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Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered at https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=33904.0
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Author Topic: Things to do (CHM)  (Read 46893 times)

english si

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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #50 on: April 07, 2015, 11:47:29 AM »

I've just finished dealing with Italy's select named freeway system. I've removed a few routes (that could go back in in a Europe grab-bag freeway system that will be these, a couple of routes in Moscow and St Petersburg, some French D roads and a couple of other routes) and got it down to the RA roads (most of which have a number signed, so I just gave them all their numbers), the FI-PI-LI route (which perhaps could go too into future grab-bag - I've not really looked at it too much) and the Traforo routes that weren't in it, but ought to have been.

(I'm trying to think of a state highway that has a gap that's pretty clear in the field, but nothing's coming to mind from my own travels.)
In the UK, we have implied concurrencies, and most are signed with 'to' brackets (I might recheck these eventually and cut routes that aren't). Waiting in my massive update pile is the breaking of two lengthy implied concurrencies that I don't think count: the A5 between Elstree and Friars Wash and the A31 between Winchester and Ower.
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While it would be cool to have stuff like the Natchez Trace in the system, I'd be far more interested in, say, South Carolina State Highways.
Absolutely zero reason why those would be mutually exclusive!
« Last Edit: April 07, 2015, 11:55:40 AM by english si »
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oscar

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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #51 on: April 07, 2015, 12:35:54 PM »

If you need yet another interloper's opinion, I'm all for killing weird systems that aren't systems (US Select Numbered Freeways springs to mind).
This system was planned to eventually be rolled into their respective state systems and done away with.

Same for Canada's Select Provincial Highways system, which also includes only numbered routes.
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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #52 on: April 07, 2015, 02:03:01 PM »


(I'm trying to think of a state highway that has a gap that's pretty clear in the field, but nothing's coming to mind from my own travels.)
In the UK, we have implied concurrencies, and most are signed with 'to' brackets (I might recheck these eventually and cut routes that aren't). Waiting in my massive update pile is the breaking of two lengthy implied concurrencies that I don't think count: the A5 between Elstree and Friars Wash and the A31 between Winchester and Ower.

Ok, that's different from the sort of thing I was trying to think of but couldn't. I'll confess to ignorance on what you're talking about. I've not had to drive on British roads, though I've been on them.

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While it would be cool to have stuff like the Natchez Trace in the system, I'd be far more interested in, say, South Carolina State Highways.
Absolutely zero reason why those would be mutually exclusive!

Oh, no, not at all mutually exclusive. I guess I was talking about prioritization of tasks, which may be poor prioritization of its own sort. Especially given that I can't do much more than data entry (after training on that point to boot).
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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #53 on: April 07, 2015, 07:31:47 PM »

NY and Kentucky parkways could easily make their own systems. As for what to include with NY parkways, I say the criteria for inclusion should not be whether it's completely grade separated, but rather whether it is signed with a shield. That means things like Bear Mountain Parkway are in, but things like Playland Parkway are not.
So I take it routes like the Robert Moses State Parkway would continue to not be included?  Not every DOT region has the same commitment to the shields, and it's not like the reference routes where most people wouldn't know about them.

Technically the Playland Parkway isn't even a state road, so it wouldn't qualify regardless.

Duke87 might feel the system redundant, which is one reason why we don't have the NYST, despite being a signed named freeway. I'd include it, but he's in charge of New York and if he doesn't want to that's fine.
I'd include it too, at least so that people could track their travels relative to the Thruway mainline as well as I-90 and I-87.  There's also another good reason: that portion of the Berkshire spur that isn't concurrent with anything.

Inner Loop? I-490
The Inner Loop really is separate, though I'm not sure exactly what will happen to it once Rochester finishes filling that one part in.
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Duke87

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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #54 on: April 08, 2015, 01:18:25 AM »

So I take it routes like the Robert Moses State Parkway would continue to not be included?  Not every DOT region has the same commitment to the shields, and it's not like the reference routes where most people wouldn't know about them.

It's probably fair to include Robert Moses Parkway although that's a special case.

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Technically the Playland Parkway isn't even a state road, so it wouldn't qualify regardless.

Neither is the Bronx River Parkway north of the Bronx/Westchester line, and yet it still has its shield and is included in CHM currently.

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Duke87 might feel the system redundant, which is one reason why we don't have the NYST, despite being a signed named freeway. I'd include it, but he's in charge of New York and if he doesn't want to that's fine.
I'd include it too, at least so that people could track their travels relative to the Thruway mainline as well as I-90 and I-87.  There's also another good reason: that portion of the Berkshire spur that isn't concurrent with anything.

I'd include just the NY 912M portion of the Berkshire Spur as its own route, but let the rest of the Thruway system just sit as part of its respective interstates. As with "future interstates", I'd prefer to avoid having stuff that is completely redundant to other systems on there because it creates unnecessary clutter on maps when rendered.

But then I am of this line of thinking based on the current interface. If we can include the whole Thruway system for the purpose of generating stats but make it not render on maps except for the small independent section, then I can think of no good argument for not doing so.

Also, I believe Jim Teresco is responsible for New York currently. Though I am honored to be deemed worthy of the task. :-P
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english si

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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #55 on: April 08, 2015, 05:51:15 AM »

I'd include just the NY 912M portion of the Berkshire Spur as its own route, but let the rest of the Thruway system just sit as part of its respective interstates. As with "future interstates", I'd prefer to avoid having stuff that is completely redundant to other systems on there because it creates unnecessary clutter on maps when rendered.
Other than the labels, how so? Here's the NJTP and I-95 concurrency. You can't see the teal NJTP cluttering up the map, just some labels that aren't really clutter.


Of course it is up to terescoj (sorry Jim!), not any of us, to choose to put in the NYST if he wishes to do so.

For completeness, here's a future interstate / interstate concurrency (I-69 through Memphis). You'll note the lack of clutter. And here's Kentucky, where the yellow looks silly, but you can't see the teal underneath. With Future Interstates as teal then that wouldn't look as silly.

PS - I'm using Oscar in an absence of 'all'
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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #56 on: April 08, 2015, 10:59:04 AM »

That pink on grey is really bad and hard to see.
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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #57 on: April 08, 2015, 11:16:01 AM »

Out of curiosity, why does Hamilton show up instead of Trenton? I noticed that on the old CHM site and I never understood it. Trenton is the state capital - it should be shown regardless.
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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #58 on: April 08, 2015, 11:17:47 AM »

I think it's orange/light brown - as you can see below, the pink/light red is a bit easier to see.
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oscar

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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #59 on: April 08, 2015, 11:58:20 AM »

Out of curiosity, why does Hamilton show up instead of Trenton? I noticed that on the old CHM site and I never understood it. Trenton is the state capital - it should be shown regardless.

The cities shown on the map (including not just Hamilton, but also the obscure Princeton Meadows) are just the center points of a set of local maps that collectively cover most or all of the state.  Trenton and Princeton might be alternate center points, but at risk of creating gaps with the maps for adjacent local areas.
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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #60 on: April 08, 2015, 12:23:11 PM »

I think it's orange/light brown - as you can see below, the pink/light red is a bit easier to see.


Might be room to tweak the background color, to make the untraveled routes more visible, though there might be readability issues using just a stark plain white background, which led Tim to go with a light pastel background instead.

Darkening the untraveled routes would be another option, but that would reduce the contrast between traveled and untraveled routes.  I would leave that as is, much more important to highlight where the user has been than what s/he hasn't yet traveled.
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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #61 on: April 08, 2015, 01:00:48 PM »

I think decisions about whether to include something like the New York Thruway as a route in its own right would be based on project-wide guidelines not the preferences of a single region's maintainer.  Personally, I could go either way on it.  I'd like to get the 912M connector from the Thruway mainline to I-90 at B1 into the system, but that alone isn't enough for me to think the whole road needs to be included as the Thruway instead of just its various numbered portions.  That said, it's easy enough to do since we have all the points already.  It's just a matter of putting them into a handful of .wpt files.
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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #62 on: April 08, 2015, 01:03:07 PM »

As far as readability, I'm hoping that down the road we can add user-controllable options to create maps of many different sizes, over arbitrary regions, with various systems selected or not for inclusion, and with customizable color schemes, font sizes, labeling options, etc.  Of course, first we need to get the basics down, but many of these are pieces that might be made possible by having many people able to contribute to the core code base.
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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #63 on: April 08, 2015, 03:02:26 PM »

I think decisions about whether to include something like the New York Thruway as a route in its own right would be based on project-wide guidelines not the preferences of a single region's maintainer.  Personally, I could go either way on it.  I'd like to get the 912M connector from the Thruway mainline to I-90 at B1 into the system, but that alone isn't enough for me to think the whole road needs to be included as the Thruway instead of just its various numbered portions.  That said, it's easy enough to do since we have all the points already.  It's just a matter of putting them into a handful of .wpt files.
That could go with a named route system overlay on the numbered routes -- California (SoCal especially)'s named freeways that don't stay with their numbers (San Diego Freeway: I-5->I-405); Oregon's Highways vs Routes; Alaska and it's non-numbered highways... but that's something for down the line if it's even worth exploring, IMO.
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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #64 on: April 08, 2015, 08:06:56 PM »

Neither is the Bronx River Parkway north of the Bronx/Westchester line, and yet it still has its shield and is included in CHM currently.
It does have a reference route number, though obviously no reference markers are posted.  I've been using the definitions in this Wikipedia article for keeping track of my own travels: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parkways_in_New_York

As far as readability, I'm hoping that down the road we can add user-controllable options to create maps of many different sizes, over arbitrary regions, with various systems selected or not for inclusion, and with customizable color schemes, font sizes, labeling options, etc.  Of course, first we need to get the basics down, but many of these are pieces that might be made possible by having many people able to contribute to the core code base.

That would be awesome.  It should work quite well with the new JavaScript/HTML5 based maps.
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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #65 on: April 09, 2015, 12:38:19 AM »

As far as readability, I'm hoping that down the road we can add user-controllable options to create maps of many different sizes, over arbitrary regions, with various systems selected or not for inclusion, and with customizable color schemes, font sizes, labeling options, etc.  Of course, first we need to get the basics down, but many of these are pieces that might be made possible by having many people able to contribute to the core code base.

That would be awesome.  It should work quite well with the new JavaScript/HTML5 based maps.
I'll just reiterate what Valerie said: It should work quite well with the new JavaScript/HTML5 based maps.
Easily. It just takes a little coding. But the sky's the limit.

And while the server itself will need to spit out the Javascript, we have the advantage of the rendering itself being done client-side, saving on server CPU time.
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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #66 on: April 11, 2015, 02:50:13 PM »

Do we have anyone well-versed in the advantages and disadvantages of the various open-source licenses out there?  I think we'll want to choose a license before anything goes up on a public-facing site.  I think we'd want both our code and data to be tagged with an appropriate license, whatever that ends up being.
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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #67 on: April 11, 2015, 03:58:02 PM »

I think we'd want both our code and data to be tagged with an appropriate license, whatever that ends up being.

If by "data" you mean route files, the "appropriate licenses" could vary by route system and contributor. We need to be comfortable with what we're operating under, but do we need to formalize that with licenses?
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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #68 on: April 11, 2015, 04:49:47 PM »

Also the code.

Here's a link with some popular licences: http://opensource.org/licenses
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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #69 on: April 11, 2015, 05:00:06 PM »

I think we'd want both our code and data to be tagged with an appropriate license, whatever that ends up being.

If by "data" you mean route files, the "appropriate licenses" could vary by route system and contributor. We need to be comfortable with what we're operating under, but do we need to formalize that with licenses?

Maybe not.  I throw it out there for discussion.
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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #70 on: April 11, 2015, 08:25:09 PM »

Also the code.

Here's a link with some popular licences: http://opensource.org/licenses

Thanks, Val. I'm not well-versed in the licenses' advantages vs. disadvantages (or whether there even are any that might matter to our choices -- there might not be). I expect that people in the field who work with the various open-source programs would know much more on that subject than a retired lawyer who practiced in a completely different and unrelated specialty. But I could take a look anyway, once the choices are narrowed down, if it might help.

I'm not sure where Google APIs, which CHM uses a lot, fit in the picture. Might be, as a practical matter, in the "permission to use freely granted, so long as you don't do anything to piss off Google" category. 
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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #71 on: April 11, 2015, 10:03:34 PM »

Google APIs are not open source, Google has their own license terms for use of maps (Implementation must be public and be free)
There are, however, several restrictions on availability and quality for the free version.

https://developers.google.com/maps/licensing
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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #72 on: April 12, 2015, 08:15:12 AM »

Also the code.

Here's a link with some popular licences: http://opensource.org/licenses

Thanks, Val. I'm not well-versed in the licenses' advantages vs. disadvantages (or whether there even are any that might matter to our choices -- there might not be). I expect that people in the field who work with the various open-source programs would know much more on that subject than a retired lawyer who practiced in a completely different and unrelated specialty. But I could take a look anyway, once the choices are narrowed down, if it might help.

I'm not sure where Google APIs, which CHM uses a lot, fit in the picture. Might be, as a practical matter, in the "permission to use freely granted, so long as you don't do anything to piss off Google" category.
We might want to check into using the OpenLayers API, which uses OSM data and has more features than Google's API, IIRC.
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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #73 on: April 17, 2015, 10:43:00 AM »

Technically, the QEW should stay in the Provincial Freeways (400 series).  It's officially ON 451 on paper.

Just to clarify to save y'all some time now than changing things later -
For the QEW, the Highway 451 and Highway 1 numbers are only used as a placeholder for instances where a system will only accept a numerical input. And 451 has kind of fallen into disuse it appears. That highway's official designation is the Queen Elizabeth Way, and is considered to be a 400-series highway.
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Re: Things to do (CHM)
« Reply #74 on: April 18, 2015, 12:36:50 AM »

Didn't know that it was also Highway 1 in some records.  Is the QEW the reason there was never an ON 1?
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