Traffic signal

[LilianaUwU]

Found some more red arrows in Canada, this time in Gatineau. This marks the 3rd city that I know of and all of them are in Quebec.

Most of them are right turn reds in this case with at least one left turn example.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/he5j15LAWBaov4VV9
https://maps.app.goo.gl/4QFMsMQ4tpf6DB6YA
https://maps.app.goo.gl/jznHy5SKPp8Er6ZQA
https://maps.app.goo.gl/JdcdHKFNaG2cU57L8
https://maps.app.goo.gl/aqDDxNYvg2QbsUoa9

I only know of two isolated examples of left-pointing red arrows in Québec City, in each direction of Chemin Sainte-Foy at Avenue Saint-Sacrement (westbound and eastbound).

[plain]

Found some more red arrows in Canada, this time in Gatineau. This marks the 3rd city that I know of and all of them are in Quebec.

Most of them are right turn reds in this case with at least one left turn example.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/he5j15LAWBaov4VV9
https://maps.app.goo.gl/4QFMsMQ4tpf6DB6YA
https://maps.app.goo.gl/jznHy5SKPp8Er6ZQA
https://maps.app.goo.gl/JdcdHKFNaG2cU57L8
https://maps.app.goo.gl/aqDDxNYvg2QbsUoa9

I only know of two isolated examples of left-pointing red arrows in Québec City, in each direction of Chemin Sainte-Foy at Avenue Saint-Sacrement (westbound and eastbound).

Indeed. You were the one who told me about Quebec City lol. Before that I thought they only existed in Montreal.

Nice finds!

Indeed, it does seem that Quebec is the only province that installs red turn arrows.

I really don't understand the aversion to red arrows in Canada. I've heard it's related to luminosity; all-arrow displays have less lit area, so they are a bit less bright. Admittedly, I've noticed this myself in person in the US: arrow displays are definitely less bright. But then, is it really a problem? I don't know -- we made do with 8-inch displays for decades (and BC, until recently, still installed 8-inch displays very regularly), so I doubt the brightness provided by a 12-inch orb should be the minimum luminosity.

I'm not sure why that is either. It seems like places like Alberta and Ontario especially would benefit from red arrows.

I could understand that red orbs would be more visible, but now that most signals use some variation of LEDs it shouldn't make that much of a difference.

[SignBridge]

I've never had any trouble seeing a 12-inch red arrow even before the LED era.

[jakeroot]

I've never had any trouble seeing a 12-inch red arrow even before the LED era.

Well, neither have I. But I think it's safe to say that a 12-inch orb is going to be brighter than an arrow within that 12-inch lens. The difference may be enough for most Canadian traffic agencies to prefer red orbs even for dedicated left turn signals.

Of course, you and I both agree that the actual solution is to use supplemental turn signals, rather than focusing on making that one left turn signal as bright as possible (see my next reply)....

I'm not sure why that is either. It seems like places like Alberta and Ontario especially would benefit from red arrows.

I might argue that British Columbia would be a great place to use red arrows too. The average protected left in BC uses three dedicated signals (overhead, far left, near-side median -- example), so I don't think there's any reason to worry about how bright each signal is when there's already so many of them. Switching away from red orbs would at least allow for way fewer ".... TURN SIGNAL" signs.

[SignBridge]

New York State DOT stubbornly used to use mostly red ball (with the required sign) instead of red arrows until the current Manual mandated the use of red arrows and NYS had to change them. But they saved a lot of money on all those signs they don't need anymore. LOL

[MASTERNC]

New York State DOT stubbornly used to use mostly red ball (with the required sign) instead of red arrows until the current Manual mandated the use of red arrows and NYS had to change them. But they saved a lot of money on all those signs they don't need anymore. LOL

PennDOT still uses those signs unnecessarily with red arrows

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

New York State DOT stubbornly used to use mostly red ball (with the required sign) instead of red arrows until the current Manual mandated the use of red arrows and NYS had to change them. But they saved a lot of money on all those signs they don't need anymore. LOL

At least NYS used louvers in the past. In PA , not all red ball signals have louvers and it just looks sloppy. PA also uses unnecessary Right Turn Signal signs with doghouses...

[Hobart]

New York State DOT stubbornly used to use mostly red ball (with the required sign) instead of red arrows until the current Manual mandated the use of red arrows and NYS had to change them. But they saved a lot of money on all those signs they don't need anymore. LOL

At least NYS used louvers in the past. In PA , not all red ball signals have louvers and it just looks sloppy. PA also uses unnecessary Right Turn Signal signs with doghouses...

At least Pennsylvania uses the signs. There's at least one assembly I found in Oklahoma that doesn't mount any sort of sign. Maybe there was some supply chain issue? Most other assemblies in this town use a 3M head with a red ball for left turn signal (without a sign).
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.6894246,-101.4664633,3a,41.1y,228.62h,97.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJQ40tlBzl9h-TjdLmTvO8g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Illinois uses the signs that say "Left turn on green arrow only" still, and they've used red arrow signals for a while in most places. Maybe it relates to the fact that you can make a right turn on red on a red arrow in the state of Illinois only if the sign is absent?

[steviep24]

New York State DOT stubbornly used to use mostly red ball (with the required sign) instead of red arrows until the current Manual mandated the use of red arrows and NYS had to change them. But they saved a lot of money on all those signs they don't need anymore. LOL

This signal on Ridgeway Av. at NY 390 still has red balls for the protected left turns.
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1905217,-77.6857946,3a,30y,232.19h,99.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sY5R0Pl_72N9R4d9s0kQ-iQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&authuser=0

[PurdueBill]

New York State DOT stubbornly used to use mostly red ball (with the required sign) instead of red arrows until the current Manual mandated the use of red arrows and NYS had to change them. But they saved a lot of money on all those signs they don't need anymore. LOL

This signal on Ridgeway Av. at NY 390 still has red balls for the protected left turns.
https://www.google.com/maps/@43.1905217,-77.6857946,3a,30y,232.19h,99.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sY5R0Pl_72N9R4d9s0kQ-iQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?hl=en&authuser=0

These signals for a double left in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio are too new to not be red arrows, but they are still not.  And no LEFT TURN SIGNAL signs either so you get red and green balls adjacent every cycle.

[SignBridge]

Required to be red-arrows. Manual Section 4D.19.03-A on Page 470. Clear violation of the MUTCD standard. Surprising on such new looking signals.

[kphoger]

These signals for a double left in Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio are too new to not be red arrows, but they are still not.  And no LEFT TURN SIGNAL signs either so you get red and green balls adjacent every cycle.

Required to be red-arrows. Manual Section 4D.19.03-A on Page 470. Clear violation of the MUTCD standard. Surprising on such new looking signals.

They aren't just new looking.  GSV history indicates they were installed shortly after July 2014.

[traffic light guy]

New York State DOT stubbornly used to use mostly red ball (with the required sign) instead of red arrows until the current Manual mandated the use of red arrows and NYS had to change them. But they saved a lot of money on all those signs they don't need anymore. LOL

How recent were they using the red ball as opposed to the red arrows?

[SignBridge]

New York was commonly using the red ball with the sign until after the 2009 Manual came out. So maybe ten years ago they started gradually changing them over to red arrows. There are few if any red-ball left-turn signals left on Long Island nowadays.

I was really happy to see NYSDOT take that requirement seriously. I hated their red-ball lights with the stupid louvers to limit visibility of that head. The louvers would always get out of alignment and obstruct the view of the light. It was a very crude approach and I'm glad they're  mostly gone.

[JoePCool14]

There are still numerous left turn signals in Dubuque, Iowa that use red balls with the left turn signal signage. Plenty of them along the US-20 corridor.

[roadman65]

Here's an oddity in Northern CA.


Usually Caltrans has only one near side signal head side mounted. I'm guessing this is to comply with the MUTCD with one head per lane and being the curve is here the mast arm in the front ( which is now compatible) would not work well in the location of the post intersection mast arm ( that BTW was the typical California installation before the latest.) as seen in the distance.

[SignBridge]

Seems like an excessive number of heads facing this approach. I count six altogether.

[Amtrakprod]

Here's an interesting light I stumbled upon: https://youtu.be/NleEmMbvMO4


iPhone

[US71]

Here's an interesting light I stumbled upon: https://youtu.be/NleEmMbvMO4


iPhone

What the duck?

[roadman65]

Seems like an excessive number of heads facing this approach. I count six altogether.

Florida would hang a span wire  diagonally here and just have two ( one third of the amount) signals.

[Scott5114]

At least Pennsylvania uses the signs. There's at least one assembly I found in Oklahoma that doesn't mount any sort of sign. Maybe there was some supply chain issue? Most other assemblies in this town use a 3M head with a red ball for left turn signal (without a sign).
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.6894246,-101.4664633,3a,41.1y,228.62h,97.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJQ40tlBzl9h-TjdLmTvO8g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Is it a "supply chain issue" if the thing in short supply is the DOT giving a shit?

[LilianaUwU]

At least Pennsylvania uses the signs. There's at least one assembly I found in Oklahoma that doesn't mount any sort of sign. Maybe there was some supply chain issue? Most other assemblies in this town use a 3M head with a red ball for left turn signal (without a sign).
https://www.google.com/maps/@36.6894246,-101.4664633,3a,41.1y,228.62h,97.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJQ40tlBzl9h-TjdLmTvO8g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

On a completely unrelated note, why does Google give me the address as 1115 U.S. 412 トラック?

[plain]

Here's an interesting light I stumbled upon: https://youtu.be/NleEmMbvMO4


iPhone

What a ridiculous setup. That bottom arrow on the 4-section is completely unnecessary. It just needs to be a standard left turn signal.

[Dirt Roads]

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.6894246,-101.4664633,3a,41.1y,228.62h,97.16t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sJQ40tlBzl9h-TjdLmTvO8g!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

On a completely unrelated note, why does Google give me the address as 1115 U.S. 412 トラック?

Good question.  My map shows US-412 routed up Main Street, and this location should have an address of "1115 US Route 54".  トラック is Japanese for "truck", so I wonder if the road is also posted as Truck US-412 so that trucks avoid Main Street.  Most of the automatic mapping programs are having issues with how to display bannered routes.  But that shouldn't be the issue here.

[jakeroot]

Seems like an excessive number of heads facing this approach. I count six altogether.

Florida would hang a span wire  diagonally here and just have two ( one third of the amount) signals.

Exactly, lots of states would do very little. California should always be applauded for their efforts to ensure signals are well-spaced and cover every potential point-of-view. This signal certainly does not disappoint.

For the record, I don't believe California has any rules about signal-per-lane. That is a recommendation within the MUTCD, but California has historically had quite a unique set of rules for signal placement and operation. Distinct enough that I doubt they even recognize the MUTCD's recommendation. Not that they really need to, I prefer California's strategy ten-fold.