BGS's on Surface Streets

[MisterSG1]

Not mentioned yet, close to the foot (southern end) of Spadina Avenue in downtown Toronto.

[jakeroot]

The issue is that shields + directions + destinations packs in more information in the same reading time than just shields + directions on one sign and destinations on another sign down the road.  If you are set on getting rid of sign salads, putting shields + directions against a green background is one way to do it.

Freeway signs do combine shields, directions, and destinations, but are larger (primary destination legend is more than twice as high as on conventional-road guide signs) and appear in less visually clustered environments.  At the vast majority of exits, a sign with shield, direction, and destination is part of a sequence that repeats the same information at least once.

Here's my solution, which has sort of been tried in Washington. Have two identical guide signs approaching a junction, with the only difference between the two being the distance message. With the traditional (MUTCD) method, you have one sign salad and one destination sign approaching a junction. If you happen to miss one or both of these signs, you could be screwed. Giving the signs a recognizable shape and layout could improve visibility on surface streets, and duplicating the message across more than one sign would reduce the chance that someone would miss the information that they were looking for.

I believe the traditional MUTCD method of signing surface street junctions does indeed dictate rather small signage (at least half the size of freeway guide signs), which I personally believe adds to visual clutter on the side of the road. Most roadside signs are actually quite small, nothing like the size of a guide sign. This is why I personally advocate for guide signs like what WSDOT uses, because they stand out from virtually everything else on the side of the road. They are also much larger than traditional roadside destination signs. They are smaller than guide signs used on freeways, but not significantly so.

I find it hard to believe that simply putting everything on a green background makes it harder to comprehend.

The way I see it, it's like adding a back plate to a traffic signal. Less visual conflict with other roadside crap (and the sun).

[Sanctimoniously]

Not sure if these have been mentioned yet but several major intersections along U.S. 58 (Virginia Beach Boulevard) are signed this way.

[PHLBOS]

From Interesting Hill Signage thread, one of a handful of BGS in western MA approaching steep hills:

MA 57 has one near MA 8:
\

[thefraze_1020]

What if we made this thread more interesting (or started a separate thread). BGS's on surface roads that are not state routes. Therefore, BGS's on county roads, city streets, USFS roads, NPS roads, etc. I would not include airport access roads, but I would include former state routes.

In terms of former state routes, I offer a few examples (both in the Longview/ Kelso, WA area):

Nichols Blvd in Longview. It was an alignment of SR 432 until 1992, and the greenout in the center sign is covering a SR 432 shield.
https://www.google.com/maps/@46.1326761,-122.9524852,3a,75y,348.37h,100.54t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sYBmhMSWMzcwe00Nw23U29A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

N Pacific Ave in Kelso, formerly SR 431 until 1992.
https://www.google.com/maps/@46.1477467,-122.9102471,3a,75y,218.05h,82.57t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1spLEVtnFnB5oPVQZpGEUDrQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

[jakeroot]

What if we made this thread more interesting (or started a separate thread). BGS's on surface roads that are not state routes. Therefore, BGS's on county roads, city streets, USFS roads, NPS roads, etc. I would not include airport access roads, but I would include former state routes.

Puyallup (WA, for everyone else) has many overhead BGS signs, almost all quite small. Until a few years ago, most were all in Helvetica. None are on state highways (all locally maintained):

Pioneer Ave approaching 3rd St: https://goo.gl/qjBhv7 (since replaced with all caps FHWA )
3rd St SE approaching Pioneer Ave: https://goo.gl/PLRAHs
2nd St NE approaching Stewart: https://goo.gl/kj2rBi (older sign with FHWA)
Stewart approaching 2nd St NE: https://goo.gl/k6zg3a
Meridian Ave (not part of WA-161) approaching Stewart: https://goo.gl/iAVTTH (since replaced with more informative signage -- note "CITY OFFICES" destination...wtf?)

From Interesting Hill Signage thread, one of a handful of BGS in western MA approaching steep hills:

MA 57 has one near MA 8:

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2658/32217106844_a1ee8f8808_b.jpg

I love that custom "windy road" warning sign. I wish more placed used custom warning signs like that.

[ET21]

Highland Ave might fall underneath that new "not state road" classification, here's one in Downers Grove IL. It might be a county route though for DuPage

[cwf1701]

On NB Gratiot in Roseville MI. the BGS is for SB Gratiot and WB Masonic Blvd: https://www.google.com/maps/@42.5326843,-82.9133816,3a,47.8y,19.96h,93.07t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sYC3mrafrVo2dW_G5WQ0hLw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DYC3mrafrVo2dW_G5WQ0hLw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D162.1202%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656

[bugo]

Somebody already posted these, but here are my pictures of the same signs. SB Cincinnati Avenue in downtown Tulsa.




Minot, North Dakota.

[Scott5114]

It would have been so cool if they made a button-copy cleaver 51 shield to match.

[paulthemapguy]

Highland Ave might fall underneath that new "not state road" classification, here's one in Downers Grove IL. It might be a county route though for DuPage

Can confirm, it's DuPage County Highway 9.
That intersection is at a SPUI, and there's a ton of information that needs to be made available to the drivers, in order for them to figure out how to navigate through.  That's because people aren't just trying to figure out how to get to IL-56; people are trying to find their way to a mall, two nearby interstates, and a series of Frontage Roads that have a lot of the vicinity's shops and restaurants.  That's a lot of chaos...it's hard to find your way around to all the commercial establishments in that area.  Definitely warrants a BGS

[jakeroot]

Highland Ave might fall underneath that new "not state road" classification, here's one in Downers Grove IL. It might be a county route though for DuPage
http://www.billburmaster.com/rmsandw/illinois/images/il56i88355bgshighland.jpg

Can confirm, it's DuPage County Highway 9.
That intersection is at a SPUI, and there's a ton of information that needs to be made available to the drivers, in order for them to figure out how to navigate through.  That's because people aren't just trying to figure out how to get to IL-56; people are trying to find their way to a mall, two nearby interstates, and a series of Frontage Roads that have a lot of the vicinity's shops and restaurants.  That's a lot of chaos...it's hard to find your way around to all the commercial establishments in that area.  Definitely warrants a BGS

I'm surprised more "compact APL" signs like this aren't common. I find them incredibly useful, and they save on space. Particularly helpful when one or more lanes don't actually exist yet. I see them around Seattle, but they're usually quite small.

[1995hoo]

What if we made this thread more interesting (or started a separate thread). BGS's on surface roads that are not state routes. Therefore, BGS's on county roads, city streets, USFS roads, NPS roads, etc. I would not include airport access roads, but I would include former state routes.

....

This one I posted further up this page of the thread might qualify as to city streets:

Here's a fairly new one in the District of Columbia for the new ramp to the Third Street Tunnel:
https://goo.gl/maps/mPEnUWxFDyL2

I haven't driven through that area in the other direction via H Street this year, so I don't know what sort of signage there might be on that side.

[MNHighwayMan]

It would have been so cool if they made a button-copy cleaver 51 shield to match.

Neo-retro button copy, so to speak–now that would be a sight to see! Perfect for sign hipsters everywhere!

Edit: I actually need to see this now. Someone with more Photoshop/Illustrator skills than me should make one.

[paulthemapguy]

I'm surprised more "compact APL" signs like this aren't common. I find them incredibly useful, and they save on space. Particularly helpful when one or more lanes don't actually exist yet. I see them around Seattle, but they're usually quite small.

I'm a big fan of these too.  They're very efficient and very effective.  Any other choice of signage style would have yielded a messier result.

[jakeroot]

I'm surprised more "compact APL" signs like this aren't common. I find them incredibly useful, and they save on space. Particularly helpful when one or more lanes don't actually exist yet. I see them around Seattle, but they're usually quite small.

I'm a big fan of these too.  They're very efficient and very effective.  Any other choice of signage style would have yielded a messier result.

And almost certainly a liberal use of the "LEFT XX LANES" or "RIGHT XX LANES" message, one of my least favorite guide sign messages.

[ftballfan]

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.0392688,-84.3511552,3a,75y,153.44h,85.19t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soPk1QfDLv6ins5z93dT_kw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

US-127 at US-223 in Somerset, MI

[jmd41280]

This sign is located on US 224 (at its intersection with Business 422) in New Castle, PA.


Intersection of US 224 and US 422 Business - New Castle, PA by Jon Dawson, on Flickr

[johndoe]

I'm surprised more "compact APL" signs like this aren't common. I find them incredibly useful, and they save on space. Particularly helpful when one or more lanes don't actually exist yet. I see them around Seattle, but they're usually quite small.

I'm a big fan of these too.  They're very efficient and very effective.  Any other choice of signage style would have yielded a messier result.

And almost certainly a liberal use of the "LEFT XX LANES" or "RIGHT XX LANES" message, one of my least favorite guide sign messages.

Generally I agree about APL, but I'm not convinced when the arrows arent over the lanes.  Look how "scrunched" the example actually is: https://goo.gl/maps/ouNYDGjcxoN2

It would be difficult to interpret quickly. IMO.  Also, I'm not a fan of fewer lanes than arrows.  Ho is a driver to know where the extra lane is going to be created from?

[jflick99]

College Blvd. has a few BGS's as it approaches US-69 from the east in Overland Park, KS.

Finding the GSV for this got me thinking about VMS. Overland Park has VMS along it's major arterials south of I-435. Are there other areas that do this?

[webny99]

Finding the GSV for this got me thinking about VMS. Overland Park has VMS along it's major arterials south of I-435. Are there other areas that do this?

I can't say I've ever seen a VMS on a surface street. NY 104 would have potential for VMS's, but there aren't any on the non-freeway portions.

[US 89]

Finding the GSV for this got me thinking about VMS. Overland Park has VMS along it's major arterials south of I-435. Are there other areas that do this?

The Salt Lake City area has some VMSs on some arterials leading up to freeways, although they're smaller than typical freeway VMSs. Utah also puts smaller VMSs at the bottom of most major mountain roads, which are used to warn of winter driving conditions, possible chain restrictions, and/or road closures.

[MCRoads]

Finding the GSV for this got me thinking about VMS. Overland Park has VMS along it's major arterials south of I-435. Are there other areas that do this?

Fairly common in CO, I can think of several locations on Powers Blvd.

[odditude]

Finding the GSV for this got me thinking about VMS. Overland Park has VMS along it's major arterials south of I-435. Are there other areas that do this?

Fairly common in CO, I can think of several locations on Powers Blvd.

not uncommon in South Jersey, either (NJ 38 in Cherry Hill)

[jakeroot]

I'm surprised more "compact APL" signs like this aren't common. I find them incredibly useful, and they save on space. Particularly helpful when one or more lanes don't actually exist yet. I see them around Seattle, but they're usually quite small.

I'm a big fan of these too.  They're very efficient and very effective.  Any other choice of signage style would have yielded a messier result.

And almost certainly a liberal use of the "LEFT XX LANES" or "RIGHT XX LANES" message, one of my least favorite guide sign messages.

Generally I agree about APL, but I'm not convinced when the arrows arent over the lanes.  Look how "scrunched" the example actually is: https://goo.gl/maps/ouNYDGjcxoN2

It would be difficult to interpret quickly. IMO.  Also, I'm not a fan of fewer lanes than arrows.  How is a driver to know where the extra lane is going to be created from?

The "more arrows than lanes" thing is definitely an issue, but it doesn't bother me too much. I don't think the sign is particularly confusing. You just have to be able to count from the outside-in to know which lane you need to be in. Probably easier to interpret than "LEFT XX LANES" or "RIGHT XX LANES" or "MIDDLE LANES", since those signs would be ginormous compared to what already exists.

It's pretty similar to some of the arrow signs used in South Africa, with the destinations to the left and right, and the configuration in the middle (closely spaced arrows).