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Author Topic: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)  (Read 74931 times)

Jim

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I've been thinking about how to get started on something useful for the new travel mapping project, and it keeps coming back to having a database design.  I'm not sure if it makes more sense to have the raw .csv, .wpt, and .list files built into a database directly and everything else works off the "raw" database, or if there should be some program that does some work on the data before it goes into the database.  I'm not sure how the old CHM system handles all of this, but I'm confident that it at least operates everything from the database after an update runs to bring in new highway and user data.  But I really don't know what that database looks like.  For example, is concurrency detection done as the files are loaded into the database, or when that data is used to generate some stats or a map?
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Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?u=terescoj
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SSOWorld

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2015, 01:45:29 AM »

SQL Queries are what I think it worked off of (but having no knowledge of what it did, I am making a guess.)

SQL (likely MySQL in this case) is a language that is used to build, search, populate, whatever you do to... database data tables in said free DBMS or similar (SQLite, MSSQL Server, etc).  PHP or any other language can be used to write SQL queries on the fly and access the data for read/write purposes.  (lot of reasons for PHP being vulnerable to security risks is its ease of use for this.)
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Scott O.

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As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
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vdeane

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2015, 12:18:37 PM »

The database appears to be a cache of the raw files allowing everything to be displayed online without processing everything whenever someone views a page.  We'll probably want to make tables that can hold what we're using to get the JavaScript canvas maps to work as well as the highway browser, stats, and narrowing down the map view.
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Jim

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2015, 01:28:44 PM »

That makes sense.  So the database would have everything in all forms needed for the various pages (maps, stats, highway browser).  Meaning the "site update" programs do more processing to take all of the .csv. .wpt, and .list entries and store them into the database in whatever form(s) is/are convenient for the various web-facing components.

I'm thinking about taking a stab at writing some code, either in Java or Python, which would read in all of the data files and get at least a subset of it into a database ready for someone's web-facing code to read.  Anyone want to request a table and fields needed for one of those?

Do I remember someone mentioning that they'd grabbed at least a subset of current .list files?  I suppose it's not hard to write something to grab them but if it's done already no sense redoing.  I already have scripts that pull down the current data folder contents, which unfortunately are probably unchanged since the last time I pulled it all down last summer.
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Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?u=terescoj
Counties: http://www.mob-rule.com/user/terescoj
Twitter @JimTeresco (roads, travel, skiing, weather, sports)

Jim

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2015, 02:25:45 PM »

I've just created a Github organization called TravelMapping that I propose we use to manage the project.  Github's organization structure seems to give us the level of control we'd need in terms of allowing different groups of users different level of access to the repositories.  See https://github.com/blog/674-introducing-organizations for some information about it.  It's free as long as we keep the project open source, which is the intent anyway from what I gather from our conversations to date.

I think we'll want just a few repositories within the organization.  It seems to make sense to me to have separate repositories for the "site update" code, the web site, the highway data, and user .list files.  I haven't created any of these yet.  I think we'd have different Github teams within the organization who have different levels of access to all of this.  No matter what, anyone would be able to fork any part of the project, but would not be able to commit/push (I really need to get up to speed on the correct git/Github terms) unless part of the team with write access to a particular repository.

For now, I'd like to invite those who would like to be involved in the initial implementation efforts (site update data processing, web site development) to join the organization.  You'll need a Github account if you don't already have one (also free).  Send me your Github username and I can add you to our organization. 

Once we get good at it, we can invite those whose main contributions will be through highway data updates, and finally, should we decide to use Github as a mechanism for .list updates, end user accounts could be added to the organization.
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oscar

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2015, 06:01:10 PM »

Do I remember someone mentioning that they'd grabbed at least a subset of current .list files?  I suppose it's not hard to write something to grab them but if it's done already no sense redoing.

You could also ask people to send in the list files they've been updating over the last few months.  My large file has grown larger in that time, and so could be an even better "stress test" of new code.
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ntallyn

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2015, 09:04:06 PM »

No matter what, anyone would be able to fork any part of the project, but would not be able to commit/push (I really need to get up to speed on the correct git/Github terms) unless part of the team with write access to a particular repository.

"Push" is the correct git term. It matches "pull", which takes the current remote repository and merges its changes into your working branch.

For now, I'd like to invite those who would like to be involved in the initial implementation efforts (site update data processing, web site development) to join the organization.  You'll need a Github account if you don't already have one (also free).  Send me your Github username and I can add you to our organization. 

My github username is the same as the one here.


Nick
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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2015, 09:36:25 PM »

I just created a github account with the same username as here.  I'm willing to offer my .list file for testing, though there is the question of whether or not I should add the Vermont state highways to my main file (they're currently in a separate file); the current prototype for the maps has them in.
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Thing 342

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #8 on: April 05, 2015, 09:50:49 PM »

I have a GitHub account with the same username.
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SSOWorld

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2015, 10:04:35 PM »

go ahead and ad me to the organization, same username as here but all lower case.
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Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

oscar

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #10 on: April 05, 2015, 10:16:25 PM »

I'm willing to offer my .list file for testing, though there is the question of whether or not I should add the Vermont state highways to my main file (they're currently in a separate file); the current prototype for the maps has them in.

New Mexico, Utah, and Montana state routes, all of which have gone through peer review, seem closer to ready to add to the list of mappable route sets. I have draft list file entries for all three as well as Vermont.

But I suggest that for system testing purposes, we have plenty of existing state route sets to work with, including for starters Jim's large and complex New York route set. So we can wait to add others to the mappable list, the prototype system, and to user list files until we have the basic system up and running.

I was not planning on getting a github account, at least right away, given my total ignorance of github or other aspects of programming. There are things I could be doing while the system is set up, but not sure any of it would require github access.
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Jim

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #11 on: April 05, 2015, 10:23:04 PM »

I've sent Github invitations to join the organization to the three who posted here so far.

In the old CHM system, there was no harm (other than a whole bunch of warnings in the log as in http://cmap.m-plex.com/trav/terescoj.log.txt) to having in-development or even nonexistent routes in your .list, and I hope that will continue to be the case.  In addition to keeping my own travels tracked for in-development systems, I also added what I expected entries would be called for traveled segments in regions where no work had yet started so I would remember where I had been if and when the project expanded to those regions.
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Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?u=terescoj
Counties: http://www.mob-rule.com/user/terescoj
Twitter @JimTeresco (roads, travel, skiing, weather, sports)

rickmastfan67

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #12 on: April 05, 2015, 11:20:07 PM »

For now, I'd like to invite those who would like to be involved in the initial implementation efforts (site update data processing, web site development) to join the organization.  You'll need a Github account if you don't already have one (also free).  Send me your Github username and I can add you to our organization.

Same exact user name as here Jim for Github.

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2015, 12:27:12 AM »

Set up, same user name.
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english si

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #14 on: April 06, 2015, 06:22:18 AM »

I've just registered with github as si404.

For a stress test for .wpt file size, the CA1 file is the biggest (49kB), beating things like Norway's E6 and Russia's E105 (my redone file that has no subregions is 'only' 45kB).
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SSOWorld

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2015, 06:29:53 AM »

I'm thinking about taking a stab at writing some code, either in Java or Python, which would read in all of the data files and get at least a subset of it into a database ready for someone's web-facing code to read.  Anyone want to request a table and fields needed for one of those?
I suggest Python.  Java often tries to use end-user computer clients to run and hogs resources.
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Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

Jim

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2015, 09:23:36 AM »

I'm thinking about taking a stab at writing some code, either in Java or Python, which would read in all of the data files and get at least a subset of it into a database ready for someone's web-facing code to read.  Anyone want to request a table and fields needed for one of those?
I suggest Python.  Java often tries to use end-user computer clients to run and hogs resources.

I have a first pass at a Python program that can read in .csv and .wpt data now in Github.  I'm a much more experienced Java programmer than Python, but I think it makes a lot of sense to use Python here and it's a good excuse for me to get better at it.
« Last Edit: April 06, 2015, 10:28:06 AM by SSOWorld »
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Signs: https://www.teresco.org/pics/signs/
Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?u=terescoj
Counties: http://www.mob-rule.com/user/terescoj
Twitter @JimTeresco (roads, travel, skiing, weather, sports)

oscar

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2015, 09:51:26 AM »

I've just registered with github as si404.

For a stress test for .wpt file size, the CA1 file is the biggest (49kB), beating things like Norway's E6 and Russia's E105 (my redone file that has no subregions is 'only' 45kB).

The current version of CA 1 is a good stress test. But I've already started on shrinking that route file, which should make it less "stress"-ful even if we don't end up chopping it up due to relinquishments in Santa Monica and a few other coastal cities.
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SSOWorld

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2015, 10:30:36 AM »

I'm thinking about taking a stab at writing some code, either in Java or Python, which would read in all of the data files and get at least a subset of it into a database ready for someone's web-facing code to read.  Anyone want to request a table and fields needed for one of those?
I suggest Python.  Java often tries to use end-user computer clients to run and hogs resources.

I have a first pass at a Python program that can read in .csv and .wpt data now in Github.  I'm a much more experienced Java programmer than Python, but I think it makes a lot of sense to use Python here and it's a good excuse for me to get better at it.

:bigass:

I have this philosophy about being a software engineer/computer scientist

  "As you gain extensive experience in one language, the others will catch up to you"

I work mostly in and have extensive experience in C, C++ and C#, but I have (with some help from the manuals) been able to work other languages regularly.  My biggest challenges over the last year was picking up a language that's a hodgepodge of BASIC and C that's proprietary to a robot and being able to work with it and also work with a Flow chart driven program that had C-like back end language in it (also proprietary to a controller)

but that's enough off-topic matter.

Regardless, I can be of good help to you - however as mentioned before - I will have to work around my work schedule (and for the next two months - house buying related stuff).

I left my GitHub username above (it's not the same username as for CHM, but I figure it should work)
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Scott O.

Not all who wander are lost...
Ah, the open skies, wind at my back, warm sun on my... wait, where the hell am I?!
As a matter of fact, I do own the road.
Raise your what?

Wisconsin - out-multiplexing your state since 1918.

Thing 342

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2015, 10:59:02 AM »

I've been thinking about an organizational hierarchy for highways, and I have a proposal for how to do it:
At the top you have "Countries", which represent countries and international route systems (eg E-Routes).
Within Countries, there are "Networks", which represent either regional systems (such as state highway networks) or national networks (such as Motorways, Interstates, or the TCH)
Within Networks, there are "Systems", which represent individual systems within a network (such as state routes and parkways within a state) or different classifications of routes within a national network (such as mainline versus bannered US Highways)
Within Systems, we have the individual highways, which are composed of wpt segments.

Each folder would contain a metadata.json file which would contain some information about user-facing text, as well as potential support for translations. An example for a country would be:
Code: [Select]
{
   "abbr":"US"
   "name:"United States"
   "name_en":"United States"
   "name_es":"Estados Unidos"
}

Each route would contain its wpt segments and a shield.png file which would be the shield used for the route, as well as a modified metadata.json which would contain information about individual segments of the route. A route metadata.json would look somewhat like this:
Code: [Select]
{
"name": "Interstate 74",
"segments": [
    {
        "region": "IA",
        "num":0,
        "mileage": 15,
        "waypoints": "ia.wpt"
    },
    {
        "region": "IL",
        "num":1,
        "mileage": 220,
        "waypoints":"il.wpt"
    },
    {
        "region": "IN",
        "num":2,
        "mileage": 180,
        "waypoints":"in.wpt"
    },
    {
        "region": "OH",
        "num":3,
        "mileage": 35,
        "waypoints": "oh.wpt"
    },
    {
        "region": "NC",
        "num": 4,
        "locale": "Mt. Airy, NC",
        "mileage": 15,
        "waypoints": "nc_mtairy.wpt"
    },
    {
        "region": "NC",
        "num": 5,
        "locale": "Ellerbe, NC",
        "mileage": 70,
        "waypoints": "nc_ellerbe.wpt"
    },
    {
        "region": "NC",
        "num": 6,
        "locale": "Lumberton, NC",
        "mileage": 15,
        "waypoints": "nc_lumberton.wpt"
    },
]
}
The 'locale' field would be used in the case of routes with multiple segments within a single region.
Here's an example tree for this proposed hierarchy (obviously not complete):
Code: [Select]
highway
├── CN
├── EU
├── UK
└── US
    ├── AK
    ├── AL
    ├── I
    │   ├── bus
    │   │   ├── 95
    │   │   │   ├── ga_savannah.wpt
    │   │   │   ├── metadata.json
    │   │   │   ├── nc_fayetteville.json
    │   │   │   └── shield.png
    │   │   └── metadata.json
    │   ├── future
    │   │   └── 74
    │   │       ├── metadata.json
    │   │       ├── nc_laurinburg.wpt
    │   │       ├── nc_pilotmtn.wpt
    │   │       └── shield.png
    │   ├── main
    │   │   ├── 2
    │   │   │   ├── metadata.json
    │   │   │   ├── shield.png
    │   │   │   └── tx.wpt
    │   │   ├── 4
    │   │   │   ├── fl.wpt
    │   │   │   ├── metadata.json
    │   │   │   └── shield.png
    │   │   ├── 5
    │   │   │   ├── ca.wpt
    │   │   │   ├── metadata.json
    │   │   │   ├── or.wpt
    │   │   │   ├── shield.png
    │   │   │   └── wa.wpt
    │   │   └── metadata.json
    │   └── metadata.json
    ├── KY
    │   ├── banner
    │   ├── main
    │   ├── metadata.json
    │   └── parkway
    ├── metadata.json
    ├── named_freeways
    └── US
        ├── banner
        ├── main
        │   ├── 1
        │   │   ├── ct.wpt
        │   │   ├── dc.wpt
        │   │   ├── fl.wpt
        │   │   ├── ga.wpt
        │   │   ├── ma.wpt
        │   │   ├── md.wpt
        │   │   ├── metadata.json
        │   │   ├── me.wpt
        │   │   ├── nc.wpt
        │   │   ├── nh.wpt
        │   │   ├── nj.wpt
        │   │   ├── ny.wpt
        │   │   ├── pa.wpt
        │   │   ├── ri.wpt
        │   │   ├── sc.wpt
        │   │   ├── shield.png
        │   │   └── va.wpt
        │   └── metadata.json
        └── metadata.json



Thoughts?
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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2015, 11:06:55 AM »

I've just registered with github as si404.

For a stress test for .wpt file size, the CA1 file is the biggest (49kB), beating things like Norway's E6 and Russia's E105 (my redone file that has no subregions is 'only' 45kB).

The current version of CA 1 is a good stress test. But I've already started on shrinking that route file, which should make it less "stress"-ful even if we don't end up chopping it up due to relinquishments in Santa Monica and a few other coastal cities.
About those relinquishments... since those cities are supposed to maintain guide banners directing motorists to the next segment (even if they don't, which is usually the case and against the route definitions), I'd argue that we shouldn't break up CA highways that have turnbacks in the middle of the route. Otherwise we'd have to also cut the routes down wherever they overlap with another for consistency (eg, CA 99 along US 50 and I-5 in Sacramento).

---

From a mapping standpoint, would instead of using two colors for traveled and untravelled, we use a single color and change the line thickness work?
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english si

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #21 on: April 06, 2015, 12:18:36 PM »

I've been thinking about an organizational hierarchy for highways, and I have a proposal for how to do it:
At the top you have "Countries", which represent countries and international route systems (eg E-Routes).
<snip>
Thoughts?

We currently have the following hierarchy for systems with (with the exception of E roads) the map showing colours higher up the hierarchy:
phase 1 (blue): Interstates, QC Autoroutes, NS freeways, ON freeways, MEX federal expressways, European 'Motorways' systems
phase 1a (teal): European 'Expressways' systems, Ax(M), Select Named Motorways, Select Numbered State/Provincial/Autonomous Community Freeways
phase 1b (yellow): Future Interstates
phase 1c (green): Business Interstates
phase 2 (red): US routes, Trans-Canada Highway, E roads (mapped below phase 3)
phase 2a (orange): Bannered US routes
phase 3 (brown): British Isles A roads/N Roads, state/provincial/territorial/district highways

I should point out that that phase 1 and 2 (even E roads) are shown at higher zoom outs and have thicker lines.

I'd make a continental split, with possibly a split of North America into two (Canada-USA and Caribbean-Central America) and move future interstates, giving (with the current in-browser systems):
    Europe
      phase 1 - blue (motorway systems)
        Albania Motorways: alba
        Austria Motorways: auta
        Belgium Motorways: bela
        Bosnia and Herzegovina Motorways: biha
        Bulgaria Motorways: bgra
        Switzerland Motorways: chea
        Cyprus Motorways: cypa
        Czech Republic Motorways: czed
        Germany Motorways: deua
        Spain National Motorways: espa
        France Motorways: fraa
        Great Britain Motorways: gbnm
        Northern Ireland Motorways: nirm
        Greece Motorways: grca
        Croatia Motorways: hrva
        Hungary Motorways: hunm
        Ireland Motorways: irlm
        Italy Motorways: itaa
        Luxembourg Motorways: luxa
        Netherlands Motorways: nlda
        Poland Motorways: pola
        Portugal Motorways: prta
        Kosovo Motorways: rksr
        Romania Motorways: roua
        Slovakia Motorways: svkd
        Slovenia Motorways: svna
        Turkey Motorways: turo
      phase 1a - teal (expressway systems, select expressways)
        Austria Expressways: auts
        Czech Republic Expressways: czer
        Spain Select Autonomous Community Motorways: espaca
        Great Britain A Motorways: gbnam
        Northern Ireland A Motorways: niram
        Italy Select Named Motorways: itasm
        Luxembourg Expressways: luxb
        Poland Expressways: pols
        Slovakia Expressways: svkr
        Slovenia Expressways: svnh
      phase 2 - red (continental systems)
        International E-roads: eure
      phase 3 - brown (national systems)
        Great Britain A Roads (Zones 2-5, 7)
        (Great Britain A Roads (Zone 1): gbna1)
        (Great Britain A Roads (Zone 6): gbna6)
        (Great Britain A Roads (Zone 8): gbna8)
        (Great Britain A Roads (Zone 9): gbna9)
        Northern Ireland A Roads: nira
        Ireland N Roads: irln
        Isle of Man A Roads: imna
        Jersey A Roads: jeya
    North America
      phase 1 - blue (motorway systems)
        Nova Scotia Provincial Freeways: cannsf
        Ontario Provincial Freeways: canonf
        Quebec Freeways: canqca
        Martinique Motorways: mtqa
        Jamaica Motorways: jamt
        Mexico Federal Expressways: mexd
        United States Interstate Highways: usai
      phase 1a - teal (expressway systems, select expressways)
        (Canada Select Named Freeways: cannf)
        Mexico State Expressways: mexed
        United States Future Interstate Highways: usaif
        United States Select Named Freeways: usasf
        United States Select Numbered State Freeways: usansf
      phase 1b - green (phase 1 business systems)
        United States Business Interstate Highways: usaib
      phase 2 - red (continental systems)
        Trans-Canada Highway: cantch
        United States Numbered Highways: usaus
      phase 2a - orange (bannered continental systems)
        United States Auxillary Numbered Highways: usausb
      phase 3 - brown (state/provincial/etc systems)
        New Brunswick Provincial Highways: cannb
        Nova Scotia Trunk Routes: cannst
        Northwest Territorial Highways: cannt
        Ontario King's Highways: canon
        Prince Edward Island Provincial Highways: canpe
        (Canada Select Provincial Highways: cansph)
        Yukon Territorial Highways: canyt
        (Alaska State Highways: usaak)
        Arizona State Highways: usaaz
        (California State Highways: usaca)
        Connecticut State Highways: usact
        District of Columbia District Highways: usadc
        Delaware State Highways: usade
        Hawaii State Highways: usahi
        (Florida State Highways: usafl)
        Iowa State Highways: usaia
        Idaho State Highways: usaid
        Illinois State Highways: usail
        Kansas State Highways: usaks
        Kentucky State Highways 1-999: usaky
        (Kentucky State Highways 1000-1499: usaky3)
        (Kentucky State Highways 1500-1999: usaky4)
        (Louisiana State Highways 1-499: usala1)
        Maine State Highways: usame
        Maryland State Highways: usamd
        Massachusetts State Highways: usama
        Michigan State Highways: usami
        Minnesota State Highways: usamn
        Missouri State Highways: usamo
        (Montana Primary State Highways: usamt)
        Nebraska State Highways: usane
        Nevada State Highways: usanv
        New Hampshire State Highways: usanh
        New Jersey State Highways: usanj
        (New Mexico State Highways: usanm)
        New York State Highways: usany
        North Carolina State Highways: usanc
        North Dakota State Highways: usand
        Ohio State Highways: usaoh
        Oklahoma State Highways: usaok
        Oregon State Highways: usaor
        Pennsylvania State Highways: usapa
        Rhode Island State Highways: usari
        (South Carolina State Highways: usasc)
        (Utah State Highways: usaut)
        (Vermont State Highways: usavt)
        Washington State Highways: usawa
        West Virginia State Highways: usawv
        Wisconsin State Highways: usawi
      phase 3a - yellow (state/provincial/national secondary systems)
        Nova Scotia Collector Routes: cannsc

With obvious scope for more in each section, addition continents, etc.

When it comes to subregions, Canada, USA, Mexico, UK, Russia and Kazakhstan are split into subregions. France's DOM-TOMs are separate subregions too (and presumably other territories that have ISO-3166 codes), but the regional splits in 'Metropolitan France' aren't made. I'd like to remove Russian/Kazakh subregions and have done so on my files (this will affect about two users). I'd also like the deal with the inconsistent division of the UK, but not (say) Spain, but that would affect too many users to merge all gbn files from eng, sct and wls ones. I personally think that Crimea needs to become a subregion of Ukraine (like the French examples) due to being de facto part of Russia. I'd also put EUR and NAM super-regions above the region level, which would help with the multiple continents issue.
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english si

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #22 on: April 06, 2015, 12:22:51 PM »

About those relinquishments... since those cities are supposed to maintain guide banners directing motorists to the next segment (even if they don't, which is usually the case and against the route definitions), I'd argue that we shouldn't break up CA highways that have turnbacks in the middle of the route. Otherwise we'd have to also cut the routes down wherever they overlap with another for consistency (eg, CA 99 along US 50 and I-5 in Sacramento).
I cannot think of anything more frustrating than road numbering by who maintains it (cf France and Norway where their 00s detrunkings caused lots of renumbering, and compare to the UK's detrunking of the same era, which caused zero renumbering!). Even if it isn't explicitly signed through a city, and merely implied, I'd keep it!

Quote
From a mapping standpoint, would instead of using two colors for traveled and untravelled, we use a single color and change the line thickness work?
It's harder to see. I'd go with no.
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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #23 on: April 06, 2015, 12:59:45 PM »

About those relinquishments... since those cities are supposed to maintain guide banners directing motorists to the next segment (even if they don't, which is usually the case and against the route definitions), I'd argue that we shouldn't break up CA highways that have turnbacks in the middle of the route. Otherwise we'd have to also cut the routes down wherever they overlap with another for consistency (eg, CA 99 along US 50 and I-5 in Sacramento).
I cannot think of anything more frustrating than road numbering by who maintains it (cf France and Norway where their 00s detrunkings caused lots of renumbering, and compare to the UK's detrunking of the same era, which caused zero renumbering!). Even if it isn't explicitly signed through a city, and merely implied, I'd keep it!

An interesting discussion for later. I'll just note that California is very different from Vermont. Vermont's "town" routes are part of its state highway system, even if maintained and signed differently. California's relinquished segments have been explicitly removed from the state highway system, even if some of the affected communities are for now trying to have it both ways (keeping old state highway signage, while making "improvements" that would not be allowed on state highways).

I don't think it would be inconsistent to preserve implied concurrencies between a state route and another state highway (such as several where CA 1 continues along US 101), while chopping up routes where segments have been removed from the state highway system altogether.
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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #24 on: April 06, 2015, 01:08:03 PM »

Even if it isn't explicitly signed through a city, and merely implied, I'd keep it!

I'm guessing there will be a lot of sentiment in favor of this for the new project.  We don't want routes that are clearly gone (unless we some time added historical routes, which would certainly be possible) but in those cases where the route is still obvious and for all reasonable purposes is the route, I would be in favor of keeping.  I always thought Vermont's town-maintained highways were an obvious case for inclusion, but something like CA 1 would makes sense to me to be included as a continuous route.
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Photos I post are my own unless otherwise noted.
Signs: https://www.teresco.org/pics/signs/
Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?u=terescoj
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Twitter @JimTeresco (roads, travel, skiing, weather, sports)

 


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