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Author Topic: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)  (Read 74929 times)

Bickendan

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #25 on: April 06, 2015, 02:40:28 PM »

One-way alignments: I'm looking at CA 160 in downtown Sac'to and that mess that is RI 15, 114 and others (especially that self-wrong way overlap!)... Keep the general centerline 'trace' or eventually account for the alignment splits? While I personally like the idea of accounting for splits (and it may be needed on transit tracking if/when we look into it), I also realize that it could be a headache to do (moreso than RI's already given us...).
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SSOWorld

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #26 on: April 06, 2015, 03:01:16 PM »

For one-way - that's quite a hassle.  It's bad enough that we [have to] do split interstates ;)
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Scott O.

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oscar

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #27 on: April 06, 2015, 03:37:28 PM »

One-way alignments: I'm looking at CA 160 in downtown Sac'to

Conveniently (or not), that part of CA 160 has been relinquished to the city of Sacramento. That removes from the state highway system the pair of widely-separated one-way alignments within the city, but also breaks the route into two segments, a short one mostly north of city limits, and a longer one south of the city.

Pick your poison, huh?
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Bickendan

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #28 on: April 06, 2015, 06:22:00 PM »

One-way alignments: I'm looking at CA 160 in downtown Sac'to

Conveniently (or not), that part of CA 160 has been relinquished to the city of Sacramento. That removes from the state highway system the pair of widely-separated one-way alignments within the city, but also breaks the route into two segments, a short one mostly north of city limits, and a longer one south of the city.

Pick your poison, huh?
Relinquished portion should remain, per route definition's reliquished segment clause: "For the relinquished former portion of Route 160, the City of Sacramento shall maintain signs directing motorists to the continuation of Route 160."

The fact that CalTrans or the cities are taking down said signs is very, very annoying when they're not supposed to.
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yakra

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #29 on: April 07, 2015, 02:21:45 AM »

Quote from: Jim
Do I remember someone mentioning that they'd grabbed at least a subset of current .list files?
I have all the current .list files archived.

I suggest, barring a compelling reason, keeping .list files out of Github. Seems to add an unnecessary level of complexity to usage, and would discourage casual travelers.

Quote from: oscar
I'll just note that California is very different from Vermont. Vermont's "town" routes are part of its state highway system, even if maintained and signed differently.
Didn't froggie once say, on the old CHM forum, that "One size does not fit all"? I think that applies here. There's an aspect to roadgeeking, and identifying what makes a State Route System, that's not unlike chicken sexing or WW2 plane spotting... Something readily & easily understood by those with experience and knowledge looking at the big picture, that can't be succinctly pinned down in a few words to be easily grokked by newer observers. In Vermont's case, I always thought it appropriate to look at the routes within the framework of local maintenance and Urban Compacts as it exists throughout northern New England...
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rickmastfan67

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #30 on: April 07, 2015, 03:45:49 AM »

One thing I hope we can do with the new site is merge highways that are in multiple states properly.

http://cmap.m-plex.com/stat/topstats.php?u=rickmastfan67#ltl

For example, go down to #11 on that list for I-26.  There should be a way to include I-26 in Tennessee (and northern NC) since it's part of the same route, and WILL be connected in the future.  Heck, maybe we can merge in the NC Future I-26 with it (and show both shields) for the 'top stats' pages.  Also on the individual page that I-26 links to (here, and the other part here).  I never agreed with Tim with his reasoning for not somehow combining routes together.  I do hope we can rectify this with the new site.

However, I-74 NC could be a problem doing this too.  But, there should be some way to have all the Future and Normal segments linked together for the Top Lists.

vdeane

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #31 on: April 07, 2015, 07:10:55 PM »

Or multiple segments.  On the current CHM, you have to do math to get an overall percentage on routes like NY 17.  Perhaps we could add logic to combine them all into one non-continuous entry, with the old segment names still recognized to maintain backwards compatibility?
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yakra

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #32 on: April 08, 2015, 12:35:36 AM »

Or multiple segments.  On the current CHM, you have to do math to get an overall percentage on routes like NY 17.  Perhaps we could add logic to combine them all into one non-continuous entry, with the old segment names still recognized to maintain backwards compatibility?
http://cmap.m-plex.com/stat/highway.php?u=yakra&r=ny.ny017
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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #33 on: April 11, 2015, 08:24:59 AM »

At the moment, only jim can add stuff to the Github project (or whatever the term is) - that surely needs fixing.
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Jim

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #34 on: April 11, 2015, 10:58:08 AM »

Right, that's definitely not good.  I'd like us to be able to gather all of the work everyone's done so far as well as ongoing projects in repositories there.  If you'd like to be able to create a repository within our github organization or be able to modify an existing repository within, let me know and I'll add that access.  Once we're a bit more organized, I or someone else can create the repositories for the "official" parts of the project that are intended to lead to production versions.

For now, I have three repositories that I think of as work areas: CoreDataProcessing, which so far just has the Python code I wrote to parse .csv and .wpt files last week, and MapGeneration and Web, where I propose we put work toward, well, map generation, and web-facing parts of the project (maybe a new Highway Browser).

But for now, drop me a note about what level of access you want to have within the organization and I'll set it up.  I want to make sure that at least two or three people can do pretty much everything so we don't end up back in a bad situation.  I'll add people to teams and give teams appropriate levels of access to repositories (and would like to make at least one person, probably two, also an "owner").
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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #35 on: April 11, 2015, 12:59:38 PM »

do we need the raw data on there, or is it just for the stuff that deals with the data?
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SSOWorld

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #36 on: April 11, 2015, 02:20:13 PM »

In order to process the data it should be there.  I would have to guess that it should reside in the CoreDataProcessing repo.

See PM for my requests.

Full access to the repositories - my recommendation would be the head of the project the person setting up the web hosting for sure.  Have these been included in your recommendation of number of those with full access?
« Last Edit: April 11, 2015, 02:27:00 PM by SSOWorld »
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Scott O.

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Jim

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #37 on: April 11, 2015, 02:33:53 PM »

I'd like a separate repository within the organization for data.  I think it would be great if we could start bringing together all of the data we're confident is ready to go.  The way I envision it (and please feel free to say so if this doesn't make sense) is that someone working on the data processing part of this would have clones of both of those repositories to be able to do their work.  And someone whose focus is on the highway data itself would only clone that one.

I agree that whoever ends up setting up and managing the web hosting would likely get full admin access to the organization's repositories also.
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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #38 on: April 11, 2015, 02:47:55 PM »

Does anyone want to suggest a different organization for data than what was done in the old CHM project?  There, we had a directory with lots of subdirectories: one with all of the .csv files for all of the systems, then a subdirectory for each of those systems with all of that system's .wpt files.

I'd also like us to consider whether it makes sense to have a new .wpt file format without all of the overhead of the full (now old-style, I believe) OSM URL.  It makes more sense to me to use this point to have things much simpler: the latitude and longitude and numbers only, followed by a list of one or more waypoint names.  I suggest to reverse the order as part of this only to simplify parsing, but it's not a big problem either way (or to remain as is, for that matter).  Of course, a new waypoint editor, when available, would be able to work with whatever format we choose.
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vdeane

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #39 on: April 11, 2015, 04:53:58 PM »

It would probably be a good idea for people to be able to create branches and push to branches they create.  The core crew could test submitted code and merge the branches into the main one.
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oscar

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #40 on: April 11, 2015, 08:36:56 PM »

Does anyone want to suggest a different organization for data than what was done in the old CHM project?  There, we had a directory with lots of subdirectories: one with all of the .csv files for all of the systems, then a subdirectory for each of those systems with all of that system's .wpt files.

I found the proliferation of subdirectories, some appearing to be duplicative, horribly confusing to anyone except Tim. When downloading files, I sometimes could not be sure I was grabbing the right ones, and of course we'd have the problem of making sure uploaded (or "pushed") files go to the right place. Simplification of the directory structure would really help.

I'd also like us to consider whether it makes sense to have a new .wpt file format without all of the overhead of the full (now old-style, I believe) OSM URL.  It makes more sense to me to use this point to have things much simpler: the latitude and longitude and numbers only, followed by a list of one or more waypoint names.  I suggest to reverse the order as part of this only to simplify parsing, but it's not a big problem either way (or to remain as is, for that matter).  Of course, a new waypoint editor, when available, would be able to work with whatever format we choose.

So long as there's an easy way to convert from the old format to the new one, in bulk (with thousands of old-style route files out there). We might be forced to do that anyway, if the old-format OSM URLs cease to function.
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rickmastfan67

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #41 on: April 11, 2015, 11:42:42 PM »

So long as there's an easy way to convert from the old format to the new one, in bulk (with thousands of old-style route files out there). We might be forced to do that anyway, if the old-format OSM URLs cease to function.

That should be possible using Notepad++.  Just open a ton a files in it and do a 'Replace All' for all open documents.  Just select the URL parts that are identical in each file and leave the 'Replace with' part completely blank.  If needed, I could create a guide to do it w/ images.

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #42 on: April 12, 2015, 09:39:49 AM »

So long as there's an easy way to convert from the old format to the new one, in bulk (with thousands of old-style route files out there). We might be forced to do that anyway, if the old-format OSM URLs cease to function.

That should be possible using Notepad++.  Just open a ton a files in it and do a 'Replace All' for all open documents.  Just select the URL parts that are identical in each file and leave the 'Replace with' part completely blank.  If needed, I could create a guide to do it w/ images.

Better yet, a nearly-trivial program could do a mass conversion of existing files before they're added to the new system, and that program would be available to anyone who has files not yet on the old CHM site.  I'm happy to write and run such a program if and when we agree on a new format.
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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2015, 08:12:12 PM »

As a CHM user who has closely followed the threads here and eagerly anticipates the return of the project, I would love to see regular (weekly?) updates about the status of the new site.  Nothing too detailed, just something along the lines of "we've got X working, and now we're in the process of doing Y, which may take a few weeks because of...".  Maybe here, maybe in a dedicated topic.

Also, it's not been made clear yet whether people with no programming experience would be of use to the project.  I'd like to help, but haven't made an account on Github because (a) I don't know what that is and (b) I don't know what skills must be possessed in order to participate there effectively.

Thanks for the work you all have put in so far.
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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2015, 08:40:13 PM »

It would probably be a good idea for people to be able to create branches and push to branches they create.  The core crew could test submitted code and merge the branches into the main one.
The best way to do this would probably be to have the repo set up as a fork-and-pull system, where anyone can fork and make their own changes, but any changes to the master system would be made through a pull request to one of the project maintainers. This would allow for crowdsourcing of the data, while still maintaining data consistency by requiring approval of changes.

Does anyone want to suggest a different organization for data than what was done in the old CHM project?  There, we had a directory with lots of subdirectories: one with all of the .csv files for all of the systems, then a subdirectory for each of those systems with all of that system's .wpt files.

I found the proliferation of subdirectories, some appearing to be duplicative, horribly confusing to anyone except Tim. When downloading files, I sometimes could not be sure I was grabbing the right ones, and of course we'd have the problem of making sure uploaded (or "pushed") files go to the right place. Simplification of the directory structure would really help.

I agree. I think a more hierarchical structure would be beneficial, as opposed to the somewhat arbitrary phase system in CHM. 
« Last Edit: April 19, 2015, 08:51:06 PM by Thing 342 »
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oscar

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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2015, 09:25:56 PM »

Also, it's not been made clear yet whether people with no programming experience would be of use to the project.  I'd like to help, but haven't made an account on Github because (a) I don't know what that is and (b) I don't know what skills must be possessed in order to participate there effectively.

Speaking just for myself (since decisions will likely be made more collaboratively than with CHM), I think we're not at the stage to make team decisions about what to look for in new non-programmer team members, though I expect we'll end up adding some of them. The first priority has to be the programming to set up the new system and the tools needed to help new people contribute. Only once that is well underway would we start thinking about how to expand the team.

I'm a non-programmer, but my extensive travels throughout North America, and especially strong familiarity with Hawaii and the hard-to-map Arctic jurisdictions, helped me get on the CHM team. Other kinds of non-programming expertise would be useful too. But knowing a lot about the highways of regions not covered by current and past CHM veterans (after we figure out who among them will be joining the new project, and in what capacity) would help. Knowledge of, or at least interest in taking on, multiple regions or tasks not specific to highway mapping (such as improving land and water boundaries, or rail or other non-highway systems we might expand into), would also be good since fewer new people would need to be shown the ropes.
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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #46 on: April 20, 2015, 06:38:25 AM »

I think a more hierarchical structure would be beneficial, as opposed to the somewhat arbitrary phase system in CHM.
How do you mean? And the phase system is not how stuff is stored, but what type of highway something is - that it is called 'phase' is arbitrary, but the divisions are still important (though not for storing data - merely rendering it)

As far as I can see, there's three broad options for the data:

1) No subfolders (OK, there might be some splitting Highway Data and Boundary Data, system csvs and behind the scenes stuff like mapviews). Will end up hard to find files as we're looking at over 15k routes.

2) Subfolders per system - the current way. I should point out that there's not many 'duplicates' in terms of folders and they mostly are because Tim has moved the files out of defunct folders but not deleted the folder. There's a few files where overhauls were in the /data folder but hadn't yet been pushed (Yukon, for example) and another few where a route is going to move from grabbag but the final system hasn't been activated. I've fixed these in my rip of the /data folder. This approach would mean finding files by system is infinitely easier than other methods, and new systems wouldn't be messy as all the files would be in one place not getting in the way of existing ones.

3) Subfolders per region/subregion - makes it easier to look for a region's files, though they are already sorted by region by the filename. We maintain files by region. Typically this was how I used to arrange it on my PC, but I've gone with by system now.

----

Can someone please tell me an easy way of batch uploading to Github so the existing data is up there (or at least in a fork of the project)?
« Last Edit: April 20, 2015, 06:40:48 AM by english si »
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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #47 on: April 20, 2015, 07:15:22 AM »

From an organizational perspective, I'm a fan of #3.
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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2015, 10:47:43 AM »

Can someone please tell me an easy way of batch uploading to Github so the existing data is up there (or at least in a fork of the project)?

Create the repo on github, clone it onto your computer, add the files to the directory and 'add' them to git (not sure how to batch-add in command-line, but it's easy enough using any of the GUIs), commit, push.
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Re: Technical/Design/Implementation Discussions (CHM/Travel Mapping)
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2015, 12:18:34 PM »

Create the repo on github, clone it onto your computer, add the files to the directory and 'add' them to git (not sure how to batch-add in command-line, but it's easy enough using any of the GUIs), commit,
Done all that, though had to reduce the number of files in each batch, so there's a good ten or so commits.
Quote
push.
Can't seem to do that. The 'publish' (which is the only option I have) fails.
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