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[Bobby5280]

Never underestimate the potential idiocy of someone on an ATV with wire cutters in his possession.

[MikieTimT]

Never underestimate the potential idiocy of someone on an ATV with wire cutters in his possession.

... and then utters the phrase, "Here, hold my beer."

[stevashe]

I'm assuming a cable barrier is better at actually corralling an errant vehicle than a plain barbed-wire fence is, though, right?

Thing is, the extra distance (30 vs 17 feet) means there is a much lower likelihood of needing to stop an errant vehicle in the first place! Not to mention since there is more than just pavement between the lanes, that unpaved area will serve to slow the speed of any vehicle crossing over. Plus, in the case of the frontage road, there are slower speeds already in the first place.

[kphoger]

Plus, in the case of the frontage road, there are slower speeds already in the first place.

...which only really matters if the errant vehicle isn't the one on the Interstate.

[stevashe]

Plus, in the case of the frontage road, there are slower speeds already in the first place.

...which only really matters if the errant vehicle isn't the one on the Interstate.

Well I assumed we were mainly talking about a potential collision between cars since otherwise the frontage road being there doesn't make much of a difference, in which case there is always a vehicle not on the interstate involved.

[kphoger]

Plus, in the case of the frontage road, there are slower speeds already in the first place.

...which only really matters if the errant vehicle isn't the one on the Interstate.

Well I assumed we were mainly talking about a potential collision between cars since otherwise the frontage road being there doesn't make much of a difference, in which case there is always a vehicle not on the interstate involved.

I assumed you brought up the lower speed on the frontage road because an errant vehicle is less likely to due damage—or likely to go as far to begin with—if it's slow-moving.  I also had in mind, however, a vehicle going 75 mph down the Interstate and going off the road in the other direction—into the frontage road.

[kphoger]

My point in all this is that I really don't see much of a problem with either of them.  When I first saw the cable barriers on I-44, I grimaced.  But that phase passed.

[Scott5114]

I don't have much of a problem with cable barrier itself. I do have a problem with the 17' median width, especially since it's paved (not that unpaved medians do much more to slow down cars, but it's not like the paving helps matters).

Going back to the subject of the thread, which is the Cimarron, not the H.E. Bailey...I just measured a section of the median near the Morrison exit and got 15'. Interstate standard is 50' with no barrier, or 10' with a barrier. The question is, does FHWA consider a cable barrier sufficient to make that compliant with standard, or must OTA upgrade it to a Jersey barrier, as they did on the Turner and Will Rogers?

[Bobby5280]

I don't think cable barriers existed back in the mid 1990's when the concrete Jersey barriers were added to the Turner and Will Rogers turnpikes (and H.E. Bailey between Lawton and OKC).

IIRC, current Interstate designs require a certain amount of inner left shoulder next to the left travel lane. Something like 4' to 6' in width. I think I-44 South of Lawton complies with that. The grassy median is slightly larger than a 12' highway lane. All the OTA did was just replace the grassy median strip with concrete. Still, it kind of makes the turnpike look like a 5-lane street with a cable barrier down the middle of what looks like could be a center turn lane. The Cimarron Turnpike is getting the same treatment. It's just getting built out at a slower pace.

[Scott5114]

Assuming the cable barrier is 1 foot wide, that'd still leave 7' on either side for inner shoulders. Which is probably why they paved it.

[MikieTimT]

It almost seems like a couple of 5 lane "Arkansas Freeways" could be a cable barrier and some grade separation/access road building away from getting promoted to Interstate status with this criteria!