Traffic signal

[Caps81943]

Bay City, Texas has some horizontal pole mounted signals such as this one...
SH 35 @ SH 60

Not sure how common these are. I've only seen them in Bay City.

Am I missing something? All I see are horizontal lights on wires, which are very common throughout Texas (at least in the area between Houston and Dallas)

[STLmapboy]

Well this is odd. Here's a pedestrian signal hanging from a span wire--at level with the traffic signals! In Franklin, Virginia.

[andrewkbrown]

Well this is odd. Here's a pedestrian signal hanging from a span wire--at level with the traffic signals! In Franklin, Virginia.

Your post reminded me of this pedestrian signal in Cincinnati. While not at level with the traffic signals, it hangs from the span wire.
https://goo.gl/maps/aVATxKJU1nmS5uzD8

[plain]

Well this is odd. Here's a pedestrian signal hanging from a span wire--at level with the traffic signals! In Franklin, Virginia.

That's not a pedestrian signal, it's an old school NO TURN ON RED.

EDIT: I typed to fast lol. I meant NO LEFT TURN.

[US71]

This was at the VA Medical Center in Fayetteville, but has been gone 7-8 years.

[betfourteen]

https://goo.gl/maps/Dq9RLqTa1KNamhcq9

It's like NYS DOT forgot about this one. Pretty much every other protected left turn on Hempstead Turnpike, and other NYS roads (at least on LI), have been changed to the red arrow instead of red solid ball. You can even see where the LEFT TURN SIGNAL sign used to hang from.

[jakeroot]

Bay City, Texas has some horizontal pole mounted signals such as this one...
SH 35 @ SH 60

Not sure how common these are. I've only seen them in Bay City.

Am I missing something? All I see are horizontal lights on wires, which are very common throughout Texas (at least in the area between Houston and Dallas)

I'm seeing the same thing. That link is to a very Texas-looking installation...in Texas!

This is definitely something you don't see everyday, a 4-section T-signal. The top aspect is a red orb & red arrow. This is on Washington St at Queen St in Alexandria, VA. There's another one in the opposite direction at the previous intersection (Washington at Princess St)

Image from GSV

Woah!? Probably a TOD signal with protected only during rush hour?

It could also be an LPI during the walk phase (example).

Ahh I see now. Now I wonder what the bottom aspect is? Maybe a bi-modal green/yellow?

I believe it's a lagging green arrow. No oncoming left turn.

Edit: Post 12345! Who doesn't love consecutive numbers!?

[mrsman]

Bay City, Texas has some horizontal pole mounted signals such as this one...
SH 35 @ SH 60

Not sure how common these are. I've only seen them in Bay City.

Am I missing something? All I see are horizontal lights on wires, which are very common throughout Texas (at least in the area between Houston and Dallas)

I'm seeing the same thing. That link is to a very Texas-looking installation...in Texas!

This is definitely something you don't see everyday, a 4-section T-signal. The top aspect is a red orb & red arrow. This is on Washington St at Queen St in Alexandria, VA. There's another one in the opposite direction at the previous intersection (Washington at Princess St)

Image from GSV

Woah!? Probably a TOD signal with protected only during rush hour?

It could also be an LPI during the walk phase (example).

Ahh I see now. Now I wonder what the bottom aspect is? Maybe a bi-modal green/yellow?

I believe it's a lagging green arrow. No oncoming left turn.

It seems like the intersection allows for both a LPI and a lagging left turn, at rush hours.  The LPI may be for more of the day, which explains the red arrow to prevent turning when peds initially have the walk sign.  The lagging left is only during rush, and this can be seen at the intersection with Princess.  The opposing left at Princess is prohibited during rush hours.  To prevent yellow trap, given the signals present, the opposing lefts must be prohibited.  Since they are only prohibited during rush hours, those are the only times where a lagging left would be safe.

[mrsman]

I have seen intersections like this in other states where its just a single lane approach but the decision was made to split-phase, but this is typically done on a case-by-case basis usually because of issues with overlapping left turns or very heavy approaches (although even then, leading green arrows for one approach seem more common). In Utah, it seems to be the opposite: approaches without a dedicated left turn lane but with the option to turn left (aka, an "option lane") are automatically split-phased from the off, and only become permissive-only "concurrent green" intersections later on as required due to issues with traffic or pedestrian flow.

I wonder if TOD phasing can be utilised at these kind of intersections mentioned above with the standard 4-section signal (R-Y-G-GA*) to switch between the following phasings especially when traffic volumes are light, so traffic doesn't have to wait for the split phase and phasing can be shorter in low traffic periods especially at night:

- Permissive only phasing (only R-Y-G used) during lighter periods.
- Split phasing (R-Y-G-GA used) during peak periods.

*Especially NHDOT, they sometimes like to use a 4-section bimodal signal (R-Y-G-GA/YA) for left turn (and left/thru movements) even when approaches are split phased... with the yellow arrow, more phasings could be implemented for such TOD phasing.

Like this? AARoads Forum > Traffic Control > Unusual Time-of-Day Signals

Yeah, something like that as described on that topic.

My preference for a TOD switch between split-phasing and regular phasing would involve doghouses (or 5 aspect towers) instead of teh 4 aspect RYG-GA signal.  The reason for this would be to avoid confusion for someone who typically drives at the intersection only at peak times and now approaches the signal during off peak.  As they generally see split-phasing, using the 4 aspect signal face that is mainly used for split phasing, it is very easy for that driver to assume that the signal is always split phased and would advance on a left turn during off-peak even without seeing the green arrow.  They may assume that the left arrow has burned out or just be so used to making such a turn that they are not even aware of a possible alternative.

Doghouses are more commonly used for signals where thru and left are not necessarily at the same time.  A driver seeing the doghouse would be more careful to watch for the arrow before turning.

In other words, a 4-aspect RYG-GA signal that is used for split-phasing should only be used if split-phasing is done throughout the day.  If it is not, a doghouse is preferred.

One of my favorite uses of split-phasing may be instructive here:  Saul Rd at Connecticut in Kensington, MD:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0154379,-77.078671,3a,15y,279.96h,93t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s4D_6YMRSl3E0eaZ5n6GaEQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

This is not TOD change sequencing, rather its pedestrian based change sequencing, but the point can still be made.  EB is the heavier of the two movements on Saul and always gets split-phased and sees a 4 aspect RYG-GA signal.  WB, during normal split phasing operation, will have green and green arrow displayed simultaneously on the doghouse.  But if a pedestrian is crossing, they will only get green ball.  The sign says: Left turn yield to pedestrians on green ball.  The sign indicates that the opposing traffic is stopped during green ball, but there is still a need to watch for pedestrians. [More recent GSV images have the sign removed.  A mistake, IMO.]

The primary use of the above is to allow the pedestrians to cross during both the EB and WB phases of the split-phase, which reduces overall red type on the N-S street (which is far busier).  But it can also conceivably be used in TOD operations (without the sign, of course) to alert drivers that they do not have a protected turn and must yield to opposing traffic.

Another nearby signal is also instructive.  A sign to alert drivers that the arrow does not light up during rush hours:

https://www.google.com/maps/@39.0275669,-77.0766172,3a,15y,198.08h,94.71t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s54bNucPKRjOvHoDBSqdJeg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

[ErmineNotyours]

Well this is odd. Here's a pedestrian signal hanging from a span wire--at level with the traffic signals! In Franklin, Virginia.

Seattle says, "Hold my beer."





This is the only one of the three still installed:

[Big John]

MUTCD

01 Pedestrian signal heads shall be mounted with the bottom of the signal housing including brackets not less than 7 feet or more than 10 feet above sidewalk level, and shall be positioned and adjusted to provide maximum visibility at the beginning of the controlled crosswalk.

[CoreySamson]

Bay City, Texas has some horizontal pole mounted signals such as this one...
SH 35 @ SH 60

Not sure how common these are. I've only seen them in Bay City.

Am I missing something? All I see are horizontal lights on wires, which are very common throughout Texas (at least in the area between Houston and Dallas)

I'm seeing the same thing. That link is to a very Texas-looking installation...in Texas!

I guess what I meant to indicate is that there are no backplates on the signals in question. Most Texas signals suspended by wires look somewhat like this. The other interesting thing about those signals is Bay City usually uses older vertical signals instead of horizontal ones. Also span wires are becoming increasingly rare in Texas.

[mrsman]

UDOT does a lot of things that are very unlike surrounding states. At first, it was that split-phasing rule; I remember you mentioning that intersections without left turn lanes are almost always split-phased. That's definitely not something I've seen anywhere else except as required by heavy left turns or whatever. Yet another thing: they seem to simply refuse to use post-mounted signals even when they would make sense, despite being used by every state surrounding it.

Wait, do you mind explaining this? The way I know of split phasing is an intersection like this] (on the approaches from I-81 and the side street) where one side gets protected green for all directions (including arrows and the like), and then if necessary the other approach also gets all-protected green. I know occasionally this is done with just green balls (no arrows...I believe 7's two Berryville lights about 15 miles east of this intersection give the side streets arrow-less split phasing). How exactly did Utah do their split phasing?

What I mean is an intersection like this. In WA, and many other states, this would be permissive (as it is in that link): left turns would yield to through traffic, and traffic continuing straight or turning right would either wait for that car, or go around them using what is typically a wide-enough area of the intersection to the right of the waiting vehicle to perform those maneuvers. In Utah, however, the general practice seems to be that all left turns without a dedicated left turn lane are split-phased: movements from that approach will have a green ball and green arrow, and no permissive phase, even if the approach is just a single lane. Example here of what I assume is a very quiet intersection but yet split-phasing is used. I don't get it. Utah is very conservative in this regard.

I have seen intersections like this in other states where its just a single lane approach but the decision was made to split-phase, but this is typically done on a case-by-case basis usually because of issues with overlapping left turns or very heavy approaches (although even then, leading green arrows for one approach seem more common). In Utah, it seems to be the opposite: approaches without a dedicated left turn lane but with the option to turn left (aka, an "option lane") are automatically split-phased from the off, and only become permissive-only "concurrent green" intersections later on as required due to issues with traffic or pedestrian flow.

The situation in Utah that you highlighted seems to be one of the better uses of split phasing.  Split phasing is certainly to be discouraged because by increasing the number of signal phases, you decrease the green time for everyone else.  But in situations where left turns from the side street to the main street are a heavy movment, they are useful.  The two most common situations where I see split phasing is where one or both of the side streets leads to a shopping center and the other situation is where one of the side streets is a collector but dwindles down to a very small residential upon crossing the intersection.  The Utah case is the latter case, where 500 North is a collector to the east of Columbus but a very small residential to the west.  The majority of traffic from the east will turn.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the intersection is designed with a right lane must turn right.  If that lane wasn't designated, then it would be fairly easy is someone wanted to go westbound on 500 north across the intersection to use the right lane to bypass left turning cars, if there was regular signalization.  But given the right turn lane, they are not allowed to.  If so much of the traffic does turn onto Columbus, it makes sense to prioritize right turns with their own lane, so that right turners can make a right on red (as well as green arrow during corresponding left from Columbus) and not be blocked by cars going straight.  Also, for cars coming eastbound, the part of 500 north west of Columbus is very narrow and may not be able to pass a left turner on the right.

Another area that makes widespread use of split-phasing is the unincorporated areas of suburban Sacramento county, especially Arden-Arcade and Carmichael.

Here is an example where the side street (Hurley) is a collector on one side, but a small residential (San Ysidro) on the other side, at the intersection of Watt Avenue.  Somewhat similar to the situation in Utah:

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5885923,-121.3830467,3a,75y,106.81h,86.87t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjlqMr-CQRZsN7kh6bBYS0Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Here is another example a few blocks away.  Morse is a collector on both sides.  Here, it seems the motivation for split-phasing was to prevent the need to paint left turn pockets so that the bike lane can be continuous through the intersection without widening the street.  Hurley/Morse.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5886642,-121.3922476,3a,75y,173.39h,89.82t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_7e5u3ypOD5JfKzbLY9RVA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Here is one more nearby that is a treat for those who like 12-8-8, 8-8-12, and even a 12-8-8-12 signal faces.  Hurley/Fulton.

https://www.google.com/maps/@38.5887543,-121.4014607,3a,75y,241.46h,92.57t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sUej78Q7CcFetuJU6PW-mfw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DUej78Q7CcFetuJU6PW-mfw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D222.91882%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192

This part of town is great in that all collectors and major streets in the area east of Ethan and north of El Camino are named after inventors:  Howe, Bell, Wright, Fulton, Morse, Watt, Marconi, Pope, Whitney, Edison.

I wanted to bring our discussion back to split-phasing for a moment.

Ideally, as we all know, it is nice if a given intersection had at least one exclusive lane for each movement without option lanes.  One lane for left turns, one lane for straight traffic, and one lane for right turns.  Providing such would allow each turning movement to be unrestricted.  straight traffic will not be blocked by left turners and right turners would be able to make a RTOR and not blocked by straight traffic. 

Now if there are only two lanes of traffic, someone is going to be blocked.  The usual configuration is one lane for lefts and one lane for straight, but there could be good reasons as to why the configuration is instead on lane for left/straight and one lane for rights (usually when there is little straight traffic and heavy turning traffic so that right turners have more ability to RTOR).

[fwydriver405]

Here's an intersection in Bloomfield NJ with a 4-section bimodal, a 5-section doghouse, and an inline 5-section signal all at one intersection.

Also in NJ, a 3M doghouse and inline 5 at the same intersection as well (1,2). Are there any places that used the 3M 4-section bimodal signal at all?

[Amtrakprod]

Well, the new bike signal was finally activated in my town, locals still quite don't get it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlJw_si2QnE

[roadman65]

https://goo.gl/maps/x1LCpZJ3WpGKG7rC9

Is Virginia phasing out Span Wire signals?

I see more and more mast arms popping up like in neighboring Maryland.  However VDOT is keeping the yellow unlike Maryland going all black.  I only see Hampton Roads following MD in that aspect though.

I always remembered the 12-8-8 signals in the 80s

[Caps81943]

Virginia is absolutely phasing out span wires. Really when any state install (essentially every light outside of some cities and towns) wears out in some manner, VDOT replaces the intersection (or sometimes just the direction) with a mast arms, lights with nearly all-yellow backplates, and FYA's (if there was a doghouse before). There are very few exceptions to this practice. I can think of one intersection over the past few years of them doing this that has stayed span wire, and just recently they retrofitted an intersection near me but kept the left turn doghouses. But probably in the next 5-10 years or so, all VDOT traffic lights will have the same homogenous design: mast arms, yellow backplates, flashing yellow arrows (at permissive lefts) with very few exceptions.

Edit: as far as I know, the only 12-8-8 state install left is on US-60 in Sandston. If anyone knows of more, I'd love to see them.

[SignBridge]

The color of backplates has become an interesting question. The MUTCD requires that backplates be painted black, period. But now they allow the yellow reflective borders which are becoming very common. So the end result is with a yellow head and yellow borders, only a very small part of the backplates is black which kind of defeats the purpose of the original standard. So they might as well just allow the whole backplate to be yellow like in Canada. Though personally I preferred the black backplate without yellow borders.

[plain]

https://goo.gl/maps/x1LCpZJ3WpGKG7rC9

Is Virginia phasing out Span Wire signals?

I see more and more mast arms popping up like in neighboring Maryland.  However VDOT is keeping the yellow unlike Maryland going all black.  I only see Hampton Roads following MD in that aspect though.

I always remembered the 12-8-8 signals in the 80s

It's not just the Hampton Roads that are using black signal housings, a few others are doing it too. Actually, as far as city-wide goes, it began with Roanoke.

This is what I said in the Virginia thread last year:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=294.msg2416295#msg2416295

EDIT: As I'm sure you know, only the front of most of the MDSHA signals are black.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

The color of backplates has become an interesting question. The MUTCD requires that backplates be painted black, period. But now they allow the yellow reflective borders which are becoming very common. So the end result is with a yellow head and yellow borders, only a very small part of the backplates is black which kind of defeats the purpose of the original standard. So they might as well just allow the whole backplate to be yellow like in Canada. Though personally I preferred the black backplate without yellow borders.

Speaking from personal experience, the reflective tape makes a world of difference at night. You can easily see a signal,even if it is not operating, when the tape is applied.

The all yellow Canadian backplates help a little but not much.

[plain]

The color of backplates has become an interesting question. The MUTCD requires that backplates be painted black, period. But now they allow the yellow reflective borders which are becoming very common. So the end result is with a yellow head and yellow borders, only a very small part of the backplates is black which kind of defeats the purpose of the original standard. So they might as well just allow the whole backplate to be yellow like in Canada. Though personally I preferred the black backplate without yellow borders.

Speaking from personal experience, the reflective tape makes a world of difference at night. You can easily see a signal,even if it is not operating, when the tape is applied.

The all yellow Canadian backplates help a little but not much.

I've never been to Canada, but judging by what you said I take it the yellow backplates there are not reflective?

[roadman65]

https://goo.gl/maps/x1LCpZJ3WpGKG7rC9

Is Virginia phasing out Span Wire signals?

I see more and more mast arms popping up like in neighboring Maryland.  However VDOT is keeping the yellow unlike Maryland going all black.  I only see Hampton Roads following MD in that aspect though.

I always remembered the 12-8-8 signals in the 80s

It's not just the Hampton Roads that are using black signal housings, a few others are doing it too. Actually, as far as city-wide goes, it began with Roanoke.

This is what I said in the Virginia thread last year:

https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=294.msg2416295#msg2416295

EDIT: As I'm sure you know, only the front of most of the MDSHA signals are black.

No I did not know as last time I was in MD was 2003 when many new installations I saw were all black.

Must of been a phase it was going through like Florida in late 70s had what MD must of been then for a short while until they decided both sides black which has been the norm since.  Originally a Florida signal was yellow with cut out visors and all concrete poles.

[thenetwork]

Whenever I see black traffic signals with yellow visors (or vice versa) I always think about those half and half cookies (one side chocolate, one side vanilla). Don't ask me why.

[kphoger]

Whenever I see black traffic signals with yellow visors (or vice versa) I always think about those half and half cookies (one side chocolate, one side vanilla). Don't ask me why.

I eat those cookies every day with my lunch at work.  So, great, does that mean I'm going to think of stoplights on my lunch break now?

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

The color of backplates has become an interesting question. The MUTCD requires that backplates be painted black, period. But now they allow the yellow reflective borders which are becoming very common. So the end result is with a yellow head and yellow borders, only a very small part of the backplates is black which kind of defeats the purpose of the original standard. So they might as well just allow the whole backplate to be yellow like in Canada. Though personally I preferred the black backplate without yellow borders.

Speaking from personal experience, the reflective tape makes a world of difference at night. You can easily see a signal,even if it is not operating, when the tape is applied.

The all yellow Canadian backplates help a little but not much.

I've never been to Canada, but judging by what you said I take it the yellow backplates there are not reflective?

No they arent but I was only in Toronto and Niagara falls. Other provinces may be different