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Author Topic: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange  (Read 433595 times)

bluecountry

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2875 on: May 29, 2021, 08:49:50 PM »

It definitely should be done and shouldn't be that hard.
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jp the roadgeek

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2876 on: May 29, 2021, 09:12:53 PM »

95 North signage is fine.  My 95 south signage would have utilized the PATP logo next to the 276 shield and added Harrisburg as the 2nd control.
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famartin

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2877 on: July 16, 2021, 12:01:06 AM »

There are few things PTC does better than NJTA, but this is one of those few things. I wish NJTA would’ve done it this way. Oh well.
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PHLBOS

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2878 on: July 17, 2021, 08:44:18 AM »

There are few things PTC does better than NJTA, but this is one of those few things. I wish NJTA would’ve done it this way. Oh well.

Guess on my part, and Alps can verify/confirm; NJTA (or at least their specs) doesn't allow the displaying of toll-road shields for other independent toll facilities on their main/primary signage.  It certainly would explain why there's no PA Turnpike keystone shield on any NJTA-spec signage. 
To further prove the above-point; this NJDOT-spec'd sign along US 130 approaching the I-95 interchange features a PA Turnpike shield on it.  Obviously, NJDOT (as well as the PTC & PennDOT) has no such prohibition.

Such would also explain why the recent GSP's interchange with the ACX features no ACX shields on the signs whereas the prior-generation signage did; when the GSP was an NJHA facility.  The NJHA merged into the NJTA circa 2003.

Conversely, prior I-95/NJTP signage for Exit 11 featured no GSP shield but the new ones do.  The former predated the GSP becoming an NJTA run-facility.
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famartin

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2879 on: July 17, 2021, 11:37:01 AM »

There are few things PTC does better than NJTA, but this is one of those few things. I wish NJTA would’ve done it this way. Oh well.

Guess on my part, and Alps can verify/confirm; NJTA (or at least their specs) doesn't allow the displaying of toll-road shields for other independent toll facilities on their main/primary signage.  It certainly would explain why there's no PA Turnpike keystone shield on any NJTA-spec signage. 
To further prove the above-point; this NJDOT-spec'd sign along US 130 approaching the I-95 interchange features a PA Turnpike shield on it.  Obviously, NJDOT (as well as the PTC & PennDOT) has no such prohibition.

Such would also explain why the recent GSP's interchange with the ACX features no ACX shields on the signs whereas the prior-generation signage did; when the GSP was an NJHA facility.  The NJHA merged into the NJTA circa 2003.

Conversely, prior I-95/NJTP signage for Exit 11 featured no GSP shield but the new ones do.  The former predated the GSP becoming an NJTA run-facility.

Your guess is the same as mine, but its only that. Confirmation would be nice, but yes, all the evidence seems to suggest the NJTA just simply won't use other authority blazers. I wonder if its a copyright thing or something.
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The Ghostbuster

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2880 on: July 17, 2021, 12:12:19 PM »

Is there a planned construction date for building the remaining ramps for the Interstate 95/Interstate 295/Interstate 276 interchange?
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SignBridge

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2881 on: July 17, 2021, 08:17:02 PM »

Possibly in our lifetime. But considering how long it took the State of Pa. to build the existing interchange, I wouldn't count on it happening very soon.
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jp the roadgeek

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2882 on: July 17, 2021, 08:49:19 PM »

There are few things PTC does better than NJTA, but this is one of those few things. I wish NJTA would’ve done it this way. Oh well.

Guess on my part, and Alps can verify/confirm; NJTA (or at least their specs) doesn't allow the displaying of toll-road shields for other independent toll facilities on their main/primary signage.  It certainly would explain why there's no PA Turnpike keystone shield on any NJTA-spec signage. 
To further prove the above-point; this NJDOT-spec'd sign along US 130 approaching the I-95 interchange features a PA Turnpike shield on it.  Obviously, NJDOT (as well as the PTC & PennDOT) has no such prohibition.

Such would also explain why the recent GSP's interchange with the ACX features no ACX shields on the signs whereas the prior-generation signage did; when the GSP was an NJHA facility.  The NJHA merged into the NJTA circa 2003.

Conversely, prior I-95/NJTP signage for Exit 11 featured no GSP shield but the new ones do.  The former predated the GSP becoming an NJTA run-facility.

Your guess is the same as mine, but its only that. Confirmation would be nice, but yes, all the evidence seems to suggest the NJTA just simply won't use other authority blazers. I wonder if its a copyright thing or something.
Strange if it were.  I remember seeing an NJTP trailblazer on MD 295 in Baltimore City just before the exit to I-95 North.  NYTA does use Mass Pike shields at Exit 24, plus there used to be a TO with a Mass Pike shield just before the 95/395 split in CT.
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famartin

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2883 on: July 17, 2021, 09:39:01 PM »

There are few things PTC does better than NJTA, but this is one of those few things. I wish NJTA would’ve done it this way. Oh well.

Guess on my part, and Alps can verify/confirm; NJTA (or at least their specs) doesn't allow the displaying of toll-road shields for other independent toll facilities on their main/primary signage.  It certainly would explain why there's no PA Turnpike keystone shield on any NJTA-spec signage. 
To further prove the above-point; this NJDOT-spec'd sign along US 130 approaching the I-95 interchange features a PA Turnpike shield on it.  Obviously, NJDOT (as well as the PTC & PennDOT) has no such prohibition.

Such would also explain why the recent GSP's interchange with the ACX features no ACX shields on the signs whereas the prior-generation signage did; when the GSP was an NJHA facility.  The NJHA merged into the NJTA circa 2003.

Conversely, prior I-95/NJTP signage for Exit 11 featured no GSP shield but the new ones do.  The former predated the GSP becoming an NJTA run-facility.

Your guess is the same as mine, but its only that. Confirmation would be nice, but yes, all the evidence seems to suggest the NJTA just simply won't use other authority blazers. I wonder if its a copyright thing or something.
Strange if it were.  I remember seeing an NJTP trailblazer on MD 295 in Baltimore City just before the exit to I-95 North.  NYTA does use Mass Pike shields at Exit 24, plus there used to be a TO with a Mass Pike shield just before the 95/395 split in CT.
Yes, other agencies use the NJTP trailblazer, including (as shown) the PTC, and DelDOT/DRBA. But NJTA doesn't use others.
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74/171FAN

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2884 on: July 17, 2021, 10:12:06 PM »

Is there a planned construction date for building the remaining ramps for the Interstate 95/Interstate 295/Interstate 276 interchange?

We talked about this at the post-meet ballgame.  My basic thoughts are that PA 43 and PA 576 are higher priority for the PTC plus reconstruction of the existing PA Turnpike.
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famartin

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2885 on: July 17, 2021, 10:30:32 PM »

Is there a planned construction date for building the remaining ramps for the Interstate 95/Interstate 295/Interstate 276 interchange?

We talked about this at the post-meet ballgame.  My basic thoughts are that PA 43 and PA 576 are higher priority for the PTC plus reconstruction of the existing PA Turnpike.

The other moves are not nearly as important, since they don't connect any thru routes. Plus, relatively low numbers of traffic are trying to go from I-95 SB to I-295 EB or from I-276 EB to I-95 SB, and it will probably always be faster to use US 1 if your goal is I-276 EB to I-295 EB, or I-295 WB to I-276 WB.

I suspect PTC knew that in advance and planned accordingly to just "sit" on the rest of this for as long as they can. Only reason it was even planned was because it was legislated.
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Alps

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2886 on: July 18, 2021, 01:39:28 PM »

There are few things PTC does better than NJTA, but this is one of those few things. I wish NJTA would’ve done it this way. Oh well.

Guess on my part, and Alps can verify/confirm; NJTA (or at least their specs) doesn't allow the displaying of toll-road shields for other independent toll facilities on their main/primary signage.  It certainly would explain why there's no PA Turnpike keystone shield on any NJTA-spec signage. 
To further prove the above-point; this NJDOT-spec'd sign along US 130 approaching the I-95 interchange features a PA Turnpike shield on it.  Obviously, NJDOT (as well as the PTC & PennDOT) has no such prohibition.

Such would also explain why the recent GSP's interchange with the ACX features no ACX shields on the signs whereas the prior-generation signage did; when the GSP was an NJHA facility.  The NJHA merged into the NJTA circa 2003.

Conversely, prior I-95/NJTP signage for Exit 11 featured no GSP shield but the new ones do.  The former predated the GSP becoming an NJTA run-facility.
I can't. I haven't designed signs for them, so I have never run into a situation where I would learn the answer.

jp the roadgeek

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2887 on: July 18, 2021, 04:59:52 PM »

Here are some I designed in my collection.  These use NJTP mileage for the mileage based exits (the NJTP thru route would be numbered using I-95 mileage).  The one from the Thruway uses I-87 mileage.

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famartin

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2888 on: July 18, 2021, 05:32:30 PM »

Here are some I designed in my collection.  These use NJTP mileage for the mileage based exits (the NJTP thru route would be numbered using I-95 mileage).  The one from the Thruway uses I-87 mileage.



Shouldn't there be a northbound control city on exit 91? Those are both south. Right now the parkway uses Paterson and Newark, I believe.

Also, since the PIP exit is actually beyond NJTA jurisdiction (its PANYNJ there), good luck getting them to use NJTA mileage.
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jp the roadgeek

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2889 on: July 18, 2021, 06:05:53 PM »

I also have a set with I-95 mileage.  For continuity’s sake, I would just assume keep a consistent system of exit numbers on I-95 up to the GWB rather than jump down from 112 to 72 between Route 3 and US 46 if you went with NJTP mileage.  Yes, there would be a jump down from 51 to 7 Northbound between current Exits 6 and 7 on the mainline if you used I-95 mileage for exits north of there, but at least SB would have the mainline be Exit 6 (happens to work out nicely) so you’re “warned” that you’re no longer on I-95 before the jump to 44 for current Exit 5.

Most traffic uses that exit to go southbound on the parkway when exiting from the NJTP southbound, hence my two longer distance destinations.  For northbound signage, I use Woodbridge and Perth Amboy. I use a similar convention for current Exit 10 (287/440): Morristown and Staten Island NB, Piscataway and Perth Amboy SB
« Last Edit: July 18, 2021, 06:11:10 PM by jp the roadgeek »
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famartin

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2890 on: July 18, 2021, 06:57:07 PM »

I also have a set with I-95 mileage.  For continuity’s sake, I would just assume keep a consistent system of exit numbers on I-95 up to the GWB rather than jump down from 112 to 72 between Route 3 and US 46 if you went with NJTP mileage.  Yes, there would be a jump down from 51 to 7 Northbound between current Exits 6 and 7 on the mainline if you used I-95 mileage for exits north of there, but at least SB would have the mainline be Exit 6 (happens to work out nicely) so you’re “warned” that you’re no longer on I-95 before the jump to 44 for current Exit 5.

Most traffic uses that exit to go southbound on the parkway when exiting from the NJTP southbound, hence my two longer distance destinations.  For northbound signage, I use Woodbridge and Perth Amboy. I use a similar convention for current Exit 10 (287/440): Morristown and Staten Island NB, Piscataway and Perth Amboy SB

It depends, and maybe there's been a change in patterns, but when I was a kid, we'd routinely take the Turnpike north to the Parkway north to the Thruway north. So, not sure avoiding the northbound parkway control cities that are further along would be relevant. NJTA doesn't like altering signage depending on direction (otherwise, they'd not use Trenton on Exit 7 SB or Exit 7A NB).
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paul02474

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2891 on: July 18, 2021, 08:39:24 PM »

Here are some I designed in my collection.  These use NJTP mileage for the mileage based exits (the NJTP thru route would be numbered using I-95 mileage).  The one from the Thruway uses I-87 mileage.



Shouldn't there be a northbound control city on exit 91? Those are both south. Right now the parkway uses Paterson and Newark, I believe.

Also, since the PIP exit is actually beyond NJTA jurisdiction (its PANYNJ there), good luck getting them to use NJTA mileage.

Nice, but I would quarrel with the New City NY control city for the PIP. The obvious choice is Bear Mountain. Nanuet is marginally acceptable, but still unBEARable.
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PHLBOS

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2892 on: July 21, 2021, 09:37:22 PM »

There are few things PTC does better than NJTA, but this is one of those few things. I wish NJTA would’ve done it this way. Oh well.

Guess on my part, and Alps can verify/confirm; NJTA (or at least their specs) doesn't allow the displaying of toll-road shields for other independent toll facilities on their main/primary signage.  It certainly would explain why there's no PA Turnpike keystone shield on any NJTA-spec signage. 
To further prove the above-point; this NJDOT-spec'd sign along US 130 approaching the I-95 interchange features a PA Turnpike shield on it.  Obviously, NJDOT (as well as the PTC & PennDOT) has no such prohibition.

Such would also explain why the recent GSP's interchange with the ACX features no ACX shields on the signs whereas the prior-generation signage did; when the GSP was an NJHA facility.  The NJHA merged into the NJTA circa 2003.

Conversely, prior I-95/NJTP signage for Exit 11 featured no GSP shield but the new ones do.  The former predated the GSP becoming an NJTA run-facility.

Your guess is the same as mine, but its only that. Confirmation would be nice, but yes, all the evidence seems to suggest the NJTA just simply won't use other authority blazers. I wonder if its a copyright thing or something.
Another guess on my part, and such might be an old regulation standard that nobody since reviewed, displaying another agency's shield on their (NJTA's) signs would give the perception of advertising.

True story: when I worked on the National Park Service (NPS) plans that redeveloped 2 of the blocks north of Independence Hall in Philadelphia many years ago; the direction the consulting firms received was to not include the listing of their firm(s) on the plan title blocks, which would show on every sheet the firm(s) were responsible for, but only list it on the second or third plan sheet from the top.  I was told by the lead architect firm involved with the project; that the NPS viewed the practice of placing firm(s) names on multiple plan sheets was, in NPS' eyes, a form of advertising.

Again, speculation; maybe the NJTA had a similar sentiment that the NPS did. 
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famartin

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2893 on: July 21, 2021, 10:29:32 PM »

There are few things PTC does better than NJTA, but this is one of those few things. I wish NJTA would’ve done it this way. Oh well.

Guess on my part, and Alps can verify/confirm; NJTA (or at least their specs) doesn't allow the displaying of toll-road shields for other independent toll facilities on their main/primary signage.  It certainly would explain why there's no PA Turnpike keystone shield on any NJTA-spec signage. 
To further prove the above-point; this NJDOT-spec'd sign along US 130 approaching the I-95 interchange features a PA Turnpike shield on it.  Obviously, NJDOT (as well as the PTC & PennDOT) has no such prohibition.

Such would also explain why the recent GSP's interchange with the ACX features no ACX shields on the signs whereas the prior-generation signage did; when the GSP was an NJHA facility.  The NJHA merged into the NJTA circa 2003.

Conversely, prior I-95/NJTP signage for Exit 11 featured no GSP shield but the new ones do.  The former predated the GSP becoming an NJTA run-facility.

Your guess is the same as mine, but its only that. Confirmation would be nice, but yes, all the evidence seems to suggest the NJTA just simply won't use other authority blazers. I wonder if its a copyright thing or something.
Another guess on my part, and such might be an old regulation standard that nobody since reviewed, displaying another agency's shield on their (NJTA's) signs would give the perception of advertising.

True story: when I worked on the National Park Service (NPS) plans that redeveloped 2 of the blocks north of Independence Hall in Philadelphia many years ago; the direction the consulting firms received was to not include the listing of their firm(s) on the plan title blocks, which would show on every sheet the firm(s) were responsible for, but only list it on the second or third plan sheet from the top.  I was told by the lead architect firm involved with the project; that the NPS viewed the practice of placing firm(s) names on multiple plan sheets was, in NPS' eyes, a form of advertising.

Again, speculation; maybe the NJTA had a similar sentiment that the NPS did.

Possible. Just surprising given they are essentially partner agencies (since they share the bridge).
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jeffandnicole

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2894 on: July 21, 2021, 11:14:09 PM »

There are few things PTC does better than NJTA, but this is one of those few things. I wish NJTA would’ve done it this way. Oh well.

Guess on my part, and Alps can verify/confirm; NJTA (or at least their specs) doesn't allow the displaying of toll-road shields for other independent toll facilities on their main/primary signage.  It certainly would explain why there's no PA Turnpike keystone shield on any NJTA-spec signage. 
To further prove the above-point; this NJDOT-spec'd sign along US 130 approaching the I-95 interchange features a PA Turnpike shield on it.  Obviously, NJDOT (as well as the PTC & PennDOT) has no such prohibition.

Such would also explain why the recent GSP's interchange with the ACX features no ACX shields on the signs whereas the prior-generation signage did; when the GSP was an NJHA facility.  The NJHA merged into the NJTA circa 2003.

Conversely, prior I-95/NJTP signage for Exit 11 featured no GSP shield but the new ones do.  The former predated the GSP becoming an NJTA run-facility.

Your guess is the same as mine, but its only that. Confirmation would be nice, but yes, all the evidence seems to suggest the NJTA just simply won't use other authority blazers. I wonder if its a copyright thing or something.
Another guess on my part, and such might be an old regulation standard that nobody since reviewed, displaying another agency's shield on their (NJTA's) signs would give the perception of advertising.

True story: when I worked on the National Park Service (NPS) plans that redeveloped 2 of the blocks north of Independence Hall in Philadelphia many years ago; the direction the consulting firms received was to not include the listing of their firm(s) on the plan title blocks, which would show on every sheet the firm(s) were responsible for, but only list it on the second or third plan sheet from the top.  I was told by the lead architect firm involved with the project; that the NPS viewed the practice of placing firm(s) names on multiple plan sheets was, in NPS' eyes, a form of advertising.

Again, speculation; maybe the NJTA had a similar sentiment that the NPS did.

Possible. Just surprising given they are essentially partner agencies (since they share the bridge).

Considering it advertising may be a little far fetched, being that the NJ Turnpike lists "Penn Turnpike" as a control city on their signage.

Remember: The NJ Turnpike shield is THE route "number" for about half the Turnpike. The PA Turnpike mainline has regular Interstate route numbers across its entire length.

The NJ Turnpike is also a much more recognized highway shield than most other toll road shields.
Most people probably aren't familiar with the Penna Turnpike keystone shield. If we were to look at Delaware, they have all but retired the Delaware Turnpike shield and just solely use the I-95 shield.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2021, 11:16:17 PM by jeffandnicole »
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PHLBOS

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2895 on: July 21, 2021, 11:33:05 PM »

Remember: The NJ Turnpike shield is THE route "number" for about half the Turnpike. The PA Turnpike mainline has regular Interstate route numbers across its entire length.

The NJ Turnpike is also a much more recognized highway shield than most other toll road shields.
Most people probably aren't familiar with the Penna Turnpike keystone shield. If we were to look at Delaware, they have all but retired the Delaware Turnpike shield and just solely use the I-95 shield.
While true, it's worth noting that both the NJTP & PATP shields long predate the Interstate shield & related route numbers.  Additionally, the PA Turnpike is at least a decade older than the NJ Turnpike.
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famartin

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2896 on: July 21, 2021, 11:33:57 PM »

Considering it advertising may be a little far fetched, being that the NJ Turnpike lists "Penn Turnpike" as a control city on their signage.

Remember: The NJ Turnpike shield is THE route "number" for about half the Turnpike. The PA Turnpike mainline has regular Interstate route numbers across its entire length.

The NJ Turnpike is also a much more recognized highway shield than most other toll road shields.
Most people probably aren't familiar with the Penna Turnpike keystone shield. If we were to look at Delaware, they have all but retired the Delaware Turnpike shield and just solely use the I-95 shield.

We’ve debated this before I’m sure, but if you aren’t from the area, neither is familiar. You can’t read either easily from a BGS at highway speed. However, Pennsylvanians are very familiar with the PT blazer, just as New Jerseyans are familiar with the NJT one. The only difference is that one carries a lot more traffic.

Doesn’t matter if you are from out of the area… all you’ll recognize in that case is the interstate shield, or the written words.
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Alps

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Re: I-95/Penna Turnpike Interchange
« Reply #2897 on: July 22, 2021, 12:54:02 AM »

Considering it advertising may be a little far fetched, being that the NJ Turnpike lists "Penn Turnpike" as a control city on their signage.

Remember: The NJ Turnpike shield is THE route "number" for about half the Turnpike. The PA Turnpike mainline has regular Interstate route numbers across its entire length.

The NJ Turnpike is also a much more recognized highway shield than most other toll road shields.
Most people probably aren't familiar with the Penna Turnpike keystone shield. If we were to look at Delaware, they have all but retired the Delaware Turnpike shield and just solely use the I-95 shield.

We’ve debated this before I’m sure, but if you aren’t from the area, neither is familiar. You can’t read either easily from a BGS at highway speed. However, Pennsylvanians are very familiar with the PT blazer, just as New Jerseyans are familiar with the NJT one. The only difference is that one carries a lot more traffic.

Doesn’t matter if you are from out of the area… all you’ll recognize in that case is the interstate shield, or the written words.
The issue of agency shields has never even come up in my presence, so don't go creating too many conspiracy theories about what they want or don't want to do...

 


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