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Proposed US 412 Upgrade

Started by US71, May 22, 2021, 02:35:11 PM

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-- US 175 --

Quote"Our interstate system is the lifeblood of Oklahoma's economy and provides the network for companies to bring materials into our critical industries, for businesses to locate in areas convenient for consumers, and for commuters to get to work and school safely and reliably,"  Inhofe said.

Too bad he doesn't think so highly about any potentially-interstated part of US 69.  Sounds like he has his priorities.  :-/ :-|


MikieTimT

Quote from: -- US 175 -- on November 08, 2021, 11:42:25 AM
Quote"Our interstate system is the lifeblood of Oklahoma's economy and provides the network for companies to bring materials into our critical industries, for businesses to locate in areas convenient for consumers, and for commuters to get to work and school safely and reliably,"  Inhofe said.

Too bad he doesn't think so highly about any potentially-interstated part of US 69.  Sounds like he has his priorities.  :-/ :-|

Maybe the largest revenue generator in Stringtown is one of his contributors.

SkyPesos

Quote from: -- US 175 -- on November 08, 2021, 11:42:25 AM
Quote"Our interstate system is the lifeblood of Oklahoma's economy and provides the network for companies to bring materials into our critical industries, for businesses to locate in areas convenient for consumers, and for commuters to get to work and school safely and reliably,"  Inhofe said.

Too bad he doesn't think so highly about any potentially-interstated part of US 69.  Sounds like he has his priorities.  :-/ :-|
He probably wants Arkansas to take the St Louis-Dallas traffic away from Oklahoma first. Currently, I-44/US 69/US 75 via OK and US 67/I-30 via AR are about the same driving time between the two cities, but the extension of I-57 along I-67 south of Poplar Bluff will definitely sway in the favor of US 67/I-30.

Scott5114

Inhofe is a Tulsa homer and this is supposedly going to be his last term in office. Upgrading US-412 lets him end his career by giving something shiny to Tulsa, so that's why that's why he gives a shit about that and not US-69.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Plutonic Panda

I wish they'd remove tolls on this stretch to create a toll free option for Tulsa. Way too many tolls Tulsa has to deal with. Ideally every toll road would be removed. Start with 412.

edwaleni

Quote from: MikieTimT on November 08, 2021, 11:37:11 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 07, 2021, 11:37:33 PM
Quote from: Rover_0 on November 07, 2021, 10:05:34 PM
From an email, the latest thing I've heard about the US-412 upgrade is that it's in the Environment and Public Works Committee of the U.S. Senate since May. Has anyone else heard anything new recently?

Does (or could) the (massive) infrastructure bill change any of that?

Inhofe offered an amendment, which was passed, adding a copy of the US-412 upgrade language into the infrastructure bill when it was still in the Senate. Since that bill just passed the House, the only way it doesn't happen now is if Joe Biden says so, and the chances of that are virtually nil. (Inhofe then later voted against the bill that contained his amendment. Ah, politics.)

The standalone bill you've been tracking is now redundant and therefore probably won't make it out of committee, since there's no reason for further action on it.

Apparently, this trucking company is pretty confident in all of this moving forward since they just bought land on the next exit to the south of where this currently terminates south of Lowell on I-49.

Trucking company buys I-49 land in Springdale for possible expansion

Thats a good spot. Easy access to both 49 and the future bypass in each direction.

MikieTimT

Quote from: edwaleni on November 08, 2021, 04:33:34 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on November 08, 2021, 11:37:11 AM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 07, 2021, 11:37:33 PM
Quote from: Rover_0 on November 07, 2021, 10:05:34 PM
From an email, the latest thing I've heard about the US-412 upgrade is that it's in the Environment and Public Works Committee of the U.S. Senate since May. Has anyone else heard anything new recently?

Does (or could) the (massive) infrastructure bill change any of that?

Inhofe offered an amendment, which was passed, adding a copy of the US-412 upgrade language into the infrastructure bill when it was still in the Senate. Since that bill just passed the House, the only way it doesn't happen now is if Joe Biden says so, and the chances of that are virtually nil. (Inhofe then later voted against the bill that contained his amendment. Ah, politics.)

The standalone bill you've been tracking is now redundant and therefore probably won't make it out of committee, since there's no reason for further action on it.

Apparently, this trucking company is pretty confident in all of this moving forward since they just bought land on the next exit to the south of where this currently terminates south of Lowell on I-49.

Trucking company buys I-49 land in Springdale for possible expansion

Thats a good spot. Easy access to both 49 and the future bypass in each direction.

That exit and the Lowell exit to the north of AR-612 will fill up with businesses in or serving the trucking industry shockingly quick, I suspect.

hurricanehink

Do you think the 412 interstate would tie into AK 612 to reach 49? 

mvak36

Quote from: hurricanehink on November 10, 2021, 11:02:12 AM
Do you think the 412 interstate would tie into AK 612 to reach 49?

I think it would. 412 is too built up closer to I-49 so the interstate will use the bypass.
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MikieTimT

Quote from: mvak36 on November 10, 2021, 11:34:39 AM
Quote from: hurricanehink on November 10, 2021, 11:02:12 AM
Do you think the 412 interstate would tie into AK 612 to reach 49?

I think it would. 412 is too built up closer to I-49 so the interstate will use the bypass.

Undoubtedly.  AR-612 is already limited access.  What remains to be seen is how it will be handled from XNA westward in AR and OK to the Cherokee Turnpike.  Siloam Springs and West Siloam Springs will have to be bypassed, which should have happened 10 years ago instead of the stupid 6 laning of US-412 through Siloam Springs.

Scott5114

Quote from: hurricanehink on November 10, 2021, 11:02:12 AM
Do you think the 412 interstate would tie into AK 612 to reach 49? 

The interstate's west end is proposed to be at Perry, Oklahoma. There are no plans to extend it to Alaska.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

MikieTimT

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 10, 2021, 02:02:14 PM
Quote from: hurricanehink on November 10, 2021, 11:02:12 AM
Do you think the 412 interstate would tie into AK 612 to reach 49? 

The interstate's west end is proposed to be at Perry, Oklahoma. There are no plans to extend it to Alaska.

US-412's western end is Springer, NM at I-25.  I'd bank on none of us living long enough to see I-50 ever get past I-35.

edwaleni

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 08, 2021, 03:26:41 PM
Inhofe is a Tulsa homer and this is supposedly going to be his last term in office. Upgrading US-412 lets him end his career by giving something shiny to Tulsa, so that's why that's why he gives a shit about that and not US-69.

"Inhofe Memorial Highway".  I can see it in green with the white font already.

MikieTimT

Quote from: edwaleni on November 10, 2021, 05:07:35 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 08, 2021, 03:26:41 PM
Inhofe is a Tulsa homer and this is supposedly going to be his last term in office. Upgrading US-412 lets him end his career by giving something shiny to Tulsa, so that's why that's why he gives a shit about that and not US-69.

"Inhofe Memorial Highway".  I can see it in green with the white font already.

It'd be a little more cumbersome on the Arkansas portion, what with 2 sponsors here.  I really don't care, as long as it gets built, preferably with the turnpike portion transitioning to free.  Doubt that Oklahoma lets go of that revenue stream, though.  Wonder how long it will take to pay off the Cherokee Turnpike, or has it been already and revenue redirected?

Scott5114

Quote from: edwaleni on November 10, 2021, 05:07:35 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 08, 2021, 03:26:41 PM
Inhofe is a Tulsa homer and this is supposedly going to be his last term in office. Upgrading US-412 lets him end his career by giving something shiny to Tulsa, so that's why that's why he gives a shit about that and not US-69.

"Inhofe Memorial Highway".  I can see it in green with the white font already.

Assuming the Legislature hasn't already named a bunch of disjointed sections of it after random state troopers like they tend to do.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Bobby5280

QuoteI'd bank on none of us living long enough to see I-50 ever get past I-35.

Chances are slim to none the Interstate designation over US-412 will go East of I-49 either. That is all the more reason to not waste a major designation such as "I-50" on such a short length Interstate, particularly one in close proximity to I-40.

I think it would be really funny if the resulting Interstate ended up being un-signed or even called I-412.
:D

Scott5114

Quote from: Bobby5280 on November 10, 2021, 07:07:23 PM
QuoteI'd bank on none of us living long enough to see I-50 ever get past I-35.

Chances are slim to none the Interstate designation over US-412 will go East of I-49 either. That is all the more reason to not waste a major designation such as "I-50" on such a short length Interstate, particularly one in close proximity to I-40.

I think it would be really funny if the resulting Interstate ended up being un-signed or even called I-412.
:D

Not I-437? :P
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Plutonic Panda

Quote from: Bobby5280 on November 10, 2021, 07:07:23 PM
QuoteI'd bank on none of us living long enough to see I-50 ever get past I-35.

Chances are slim to none the Interstate designation over US-412 will go East of I-49 either. That is all the more reason to not waste a major designation such as "I-50" on such a short length Interstate, particularly one in close proximity to I-40.

I think it would be really funny if the resulting Interstate ended up being un-signed or even called I-412.
:D
So where else would I-50 go then? This route seems perfectly fit for I-50.

Alex

Quote from: Bobby5280 on November 10, 2021, 07:07:23 PM
Chances are slim to none the Interstate designation over US-412 will go East of I-49 either. That is all the more reason to not waste a major designation such as "I-50" on such a short length Interstate, particularly one in close proximity to I-40.
:D

No a waste is nonexistent I-50 with no corridor whatsoever to be designated as one.  So I'd take I-50 along US 412 vs. it being reserved for some fictional corridor.

Bobby5280

#294
Not all digits from 1 to 99 need to be covered in the Interstate highway system. Interstate routes whose numbers end in a five or zero need to be major routes. Springdale to a spot on I-35 kind of out in the middle of nowhere is NOT a major route. I-50 is an even more serious designation than I-40. If anything, I-40 should have been called I-50 if it was actually necessary to have an I-50 route in the Interstate system. But it isn't necessary. What's next, re-name the WA-16 freeway from Tacoma to Bremerton "Interstate 1?"

I've seen plenty of gripes in the past about I-30 and how short it is for having a major designation. This "I-50" nonsense would be even shorter and have both ends in places of far less consequence. At least I-30 dovetails into I-20 in one of the most gigantic metros in the US at its West end and dovetails into I-40 at its East end in a metro of at least some significant size. The future Interstate along US-412 has NONE of those major route functions. So it shouldn't be carrying a major route designation.

Plutonic Panda

In the grand scheme of things the likelihood of a multi(3+) corridor is slim to none along US-412 but that can change fast. We get serious proposals like I-27 E and W or I-11 south of I-10. So all it takes is one lawmaker to propose an extension of an I-50 from I-35 to I-25 and then it becomes non fictional?

I'll ask again, and if the seriousness of the designation doesn't matter because I-40 should be I-50 is real then the case is even better, where else would I-50 go?

Alex

Quote from: Bobby5280 on November 11, 2021, 12:03:36 AM
Not all digits from 1 to 99 need to be covered in the Interstate highway system. Interstate routes whose numbers end in a five or zero need to be major routes. Springdale to a spot on I-35 kind of out in the middle of nowhere is NOT a major route. I-50 is an even more serious designation than I-40. If anything, I-40 should have been called I-50 if it was actually necessary to have an I-50 route in the Interstate system. But it isn't necessary. What's next, re-name the WA-16 freeway from Tacoma to Bremerton "Interstate 1?"

I've seen plenty of gripes in the past about I-30 and how short it is for having a major designation. This "I-50" nonsense would be even shorter and have both ends in places of far less consequence. At least I-30 dovetails into I-20 in one of the most gigantic metros in the US at its West end and dovetails into I-40 at its East end in a metro of at least some significant size. The future Interstate along US-412 has NONE of those major route functions. So it shouldn't be carrying a major route designation.

Again I-50 at zero miles in length is worse than I-30. So only in a fictional world is I-50 more serious of a designation than I-40.
Barring a pipedream major expansion of the Interstate system, I-50 and I-60 will likely never be used outside of a Turnpike upgrade in OK or Parkway upgrade in KY.

I-35

#297
So, if this I-46, I-48, etc happens, does Perry become a control city for I-35 in between Wichita and OKC?   Might be in the running with Limon for most desolate control city.  And what would be the WB control city?  Enid, which will not be on the interstate?  Or Perry, which is not at the intersection either, but at least closer to the terminus with I-35?


Plutonic Panda

To be completely honest I really could care less about the designation of the road as I care more about the physical aspect. The improvements that come along with making the road a better designed freeway as part of being an interstate is what excites me. But I don't mind saying it I'm going to absolutely lose my shit if the powers that be suggest is to be I 50 and I absolutely will support it to do my part to see it become a reality so I can watch everyone here go crazy lol

bwana39

Quote from: Plutonic Panda on November 11, 2021, 12:46:53 PM
To be completely honest I really could care less about the designation of the road as I care more about the physical aspect. The improvements that come along with making the road a better designed freeway as part of being an interstate is what excites me. But I don't mind saying it I'm going to absolutely lose my shit if the powers that be suggest is to be I 50 and I absolutely will support it to do my part to see it become a reality so I can watch everyone here go crazy lol

I so completely agree with you.  I am not a great fan of give it an Interstate number.
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BTW: I-50 was purposely skipped because  US-50 / IH-50 could hardly miss one another.  There is no plan to EVER have an IH-50. The even numbered US Highways went from smaller  numbers in the north and larger in the south.  The Interstate numbers were opposite.

Let's build what we need as economically as possible.



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