Interstate 81 in Syracuse

[Scott5114]

I'm going to choose control cities for the new signage that'll drive the ones obsessed with them nuts.

other Upstate Cities

[Rothman]

I'm going to choose control cities for the new signage that'll drive the ones obsessed with them nuts.

other Upstate Cities

Other Upstate City

[machias]

I see NY 481 is the first roadway in Region 3 to be getting mile based interchange numbers. And good for them with the CR 57A shield.

https://www.dot.ny.gov/doing-business/opportunities/const-contract-docs?p_d_id=D265142

[vdeane]

^ Interesting that they aren't using the same numbers as shown in the I-81 design documents.  IMO future exit 1B/1C is the perfect example for why the new MUTCD standard banning the skipping of suffixes in one direction in the case of partial interchanges needs to be less strict.  Exit 10 no longer having the same number in each direction is going to be confusing.

Also interesting that the project doesn't show up on the NYSDOT Projects in Your Neighborhood tool at all.

EDIT: That projects page has bigger problems than that.  It's listing projects that have already finished as "in development".

[Rothman]

^ Interesting that they aren't using the same numbers as shown in the I-81 design documents.  IMO future exit 1B/1C is the perfect example for why the new MUTCD standard banning the skipping of suffixes in one direction in the case of partial interchanges needs to be less strict.  Exit 10 no longer having the same number in each direction is going to be confusing.

Also interesting that the project doesn't show up on the NYSDOT Projects in Your Neighborhood tool at all.

EDIT: That projects page has bigger problems than that.  It's listing projects that have already finished as "in development".

Meh.  These exits are outside of the I-81 project limits anyway.  I'm pretty certain 380673 had its own design approval.  I can check on that.

[vdeane]

^ Interesting that they aren't using the same numbers as shown in the I-81 design documents.  IMO future exit 1B/1C is the perfect example for why the new MUTCD standard banning the skipping of suffixes in one direction in the case of partial interchanges needs to be less strict.  Exit 10 no longer having the same number in each direction is going to be confusing.

Also interesting that the project doesn't show up on the NYSDOT Projects in Your Neighborhood tool at all.

EDIT: That projects page has bigger problems than that.  It's listing projects that have already finished as "in development".

Meh.  These exits are outside of the I-81 project limits anyway.  I'm pretty certain 380673 had its own design approval.  I can check on that.

Wouldn't some of the advance signage for exit 1B be within the I-81 project limits?  The sign plans for that show it as exit 2.

[Rothman]

^ Interesting that they aren't using the same numbers as shown in the I-81 design documents.  IMO future exit 1B/1C is the perfect example for why the new MUTCD standard banning the skipping of suffixes in one direction in the case of partial interchanges needs to be less strict.  Exit 10 no longer having the same number in each direction is going to be confusing.

Also interesting that the project doesn't show up on the NYSDOT Projects in Your Neighborhood tool at all.

EDIT: That projects page has bigger problems than that.  It's listing projects that have already finished as "in development".

Meh.  These exits are outside of the I-81 project limits anyway.  I'm pretty certain 380673 had its own design approval.  I can check on that.

Wouldn't some of the advance signage for exit 1B be within the I-81 project limits?  The sign plans for that show it as exit 2.

Sure, right at the northern interchange, but Contract 1 doesn't go much further up NY 481 than the onramps from current I-81.  There was a lot of discussion over whether Circle Drive was even going to be within that contract's limits in the end, let alone signage way out in Phoenix.

(Personal opinion emphasized)

[Rothman]

And, yep, the ground mounted signs contract had its own design approval separate from I-81's FEIS.

[Flyer78]

Random thoughts on the plans:

--Nice to see street names on the intersection ahead (W2-*) signs.
--RIP Great Northern Mall guide sign.
--Nice to see directions being added to reassurance touring route markers.

[The Ghostbuster]

I had no idea that NY 481 was going to also have its exits renumbered to mileage-based along with Interstate 81/future Business 81/Interstate 690 (and hopefully, NY 690 as well). Wikipedia's NY 481 page has been updated to show the new exit numbers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_State_Route_481#Major_intersections, and I agree that the northern Interstate 81/future Business 81 interchange should be 481's mile 0.

[Rothman]

Dang, did we not report that the State lawsuit was ruled in NYSDOT's favor and the contracts are rolling forward   Detailed design is now authorized for Phase 2, I believe and all remaining Phase 1 contracts (3, 4, 5) are set to be awarded by early summer.

[seicer]

^ Good news!

NY state is free to tear down I-81 in Syracuse, appeals court rules

A New York appeals court today dismissed a legal challenge to the I-81 project in Syracuse, clearing the way for the state to tear down the highway viaduct that runs through the city.

The state Supreme Court's Appellate Division for the Fourth Department overturned a year-old decision by a Syracuse judge that the state Department of Transportation must complete additional environmental studies before the viaduct can be removed. The five judges were unanimous in the decision.

State Supreme Court Justice Gerard Neri ruled in February 2023 that the DOT must study factors including the traffic impact of Micron Technology's planned microchip complex. The appeals court overturned Neri's order.

[Alps]

↓bad news.

[The Ghostbuster]

It was inevitable that the viaduct would come down after the "Community Grid" alternative was chosen. Renew 81 for All is fighting a lost cause. Let's hope removing the viaduct doesn't make traffic congestion in the area worse.

[Plutonic Panda]

^^^ yeah, I have to applaud renew 81. They really tried and stuck with it.

↓bad news.

Agreed. I'm gonna say it again, and I'll keep beating this dead horse just like I will with the 710 tunnel in Los Angeles. Ideal scenario they build a tunnel or at least keep Land available for a portal down the line. in the meantime, they could have temporary uses for it like food truck parking or some kind of recreational site. And typical American fashion if tunnels are too much to bear then they can just rebuild the viaduct.

But unsurprisingly, they chose the worst possible option.

[sprjus4]

But unsurprisingly, they chose the worst possible option.

It's New York, so I expect no less.

[Henry]

I see downtown Syracuse becoming a traffic nightmare, now that I-81 will be no more. But on the flip side, I'm excited to see the new mile-based exits being implemented on the reworked routing.

[Rothman]

Actually, I've heard that the City of Syracuse requesting Almond St to go down to one lane in each direction amongst other things at this very late point (maybe changing where ramps from BL-81 SB come into downtown).  I don't think NYSDOT will go that far on this one, especially with the FEIS set in stone.

So, for those people predicting doom and gloom, it'll be interesting to see what happens.

And Panda, that dead horse of the tunnel is stinking to high heaven.  Even the Save 81 or Renew 81 people or whoever else is opposed to tearing down the viaduct would shake their heads at you and dismiss you out of hand at this point.

(personal opinion emphasized)

[Plutonic Panda]

And Panda, that dead horse of the tunnel is stinking to high heaven.  Even the Save 81 or Renew 81 people or whoever else is opposed to tearing down the viaduct would shake their heads at you and dismiss you out of hand at this point.

(personal opinion emphasized)

Yeah yeah this is the US after all where new tunnels are a no no.

Oh and god forbid we just put aside some ROW. THE HORROR! Yeah let's not take forward thought looking towards the future credible. Checks out.

[kalvado]

And Panda, that dead horse of the tunnel is stinking to high heaven.  Even the Save 81 or Renew 81 people or whoever else is opposed to tearing down the viaduct would shake their heads at you and dismiss you out of hand at this point.

(personal opinion emphasized)

Yeah yeah this is the US after all where new tunnels are a no no.

Oh and god forbid we just put aside some ROW. THE HORROR! Yeah let's not take forward thought looking towards the future credible. Checks out.

More like it's US, where general public doesn't understand concepts like "water table is too high" or "technical report is just 50 pages, lok it through before bed"

[Rothman]

And Panda, that dead horse of the tunnel is stinking to high heaven.  Even the Save 81 or Renew 81 people or whoever else is opposed to tearing down the viaduct would shake their heads at you and dismiss you out of hand at this point.

(personal opinion emphasized)

Yeah yeah this is the US after all where new tunnels are a no no.

Oh and god forbid we just put aside some ROW. THE HORROR! Yeah let's not take forward thought looking towards the future credible. Checks out.

More like it's US, where general public doesn't understand concepts like "water table is too high" or "technical report is just 50 pages, lok it through before bed"

Or, "Buying up that much ROW in downtown Syracuse is outright idiotic due to the businesses and other opportunities that would need to be taken."

I mean, I suspect the economic benefits of the Grid have been exaggerated (i.e., no, there won't be that much more land made available along Almond St), but blowing out enough land for the tunnel, access points and portals would be truly disastrous for the city.  Everyone, but a slim minority of people ignorant of the true effects a tunnel would have on Syracuse, has come to an agreement on this point.

People also still seem to minimizing the positive effect of the reconstruction of I-690 and the reconfiguration of the downtown interchanges.  I really don't see Almond St becoming a traffic nightmare at the end.  Rather, as discussed extensively by this point, people will be grumbling about taking the longer route around the new I-81, going from south to west and vice versa.

I mean, Syracuse has a small rush hour as is.  It's not like that's going to change, even with Micron coming.

[Bobby5280]

Syracuse isn't all that big of a city. Its population growth trend has been fairly stagnant for the past 40 years. Upstate NY is beautiful in the summer, but wow, winter really sucks ass there. It's not exactly a place where spending billions of dollars on an urban tunnel would be a good idea.

[Alps]

The tunnel is a fantastic option, but too costly to be considered. But ideally, all urban freeways would be emtunnelled so the city is unemfreewayed.

[kalvado]

The tunnel is a fantastic option, but too costly to be considered. But ideally, all urban freeways would be emtunnelled so the city is unemfreewayed.

We talked a lot about it up thread. Too difficult in Syracuse soil. Not everything is a rock like Manhattan...

[roadman65]

The tunnel is a fantastic option, but too costly to be considered. But ideally, all urban freeways would be emtunnelled so the city is unemfreewayed.

We talked a lot about it up thread. Too difficult in Syracuse soil. Not everything is a rock like Manhattan...

What's ideal and what's real are two different things.