I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange

[ekt8750]

However, as I think I've mentioned before, heading northbound, traffic from Baltimore/Washington heading towards New Jersey/New York is directed onto I-295 through the Wilmington area.



Southbound signage is, of course, problematic as not only are drivers directed towards Wilmington but also towards the Delaware Memorial Bridge, which I'm sure plenty of drivers cannot identify.

That final set of signs really needs replacing with an APL with "Philadelphia" alone on the left, and "New York" alone on the right.

For the approach signage, yes; but at this location, no because there isn't a shared lane anymore. 

There is at the 95-495 split though and there should be an APL there.

An aerial view shows that gantry slightly beyond where the lane splits in two.  If such were placed prior to the split, then yes.[/url]

I agree, here at this location the signage is fine. The ones after the 295 split though would be better served with APLs. I believe they still have dancing arrow signs on that stretch.

[Beltway]

The smart traffic centers in the associated states need to get together and "just do it".

I always joked that NJDOT and NJTA might as well have been on different planets.  There seemed to be no connection between those two agencies, and they're in the same state!
If there's a significant issue in another state, NJDOT often reports it on their signs.  It's common for something to be mentioned on I-295 if the Schuylkill Expressway is closed, for example.  But for traffic time signs, there doesn't appear to be any connection between the adjoining states, and nothing indicates that's going to change anytime soon.  There's probably an issue with priorities and funding as well, and providing travel times to a point 80 miles away in another state isn't high on either list.

But the completion of I-95 is a major change in the corridor of NJTP/I-295/I-95.

There was no real need for that before.

[Roadsguy]

I always joked that NJDOT and NJTA might as well have been on different planets.  There seemed to be no connection between those two agencies, and they're in the same state!

Even PennDOT and the PTC are more connected. PennDOT gives traffic data counts for PTC roads, though I'm not sure if they measure it themselves or get the data from the PTC. (Turnpike traffic counts tend to have interesting segment-segment discrepancies that make no sense.) NJDOT gives no traffic data counts from the NJTP or GSP (nor ACE I believe, though that isn't NJTA). I still haven't found NJTA traffic data from anywhere.

[PHLBOS]

I agree, here at this location the signage is fine. The ones after the 295 split though would be better served with APLs. I believe they still have dancing arrow signs on that stretch.

IIRC, the signs at those splits (I-95/295 & I-95/495 that you mentioned) predated the existence of APLs or at least DelDOT's use of them.  The approach signage for the I-95/295 split also uses dancing arrows for the shared lane as well.

[Beltway]

Even PennDOT and the PTC are more connected. PennDOT gives traffic data for PTC roads, though I'm not sure if they measure it themselves or get the data from the PTC. (Turnpike traffic counts tend to have interesting segment-segment discrepancies that make no sense.) NJDOT gives no traffic data from the NJTP or GSP (nor ACE I believe, though that isn't NJTA). I still haven't found NJTA traffic data from anywhere.

It really depends on the smart traffic centers, they are the source of the time estimate data. 

The questions would be, where are the smart traffic centers, how wide of a radius does each cover, how much automated sharing of data exists between the individual smart traffic centers, and does each state have at least one smart traffic center in the Delaware Valley region?

In this day and age there should be full coverage of the whole region from northern Delaware to the Trenton area.  But that would depend on each state having at least one smart traffic center and there being automated sharing of data between each.  For example, JerDOT could not force DelDOT to build a smart traffic center.

[bzakharin]

I always joked that NJDOT and NJTA might as well have been on different planets.  There seemed to be no connection between those two agencies, and they're in the same state!

Even PennDOT and the PTC are more connected. PennDOT gives traffic data for PTC roads, though I'm not sure if they measure it themselves or get the data from the PTC. (Turnpike traffic counts tend to have interesting segment-segment discrepancies that make no sense.) NJDOT gives no traffic data from the NJTP or GSP (nor ACE I believe, though that isn't NJTA). I still haven't found NJTA traffic data from anywhere.

This cannot be true. The NJ 511 service, both online and over the phone, provides info on NJDOT roads as well as the toll roads. I've seen plenty of warnings about issues on the Turnpike on I-295 and NJ 42 VMSs. The NJ Turnpike shows travel times to Wilmington both via Turnpike and I-295. NJ 42 provides travel times to points on the Atlantic City Expressway.

[Roadsguy]

I always joked that NJDOT and NJTA might as well have been on different planets.  There seemed to be no connection between those two agencies, and they're in the same state!

Even PennDOT and the PTC are more connected. PennDOT gives traffic data for PTC roads, though I'm not sure if they measure it themselves or get the data from the PTC. (Turnpike traffic counts tend to have interesting segment-segment discrepancies that make no sense.) NJDOT gives no traffic data from the NJTP or GSP (nor ACE I believe, though that isn't NJTA). I still haven't found NJTA traffic data from anywhere.

This cannot be true. The NJ 511 service, both online and over the phone, provides info on NJDOT roads as well as the toll roads. I've seen plenty of warnings about issues on the Turnpike on I-295 and NJ 42 VMSs. The NJ Turnpike shows travel times to Wilmington both via Turnpike and I-295. NJ 42 provides travel times to points on the Atlantic City Expressway.

My mistake. I meant traffic counts, i.e. AADT.

[jeffandnicole]

I always joked that NJDOT and NJTA might as well have been on different planets.  There seemed to be no connection between those two agencies, and they're in the same state!

Even PennDOT and the PTC are more connected. PennDOT gives traffic data for PTC roads, though I'm not sure if they measure it themselves or get the data from the PTC. (Turnpike traffic counts tend to have interesting segment-segment discrepancies that make no sense.) NJDOT gives no traffic data from the NJTP or GSP (nor ACE I believe, though that isn't NJTA). I still haven't found NJTA traffic data from anywhere.

This cannot be true. The NJ 511 service, both online and over the phone, provides info on NJDOT roads as well as the toll roads. I've seen plenty of warnings about issues on the Turnpike on I-295 and NJ 42 VMSs. The NJ Turnpike shows travel times to Wilmington both via Turnpike and I-295. NJ 42 provides travel times to points on the Atlantic City Expressway.

I should've emphasized the past tense of what I was saying.  They do seem to be in better communication now, including and up to having a centralized command center in the NJTA headquarters where ALL New Jersey transportation departments and agencies can meet during weather or other severe event issues.  It's not perfect, but much better than what it was during, say, the early 2000's and before.

[1995hoo]

Regarding people "following I-95," bear in mind a lot of people who use the I-95-->I-295 over the bridge-->NJTP route in fact think they're "following I-95," regardless of there having been a BGS there for at least the past 40 years ("at least" denoting that I'm 45 and there's been an I-95 sign for the left-hand route for as long as I can remember). I don't think the new ramps are going to make the slightest bit of difference for the vast majority of long-distance northbound travellers, with the possible exception of some people who might be making the trip for the first time. (Southbound, I don't know. I could maybe see some people noticing the new I-95 shield on the Exit 6 BGS, being surprised, and following it to see where it goes, although I daresay for the average driver that's likely to be a one-time mistake unlikely to be repeated!)

[jeffandnicole]

Based on the traffic I saw Friday for the mini-holiday weekend, it appeared to be congested as normal SB approaching Exit 4, and extremely heavy with slowdowns around Deptford, about 2-3 miles south of Interchange 3.

[famartin]

I think the number of people just following I-95 because of the signs are dwindling and will continue to dwindle as GPS followers continue to gain numbers.  Hell, I am perfectly fine navigating myself and I use it all the time even on routes I know well, if only as a check for congestion and to be able to quickly ascertain time to destination at a glance.  So, thru traffic will continue using I-295 and the southern Turnpike.

It does occur to me that if the Turnpike really wanted more people to stay for as long as possible, they would've built an interchange with Route 42 back in the 50s or 60s, back when it was relatively easy (i.e. far fewer environmental constraints). It would've been more expensive with the wetlands to fill, but I'm honestly surprised they never thought to themselves, "Hmm, lets encourage people to get on and off at Exit 3 by building an interchange with the main freeway heading out of Philly into NJ. It'll be expensive but we'll probably make more money that way in the end."  Of course, had that occurred, even with I-95's completion in its current form, it probably WOULD be faster to get to Philly via the turnpike/42 even now, versus I-95.

[jeffandnicole]

I think the number of people just following I-95 because of the signs are dwindling and will continue to dwindle as GPS followers continue to gain numbers.  Hell, I am perfectly fine navigating myself and I use it all the time even on routes I know well, if only as a check for congestion and to be able to quickly ascertain time to destination at a glance.  So, thru traffic will continue using I-295 and the southern Turnpike.

It does occur to me that if the Turnpike really wanted more people to stay for as long as possible, they would've built an interchange with Route 42 back in the 50s or 60s, back when it was relatively easy (i.e. far fewer environmental constraints). It would've been more expensive with the wetlands to fill, but I'm honestly surprised they never thought to themselves, "Hmm, lets encourage people to get on and off at Exit 3 by building an interchange with the main freeway heading out of Philly into NJ. It'll be expensive but we'll probably make more money that way in the end."  Of course, had that occurred, even with I-95's completion in its current form, it probably WOULD be faster to get to Philly via the turnpike/42 even now, versus I-95.

NJDOT built Rt. 42 in the late 1950s. Until then, Rt. 168 WAS the primary route to and from Philly and the shore. It had the hotels and the restaurants. It had the Howard Johnson's. It had everything everyone wanted. It made perfect sense to have Exit 3 where it was.

As the interstate system was built up and traffic patterns unfolded, it probably became more sensible to build a new interchange with Rt. 42. But who would build it? Who would pay for it? Those questions became hard to answer. The businesses on 168 don't want to lose a significant traffic feeder.  So what seems like an obvious fix...one many want...becomes much harder to undergo.  And the environmental hurdles we have today are another challange. It can be done...And hopefully with ETC only pay structures to reduce costs and land needed. And with any luck they'll seriously look at it when they eventually will need to widen the Turnpike between Interchanges 1 & 4.

[famartin]

I think the number of people just following I-95 because of the signs are dwindling and will continue to dwindle as GPS followers continue to gain numbers.  Hell, I am perfectly fine navigating myself and I use it all the time even on routes I know well, if only as a check for congestion and to be able to quickly ascertain time to destination at a glance.  So, thru traffic will continue using I-295 and the southern Turnpike.

It does occur to me that if the Turnpike really wanted more people to stay for as long as possible, they would've built an interchange with Route 42 back in the 50s or 60s, back when it was relatively easy (i.e. far fewer environmental constraints). It would've been more expensive with the wetlands to fill, but I'm honestly surprised they never thought to themselves, "Hmm, lets encourage people to get on and off at Exit 3 by building an interchange with the main freeway heading out of Philly into NJ. It'll be expensive but we'll probably make more money that way in the end."  Of course, had that occurred, even with I-95's completion in its current form, it probably WOULD be faster to get to Philly via the turnpike/42 even now, versus I-95.

NJDOT built Rt. 42 in the late 1950s. Until then, Rt. 168 WAS the primary route to and from Philly and the shore. It had the hotels and the restaurants. It had the Howard Johnson's. It had everything everyone wanted. It made perfect sense to have Exit 3 where it was.

As the interstate system was built up and traffic patterns unfolded, it probably became more sensible to build a new interchange with Rt. 42. But who would build it? Who would pay for it? Those questions became hard to answer. The businesses on 168 don't want to lose a significant traffic feeder.  So what seems like an obvious fix...one many want...becomes much harder to undergo.  And the environmental hurdles we have today are another challange. It can be done...And hopefully with ETC only pay structures to reduce costs and land needed. And with any luck they'll seriously look at it when they eventually will need to widen the Turnpike between Interchanges 1 & 4.

I'm just surprised they didn't have the foresight to realize most traffic would be moving to freeways, away from arterials.  In northern NJ, as various freeways were constructed, turnpike exits were realigned or rebuilt to accommodate them at various locations.  Its curious it somehow never happened at Route 42.

[jeffandnicole]

I think the number of people just following I-95 because of the signs are dwindling and will continue to dwindle as GPS followers continue to gain numbers.  Hell, I am perfectly fine navigating myself and I use it all the time even on routes I know well, if only as a check for congestion and to be able to quickly ascertain time to destination at a glance.  So, thru traffic will continue using I-295 and the southern Turnpike.

It does occur to me that if the Turnpike really wanted more people to stay for as long as possible, they would've built an interchange with Route 42 back in the 50s or 60s, back when it was relatively easy (i.e. far fewer environmental constraints). It would've been more expensive with the wetlands to fill, but I'm honestly surprised they never thought to themselves, "Hmm, lets encourage people to get on and off at Exit 3 by building an interchange with the main freeway heading out of Philly into NJ. It'll be expensive but we'll probably make more money that way in the end."  Of course, had that occurred, even with I-95's completion in its current form, it probably WOULD be faster to get to Philly via the turnpike/42 even now, versus I-95.

NJDOT built Rt. 42 in the late 1950s. Until then, Rt. 168 WAS the primary route to and from Philly and the shore. It had the hotels and the restaurants. It had the Howard Johnson's. It had everything everyone wanted. It made perfect sense to have Exit 3 where it was.

As the interstate system was built up and traffic patterns unfolded, it probably became more sensible to build a new interchange with Rt. 42. But who would build it? Who would pay for it? Those questions became hard to answer. The businesses on 168 don't want to lose a significant traffic feeder.  So what seems like an obvious fix...one many want...becomes much harder to undergo.  And the environmental hurdles we have today are another challange. It can be done...And hopefully with ETC only pay structures to reduce costs and land needed. And with any luck they'll seriously look at it when they eventually will need to widen the Turnpike between Interchanges 1 & 4.

I'm just surprised they didn't have the foresight to realize most traffic would be moving to freeways, away from arterials.  In northern NJ, as various freeways were constructed, turnpike exits were realigned or rebuilt to accommodate them at various locations.  Its curious it somehow never happened at Route 42.

The NJ State Library has plenty of interesting documents related to highways built long ago. I'd bet the answer lies somewhere there. I'll have to take a walk down someday to see if I can find out something.

As for foresight, I think I-76 was originally built 2 or 3 lanes wide. It was quickly widened to 5-6 lanes wide. The early traffic estimates continously were blown out of the water all over the place.

[Beltway]

It does occur to me that if the Turnpike really wanted more people to stay for as long as possible, they would've built an interchange with Route 42 back in the 50s or 60s, back when it was relatively easy (i.e. far fewer environmental constraints). It would've been more expensive with the wetlands to fill, but I'm honestly surprised they never thought to themselves, "Hmm, lets encourage people to get on and off at Exit 3 by building an interchange with the main freeway heading out of Philly into NJ. It'll be expensive but we'll probably make more money that way in the end."  Of course, had that occurred, even with I-95's completion in its current form, it probably WOULD be faster to get to Philly via the turnpike/42 even now, versus I-95.

From someone who lives south of New Jersey, the foolishness of not being able to connect directly between the Turnpike and NJ-42/AC Expressway to utilize the Expressway to the coast.  The NJ-42/AC Expressway was completed by 1965 and that should have been a no-brainer.

[02 Park Ave]

Route 42 was only two lanes in each direction, south of I-295, until 1965.  Likewise, I-295, north of NJ42, wasn't widened to three lanes each direction until the 1970's.

[SignBridge]

From what J&N said above about the businesses on Rt.168 back in earlier times, it sounds like another Breezewood type situation. Interchange not built at Rt. 42 so as not to take customers away from the businesses on Rt.168.

[ipeters61]

From what J&N said above about the businesses on Rt.168 back in earlier times, it sounds like another Breezewood type situation. Interchange not built at Rt. 42 so as not to take customers away from the businesses on Rt.168.

Also doesn't help now that the area around that interchange is very congested and developed (even without traffic connecting between the NJ Turnpike and Philadelphia/I-76/NJ-42).

Breezewood is in the middle of nowhere, so there's no excuse there. 

[Beltway]

From what J&N said above about the businesses on Rt.168 back in earlier times, it sounds like another Breezewood type situation. Interchange not built at Rt. 42 so as not to take customers away from the businesses on Rt.168.

But it there are no other freeway junctions omitted on the Turnpike, so I don't know that I would conclude that. 

There is the I-295/Turnpike extension crossing, but that is a special situation where I-295 and the mainline Turnpike are very close, to where it would complicate building an interchange.  Other than the northwest quadrant, the other quadrants have little or no need for connections.

[jeffandnicole]

It does occur to me that if the Turnpike really wanted more people to stay for as long as possible, they would've built an interchange with Route 42 back in the 50s or 60s, back when it was relatively easy (i.e. far fewer environmental constraints). It would've been more expensive with the wetlands to fill, but I'm honestly surprised they never thought to themselves, "Hmm, lets encourage people to get on and off at Exit 3 by building an interchange with the main freeway heading out of Philly into NJ. It'll be expensive but we'll probably make more money that way in the end."  Of course, had that occurred, even with I-95's completion in its current form, it probably WOULD be faster to get to Philly via the turnpike/42 even now, versus I-95.

From someone who lives south of New Jersey, the foolishness of not being able to connect directly between the Turnpike and NJ-42/AC Expressway to utilize the Expressway to the coast.  The NJ-42/AC Expressway was completed by 1965 and that should have been a no-brainer.

While most people don't think of it, 95 to 76 in Philly then to 42 is all freeway.

When there's no congestion, compared to taking the NJ Turnpike to Exit 3 to AC it takes 1 additional minute and 4 extra miles longer to use 95 and 495 from DE into PA, then 76 to 42 if you must have an all freeway route. If you take I-295 in NJ to 76 West and make a u-turn at Market Street (Exit 1C), it's 1 extra mile and the same amount of time as it is to take the NJ Turnpike.

[jeffandnicole]

From what J&N said above about the businesses on Rt.168 back in earlier times, it sounds like another Breezewood type situation. Interchange not built at Rt. 42 so as not to take customers away from the businesses on Rt.168.

Also doesn't help now that the area around that interchange is very congested and developed (even without traffic connecting between the NJ Turnpike and Philadelphia/I-76/NJ-42).

Breezewood is in the middle of nowhere, so there's no excuse there. 

Also, THE Breezewood is I-70, an Interstate highway. NJ 168 is no highway.

[Beltway]

From someone who lives south of New Jersey, the foolishness of not being able to connect directly between the Turnpike and NJ-42/AC Expressway to utilize the Expressway to the coast.  The NJ-42/AC Expressway was completed by 1965 and that should have been a no-brainer.

While most people don't think of it, 95 to 76 in Philly then to 42 is all freeway.

Of course they don't.  It is considerably longer and goes thru highly urbanized areas.  The Turnpike is an outer bypass of the area and in any case I-95 wasn't complete until 1985.  I was responding to a comment about including it in the initial construction of NJ-42.

When there's no congestion, compared to taking the NJ Turnpike to Exit 3 to AC it takes 1 additional minute and 4 extra miles longer to use 95 and 495 from DE into PA, then 76 to 42 if you must have an all freeway route. If you take I-295 in NJ to 76 West and make a u-turn at Market Street (Exit 1C), it's 1 extra mile and the same amount of time as it is to take the NJ Turnpike.

A left turn onto a 2-lane street and then a loop.  Could only carry very low volumes of freeway traffic before congesting.

Westerly I-295 doesn't connect with southerly NJ-42, either.  So I-295 can't take the place of the missing Turnpike interchange.

[roadman65]

Most likely if the NJ 42 freeway was built before or during the Turnpike Construction, it would have interchanged there and no current Exit 3.

However, we must live with the consequences of not having a freeway to freeway direct connection and the fact the NJ Turnpike will never be connected to Downtown (or Center City as PA does not like to use that word) Philadelphia.  NJ 90 will never go beyond its current terminus, so the only way to get a freeway spur or connection would be to all the area residents to raise hell, which they won't.  I see NJ 55 completion a better chance than an Exit 2A on the NJ Turnpike.  Plus adding an interchange there would effect the flow on NJ 42 anyhow being way to close to NJ 55 as that interchange is practically up the NJ Turnpike/ Route 42 crossing.  Too much land needed for braiding and adding extra ramps which they do not have there.

[NE2]

Westerly I-295 doesn't connect with southerly NJ-42, either.

It might: http://www.rdvsystems.com/portfolio/i295-missing-moves-nj/

[Beltway]

Westerly I-295 doesn't connect with southerly NJ-42, either.

It might: http://www.rdvsystems.com/portfolio/i295-missing-moves-nj/

I was aware of that project.  Any scheduled date yet to begin construction?