Will Chicago become 4th populous US City?

[Rothman]

Yeah, I don't know about Chicago having worse blizzards than Boston. When I think of a blizzard, I think firstly of a nor'easter, the type of winter storm that hits Boston quite frequently, and secondly of a ground blizzard, the type more common in the Great Plains and upper Midwest with high winds and extremely low visibility. (And when you Google "types of blizzard", Dairy Queen's different Blizzard options come up.  )

Chicago is also not squarely in lake effect snow territory because it's west of Lake Michigan, while the heaviest lake effect snow tends to fall downwind (east/southeast) of the lakes, as noted. The point being, it's a toss-up at best, with total snowfall slightly favoring Chicago while average temperatures slightly favor Boston.

No.

Boston's average annual snowfall is 48" per season, whereas Chicago's is 36", a difference of a foot.

No need to postulate off the top of your head when data is available.

Not sure why you're saying no when that proves the point that Chicago gets less. I wasn't doing anything off the top of my head; Flint1979 already mentioned the approximate difference about 10 posts ago.

Because I can.

[webny99]

I did, however, revise my wording, since I could see how "favor" could be misinterpreted.

[kphoger]

I would say it is much more ignorant for someone to claim they single-handedly know what is better for these thousands of people than they themselves do.

You do exactly that in literally every discussion you engage in on this forum.

[JayhawkCO]

I would say it is much more ignorant for someone to claim they single-handedly know what is better for these thousands of people than they themselves do.

You do exactly that in literally every discussion you engage in on this forum.

[abefroman329]

I remember in March 2012 it hit like 80 degrees in the Great Lakes. Then the next winter was one of those deep freezes where the temp would stay below zero for long periods of time. This last winter wasn't bad at all, it snowed here yesterday but the snow has already melted. The back and forth temps though are annoying, like one day it'll be 70 and the next day it'll be in the 40's.

When the winter is long and/or unbearably cold, it takes longer than normal for Lake Michigan to thaw, which means the wind off the lake keeps summer temperatures on the cooler side.

And yeah, the eastern shore of Lake Michigan definitely gets more lake effect snow. My wife grew up in Holland and it was the first time I'd seen snow that was waist-high.

[abefroman329]

Show me someone building with structural brick or plaster on any scale, oh wait, you can't.

Bandwagon fallacy.

More space is marginal utility positive, if that were not true price would not go up with size.

Causal fallacy.

People are making this choice, so clearly it must be better than any alternatives they have.

Causal fallacy.

More importantly, they would rather have these large houses built with standard methods than something smaller built to old quality standards.

Causal fallacy.

I would say it is much more ignorant for someone to claim they single-handedly know what is better for these thousands of people than they themselves do.

Appeal to hypocrisy, causal fallacy, appeal to pity.

[formulanone]

Also, the crying over "homes are all cookie-cutter"...sure, go hire an architect, then act as a foreman, and contract everything. Must be great to have that much time and money and having another place to live while you sink a minimum of two years into the process.

And while you're at it, go build your own vehicle from scratch, too? I'll even ignore the requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle standards, but leave any lingering questions with your insurance company and however your state wants to register/title your jalopy.

[JayhawkCO]

Also, the crying over "homes are all cookie-cutter"...sure, go hire an architect, then act as a foreman, and contract everything. Must be great to have that much time and money and having another place to live while you sink a minimum of two years into the process.

And while you're at it, go build your own vehicle from scratch, too? I'll even ignore the requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle standards, but leave any lingering questions with your insurance company and however your state wants to register/title your jalopy.

It's not so much that the homes themselves are cookie cutter, it's that the neighborhoods are. Every single neighborhood looks the same and feels the same with the same big box stores and chain restaurants right nearby. It certainly isn't specific to anything in Houston.

[abefroman329]

Also, the crying over "homes are all cookie-cutter"...sure, go hire an architect, then act as a foreman, and contract everything. Must be great to have that much time and money and having another place to live while you sink a minimum of two years into the process.

I know a number of people from HS who have done just that, and none are insanely wealthy.

And while you're at it, go build your own vehicle from scratch, too? I'll even ignore the requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle standards, but leave any lingering questions with your insurance company and however your state wants to register/title your jalopy.

False equivalence is false.

[webny99]

Show me someone building with structural brick or plaster on any scale, oh wait, you can't.

Bandwagon fallacy.

More space is marginal utility positive, if that were not true price would not go up with size.

Causal fallacy.

People are making this choice, so clearly it must be better than any alternatives they have.

Causal fallacy.

More importantly, they would rather have these large houses built with standard methods than something smaller built to old quality standards.

Causal fallacy.

I would say it is much more ignorant for someone to claim they single-handedly know what is better for these thousands of people than they themselves do.

Appeal to hypocrisy, causal fallacy, appeal to pity.

At least HighwayStar attempts to explain his positions. This is just throwing out terms that sound cool with no substance or explanation whatsoever,  and doesn't even come close to being a legitimate counter-argument. Maybe my first mistake was thinking it was supposed to be taken seriously...

[abefroman329]

Show me someone building with structural brick or plaster on any scale, oh wait, you can't.

Bandwagon fallacy.

More space is marginal utility positive, if that were not true price would not go up with size.

Causal fallacy.

People are making this choice, so clearly it must be better than any alternatives they have.

Causal fallacy.

More importantly, they would rather have these large houses built with standard methods than something smaller built to old quality standards.

Causal fallacy.

I would say it is much more ignorant for someone to claim they single-handedly know what is better for these thousands of people than they themselves do.

Appeal to hypocrisy, causal fallacy, appeal to pity.

At least HighwayStar attempts to explain his positions. This is just throwing out terms that sound cool with no substance or explanation whatsoever,  and doesn't even come close to being a legitimate counter-argument. Maybe my first mistake was thinking it was supposed to be taken seriously...

It wasn't intended to be taken seriously.

[formulanone]

Also, the crying over "homes are all cookie-cutter"...sure, go hire an architect, then act as a foreman, and contract everything. Must be great to have that much time and money and having another place to live while you sink a minimum of two years into the process.

I know a number of people from HS who have done just that, and none are insanely wealthy.

Example? There are kit homes and that's not crazy expensive, but when I hear folks whine about having something unique, it's not easy and can be time-consuming. Were people complaining that homes looked "the same" hundreds of years ago? Probably not.

I don't think most people care about what their home or neighborhood looks like. Much like people don't care too much about how their exact fit or style of their entire wardrobe, they don't grow their own food, or fashion their own furniture. They're happy just seeing something that fits their vague sense of aesthetics for 90% of what they do because it also fits their ideas of function, cost, and space. Honestly, with the exception of someone's specific interests, most people don't give too much thought to everything, and that's okay.

False equivalence is false.

I was going for reductio ad absurdum, but thanks for playing. Going to planish your own fenders to exacting tolerances, or will you busy perfecting the heads in the machine shop before taking it out to the dynometer?

It's not so much that the homes themselves are cookie cutter, it's that the neighborhoods are. Every single neighborhood looks the same and feels the same with the same big box stores and chain restaurants right nearby. It certainly isn't specific to anything in Houston.

How would groups of people endeavor to design their own neighborhood, then? Bigger cities do offer that, though with varying amounts of compromise. Give the public enough input on one specific project, and it's going to be a platypus of a design, and nobody's going to be happy other than who can profit from it.

I confess that planning and design is way out of my league, but you'd need neighborhoods which cater and prioritize to different mobility needs and aesthetic desires. And to cities (or equivalent) really care any further the equation of Subdevelopment + Utilities + Road(s) +/- optional Retail and/or School = Neighborhood because it's simple?

[abefroman329]

Example? There are kit homes and that's not crazy expensive, but when I hear folks whine about having something unique, it's not easy and can be time-consuming. Were people complaining that homes looked "the same" hundreds of years ago? Probably not.

Probably not, but they weren't flimsy temples to the owner's delusion of grandeur either.  And they also had options besides single-family home.

I don't think most people care about what their home or neighborhood looks like. Much like people don't care too much about how their exact fit or style of clothing, rarely grow their own food, or fashion their own furniture. They're happy just seeing something that fits their vague sense of aesthetics for 90% of what they do because it also fits their ideas of function.

Once again, people are confusing "I wouldn't want to live in a McMansion" with "no one should ever live in a McMansion, ever."  I manage to sit through carfuckers shitting on cities without losing my mind.

How would groups of people endeavor to design their own neighborhood, then? Bigger cities do offer that, though with varying amounts of compromise. Give the public enough input on one specific project, and it's going to be a platypus of a design, and nobody's going to be happy other than who can profit from it.

Right, but there isn't any compromise involved in building the subdivisions I don't want to live in.  Buy a fuckton of farmland, plow it over, offer people their choice of 3 or 4 styles of houses, fully build out the subdivision, flee before someone rinses and repeats with the next plot of land and housing prices plummet.

[JayhawkCO]

It's not so much that the homes themselves are cookie cutter, it's that the neighborhoods are. Every single neighborhood looks the same and feels the same with the same big box stores and chain restaurants right nearby. It certainly isn't specific to anything in Houston.

How would groups of people endeavor to design their own neighborhood, then? Bigger cities do offer that, though with varying amounts of compromise. Give the public enough input on one specific project, and it's going to be a platypus of a design, and nobody's going to be happy other than who can profit from it.

I confess that planning and design is way out of my league, but you'd need neighborhoods which cater and prioritize to different mobility needs and aesthetic desires. And to cities (or equivalent) really care any further the equation of Subdevelopment + Utilities + Road(s) +/- optional Retail and/or School = Neighborhood because it's simple?

I don't have a problem per se with the fact that there exist cookie cutter suburbs. Some people like them. Others on this site (and I have no reason to think that you're one of them) think EVERYONE should like them. I don't care for them personally. That's the only point I was trying to make. Out here, I could live in Highlands Ranch or even very SE Aurora where that's what you find. I choose not to.

I also don't like chain restaurants. To me, the quality : price ratio is terrible. That said, many, many people in this forum sing the praises of such establishments. I choose to live in a location where those aren't the only options for me, thankfully.

[ZLoth]

I don't think most people care about what their home or neighborhood looks like.

Uhhhh.... excuse me? While no neighborhood is perfect, how your neighbors take care of their homes as well as how you interact with the neighbors affects your quality of life, especially your metal health. Mind you, it's a subjective decision, but there have been neighborhoods where you don't that secure feeling.

[kphoger]

I don't think most people care about what their home or neighborhood looks like.

Uhhhh.... excuse me? While no neighborhood is perfect, how your neighbors take care of their homes as well as how you interact with the neighbors affects your quality of life, especially your metal health. Mind you, it's a subjective decision, but there have been neighborhoods where you don't that secure feeling.

None of that means people actually care.

[Scott5114]

While it would be unlikely to have an other Hurricane Harvey in current lifetimes, Houston is bound to get slammed by more hurricanes and their respective massive flooding potential.

On the plus side, Houston (and most of Texas) don't have to worry about crippling blizzards that Chicago has to deal with every winter; snowfall is maybe once per decade in that part of Texas, and accumulations might even be more scarce.  And most tropical weather is limited to TDs, TSs, and maybe a Cat. 1.  A major hurricane (Cat 3 or higher) has been fairly rare for the Texas coast.  Harvey has been considered a once-in-a-millennium even for that magnitude of a storm.

I mean, Dallas rarely has blizzards and never has hurricanes, so...

[formulanone]

I don't think most people care about what their home or neighborhood looks like.

Uhhhh.... excuse me? While no neighborhood is perfect, how your neighbors take care of their homes as well as how you interact with the neighbors affects your quality of life, especially your metal health. Mind you, it's a subjective decision, but there have been neighborhoods where you don't that secure feeling.

None of that means people actually care.

I meant from an aesthetic point of view; do they really care if the homes are neo-craftsman-style or ersatz-chic bungalows with just-right parapets or those with discrete cornices?*

* Talking out my ass warning.

[kphoger]

I mean, Dallas rarely has blizzards and never has hurricanes, so...

OTOH, the blizzards that do happen completely cripple Dallas.

[SectorZ]

I mean, Dallas rarely has blizzards and never has hurricanes, so...

OTOH, the blizzards that do happen completely cripple Dallas.

It doesn't even take a blizzard to cripple them.

[kkt]

 

[TheHighwayMan3561]

I can't speak for Chicago, but for MSP, truly crippling snow events are very rare. Maybe twice a winter most places close up early ahead of a snow event and are back to normal the next morning.

[Scott5114]

I mean, Dallas rarely has blizzards and never has hurricanes, so...

OTOH, the blizzards that do happen completely cripple Dallas.

That's true. Perhaps, then, the ideal is something like Oklahoma City, which gets snow about once or twice a year at most, which is enough to justify having the infrastructure to handle it (plows, salt trucks, winterized power grid, etc.) but not often enough that there's a cultural expectation you have to keep carrying on your day-to-day routine when it snows. 

[abefroman329]

* Talking out my ass warning.

At the end of the day, that's all any of us are doing.

[kphoger]

I can't speak for Chicago, but for MSP, truly crippling snow events are very rare. Maybe twice a winter most places close up early ahead of a snow event and are back to normal the next morning.

The morning after Chicago received ten inches of snow one time, I was driven to O'Hare on mostly-clear roads, and my plane left on time.

That's got to tell you something.