Transgender Issues

[vdeane]

Someone I know is male to female transgender and will start living full time as a girl in about a month.  While she has had a universally positive response from people at college, she's wondering how the "real world" is going to respond to her.  Since this forum has a better cross-section of people than a college would, I'm wondering how people here would react.  Thoughts?

[agentsteel53]

see that Twin Peaks episode where Cooper's old friend Dennis is now Denise. 

[realjd]

Assuming it isn't blatantly obvious, how will people in the "real world" even know if she doesn't tell them? Worst case they just assume she's a somewhat masculine woman.

[kphoger]

I have an uncle-in-law who had a sex change.  He and his wife divorced, and it has alienated him from his family, especially his children.  I'm talking about adult children who don't want anything to do with him anymore now that he's adopted a woman's name and has even married (and now divorced, I believe) another man.  Some of the extended family keeps up with him, but most either (a) don't know how to react, so just don't talk at all, or (b) have determined not to interact with him.  Bad all around.

[Duke87]

Eh, whatever suits you. I see no issue. Although, being the type who tends to get caught up in technicalities I do have trouble just saying "she's a woman" and not "she has the mind of a woman but was born with the body of a man which she has since altered to be female". Sex change operations are imperfect - there are physical differences between someone who was born a woman and someone who switched to being one, and thus I cannot consider them to be the same thing.

The tough part will be attempting to live a heterosexual or any sort of -sexual lifestyle as a woman. It's relatively easy for tolerant circles of society to accept her for who she is. But even among the most tolerant of circles out there, how many men could see themselves with such a woman? Anyone? Not me, certainly! Your options are probably mostly limited to transgendered people who went in the opposite direction.

[agentsteel53]

if she wants to be a woman, then by my accounting, she's a woman. 

[Alps]

Tell her to stay in the Northeast.

[agentsteel53]

Tell her to stay in the Northeast.

or hang out in one of the cooler parts of the west coast.

[corco]

Best bet is definitely to move away from your hometown and try to start fresh, but it should be all right in a new place as long as she doesn't advertise it. Realistically there will probably be some backlash/intense questioning from people who knew her as a man.  

Personally, I'm cool with it on a platonic level (although I haven't known somebody pre and post gender change- I don't know how I'd react to that), but I would also want to know before engaging in any sort of sexual relationship and it would certainly be a deal-breaking red flag. That said, I'd assume that pheromonally, one would not develop unless I was actually attracted to men, in which case I'd have some serious self-evaluation ahead of me, but since I would have just found out I was gay I doubt I'd be emotionally ready to explore it sexually.

[berberry]

So we should make a cross reference here to the thread about classic tv moments, because we were talking there about 'Soap' and the Jody Dallas storyline.  During season 1, Jody wants so badly to marry his boyfriend that he decides to have a sex change operation.  The show pokes a lot of fun at the concept, and mostly manages to do it with taste, understanding and hilarity.

[agentsteel53]

So we should make a cross reference here to the thread about classic tv moments, because we were talking there about 'Soap' and the Jody Dallas storyline.  During season 1, Jody wants so badly to marry his boyfriend that he decides to have a sex change operation.  The show pokes a lot of fun at the concept, and mostly manages to do it with taste, understanding and hilarity.

not bad for 1977.

[kphoger]

We could all say how we would like it to be in a perfect world.  I'm just saying that the only one I actually have a connection to has become alienated from family and friends.  In fact, it was a huge blow to his parents–first-born child, only son.  Now, yes, he has made friends in that subculture (which is, I suppose, an advantage of living in a large city like MSP), but I don't know how closely those friendships have developed.  As far as becoming involved in a relationship goes, I believe his recent ex is a woman-gone-man.  That really had to be weird, as he had changed his name from David to Dana and then married a woman whose name is now David.

Anyway, your friend will find accepting people (as pointed out, the number of which will vary by location), but I don't know if he'll ever recoup what he'll invariably lose in family and friends.

What a crazy world we live in, huh?  This stuff gets you thinking about some pretty fundamental questions about life.

[vdeane]

This thread certianly has some food for though.  Not what I expected, though I'm not sure what I expected in the first place.  If anyone else has anything to say, feel free to post.

Assuming it isn't blatantly obvious, how will people in the "real world" even know if she doesn't tell them? Worst case they just assume she's a somewhat masculine woman.

She's quite passable, though some people do notice beard shadow (due to finances and location, she can't get facial hair removal done right now and just has to be good with shaving).  She's most worried about people who know her as a man now that she's not out to yet, mainly family (she's out to her parents but not her other relatives) and some people she sees once in a while (think something similar to roadmeets).

[Darkchylde]

Moving helps, but sometimes transitioning close to home is possible. It all depends on whether she can deal with the potential hassles of being stopped on the street or in the stores by old acquaintances asking, "Hey, don't I know you from somewhere? Oh, hey, I know, you're (old male name)! Personally, I moved 2000 miles away to start, though I moved back a few months later and have gotten few to no hassles since.

Makeup does wonders early on for beard shadow. I gave it up after a few years.

Passing is 10% appearance and 90% attitude. If she acts like a woman and shows confidence in doing so, that's how she'll get treated most of the time by neutral/unknown parties.

[bugo]

I have nothing against transgenders or gays (I'm about as gay friendly as it gets) but I would be very angry if I started dating somebody who didn't tell me about their past.  I wouldn't punch the person or anything like that, but I would be very upset and would never speak to that person again.

[vtk]

I would have no problem calling a MTF person "she" or whatever, particularly if she presents a few outward female characteristics. As far as dating, I don't care too much about what equipment someone has – but that's me and I'm sure that attitude isn't common. Actually, I once dated a MTF person before she started to transition. The closet in general was more of an issue than gender, though I thought she made a cute guy.  We broke up for other reasons, and remain friends.  She's transitioning now, and not having too many problems with it.

[6a]

Yeah, I couldn't care less - if they don't make it an issue, neither will I.  If it enables someone to be at peace and live a happier life, who am I to judge?  

Tell her to stay in the Northeast.

There's a long running joke here that there are two Ohios, inside and outside of I-270.  I'll let the Romney vs Santorum vote tell you about that.