia.

Ah, huge difference there.  So US 67 freeway north of Alton becomes Forgottonia's future backbone?

[Revive 755]

Even if southern Illinois broke off from the rest of the state and formed the state of Egypt - seems to be a common name for the 16 county region in the Google News Archive briefs - I doubt I-24 would go any further.  There was a lot of opposition to Freeway 410 from farmers, which would still have to be overcome.  The only changes I think would come about would be new state highway shields and maybe changes to the speed limits.

[english si]

Surely mile markers would change, and thus exit numbers?

If Superior split from MI, I'd expect a push for another interstate than I-75. If Long Island became a state, then it would push for some renumbering to give it a 2di (probably bringing I-80 across Manhattan on I-95, taking I-695, I-295 and I-495 to Riverhead, though extending I-87 southwards is another possibility)

[mightyace]

I've often thought that NYC area (at least the NY part) should be it's own state apart from the rest of New York.

The state of Gotham (for lack of a better name  ) would consist of New York City, Long Island and an indeterminate stretch of the lower Hudson River.   Tappan Zee Bridge?  I-84 Bridge?

[Revive 755]

Surely mile markers would change, and thus exit numbers?

Mostly in Illinois, yes.  But for the hypothetical state of Egypt, only I-64 might see a change in mile markers and exit numbers (I'm assuming here only the southern 16 counties break away.  If more of the state decides to part ways with Chicagoland, a different name would probably be used). Since in Illinois state and US route mile markers reset at the county lines, there wouldn't be any changes other mile marker changes.

[SP Cook]

IMHO, the only plausable posbilities, in order of plausability are:

- Northern and Southern California, split probably along the straight line formed by the borders between Monterey, Kings, Tulare, and Inyo; and San Luis Obispo, Kern, and San Bernadino counties.  Which would result in two states that would be about the size of Pennsylvania and New York state, respectivly.

- New York City, perhaps with its metro area, and the rest of New York State.

- A "DC solution", which IMHO would require a 50 state approved Constitutional admendment, with a Columbia consisting of northern Virginia, suburban Maryland and DC as a state or state like entity, with a rest of Maryland and a rest of Virginia.  (There is no way that DC will ever be granted representation in the Congress as is.)

- Parts of Canada, probably following either a Quebec withdrawal from Canada, or, more likely, IMHO, following a western Canada withdrawal and assession to the US.

Other than state line signage, and in the Canadian case a quick redesignation of various roads as "interstates" and "US routes", it would be generations before roads were affected in a way noticable to ordinary people.

[Scott5114]

I'm sure a new state would be rather quick to swap out its state highway marker, probably to a new symbol that reflects its identity better.

If Western Canada seceded. I would imagine the US would be reluctant to annex it for fear of war with what remained of Canada. Would Western Canada outside of Alberta want to be in the U.S. anyway?