Proposed US 412 Upgrade

[MikieTimT]

Nothing interstate grade should have to slow down to 45 to keep semis from flipping over.

I-90 in Montana would like to have a word with you.

I-55 easily beats I-90:

One 20 mph section at the west end of the PSB in St. Louis.   Northbound through the same interchange is only 25 mph.

There's also the 25 mph mainline loop on I-55 in Memphis.  Southbound at that same location is only 25 mph.

I avoid driving through Memphis on the way to I-22 as a result of this very travesty in addition to the crazy drivers on I-240/I-55.  To say nothing of the perpetual state of road construction through there.

[swake]

Nothing interstate grade should have to slow down to 45 to keep semis from flipping over.

I-90 in Montana would like to have a word with you.

Terrain sort of dictates that speed there on I-90.  If you look at Google Maps Street View on I-44 there, I find that the terrain between both ends of the bend is slightly less difficult to traverse than much of the topology of Illinois.

That odd curve has nothing to do with topography. Before the Creek Turnpike extension built a new I-44/US-412 interchange a mile to the east that curve was part of the old I-44/US-412/OK-66 interchange. The through lanes came from the northeast on I-44 instead of from the east on US-412 and ODOT has never fixed it.

[I-55]

Nothing interstate grade should have to slow down to 45 to keep semis from flipping over.

I-90 in Montana would like to have a word with you.

Terrain sort of dictates that speed there on I-90.  If you look at Google Maps Street View on I-44 there, I find that the terrain between both ends of the bend is slightly less difficult to traverse than much of the topology of Illinois.

That odd curve has nothing to do with topography. Before the Creek Turnpike extension built a new I-44/US-412 interchange a mile to the east that curve was part of the old I-44/US-412/OK-66 interchange. The through lanes came from the northeast on I-44 instead of from the east on US-412 and ODOT has never fixed it.

And you can still see the old lanes on satellite on the northeast side of the interchange. Feels like the abandoned PA turnpike without hills.

[Scott5114]

Nothing interstate grade should have to slow down to 45 to keep semis from flipping over.

I-90 in Montana would like to have a word with you.

Terrain sort of dictates that speed there on I-90.  If you look at Google Maps Street View on I-44 there, I find that the terrain between both ends of the bend is slightly less difficult to traverse than much of the topology of Illinois.

That odd curve has nothing to do with topography. Before the Creek Turnpike extension built a new I-44/US-412 interchange a mile to the east that curve was part of the old I-44/US-412/OK-66 interchange. The through lanes came from the northeast on I-44 instead of from the east on US-412 and ODOT has never fixed it.

And you can still see the old lanes on satellite on the northeast side of the interchange. Feels like the abandoned PA turnpike without hills.

[Alps]

Nothing interstate grade should have to slow down to 45 to keep semis from flipping over.

I-90 in Montana would like to have a word with you.

Terrain sort of dictates that speed there on I-90.  If you look at Google Maps Street View on I-44 there, I find that the terrain between both ends of the bend is slightly less difficult to traverse than much of the topology of Illinois.

That odd curve has nothing to do with topography. Before the Creek Turnpike extension built a new I-44/US-412 interchange a mile to the east that curve was part of the old I-44/US-412/OK-66 interchange. The through lanes came from the northeast on I-44 instead of from the east on US-412 and ODOT has never fixed it.

And you can still see the old lanes on satellite on the northeast side of the interchange. Feels like the abandoned PA turnpike without hills.

was this from a certain monday road meet

[Scott5114]

was this from a certain monday road meet

It may be from a certain Monday road meet.

[stevashe]

Nothing interstate grade should have to slow down to 45 to keep semis from flipping over.

I-90 in Montana would like to have a word with you.

Terrain sort of dictates that speed there on I-90.  If you look at Google Maps Street View on I-44 there, I find that the terrain between both ends of the bend is slightly less difficult to traverse than much of the topology of Illinois.

You are absolutely correct, but since your original wording made it sound like no interstate anywhere should ever have 45 mph curves and you gave no exceptions, I thought I'd have a bit of fun poking a hole in that statement 

[DJStephens]

Contacted the city administrator by email, and he was kind enough to email me the PDF of the study that was done in '04.  There were 3 different bypass routes considered, but apparently the comments by locals swayed them towards the 6-laning they did instead.

https://misc.transport.road.narkive.com/C5tPsmXj/no-us-412-siloam-springs-bypass-to-be-built

Here is a picture of the bypass options from 2004.  I didn't know how to upload the full PDF to the Gallery as I couldn't find this study anywhere online, so just saved a snip of the map.  Corridor B was the most inexpensive alternative.

Sounds very similar to events in Muskogee, OK.  Where they have tabled/backburned a potential high grade bypass that should have at least the ROW preserved for.   

[debaterthatchases]

New BGS w/ Springdale, AR as the control city for US-412, as opposed to the usual Siloam Springs, from ODOT. Taken today

[Scott5114]

I think that's the first hint at the US-412 upgrade plan to appear in the field. Nice find! This sets up a sort of weird situation where Springdale will be a control city on I-? but not on I-49 (which uses Fayetteville, or Fort Smith, depending on who's doing the telling).

(Also that sign is really good for ODOT. I'm not sure whether Division 8 actually has some semblance of standards now or Tulsa has just gotten lucky with contractors lately...)

[debaterthatchases]

This was on the recently resurfaced ramp from SB US-75 to EB I-244. The NB 75 section of the IDL is currently being resurfaced, so I wonder if the NB to EB signs will reflect the upgrade plans, or if this sign was an exception.

(Also District 8 has done exceptionally well on their BGS replacements lately, but their reassurance shields could use a little work)

Edit: Did some sneaking around on the NB US-75 to EB I-244/IS-412 BGS's, and from the one I found, the only control city on there was Joplin.  The I-244/ E 1st St. BGS hasn't been replaced yet, so that may be one last place to look for an updated control city on the IDL. Hoping some BGS's east of Tulsa get replaced soon so we can confirm if this was a one-off or not.

Also to answer your question, the logical thing to do would have ArDOT update the I-49 control to Springdale, as that's where the new interstate would intersect.

[Scott5114]

Also to answer your question, the logical thing to do would have ArDOT update the I-49 control to Springdale, as that's where the new interstate would intersect.

I'm not entirely convinced that would be the best idea–of the three cities in the northwest Arkansas metro, Springdale is probably the least well-known. Bentonville has Walmart, and Fayetteville has the university–the only real thing of note Springdale will have is the freeway junction.

[US71]

FWIW: the Springdale Bypass will cross I-49 at the Lowell/Springdale/Elm Springs border.  I'm guessing any possible Interstate would include at least part of that bypass?

[MikieTimT]

Also to answer your question, the logical thing to do would have ArDOT update the I-49 control to Springdale, as that's where the new interstate would intersect.

I'm not entirely convinced that would be the best idea–of the three cities in the northwest Arkansas metro, Springdale is probably the least well-known. Bentonville has Walmart, and Fayetteville has the university–the only real thing of note Springdale will have is the freeway junction.

There's a meat company called Tyson Foods that's a fairly significant player (Fortune 100) who has their headquarters in Springdale.  It's not a nothing city, and is likely to be the biggest city in NWA within the decade given its growth trajectory over the last 21 years, business friendly city government, and has the largest school district in the state.  It's also home to the area's only professional sports team, the Arkansas Naturals (minor league baseball).

[The Ghostbuster]

Are they any closer to a preliminary proposal on what Interstate designation will eventually be designated along the corridor?

[Scott5114]

Are they any closer to a preliminary proposal on what Interstate designation will eventually be designated along the corridor?

They haven't even finished studying whether or not they're going to build it yet.

Ask again in 2027.

[Avalanchez71]

I'll go with the no build alternative.

[Plutonic Panda]

I'll go with the no build alternative.

Not sure what's more shocking, the fact you *claim to* support the no build alternative or the fact someone will surely respond to your obvious trolling. Haha spoiler alert, I'm not really surprised at any of those things. Of course here I am responding to you but I'm sure someone else would if I didn't.

[Scott5114]

I'll go with the no build alternative.

You're not going to go with anything, because you have no say in it. Your opinion can stay in Tennessee where it belongs.

Oklahoma wants this road, not least because it will serve a major industrial facility east of Tulsa that the state government is trying to incentivize manufacturers to invest in.

[sprjus4]

I'll go with the no build alternative.

Not sure what's more shocking, the fact you *claim to* support the no build alternative or the fact someone will surely respond to your obvious trolling. Haha spoiler alert, I'm not really surprised at any of those things. Of course here I am responding to you but I'm sure someone else would if I didn't.

I'll go with the no build alternative.

You're not going to go with anything, because you have no say in it. Your opinion can stay in Tennessee where it belongs.

Oklahoma wants this road, not least because it will serve a major industrial facility east of Tulsa that the state government is trying to incentivize manufacturers to invest in.

It's a troll. Just ignore the comments altogether and don't feed into him.

[plain]

Usually I'm against unnecessary interstate designations and/or routings (NC,TX) but this one definitely has merit. A Tulsa-NWA connection would be a fine connection.

[rte66man]

I'll go with the no build alternative.

You're not going to go with anything, because you have no say in it. Your opinion can stay in Tennessee where it belongs.

Oklahoma wants this road, not least because it will serve a major industrial facility east of Tulsa that the state government is trying to incentivize manufacturers to invest in.

The whole history of the Tulsa to Springdale road is fascinating. From being OK33 (I well remember the "I drove 33 and I survived" t-shirts) to it's current incarnation as US412 to future I-??.  I'll see if I can find some of the articles from the mid 1970s that might explain the great desire of people in NE OK to have a decent connection to NW AR.

[swake]

Of course this makes sense. It connects two metro areas that are just 100 miles apart but in two different states.

[US71]

I'll go with the no build alternative.

You're not going to go with anything, because you have no say in it. Your opinion can stay in Tennessee where it belongs.

Oklahoma wants this road, not least because it will serve a major industrial facility east of Tulsa that the state government is trying to incentivize manufacturers to invest in.

The whole history of the Tulsa to Springdale road is fascinating. From being OK33 (I well remember the "I drove 33 and I survived" t-shirts) to it's current incarnation as US412 to future I-??.  I'll see if I can find some of the articles from the mid 1970s that might explain the great desire of people in NE OK to have a decent connection to NW AR.

Also AR 68 before 412 .

[The Ghostbuster]

Maybe someone should come out with "I drove 412 and survived" t-shirts. However, I'm sure the irony would be lost on most people.