AARoads Forum

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

New rules to ensure post quality. See this thread for details.

Author Topic: Proposed US 412 Upgrade  (Read 48607 times)

Bobby5280

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3150
  • Location: Lawton, OK
  • Last Login: Today at 12:22:25 AM
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #525 on: April 21, 2022, 01:29:35 PM »

Never underestimate the potential idiocy of someone on an ATV with wire cutters in his possession.
Logged

MikieTimT

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1103
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Wedington Woods, Arkansas
  • Last Login: June 28, 2022, 02:01:46 PM
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #526 on: April 21, 2022, 01:47:20 PM »

Never underestimate the potential idiocy of someone on an ATV with wire cutters in his possession.

... and then utters the phrase, "Here, hold my beer."
Logged

stevashe

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 342
  • Age: 26
  • Location: Seattle, WA
  • Last Login: Today at 01:10:16 AM
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #527 on: April 22, 2022, 11:59:20 AM »

I'm assuming a cable barrier is better at actually corralling an errant vehicle than a plain barbed-wire fence is, though, right?

Thing is, the extra distance (30 vs 17 feet) means there is a much lower likelihood of needing to stop an errant vehicle in the first place! Not to mention since there is more than just pavement between the lanes, that unpaved area will serve to slow the speed of any vehicle crossing over. Plus, in the case of the frontage road, there are slower speeds already in the first place.
Logged

kphoger

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 22611
  • My 2 Achilles' heels: sarcasm & snark

  • Location: Wichita, KS
  • Last Login: June 28, 2022, 09:07:19 PM
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #528 on: April 22, 2022, 12:11:59 PM »

Plus, in the case of the frontage road, there are slower speeds already in the first place.

...which only really matters if the errant vehicle isn't the one on the Interstate.
Logged
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. Dick
If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

stevashe

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 342
  • Age: 26
  • Location: Seattle, WA
  • Last Login: Today at 01:10:16 AM
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #529 on: April 22, 2022, 12:26:16 PM »

Plus, in the case of the frontage road, there are slower speeds already in the first place.

...which only really matters if the errant vehicle isn't the one on the Interstate.

Well I assumed we were mainly talking about a potential collision between cars since otherwise the frontage road being there doesn't make much of a difference, in which case there is always a vehicle not on the interstate involved.
Logged

kphoger

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 22611
  • My 2 Achilles' heels: sarcasm & snark

  • Location: Wichita, KS
  • Last Login: June 28, 2022, 09:07:19 PM
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #530 on: April 22, 2022, 12:29:05 PM »



Plus, in the case of the frontage road, there are slower speeds already in the first place.

...which only really matters if the errant vehicle isn't the one on the Interstate.

Well I assumed we were mainly talking about a potential collision between cars since otherwise the frontage road being there doesn't make much of a difference, in which case there is always a vehicle not on the interstate involved.

I assumed you brought up the lower speed on the frontage road because an errant vehicle is less likely to due damage—or likely to go as far to begin with—if it's slow-moving.  I also had in mind, however, a vehicle going 75 mph down the Interstate and going off the road in the other direction—into the frontage road.
Logged
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. Dick
If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

kphoger

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 22611
  • My 2 Achilles' heels: sarcasm & snark

  • Location: Wichita, KS
  • Last Login: June 28, 2022, 09:07:19 PM
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #531 on: April 22, 2022, 12:30:28 PM »

My point in all this is that I really don't see much of a problem with either of them.  When I first saw the cable barriers on I-44, I grimaced.  But that phase passed.
Logged
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. Dick
If you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

Scott5114

  • *
  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 15197
  • Nit picker of unprecedented pedantry

  • Age: 32
  • Location: Norman, OK
  • Last Login: Today at 05:52:43 AM
    • Denexa 100% Plastic Playing Cards
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #532 on: April 22, 2022, 06:05:18 PM »

I don't have much of a problem with cable barrier itself. I do have a problem with the 17' median width, especially since it's paved (not that unpaved medians do much more to slow down cars, but it's not like the paving helps matters).

Going back to the subject of the thread, which is the Cimarron, not the H.E. Bailey...I just measured a section of the median near the Morrison exit and got 15'. Interstate standard is 50' with no barrier, or 10' with a barrier. The question is, does FHWA consider a cable barrier sufficient to make that compliant with standard, or must OTA upgrade it to a Jersey barrier, as they did on the Turner and Will Rogers?
Logged

Bobby5280

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 3150
  • Location: Lawton, OK
  • Last Login: Today at 12:22:25 AM
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #533 on: April 22, 2022, 08:54:45 PM »

I don't think cable barriers existed back in the mid 1990's when the concrete Jersey barriers were added to the Turner and Will Rogers turnpikes (and H.E. Bailey between Lawton and OKC).

IIRC, current Interstate designs require a certain amount of inner left shoulder next to the left travel lane. Something like 4' to 6' in width. I think I-44 South of Lawton complies with that. The grassy median is slightly larger than a 12' highway lane. All the OTA did was just replace the grassy median strip with concrete. Still, it kind of makes the turnpike look like a 5-lane street with a cable barrier down the middle of what looks like could be a center turn lane. The Cimarron Turnpike is getting the same treatment. It's just getting built out at a slower pace.
Logged

Scott5114

  • *
  • *
  • Online Online

  • Posts: 15197
  • Nit picker of unprecedented pedantry

  • Age: 32
  • Location: Norman, OK
  • Last Login: Today at 05:52:43 AM
    • Denexa 100% Plastic Playing Cards
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #534 on: April 22, 2022, 09:04:26 PM »

Assuming the cable barrier is 1 foot wide, that'd still leave 7' on either side for inner shoulders. Which is probably why they paved it.
Logged

MikieTimT

  • *
  • Offline Offline

  • Posts: 1103
  • Age: 49
  • Location: Wedington Woods, Arkansas
  • Last Login: June 28, 2022, 02:01:46 PM
Re: Proposed US 412 Upgrade
« Reply #535 on: April 24, 2022, 10:05:29 PM »

It almost seems like a couple of 5 lane "Arkansas Freeways" could be a cable barrier and some grade separation/access road building away from getting promoted to Interstate status with this criteria!
Logged

 


Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.