Interstate 81 in Syracuse

[davewiecking]

Why can't something similar to this happen with I-68 through Cumberland Maryland by building a bypass around Cumberland and demolishing the I-68 viaduct and turning that into a community grid?

Syracuse has an already-existing I-481 bypass that can take over I-81. Hagerstown's suburbs have no such thing, nor as has been noted, the topography to allow one to be built at a reasonable cost and without unreasonable disruption to the area.

Hagerstown?

Thank you...

[The Ghostbuster]

How much would have to be torn down to "hypothetically"  reconstruct the substandard segment of Interstate 68 in Cumberland to Interstate Standards?

[Rothman]

How much would have to be torn down to "hypothetically"  reconstruct the substandard segment of Interstate 68 in Cumberland to Interstate Standards?

Given what would have been torn down in Syracuse, I'd imagine more than what people may think.  In Syracuse, at least there was space on the west side of the viaduct (still would have required massive ROW acquisition).  In Cumberland, I-68 was really squeezed through the city, much more tightly.

[seicer]

I'm not sure it would be worth the expense but it's a densely populated area. Just to straighten out the curves would mean taking out some newly redeveloped areas near the viaduct - a spillover from the tourism generated by the Western Maryland Scenic Railway. It's also along the federal C&O Canal National Historical Park. I think that alone may be a non-starter to doing any major widening of the existing viaduct.

[Rothman]

Hello section 4(f), killer of project schedules.

[kalvado]

Hello section 4(f), killer of project schedules.

And for those of us who don't know which legal document you're referring to?

[Rothman]

Hello section 4(f), killer of project schedules.

And for those of us who don't know which legal document you're referring to?

USDOT Act of 1966.  Once public lands are involved, it kicks off an entire convoluted federal subprocess.

I was referring to the NPS C&O Canal site in Cumberland, rather than I-81.

[Plutonic Panda]

Final design: https://www.localsyr.com/news/future-of-81/highlights-of-the-i-81-viaduct-project-final-environmental-impact-statement/

[Rothman]

Final design: https://www.localsyr.com/news/future-of-81/highlights-of-the-i-81-viaduct-project-final-environmental-impact-statement/

Well, FEIS, anyway.  Next stop, ROD.

[abqtraveler]

Final design: https://www.localsyr.com/news/future-of-81/highlights-of-the-i-81-viaduct-project-final-environmental-impact-statement/

Well, FEIS, anyway.  Next stop, ROD.

I though the FHWA was publishing FEISs and RODs concurrently as a way to streamline the NEPA process. Why is that not the case here?

[Rothman]

Final design: https://www.localsyr.com/news/future-of-81/highlights-of-the-i-81-viaduct-project-final-environmental-impact-statement/

Well, FEIS, anyway.  Next stop, ROD.

I though the FHWA was publishing FEISs and RODs concurrently as a way to streamline the NEPA process. Why is that not the case here?

Not sure, but I haven't heard the ROD being signed off on yet.

FHWA's done some weird things with this one, though.  Legal sufficiency was strangely timed...some cart before the horse kinds of things.

[ixnay]

Next stop, ROD.

Refresh my memory.  What's an ROD?

[Anthony_JK]

Record of Decision. It reflects FHWA's final approval of the selected alternative and the final passage of the NEPA/Section 106 environmental analysis process.

A 45 day period of comments from designated agencies and the public is normally given following the release of the Final EIS in order to solicit public comment; then, unless there is some significant opposition or any changes in impacts, the ROD is then approved, signed and released to the public.

[Rothman]

Record of Decision. It reflects FHWA's final approval of the selected alternative and the final passage of the NEPA/Section 106 environmental analysis process.

A 45 day period of comments from designated agencies and the public is normally given following the release of the Final EIS in order to solicit public comment; then, unless there is some significant opposition or any changes in impacts, the ROD is then approved, signed and released to the public.

Definitely waiting on any new comments (i.e., comments not previously addressed) in this case.  Lawsuits are also expected.

[ixnay]

In Syracuse, at least there was space on the west side of the viaduct (still would have required massive ROW acquisition).

Per Google Sat, I don't see too much open space west of the viaduct.  Some parking lots, but also the Pioneer Homes, the McMahon Child Advocacy Center, a parking garage, and a couple of other things.

[CtrlAltDel]

Final design: https://www.localsyr.com/news/future-of-81/highlights-of-the-i-81-viaduct-project-final-environmental-impact-statement/

Officially released on Good Friday? Is there something they're trying to hide?

[Rothman]

Final design: https://www.localsyr.com/news/future-of-81/highlights-of-the-i-81-viaduct-project-final-environmental-impact-statement/

Officially released on Good Friday? Is there something they're trying to hide?

Right.  The thing was distributed online and hard copies of the thousands of pages distributed to libraries and available for reading at DOT's Regional office.

And, because it was done on a holiday not observed by the State, NYSDOT is trying to hide something.

Puh-leeeeeze.

[Rothman]

In Syracuse, at least there was space on the west side of the viaduct (still would have required massive ROW acquisition).

Per Google Sat, I don't see too much open space west of the viaduct.  Some parking lots, but also the Pioneer Homes, the McMahon Child Advocacy Center, a parking garage, and a couple of other things.

We were comparing it to Cumberland.

See the space between Adams and I-690 on the backside of the towers.  There's more space there than in Cumberland.

Context matters...

[CtrlAltDel]

Final design: https://www.localsyr.com/news/future-of-81/highlights-of-the-i-81-viaduct-project-final-environmental-impact-statement/

Officially released on Good Friday? Is there something they're trying to hide?

Right.  The thing was distributed online and hard copies of the thousands of pages distributed to libraries and available for reading at DOT's Regional office.

And, because it was done on a holiday not observed by the State, NYSDOT is trying to hide something.

Puh-leeeeeze.

It's a legit question that frankly doesn't warrant your derisive sarcasm. It's not exactly uncommon to release unpleasant things at the end of a week when people's minds are on an upcoming holiday.

(Moreover, to at least pretend that this isn't what they're doing, the report would necessarily have to be released on a day that isn't an official holiday.)

[Rothman]

Final design: https://www.localsyr.com/news/future-of-81/highlights-of-the-i-81-viaduct-project-final-environmental-impact-statement/

Officially released on Good Friday? Is there something they're trying to hide?

Right.  The thing was distributed online and hard copies of the thousands of pages distributed to libraries and available for reading at DOT's Regional office.

And, because it was done on a holiday not observed by the State, NYSDOT is trying to hide something.

Puh-leeeeeze.

It's a legit question that frankly doesn't warrant your derisive sarcasm. It's not exactly uncommon to release unpleasant things on days when people's minds are on an upcoming holiday.

You specifically mentioned hiding.  If anything, your question wasn't legit because of your bias -- I think you wanted it to be something nefarious and wanted that notion confirmed.  So, you didn't take any initiative to look beyond that bias and see the quite ample evidence that NYSDOT wasn't trying to hide anything.

I mean, NYSDOT held a press conference, for crying out loud.  Someone hiding something doesn't typically announce it on all the news stations...

[CtrlAltDel]

So, you didn't take any initiative to look beyond that bias

Other than asking my question on a message board full of people who pay attention to such things, no.

Past that, this seems to be something that pushes your berserk button, and so, to spare the throbbing vein in your forehead, I will bow out.

[Alps]

So, you didn't take any initiative to look beyond that bias

Other than asking my question on a message board full of people who pay attention to such things, no.

Past that, this seems to be something that pushes your berserk button, and so, to spare the throbbing vein in your forehead, I will bow out.

Please do.

[webny99]

I don't think there's anything awry here - but it's obviously not good news for anyone that wanted the project to happen, while not generating much positive interest to anyone else. So it makes sense and isn't the least bit surprising that it would be a Friday news dump.

[Rothman]

I don't think there's anything awry here - but it's obviously not good news for anyone that wanted the project to happen, while not generating much positive interest to anyone else. So it makes sense and isn't the least bit surprising that it would be a Friday news dump.

How is it bad news for someone who wanted the project to happen?  The FEIS means the project is moving forward.

What'll hold it up now are the expected lawsuits (e.g., DestinyUSA).

[webny99]

I don't think there's anything awry here - but it's obviously not good news for anyone that wanted the project to happen, while not generating much positive interest to anyone else. So it makes sense and isn't the least bit surprising that it would be a Friday news dump.

How is it bad news for someone who wanted the project to happen?  The FEIS means the project is moving forward.

What'll hold it up now are the expected lawsuits (e.g., DestinyUSA).

Wow, I goofed badly. I didn't read back far enough and I thought this was the discussion about US 219 from another thread. Scratch my comment, but hopefully it makes more sense in that light!