Interstate 81 in Syracuse

[kalvado]

With the tunnel question. What extra traffic in the next 25 years do you see? None of the Thruway 5 (Buffalo-Rochester-Syracuse-Utica-Albany) are exactly projecting to see a moving boom in the next 25 years. Why should we make room for a tunnel that will never be built for traffic expectations likely to never be realized? Why can't we just tear the viaduct, let the community change and move on? They'll improve the roads around the city and in for the traffic that does exist. I've never seen statistics that say any of the Thruway 5 cities are gonna experience growth.

To be fair, Micron's a-coming.  That said, it's to the northwest of Syracuse, which means it could be an interesting case of people commuting from the city out to Cicero.

Micron is a big "I believe it when I see it". Flash prices collapse, and it's not that qualified per for the fab are abundant, or willing to move to Syracuse.

[froggie]

This being Syracuse, I'm not sold on Micron actually being a thing either.  Just look at the ORIGINAL DestinyUSA proposal.

[Flyer78]

What, didn't that groundbreaking for the grand hotel in 2002 give you hope?

[Rothman]

I wonder if the full build out will really be realized, but I have to say something will be built up there, even if only the first phase.  SEQR Lead Agency request is already in, I believe.

[roadman65]

You know just because the number is being changed don't mean we have to follow the new I-81 when complete. If we want to follow the original 81, we still can. We just have to get used to some lights, but other than that it's still the same.

So no need to whine about the whole thing.  Yeah maybe new exit numbers as well ( mile based to BL I-81) but the rest of the freeway still the same.

[vdeane]

You know just because the number is being changed don't mean we have to follow the new I-81 when complete. If we want to follow the original 81, we still can. We just have to get used to some lights, but other than that it's still the same.

So no need to whine about the whole thing.  Yeah maybe new exit numbers as well ( mile based to BL I-81) but the rest of the freeway still the same.

A bunch of lights, a roundabout, low speed limits, and a couple turns.  It's only three minutes slower to take I-481 over I-81 right now, so existing I-481 will definitely be the faster option upon completion.  Plus for those who care about taking interstates over other routes, current I-81 won't be part of the interstate system anymore (business routes don't count), so there's that.

Not "maybe" on new numbers.  I-81, BL 81, and I-690 will all be getting mile-based exit numbers as part of the project.  Probably NY 481 too, but the plans online don't show enough to see if the number for US 11 is fudged to avoid alphabet soup of if it's just sequential.  The plans online also don't show if NY 690 will get exit numbers, but the I-690 mileage includes it, so I would also say probably on that front.

[The Ghostbuster]

Are there any other roadways in New York State planning to convert to mileage-based exits after Interstate/Business 81 and Interstate/NY 690? New York is converting even slower than Connecticut.

[machias]

You know just because the number is being changed don't mean we have to follow the new I-81 when complete. If we want to follow the original 81, we still can. We just have to get used to some lights, but other than that it's still the same.

So no need to whine about the whole thing.  Yeah maybe new exit numbers as well ( mile based to BL I-81) but the rest of the freeway still the same.

A bunch of lights, a roundabout, low speed limits, and a couple turns.  It's only three minutes slower to take I-481 over I-81 right now, so existing I-481 will definitely be the faster option upon completion.  Plus for those who care about taking interstates over other routes, current I-81 won't be part of the interstate system anymore (business routes don't count), so there's that.

Not "maybe" on new numbers.  I-81, BL 81, and I-690 will all be getting mile-based exit numbers as part of the project.  Probably NY 481 too, but the plans online don't show enough to see if the number for US 11 is fudged to avoid alphabet soup of if it's just sequential.  The plans online also don't show if NY 690 will get exit numbers, but the I-690 mileage includes it, so I would also say probably on that front.

They're going to have to redo all the mile markers on NY 481 as IIRC they continue I-481's (missing) mile markers and they go almost all the way to Oswego (outside of the Fulton city limits). I thought I saw a plan somewhere with US 11 as Exit 2, so I'm assuming that'll be a go.

[vdeane]

^ That's what I'm wondering whether it's just fudged to avoid exit 1C, or if they actually made a new set of sequential numbers.

[roadman65]

https://goo.gl/maps/VNsYMjVhcGx2Az8w5
Currently both I-481/ NY 481 have the same scheme. NYSDOT can be cheap and not touch NY 481 as people wouldn’t care if the sequence starts a 9, but if you change it just convert to mile based as you’re changing the tabs anyway as if you started a new sequence north of I-81.

[roadman65]

You know just because the number is being changed don't mean we have to follow the new I-81 when complete. If we want to follow the original 81, we still can. We just have to get used to some lights, but other than that it's still the same.

So no need to whine about the whole thing.  Yeah maybe new exit numbers as well ( mile based to BL I-81) but the rest of the freeway still the same.

A bunch of lights, a roundabout, low speed limits, and a couple turns.  It's only three minutes slower to take I-481 over I-81 right now, so existing I-481 will definitely be the faster option upon completion.  Plus for those who care about taking interstates over other routes, current I-81 won't be part of the interstate system anymore (business routes don't count), so there's that.

Not "maybe" on new numbers.  I-81, BL 81, and I-690 will all be getting mile-based exit numbers as part of the project.  Probably NY 481 too, but the plans online don't show enough to see if the number for US 11 is fudged to avoid alphabet soup of if it's just sequential.  The plans online also don't show if NY 690 will get exit numbers, but the I-690 mileage includes it, so I would also say probably on that front.

In 2012 this was here to encourage through I-81 traffic to make the loop.

[davewiecking]

In 2012 this was here to encourage through I-81 traffic to make the loop.

Still said that 3 months ago:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9802874,-76.1311664,3a,60y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sd8jYo-z6Yh7bcVsUJEbOKQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

[roadman65]

Does anyone know the plan to reconfigure the current I-81 and I-481 exchange on the south side of Syracuse? I imagine it's more than adding lanes to the current NB I-81 to NB I-481 single lane ramp to a two lane ramp or replace the SB 481 to SB 81 flyover to a two lane flyover.

I assume a right side ramp to future BL I-81 will be created and the current free flowing SB I-81 freeway will be realigned to merge with Future I-81 SB on the right.

Plus the Brighton Avenue on-ramp to I-81 NB will be modified to allow access to I-81 SB as well.

[Rothman]

Does anyone know the plan to reconfigure the current I-81 and I-481 exchange on the south side of Syracuse? I imagine it's more than adding lanes to the current NB I-81 to NB I-481 single lane ramp to a two lane ramp or replace the SB 481 to SB 81 flyover to a two lane flyover.

I assume a right side ramp to future BL I-81 will be created and the current free flowing SB I-81 freeway will be realigned to merge with Future I-81 SB on the right.

Plus the Brighton Avenue on-ramp to I-81 NB will be modified to allow access to I-81 SB as well.

This is where I have a misgiving.  The I-81 SB to BL 81 NB connection will no longer be free-flowing and will have a traffic light in it to help with local connections east and west of the interchange. 

I use that movement every now and then, so I find that annoying, and, although population is more sparse down by Jamesville and Popley, I would think those people would use that ramp to get downtown.  Still, the AADT is what the AADT is...

I'm not sure if there's anything else more remarkable aboit the new configuration.

[roadman65]

Does anyone know the plan to reconfigure the current I-81 and I-481 exchange on the south side of Syracuse? I imagine it's more than adding lanes to the current NB I-81 to NB I-481 single lane ramp to a two lane ramp or replace the SB 481 to SB 81 flyover to a two lane flyover.

I assume a right side ramp to future BL I-81 will be created and the current free flowing SB I-81 freeway will be realigned to merge with Future I-81 SB on the right.

Plus the Brighton Avenue on-ramp to I-81 NB will be modified to allow access to I-81 SB as well.

This is where I have a misgiving.  The I-81 SB to BL 81 NB connection will no longer be free-flowing and will have a traffic light in it to help with local connections east and west of the interchange. 

I use that movement every now and then, so I find that annoying, and, although population is more sparse down by Jamesville and Popley, I would think those people would use that ramp to get downtown.  Still, the AADT is what the AADT is...

I'm not sure if there's anything else more remarkable aboit the new configuration.

so that light I take will be at Brighton Avenue? The current 481 SB to Brighten Avenue will be for BL I-81 via the current ramp signal there?

[roadman65]

https://webapps.dot.ny.gov/i-81-viaduct-project
I found this about the northern exchange.  This was pretty obvious design.

[froggie]

^ The same website has a graphic that answers your earlier question about the southern 81/481 interchange.

[webny99]

In 2012 this was here to encourage through I-81 traffic to make the loop.

Still said that 3 months ago:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9802874,-76.1311664,3a,60y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sd8jYo-z6Yh7bcVsUJEbOKQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Not much thru traffic actually uses I-481 though. As noted, it's about 3-4 minutes longer, and that's pretty consistent because there's rarely traffic through downtown Syracuse. That will definitely change with this project, though, as the boulevard will add at least several minutes to the downtown route.

The bigger question remains how the south to west movement will be affected since the current viaduct saves a full 8-9 minutes vs. the other freeway alternatives. My extremely long-term prediction, if/when the entire project in Syracuse is completed as planned, is that there will be a notable increase in traffic on I-86 west of Binghamton and I-390 (especially south of Exit 6) as traffic to/from Buffalo, Rochester and elsewhere in WNY shifts. (I'm hoping that's way into the future, but still shifting to "acceptance mode" for now.  )

[roadman65]

^ The same website has a graphic that answers your earlier question about the southern 81/481 interchange.

I can’t find it as it’s only the north end they show details to.. I wouldn’t ask if I found it on there, as that would be something for Ethanman, who has been gone for well over a decade who then would be to do for attention.

I do appreciate the link to it though as it does prove useful.

[vdeane]

In 2012 this was here to encourage through I-81 traffic to make the loop.

Still said that 3 months ago:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9802874,-76.1311664,3a,60y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sd8jYo-z6Yh7bcVsUJEbOKQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Not much thru traffic actually uses I-481 though. As noted, it's about 3-4 minutes longer, and that's pretty consistent because there's rarely traffic through downtown Syracuse. That will definitely change with this project, though, as the boulevard will add at least several minutes to the downtown route.

The bigger question remains how the south to east movement will be affected since the current viaduct saves a full 8-9 minutes vs. the other freeway alternatives. My extremely long-term prediction, if/when the entire project in Syracuse is completed as planned, is that there will be a notable increase in traffic on I-86 west of Binghamton and I-390 (especially south of Exit 6) as traffic to/from Buffalo, Rochester and elsewhere in WNY shifts. (I'm hoping that's way into the future, but still shifting to "acceptance mode" for now.  )

I expect that it will still be faster to take I-90/I-81, even with having to go out to current I-481, than to go down I-390 and I-86/NY 17 for much of the Rochester area.  Then again, people will often take routes they "feel" are faster, regardless if they actually are, so who knows.

^ The same website has a graphic that answers your earlier question about the southern 81/481 interchange.

I can't find it as it's only the north end they show details to.. I wouldn't ask if I found it on there, as that would be something for Ethanman, who has been gone for well over a decade who then would be to do for attention.

I do appreciate the link to it though as it does prove useful.

Scroll to the bottom.

[Rothman]

In 2012 this was here to encourage through I-81 traffic to make the loop.

Still said that 3 months ago:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.9802874,-76.1311664,3a,60y,90t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sd8jYo-z6Yh7bcVsUJEbOKQ!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

Not much thru traffic actually uses I-481 though. As noted, it's about 3-4 minutes longer, and that's pretty consistent because there's rarely traffic through downtown Syracuse. That will definitely change with this project, though, as the boulevard will add at least several minutes to the downtown route.

The bigger question remains how the south to east movement will be affected since the current viaduct saves a full 8-9 minutes vs. the other freeway alternatives. My extremely long-term prediction, if/when the entire project in Syracuse is completed as planned, is that there will be a notable increase in traffic on I-86 west of Binghamton and I-390 (especially south of Exit 6) as traffic to/from Buffalo, Rochester and elsewhere in WNY shifts. (I'm hoping that's way into the future, but still shifting to "acceptance mode" for now.  )

South to east...?

[webny99]

I expect that it will still be faster to take I-90/I-81, even with having to go out to current I-481, than to go down I-390 and I-86/NY 17 for much of the Rochester area.  Then again, people will often take routes they "feel" are faster, regardless if they actually are, so who knows.

Whereas I-90/I-81 is now ~10 minutes faster across the board, it's probably going to become dependent on where in the Rochester area your start/endpoint is. Anywhere west of I-390 is likely to be a toss-up at best, while points east may still favor I-90/I-81 - but that may include using I-690 to the new boulevard, especially at non-peak times.

The bigger question remains how the south to east west movement will be affected since the current viaduct saves a full 8-9 minutes vs. the other freeway alternatives. My extremely long-term prediction, if/when the entire project in Syracuse is completed as planned, is that there will be a notable increase in traffic on I-86 west of Binghamton and I-390 (especially south of Exit 6) as traffic to/from Buffalo, Rochester and elsewhere in WNY shifts. (I'm hoping that's way into the future, but still shifting to "acceptance mode" for now.  )

South to east...?

Whoops, I meant south to west.

[vdeane]

I expect that it will still be faster to take I-90/I-81, even with having to go out to current I-481, than to go down I-390 and I-86/NY 17 for much of the Rochester area.  Then again, people will often take routes they "feel" are faster, regardless if they actually are, so who knows.

Whereas I-90/I-81 is now ~10 minutes faster across the board, it's probably going to become dependent on where in the Rochester area your start/endpoint is. Anywhere west of I-390 is likely to be a toss-up at best, while points east may still favor I-90/I-81 - but that may include using I-690 to the new boulevard, especially at non-peak times.

The bigger question remains how the south to east west movement will be affected since the current viaduct saves a full 8-9 minutes vs. the other freeway alternatives. My extremely long-term prediction, if/when the entire project in Syracuse is completed as planned, is that there will be a notable increase in traffic on I-86 west of Binghamton and I-390 (especially south of Exit 6) as traffic to/from Buffalo, Rochester and elsewhere in WNY shifts. (I'm hoping that's way into the future, but still shifting to "acceptance mode" for now.  )

South to east...?

Whoops, I meant south to west.

Let's see... starting on I-390 south in Henrietta, ending on I-81 south in Binghamton, I-390/I-86/NY 17 is 2h 28m, while I-90/I-690/I-481/I-81 is 2h 28m, so roughly the same (vs. 2h 20m today for I-90/I-690/I-81).  Although I-86/NY 17 might "feel" faster due to the lack of backtracking in Syracuse.  Feel free to play around.

I would not expect traffic to take I-690 to BL 81 in large numbers.  Doing so will involve having to take a right and then a left, as there is no direct interchange on I-690 for BL 81 to/from the south.  Instead traffic will have to use the Crouse/Irving interchange a couple blocks away.  It would be easier to just take the Thruway to exit 36 if one wanted to use BL 81.

[webny99]

Let's see... starting on I-390 south in Henrietta, ending on I-81 south in Binghamton, I-390/I-86/NY 17 is 2h 28m, while I-90/I-690/I-481/I-81 is 2h 28m, so roughly the same (vs. 2h 20m today for I-90/I-690/I-81).  Although I-86/NY 17 might "feel" faster due to the lack of backtracking in Syracuse.  Feel free to play around.

Indeed I already had, and that was the basis for my comment about east vs. west of I-390. Basically, going through Syracuse will likely still be faster from anywhere that requires backtracking to get to I-390, which is almost everywhere east of I-390 except for the parts of Rush/Henrietta with easy access to Exits 11-14

I would not expect traffic to take I-690 to BL 81 in large numbers.  Doing so will involve having to take a right and then a left, as there is no direct interchange on I-690 for BL 81 to/from the south.  Instead traffic will have to use the Crouse/Irving interchange a couple blocks away.  It would be easier to just take the Thruway to exit 36 if one wanted to use BL 81.

That makes sense, considering I-90 to I-690 to I-81 is already almost a toss-up vs. taking I-90 to I-81 directly (and the latter can even be preferable during the State Fair or if I-690 backs up approaching I-81, as it sometimes does on weekday mornings).  My only concern would be that BL 81 will feed into local streets north of I-690, so what will probably end up as a few extra signals may end up making it close to a wash.

[vdeane]

^ That's a good point, especially as it occurred to me that even staying on BL 81 has the left turn complication.  I guess this is part of how they're distributing traffic onto the street grid rather than incentivizing everyone to just stay on the boulevard.