New York State Thruway

[qguy]

The Peter J. Camiel Service Plaza was originally named Brandywine (I had long wondered)

Should've asked some of us old heads around here could've told ya. 
I believe the formal name is "Peter J. Camiel Service Plaza at Brandywine."

There is the Camiel Curve on the Pottstown Expressway.

The story behind that curve is interesting. US 422 (Pottstown Expwy) in that area was planned for a straighter alignment to the northwest from the Schuylkill River and Trooper Road interchange, but Peter J. Camiel lived in a mansion which was in the middle of the proposed alignment. His would've been one of the displaced residences had the highway been built as planned. Of course, with the amount of influence Camiel wielded, PennDOT designed an alternate alignment that curved way out of the way. PennDOT couldn't move the alignment just slightly because of the nearby St. Gabriel's Hall, a residential drug and alcohol treatment center for teen boys.

Even if the initial alignment were constructed, there would've been a curve in order to avoid the Audubon Center just to the north but it wouldn't have been nearly as pronounced. The adopted alignment partially used a railroad ROW. The Schuylkill River Trail also runs along that railroad ROW.

Years later, I became acquainted with the man who currently resides in Camiel's mansion. He told me that when he purchased the house, he had to have every room either cleaned or repainted because of the layers of brown nicotine buildup on the walls and ceilings. Camiel was a heavy smoker. Although extremely wealthy, the current resident is one of the friendliest people you'd care to meet.

[02 Park Ave]

The Thruway needs an extra lane, in each direction, from the Tappan Zee Bridge to the Northway.

[Rothman]

That's excessive.  Perhaps as far north as the exit north of I-84, though.

Of course, prohibitively expensive, especially due to terrain downstate.

[kalvado]

There is a need for an extra lane on a ramp from Northway to Thruway plaza... But that is prohibitively difficult since that would require NYSDOT to actually do their job!

[Rothman]

Heh.  Once NYSDOT has enough funding to move beyond their inadequate preservation program, they and NYSTA will get to that.

[kalvado]

Heh.  Once NYSDOT has enough funding to move beyond their inadequate preservation program, they and NYSTA will get to that.

They did have enough money for that many roundabouts... So it is a matter of priorities.

[froggie]

As I recall, some of those roundabouts were funded from Federal grants and local sources.  It's also not all that hard to add a roundabout to a road if you have that road already ripped up for rehab work.

[kalvado]

As I recall, some of those roundabouts were funded from Federal grants and local sources.  It's also not all that hard to add a roundabout to a road if you have that road already ripped up for rehab work.

Since that is a spot of a regular backup, clean air fund is one of apparent funding sources for that location. Problem exists there for at least a decade, probably decadeS - and that is due to design mistake.  I doubt there was no opportunities over past 10-15 years.

[Rothman]

I believe NYSDOT has backed away from making the CMAQ argument for widening congested highways.  If I recall correctly, a widening project on Long Island some years ago used CMAQ and environmentalists are now prepared to object again if NYSDOT tries to pull the same stunt.

Also, I also believe CMAQ can now only be used in non-attainment areas (as of MAP-21 and updated definitions as of then) and NYSDOT Region 1 no longer qualifies (Chautauqua County and areas downstate are all that are left).

(personal opinion emphasized)

[kalvado]

I believe NYSDOT has backed away from making the CMAQ argument for widening congested highways.  If I recall correctly, a widening project on Long Island some years ago used CMAQ and environmentalists are now prepared to object again if NYSDOT tries to pull the same stunt.

Also, I also believe CMAQ can now only be used in non-attainment areas (as of MAP-21 and updated definitions as of then) and NYSDOT Region 1 no longer qualifies (Chautauqua County and areas downstate are all that are left).

(personal opinion emphasized)

Yet that was used for Washington-Fuller roundabout, literally 1000 feet away from the ramp in question. Ironically, relocation of state folks into downtown greatly reduced traffic through that spot right about the time project was completed.

[Rothman]

Washington-Fuller was before the change in non-attainment areas.

[kalvado]

Washington-Fuller was before the change in non-attainment areas.

But after second lane on 87->thruway ramp was closed..

[Rothman]

Not sure what you're arguing now.

I believe vdeane has discussed the history of the experiment with a second lane on that ramp elsewhere.

[kalvado]

Not sure what you're arguing now.

I believe vdeane has discussed the history of the experiment with a second lane on that ramp elsewhere.

There was no experiment, there was a design flaw which resulted in trucks loosing control and flipping when going at posted speed limit. Two lanes were reduced to one to slow things down, as well as some warning signs - throughput was naturally reduced due to these improvements. A poor BGS design is an icing on the cake.
My $20 say that when those BGS would be due for replacement, nobody at DOT would think about any changes, and as for ramp.. For past 15 years we're supposed to switch to AET quite soon, and then maybe if that happens someday... 

[vdeane]

I believe NYSDOT has backed away from making the CMAQ argument for widening congested highways.  If I recall correctly, a widening project on Long Island some years ago used CMAQ and environmentalists are now prepared to object again if NYSDOT tries to pull the same stunt.

Also, I also believe CMAQ can now only be used in non-attainment areas (as of MAP-21 and updated definitions as of then) and NYSDOT Region 1 no longer qualifies (Chautauqua County and areas downstate are all that are left).

(personal opinion emphasized)

Albany County is one of the ones eligible for CMAQ is the latest TAP/CMAQ solicitation.  NYC/Long Island can't apply for CMAQ, though.
https://www.dot.ny.gov/portal/page/portal/divisions/operating/opdm/local-programs-bureau/tap-cmaq/repository/Appendix-C-CMAQ-Eligibility-Requirements-2018.pdf

[Rothman]

I believe NYSDOT has backed away from making the CMAQ argument for widening congested highways.  If I recall correctly, a widening project on Long Island some years ago used CMAQ and environmentalists are now prepared to object again if NYSDOT tries to pull the same stunt.

Also, I also believe CMAQ can now only be used in non-attainment areas (as of MAP-21 and updated definitions as of then) and NYSDOT Region 1 no longer qualifies (Chautauqua County and areas downstate are all that are left).

(personal opinion emphasized)

Albany County is one of the ones eligible for CMAQ is the latest TAP/CMAQ solicitation.  NYC/Long Island can't apply for CMAQ, though.
https://www.dot.ny.gov/portal/page/portal/divisions/operating/opdm/local-programs-bureau/tap-cmaq/repository/Appendix-C-CMAQ-Eligibility-Requirements-2018.pdf

Can't open that .pdf on my phone, so I will go by what I know already:  The TAP/CMAQ solicitation is separate from NYSDOT's core CMAQ regional planning targets (of which Region 1 gets zilch in CMAQ due to the non-attainment area issue). 

Basically, NYSDOT holds back a paltry amount of CMAQ for distribution for specific projects through the solicitation; I'd have to go back and see how FHWA and NYSDOT arranged for justification for the projects in the solicitation for Albany to be eligible specifically for it.  Wonder if it was a matter of using up the 2.5 whatever percent particulate specific CMAQ, which is even more underused than the core fund.

[vdeane]

That would explain why Region 10/11 CMAQ isn't part of the solicitation.

[webny99]

The Thruway needs an extra lane, in each direction, from the Tappan Zee Bridge to the Northway.

I actually had in mind from Buffalo to Syracuse, with the segment underneath Rochester (Exit 45 to Exit 47) being the only potential exclusion. 

ODOT can six-lane 150 miles of I-71 from Cleveland to Columbus... I'm pretty sure asking the same of NYSTA, and on a tolled facility, with no bridge widenings needed, isn't all that unreasonable.

[webny99]

The thruway (or most of it anyways) needs six lanes

I know I've been fairly persistent in saying it, but every time I drive it (as I did Sunday from Buffalo to Rochester, and Monday from Rochester to Syracuse and back) I am more convinced that additional lanes are the solution to the disaster that exists. Sometimes, problems in navigating the Thruway are just the result of bad drivers and left lane campers, but during the May to September time period, especially on weekends, volumes are just too high to be sustained by four lanes and that's all there is to it.

[vdeane]

Oddly enough, I didn't have any issues with that stretch yesterday.  Traffic was heavy, but moving around 70-75.  Where I DID have problems, though was between exits 28 and 27.  There was some kind of crash involving a truck that blocked the right lane; even though traffic was light in the Mohawk Valley, between the Thruway's incompetence and rubbernecking, it was a parking lot for miles and took me an hour to get through what is normally a couple of minutes.  The advisory radio had the crash about three miles to the west of where it actually was, the VMS sign said "slow" traffic in what has to be the biggest understatement ever, and when they finally cleared it, the emergency vehicles kept a very slow speed, creating a rolling roadblock.  They really need to work out a way to speed up the amount of time it takes to clear crashes; I find it hard to believe that, in this day and age, we really need to keep the road blocked for hours while the police write a report.  Between cameras and computers, I would think it would be possible to take a bunch of pictures, clear the road, and reconvene somewhere out of the way to finish.

[thenetwork]

Oddly enough, I didn't have any issues with that stretch yesterday.  Traffic was heavy, but moving around 70-75.  Where I DID have problems, though was between exits 28 and 27.  There was some kind of crash involving a truck that blocked the right lane; even though traffic was light in the Mohawk Valley, between the Thruway's incompetence and rubbernecking, it was a parking lot for miles and took me an hour to get through what is normally a couple of minutes.  The advisory radio had the crash about three miles to the west of where it actually was, the VMS sign said "slow" traffic in what has to be the biggest understatement ever, and when they finally cleared it, the emergency vehicles kept a very slow speed, creating a rolling roadblock.  They really need to work out a way to speed up the amount of time it takes to clear crashes; I find it hard to believe that, in this day and age, we really need to keep the road blocked for hours while the police write a report.  Between cameras and computers, I would think it would be possible to take a bunch of pictures, clear the road, and reconvene somewhere out of the way to finish.

In Colorado it is standard practice to completely shut down a road if it's related to "police activity", or in the event of a crash or accident a fatality is involved.  In either event, it usually lasts around 2 hours minimum.

[ipeters61]

They really need to work out a way to speed up the amount of time it takes to clear crashes; I find it hard to believe that, in this day and age, we really need to keep the road blocked for hours while the police write a report.  Between cameras and computers, I would think it would be possible to take a bunch of pictures, clear the road, and reconvene somewhere out of the way to finish.

It's way more complicated than anything that a camera or computer can take care of quickly.  It has the potential to be a crime scene and as a result it takes the police time to clear a crash, not only dealing with getting statements (they are aware that people are trying to go on with their day as quickly as possible, but any statement taken at the scene is better since the crash is fresh in their head), getting people to ambulances, clearing vehicles, checking the roadway for any evidence, etc...it's a very complicated process.

It takes several weeks for the investigations of fatal crashes to complete, so the report is far from being written there.  Of course it's an inconvenience but, again, it's far from being anything that you can just handle with cameras and computers.

[webny99]

Oddly enough, I didn't have any issues with that stretch yesterday.  Traffic was heavy, but moving around 70-75.

You must have been through earlier. Roughly around 4PM there was an eastbound accident just west of the Warners Service area. Both directions were a parking lot for miles, eastbound roughly back to MP296, and westbound back to I-690. Westbound always has the heavier traffic after holidays as it is, and factor in (a) rubbernecking (b) holiday traffic, and (c) the State Fair, and westbound was as bad as eastbound if not worse, even though the accident was on the other side.

Otherwise, traffic was generally crawling; between I-690 and NY 14 we got up to speed exactly twice - for about a minute each time.

They really need to work out a way to speed up the amount of time it takes to clear crashes; I find it hard to believe that, in this day and age, we really need to keep the road blocked for hours while the police write a report.  Between cameras and computers, I would think it would be possible to take a bunch of pictures, clear the road, and reconvene somewhere out of the way to finish.

It's way more complicated than anything that a camera or computer can take care of quickly.  It has the potential to be a crime scene and as a result it takes the police time to clear a crash, not only dealing with getting statements (they are aware that people are trying to go on with their day as quickly as possible, but any statement taken at the scene is better since the crash is fresh in their head), getting people to ambulances, clearing vehicles, checking the roadway for any evidence, etc...it's a very complicated process.
It takes several weeks for the investigations of fatal crashes to complete, so the report is far from being written there.  Of course it's an inconvenience but, again, it's far from being anything that you can just handle with cameras and computers.

This has merit, but fatal crashes are relatively rare, and I'm pretty sure the accidents vdeane and myself refer to weren't fatal or crime-related. I can't even find a news article about the one I mentioned above.

Besides, the bigger problem is simply that closing a lane on a four lane highway that easily carries 50,000 VPD on a holiday is inevitably going to create a massive backup. If it was six-laned, (a) the accident may not have happened, especially if it was related to road-rage or aggressive driving, (b) two lanes could be maintained through the bottleneck, cutting delays in half, (c) vehicles backing up in three lanes instead of two would reduce the total queue length by about one-third, and (d) traffic would, on the whole, be further from the scene and less likely to rubberneck. All told, an accident goes from an incredible time-wasting disturbance to a minor hiccup in traffic flow, just by widening the road.

[Rothman]

On Monday afternoon and evening, there were no less than 5 accidents on the Thruway between Buffalo and Albany as I returned home from Ohio.  One was due to reckless driving (guy was speeding through the storm and ended up in a ditch).  The rest I saw were due to left lane blockers and tailgaters (rear-end accidents).

Not sure if another lane is needed.  It wasn't that congested, all things considered.  More due to just bad driving.

[Beltway]

The rest I saw were due to left lane blockers and tailgaters (rear-end accidents).

Did you witness the accident?  Did you talk to another witness?  Otherwise I don't see how you could determine that.  Not sure if even a police accident investigator could determine that without witnesses.