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Interstate 49 Texas (5 miles)

Started by Guysdrive780, November 27, 2014, 03:37:39 PM

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Guysdrive780

I'm wondering if anyone has info from Txdot that they will build that segment though Texarkana. There isn't much I'm getting. I think I encountered something about a toll road somewhere BTW
I run the DOT Youtube Channel, Part time Worker for TXDOT, College Student studying Civil Engineering (Traffic Engineering). Please Keep in mind, I do not represent TXDOT and all opinions I say are my own and not TXDOT's


NE2

They won't build it through Texarkana; it's all north of the city limits.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Guysdrive780

Quote from: NE2 on November 27, 2014, 05:19:17 PM
They won't build it through Texarkana; it's all north of the city limits.
I knew that. I didn't mean that
I run the DOT Youtube Channel, Part time Worker for TXDOT, College Student studying Civil Engineering (Traffic Engineering). Please Keep in mind, I do not represent TXDOT and all opinions I say are my own and not TXDOT's

bugo

If it is built as a toll road (which it won't be) US 59-71 will be used to shunpike it. It will get little to no traffic.

US71

Quote from: NE2 on November 27, 2014, 05:19:17 PM
They won't build it through Texarkana; it's all north of the city limits.

For now...until it's annexed.
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

adventurernumber1

I had no knowledge of I-49 actually entering Texas, but now that I look over the Texarkana area again, I guess that might happen, seeing that sharp turn to the left towards the state line north of Texarkana. But like NE2 said, it wouldnt actually be in Texarkana, but a little ways north of it. As for Texarkana city limits, I-49 is passing through the Arkansas part of it. I dont think I got what was mentioned about some possible toll road, but if it were to just be for I-49's short 5 miles in Texas, that would be completely useless.
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Guysdrive780

Quote from: adventurernumber1 on November 28, 2014, 01:16:19 AM
I had no knowledge of I-49 actually entering Texas, but now that I look over the Texarkana area again, I guess that might happen, seeing that sharp turn to the left towards the state line north of Texarkana. But like NE2 said, it wouldn't actually be in Texarkana, but a little ways north of it. As for Texarkana city limits, I-49 is passing through the Arkansas part of it. I dont think I got what was mentioned about some possible toll road, but if it were to just be for I-49's short 5 miles in Texas, that would be completely useless.
I know this. It was wile I was looking though the texas plans. I don't know where I found it. But according to the plan, there was going to be a second loop around Texarkana that is a toll road and that would be one of the exits of I-49
I run the DOT Youtube Channel, Part time Worker for TXDOT, College Student studying Civil Engineering (Traffic Engineering). Please Keep in mind, I do not represent TXDOT and all opinions I say are my own and not TXDOT's

Guysdrive780

I run the DOT Youtube Channel, Part time Worker for TXDOT, College Student studying Civil Engineering (Traffic Engineering). Please Keep in mind, I do not represent TXDOT and all opinions I say are my own and not TXDOT's

Grzrd

Quote from: Guysdrive780 on November 28, 2014, 09:24:13 AM
I found something. I will dig deeper http://www.ktbs.com/story/22374799/texarkana-could-get-toll-road

The OP in this thread mentions how the new terrain section of the I-69 Corridor from the Sulphur River to I-30 (presumably near the TexAmericas Center) was included in a 2011 bill for approval as a toll road. However, that approval was contingent on construction beginning in 2015.  Neighborhood opposition has stalled the environmental process of selecting the new terrain I-69 Corridor; 2015 construction will not happen.

I never read the bill and I am not sure if the Northern Loop from I-30 in Texas to the TX/AR state line was also approved for tolls.  However, the current FEIS for the Northern Loop will have to be redone if the new terrain section of the I-69 Corridor (new location for I-369?) is approved and/or built.

This post from AHTD includes a link for the routing of the 5.36 miles of I-49 through Texas.  Here is a snip from the map:



I assume Exit 44 would be the Northern Loop exit; I cannot imagine Texas tolling either the approximate 2 miles of I-49 from the Northern Loop/ I-49 interchange to US 71/59 at the state line or the entire 5.36 miles of I-49 in Texas.

NE2

Quote from: Grzrd on November 28, 2014, 10:34:58 AM
I cannot imagine Texas tolling either the approximate 2 miles of I-49 from the Northern Loop/ I-49 interchange to US 71/59 at the state line
See also: I-80 Illinois.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

dariusb

I heard that the part of the northern loop from I-49 in Texas to I-30 will be named I-249 and from I-30 southward it will become I-369. Does anyone know if that's true or not?
It's a new day for a new beginning.

Guysdrive780

Quote from: dariusb on November 30, 2014, 11:52:59 PM
I heard that the part of the northern loop from I-49 in Texas to I-30 will be named I-249 and from I-30 southward it will become I-369. Does anyone know if that's true or not?
I heard it might become a toll road
I run the DOT Youtube Channel, Part time Worker for TXDOT, College Student studying Civil Engineering (Traffic Engineering). Please Keep in mind, I do not represent TXDOT and all opinions I say are my own and not TXDOT's

Brandon

Quote from: NE2 on November 28, 2014, 11:06:18 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on November 28, 2014, 10:34:58 AM
I cannot imagine Texas tolling either the approximate 2 miles of I-49 from the Northern Loop/ I-49 interchange to US 71/59 at the state line
See also: I-80 Illinois.

That was a preexisting toll road that I-80 connected to (The Tri-State was built 1958, I-80 was connected in 1966).  This would be a new toll road as a connector between two non-toll segments in another state.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

NE2

Quote from: Brandon on December 01, 2014, 02:15:59 PM
Quote from: NE2 on November 28, 2014, 11:06:18 AM
Quote from: Grzrd on November 28, 2014, 10:34:58 AM
I cannot imagine Texas tolling either the approximate 2 miles of I-49 from the Northern Loop/ I-49 interchange to US 71/59 at the state line
See also: I-80 Illinois.

That was a preexisting toll road that I-80 connected to (The Tri-State was built 1958, I-80 was connected in 1966).  This would be a new toll road as a connector between two non-toll segments in another state.
This would also connect the state line to the toll continuation as the outer Texarkana loop. And it very well could exist before I-49 is built to the north.
pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Grzrd

#14
Quote from: Guysdrive780 on November 28, 2014, 09:24:13 AM
I found something. I will dig deeper http://www.ktbs.com/story/22374799/texarkana-could-get-toll-road
Quote from: Guysdrive780 on December 01, 2014, 08:04:41 AM
Quote from: dariusb on November 30, 2014, 11:52:59 PM
I heard that the part of the northern loop from I-49 in Texas to I-30 will be named I-249 and from I-30 southward it will become I-369. Does anyone know if that's true or not?
I heard it might become a toll road

Judging by this internet post, your information probably relates to the Texas Transportation Commission's June, 2007 authorization of a feasibility study for a Texarkana toll road:

Quote
Local Texas Department of Transportation officials say a feasibility study would be conducted before moving forward with the potential Texarkana-area toll road project. The Texas Transportation Commission recently gave its approval to 80 possible toll roads in Texas. And a corridor around one side of Texarkana was tapped as a candidate project.
[...]
Marcus Sandifer, TxDOT's Atlanta District spokesman, said the loop around one side of Texarkana could get drivers, especially through-traffic, around Texarkana's high traffic areas and back to rural areas. The whole idea is to get the traffic out of the commercialized areas and neighborhoods where there's the heavier traffic. The north part of the route was already determined by the Texas Department of Transportation, the Arkansas Department of Transportation and the Metropolitan Planning Organization, which is made up of both cities, counties and local governments, Sandifer said.
[...]
Sandifer said part of what the feasibility study will consider is whether users would save enough time and avoid enough traffic to use this toll road section. He said what's been approved by the Texas Transportation Commission so far is simply looking at a toll road and studying it. If it's not feasible, it' not going to pay for itself, he said.

I have no idea whether the feasibility study was ever conducted.

Grzrd

Quote from: NE2 on December 01, 2014, 02:21:39 PM
This would also connect the state line to the toll continuation as the outer Texarkana loop. And it very well could exist before I-49 is built to the north.
Quote from: Grzrd on December 01, 2014, 03:04:55 PM
the Texas Transportation Commission's June, 2007 authorization of a feasibility study for a Texarkana toll road

The link to the Texas Transportation Commission's Minute Order does not include the Exhibit A list of 80 proposed toll road projects; however, TxDOT has emailed me a pdf of Exhibit A and it indeed directly references IH 49.  Here is a snip from Exhibit A:



Any thoughts on why US 71 was included?

dariusb

I wonder will this section be built as a toll or will plans change yet again?
It's a new day for a new beginning.

US71

Quote from: dariusb on December 05, 2014, 02:46:27 AM
I wonder will this section be built as a toll or will plans change yet again?
To me, it wouldn't make a lot of sense considering the rest of the road is "free"
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

bwana39

It would save a bunch of miles and as much as we want Texarkana to be a small town, the freeways are as congested as in the cities.

Here was something I wandered into... The minute order for US-71 in Texas. This is still on the books.


Minute Order 100814, 04/28/1992; Des Ltr 03-1992, 09/14/1992
From the Texas/Arkansas S/L north of Texarkana, southward and concurrent with US 59 to IH 30; and then continuing southward on State Line Road to its junction with US 67/US 82, a distance of approximately 8.4 miles; and also on new location from the Texas/Arkansas S/L, northwest of Texarkana, southeastward to the intersection of IH 30/US 59; then southward and concurrent with US 59 to SH 93/SL 151; then southward, eastward and concurrent with SL 151 to State Line Road, a total distance of approximately 24.6 miles. (Bowie County)  (New Description)  Section on new location added from the Texas/Arkansas State Line, northwest of Texarkana, southeastward to State Line Rd in south Texarkana.  Upon completion of the new location of US 71, the present designation of US 71 north of Texarkana, from the Texas/Arkansas State Line southward to IH 30 will be cancelled and retained as US 59; the present designation of US 71, from IH 30 southward to its junction with US 67/US 82 will be cancelled and redesignated in conjunction and cooperation with the State of Arkansas; the present designation of SL 151, from US 59.eastward to State Line Road will be cancelled and retained as US 71.


This basically would be from the proposed crossing of I-49 on the Red River to the existing I-369. There really isn't a path across Texarkana to get there absent tearing down half of Pleasant Grove.  I really figure this was an oversight, but...... It is still there.

I expect at SOME point, the route that the proposed toll road was supposed to take will be built more or less, but that will come AFTER the freeway is finished from near Sulphur River to Loop 151 / the current I-369.
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

In_Correct

They must build the Toll Road first.
Drive Safely. :sombrero: Ride Safely. And Build More Roads, Rails, And Bridges. :coffee: ... Boulevards Wear Faster Than Interstates.

Bobby5280

#20
I doubt if any toll road gets built around the West side of Texarkana up to I-49 on the North side of town. Multiple factors are working against it. First of all the current political climate in Texas is very sour on toll roads. Plans are getting more and more solid for I-369 follow US-59 into the South side of Texarkana and merge with the existing loop. That takes the alternative routing of I-369 farther West up through the TexAmericas Center off the table.

Then there is the question of how much traffic sites like the TexAmericas Center will generate for the I-49 corridor. Obviously some will go South on US-59/Future I-369 (not I-49, that was a typo) down to the Houston area and beyond. But it's hard to justify building a "direct" route South out of the TexAmericas Center to meet up with I-49. Wright Patman Lake and wetlands North of it is a big obstacle. That would force a diagonal route that wouldn't save much over taking I-30 to the Texarakana loop and hooking up with I-369 there.

The I-49 corridor going North out of Texarkana won't be very attractive to commercial drivers from points like the TexAmericas Center until much of the freeway is completed. That's going to take a long time.

If the powers that be in Texarkana want a western bypass connecting to I-49, I think they need to start out in modest fashion. Establish a Super 2 route and reserve as much freeway-wide ROW as possible along the way. As more of I-49 in Arkansas is completed then more of this Western partial loop for Texarkana can be upgraded.

edwaleni

It is mentioned elsewhere.

TxDOT already owns the ROW for I-49 to cross over from Arkansas.

They will not do anything until ArDOT gets funding for I-49 extension.

Until Arkansas actually does something, there really isn't much to talk about.

bwana39

#22
Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 20, 2021, 11:12:16 PM


Obviously some will go South on I-49 down to the Houston area and beyond.

This one just stumps me. The only Texarkana to Houston  traffic that goes through Shreveport (I-49) is that that are tied to the fuel contracts at the truck stops in Greenwood. That is becoming less a factor as there is  both Pilot-Flying J (multiple) and Love's  in / around Texarkana. While there is more freeway mileage, the overall is 15 to 20 miles more (some of it on US79 in Louisiana -2 LANES) and pretty much a wash on time.  I have said his before (from almost daily experience) half or more of the trucks on I-49 between Shreveport and the state line is Frac sand haulers originating in near Garland City Ar.  Few if any trucks actually originating south of Carthage is diverting through Shreveport.

Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 20, 2021, 11:12:16 PM
I doubt if any toll road gets built around the West side of Texarkana up to I-49 on the North side of town. .

I tend to agree. but at the same time, the proposed route for I-49 would itself make up most of the "northern loop"  This all said, the Arkansas construction north from the Red River to create the demand for the Texas construction on I-49 is probably over a decade away.

I absolutely  agree that bringing I-369 along Lake Drive is what the powers that be want and absent some uncommon outside influence, it is going to happen. That said, in casual conversation, they want both the Lake Drive route and the western spur. They want the Lake drive route more and they want it first.  The bottom line is commercial real estate concerns will drive where this road goes.  TexAmericas center is a quasi-governmental organization with a single source marketing contract. It is the bane of the commercial real estate agents. They would want the road to go toward the commercial real estate that is ready for sale through brokers who work within MLS and other local and regional trade groups. Talk all you will about job creation, economic development is solely about two things: Sale of commercial real estate and construction. If jobs get created, it is mostly irrelevant (unintentional) and makes the developers look good.  Job development MAY help make a project more palatable to the members of the community who will be negatively impacted but at the same time not really any part of the reason why a project is proposed.

It is the reason why small towns fight loops (the commercial property along the disused route falls in value while a new routing would likely be through agricultural property and purchased at agricultural prices without the aid of real estate agents.)  It has no value to the local power brokers if it doesn't increase value and / or marketability of currently held commercial real estate.
Road construction is seldom done by local contractors so it also has no value locally.


Quote from: edwaleni on April 21, 2021, 10:41:41 AM
It is mentioned elsewhere.

TxDOT already owns the ROW for I-49 to cross over from Arkansas.

They will not do anything until ArDOT gets funding for I-49 extension.

Until Arkansas actually does something, there really isn't much to talk about.

EXACTLY.  All / any  of this is probably a decade or more away.
Let's build what we need as economically as possible.

Bobby5280

Quote from: bwana39This one just stumps me. The only Texarkana to Houston  traffic that goes through Shreveport (I-49) is that that are tied to the fuel contracts at the truck stops in Greenwood.

That was actually a typo. I meant to type US-59/Future I-369. It looks like TX DOT has every intention of fully building out I-369 to Texarkana. I think it has more momentum than I-49 between Fort Smith and the Red River.

Quote from: bwana39I absolutely agree that bringing I-369 along Lake Drive is what the powers that be want and absent some uncommon outside influence, it is going to happen. That said, in casual conversation, they want both the Lake Drive route and the western spur. They want the Lake drive route more and they want it first.  The bottom line is commercial real estate concerns will drive where this road goes.

Commercial real estate developers and certain property owners prefer a brand new super highway to be built closer to their lands. But the problem is the closer you build a super highway near development the more properties you have to buy and demolish in the process.

I think it's a long shot any kind of bypass goes around the West side of Texarkana to connect into the short segment of I-49 in Texas. If real estate developers within Texarkana want to control where any sort of west bypass gets located they could start by laying down a 2-lane street and buying up (and clearing) freeway-wide swaths of land next to that street. Or they could go farther and have the city or county build a divided 4-lane street with a huge median in the middle of it. In any of those scenarios the best case I see is a connector from I-49 near the Red River going Southwest to some point along I-20 between Texarkana and the TexAmericas Center.

bwana39

Quote from: Bobby5280 on April 21, 2021, 02:17:48 PM


Commercial real estate developers and certain property owners prefer a brand new super highway to be built closer to their lands. But the problem is the closer you build a super highway near development the more properties you have to buy and demolish in the process.

I think it's a long shot any kind of bypass goes around the West side of Texarkana to connect into the short segment of I-49 in Texas. If real estate developers within Texarkana want to control where any sort of west bypass gets located they could start by laying down a 2-lane street and buying up (and clearing) freeway-wide swaths of land next to that street. Or they could go farther and have the city or county build a divided 4-lane street with a huge median in the middle of it. In any of those scenarios the best case I see is a connector from I-49 near the Red River going Southwest to some point along I-30 between Texarkana and the TexAmericas Center.

I tend to agree it will never get built unless it is a toll road. A tollway MIGHT eventually get built akin to how loop 49 around Tyler has been built.  Even then it would either be after the time that I-49 was completed from US-71 to Ashdown (AR-32) or farther.   Local support for this would be minimal in the power circles until  Texarkana was actually built out close to Hooks. The one exception would be to spite Arkansas. In Texarkana, MOST of the animus seems to come from Arkansas against Texas.



Let's build what we need as economically as possible.



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