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Places that have extremely old signals

Started by traffic light guy, June 09, 2018, 11:02:01 AM

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ErmineNotyours

Quote from: jakeroot on January 22, 2019, 09:13:03 PM
Quote from: ipeters61 on January 22, 2019, 10:49:40 AM
Found another example in northern Delaware, at the crosswalk at Brandywine High School: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8003149,-75.5224346,3a,37.5y,9.67h,96.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soC9mv1Eaux7ttRaushl7UA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I guess putting a signal on the mast would have been far too ridiculous, so they just crammed two onto one mount. Awesome. :-/

In Renton, they converted a crosswalk mast into a signal, and got this.


ipeters61

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Brandon

Quote from: ipeters61 on January 23, 2019, 12:08:39 PM
Reminds me of this assembly in Swarthmore PA: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8920043,-75.3530102,3a,75y,17.88h,79.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sets-_UBRttN8Hs7MSnnqcA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Not to mention that the side street, Harvard Avenue, has only one 8-inch assembly facing it that must be for pedestrians (one-way away from the intersection).
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

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seicer

Quote from: Brandon on January 23, 2019, 01:09:58 PM
Quote from: ipeters61 on January 23, 2019, 12:08:39 PM
Reminds me of this assembly in Swarthmore PA: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8920043,-75.3530102,3a,75y,17.88h,79.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sets-_UBRttN8Hs7MSnnqcA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Not to mention that the side street, Harvard Avenue, has only one 8-inch assembly facing it that must be for pedestrians (one-way away from the intersection).

It's one-way (going the other direction), so I think it's more of a pedestrian signal.

Ian

Quote from: ErmineNotyours on January 23, 2019, 11:30:40 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 22, 2019, 09:13:03 PM
Quote from: ipeters61 on January 22, 2019, 10:49:40 AM
Found another example in northern Delaware, at the crosswalk at Brandywine High School: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8003149,-75.5224346,3a,37.5y,9.67h,96.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soC9mv1Eaux7ttRaushl7UA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I guess putting a signal on the mast would have been far too ridiculous, so they just crammed two onto one mount. Awesome. :-/

In Renton, they converted a crosswalk mast into a signal, and got this.

I've seen similarly spaced signals used for protected left turns in some cases. Here's an example in Leesburg, Virginia: https://goo.gl/maps/2b7bAzWCJAK2

Quote from: seicer on January 23, 2019, 01:12:09 PM
Quote from: Brandon on January 23, 2019, 01:09:58 PM
Quote from: ipeters61 on January 23, 2019, 12:08:39 PM
Reminds me of this assembly in Swarthmore PA: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8920043,-75.3530102,3a,75y,17.88h,79.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sets-_UBRttN8Hs7MSnnqcA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Not to mention that the side street, Harvard Avenue, has only one 8-inch assembly facing it that must be for pedestrians (one-way away from the intersection).

It's one-way (going the other direction), so I think it's more of a pedestrian signal.

This is the correct answer. Many intersections throughout Pennsylvania will use 8" RYG heads in lieu of pedestrian signals.
UMaine graduate, former PennDOT employee, new SoCal resident.
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jakeroot

Quote from: Ian on January 23, 2019, 01:27:12 PM
Quote from: ErmineNotyours on January 23, 2019, 11:30:40 AM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 22, 2019, 09:13:03 PM
Quote from: ipeters61 on January 22, 2019, 10:49:40 AM
Found another example in northern Delaware, at the crosswalk at Brandywine High School: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8003149,-75.5224346,3a,37.5y,9.67h,96.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1soC9mv1Eaux7ttRaushl7UA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

I guess putting a signal on the mast would have been far too ridiculous, so they just crammed two onto one mount. Awesome. :-/

In Renton, they converted a crosswalk mast into a signal, and got this.

I've seen similarly spaced signals used for protected left turns in some cases. Here's an example in Leesburg, Virginia: https://goo.gl/maps/2b7bAzWCJAK2

That Leesburg example (and a similar example in IL) bothers me less than the Renton example. Only because, they aren't the only signals for that movement. Yes, the point of two signals is for burned-out bulbs, but since the advent of LED, their primary purpose has really been focused on improving signal visibility (written or unwritten). Having two right next to each other severely reduces the chance that you'd be able to see one, if the other was blocked.

kphoger

Quote from: jakeroot on January 24, 2019, 01:22:23 AM
Yes, the point of two signals is for burned-out bulbs, but since the advent of LED, their primary purpose has really been focused on improving signal visibility (written or unwritten).

I've never been big on that rationale.  I've seen a few cases of whole LED stoplight aspects flickering or being completely out.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

jakeroot

Quote from: kphoger on January 24, 2019, 02:04:45 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 24, 2019, 01:22:23 AM
Yes, the point of two signals is for burned-out bulbs, but since the advent of LED, their primary purpose has really been focused on improving signal visibility (written or unwritten).

I've never been big on that rationale.  I've seen a few cases of whole LED stoplight aspects flickering or being completely out.

Wait. So, you're for or against more than the minimum number of signals? I would think that, if you notice LED's having frequent technical issues, you'd want more of them as backup.

I hope your not implying that you prefer incandescent bulbs. Those things are a massive waste of energy, and burn out way too quickly. I see burned out bulbs in DC constantly, way more than I see LED's having technical issues.

kphoger

Quote from: jakeroot on January 24, 2019, 02:44:41 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 24, 2019, 02:04:45 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 24, 2019, 01:22:23 AM
Yes, the point of two signals is for burned-out bulbs, but since the advent of LED, their primary purpose has really been focused on improving signal visibility (written or unwritten).

I've never been big on that rationale.  I've seen a few cases of whole LED stoplight aspects flickering or being completely out.

Wait. So, you're for or against more than the minimum number of signals? I would think that, if you notice LED's having frequent technical issues, you'd want more of them as backup.

I hope your not implying that you prefer incandescent bulbs. Those things are a massive waste of energy, and burn out way too quickly. I see burned out bulbs in DC constantly, way more than I see LED's having technical issues.

I'm in favor of redundant signals for every movement.

I'm also in favor of LED if they figure out how to melt snow and ice buildup.  We recently had a minor snow and ice storm here, and all the north-facing signals were covered for a day or two.  I witnessed many drivers blowing through red lights because they had no idea the light was red.  (Why they didn't slow down or stop–as they should whenever a signal is dark–is another question, but I saw what I saw.)  And the majority of those signals were incandescent, which means LED signals would have done an even worse job of melting the ice.

But my point was that I don't think redundancy should be considered a non-issue just because LEDs are coming into vogue.  The reason is that I've seen LED signals fail.  And most of them were newer installations.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: kphoger on January 24, 2019, 02:53:04 PM
I'm also in favor of LED if they figure out how to melt snow and ice buildup. 

This type of visor was developed to greatly help with that: https://goo.gl/maps/77qsUuvULtr

I forget which state developed it, but NJ and DE are heavily using them now.

kphoger

Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 24, 2019, 03:01:58 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 24, 2019, 02:53:04 PM
I'm also in favor of LED if they figure out how to melt snow and ice buildup. 

This type of visor was developed to greatly help with that: https://goo.gl/maps/77qsUuvULtr

I forget which state developed it, but NJ and DE are heavily using them now.

With the wind we have here, visors don't help all that much.

For reference, here is one of the signals I specifically remember being completely covered in snow and ice with drivers running the red.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: kphoger on January 24, 2019, 03:05:59 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on January 24, 2019, 03:01:58 PM
Quote from: kphoger on January 24, 2019, 02:53:04 PM
I'm also in favor of LED if they figure out how to melt snow and ice buildup. 

This type of visor was developed to greatly help with that: https://goo.gl/maps/77qsUuvULtr

I forget which state developed it, but NJ and DE are heavily using them now.

With the wind we have here, visors don't help all that much.

For reference, here is one of the signals I specifically remember being completely covered in snow and ice with drivers running the red.

I think the wind blows thru the visor 'scoop', helping move the snow away.

https://www.mccain-inc.com/products/signals/signal-accessories/scoop-tunnel-visor

Colorado was where it was first developed and tested.


Big John


jeffandnicole

Quote from: Big John on January 24, 2019, 03:26:01 PM
Heated signals are in existence for this problem. example: https://products.currentbyge.com/transportation-lighting/led-traffic-signals/gtx-heated-shell

Is there any state or agency using them?  How much do they cost compared to a normal light...and how effective is the heating element?

kphoger

Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: kphoger on January 24, 2019, 03:31:12 PM
Quote from: Big John on January 24, 2019, 03:26:01 PM
Heated signals are in existence for this problem. example: https://products.currentbyge.com/transportation-lighting/led-traffic-signals/gtx-heated-shell

I'm aware they exist.  But are they actually being installed?

Their site had a 'customer success story' link.  Numerous stories about building lighting and other various applications, but they didn't have a single story regarding their traffic lights.

jakeroot

Quote from: kphoger on January 24, 2019, 02:53:04 PM
I'm in favor of redundant signals for every movement.

I'm also in favor of LED if they figure out how to melt snow and ice buildup.  We recently had a minor snow and ice storm here, and all the north-facing signals were covered for a day or two.  I witnessed many drivers blowing through red lights because they had no idea the light was red.  (Why they didn't slow down or stop–as they should whenever a signal is dark–is another question, but I saw what I saw.)  And the majority of those signals were incandescent, which means LED signals would have done an even worse job of melting the ice.

But my point was that I don't think redundancy should be considered a non-issue just because LEDs are coming into vogue.  The reason is that I've seen LED signals fail.  And most of them were newer installations.

Ahh, sorry. Misunderstood. I am also for redundancy (lots of it, preferably). It had just been my understanding that its original purpose in places like Illinois was not only for better visibility, but also in case one or more signals burned out. Since that particular issue isn't quite what it was, extra signals these days are really more about improving visibility, instead of providing backup.

I have heard about the snow issue, but it seems to me that burned out bulbs are (probably) more often problematic than snow-socked lenses.

PHLBOS

Quote from: ipeters61 on January 23, 2019, 12:08:39 PM
Reminds me of this assembly in Swarthmore PA: https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8920043,-75.3530102,3a,75y,17.88h,79.46t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sets-_UBRttN8Hs7MSnnqcA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
Believe it or not, those signalheads are relatively recent.  Here's the signalheads from a GSV circa 2007.  Interestingly, the older ones were 12-inchers.
GPS does NOT equal GOD

kphoger

Quote from: jakeroot on January 24, 2019, 05:16:18 PM
I have heard about the snow issue, but it seems to me that burned out bulbs are (probably) more often problematic than snow-socked lenses.

As long as there is redundancy, a burnt-out bulb causes no issues.  But, even with loads of redundancy, blowing snow can make every single signal in one direction functionally dark.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

jakeroot

Quote from: kphoger on January 25, 2019, 02:16:09 PM
Quote from: jakeroot on January 24, 2019, 05:16:18 PM
I have heard about the snow issue, but it seems to me that burned out bulbs are (probably) more often problematic than snow-socked lenses.

As long as there is redundancy, a burnt-out bulb causes no issues.  But, even with loads of redundancy, blowing snow can make every single signal in one direction functionally dark.

Burned out bulbs are fine, as long as another signal is visible. Even with redundancy, that's not always the case. Ideally, all signals should function normally all the time.

Regardless, the best option is for more inventive visors, like those with scoops, or those with shields. Alternatively, coating the signals with some sort of water-repellent. Ultimately, all of these solutions will be cheaper than maintaining incandescent signals.

CJResotko

#70
There are quite a few fixed 4-way signals in Michigan:

Croswell, MI (Crouse-Hinds type M)
https://youtu.be/cn9_v97l53c

East Tawas, MI (Sargent Sowell, but it's not permanent flashing mode)
https://youtu.be/erUpodPZDBs

East Lansing, MI (Eagle beacon, and it's actually the closest 4-way signal to where I live)
https://youtu.be/QUb9OMLkPeA

Onsted, MI (Sargent Sowell beacon)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0QxhQMc-200

I have videos of a few more old signals from Ohio, but I'll post those later.

traffic light guy

Has anyone ever documented this rare type L Marbelite signal before:

12-inch Marbelite Type L by thesignalman, on Flickr

I found this in Oak Lane (A neighborhood in northwest Philly), and this is the only one of these type L signal heads that I know of. I was told by other signalgeeks that this was a prototype of the regular 12-inch Marbelite head that was manufactured later on. I tried doing a few google searches, and nothing came up except for my photos. I think I'm the first person to ever document such a rare signal breed! The housing looks like a weird blend between the marbelite flattop and the Crouse-Hinds type H.

CJResotko

Here are a few more videos of mine of 4-way signals in Michigan:
Darley 4-way beacon in Maple Rapids: https://youtu.be/1YtBJS-fqB8
Another Darley 4-way beacon in Hubbardston: https://youtu.be/6A872gECiUw
Marbelite 4-way beacon in Westphalia: https://youtu.be/HDcPI45SAro

traffic light guy

Quote from: CJResotko on February 22, 2019, 06:23:01 PM
Here are a few more videos of mine of 4-way signals in Michigan:
Darley 4-way beacon in Maple Rapids: https://youtu.be/1YtBJS-fqB8
Another Darley 4-way beacon in Hubbardston: https://youtu.be/6A872gECiUw
Marbelite 4-way beacon in Westphalia: https://youtu.be/HDcPI45SAro

Nice beacons, especially the Darleys. Funny thing about my area, my area is filled with tons of ancient single faced signals, but no 4-ways. I've also noticed that I'm the only signalgeek who lives somewhere where mast-arms are used more often than span wires.

traffic light guy

#74
Here are a few extremely old signals in my area:


Here are a few ancient single-faced 12-inch Crouse-Hinds type Ms:
12-inch Crouse-Hinds type M by thesignalman, on Flickr

Here's another type M, this one has tunnel visors:
12-inch Crouse-Hinds type M by thesignalman, on Flickr

Here's a third type M, except this one is mounted overhead, instead of on the side like the others:
12-inch Crouse-Hinds type M by thesignalman, on Flickr


One intersection has these two square-door bull's eyes:
Square-Door Econolite Bullseye by thesignalman, on Flickr

Square-door Econolite Bullseye by thesignalman, on Flickr

Here's a Marbelite mounted beside a Highway Signal & Sign Co.:
Marbelite with a Highway Signal & Sign Co. by thesignalman, on Flickr

Here's an old Eagle, which is nothing too special, since this is one out of several of them, spread throughout Philly:
12-inch Eagle Flatback by thesignalman, on Flickr

And some Crouse-Hinds type Rs, which just like the Eagles, are nothing too specail:
12" Crouse-Hinds type R signals by thesignalman, on Flickr

12-inch Crouse-Hinds type R by thesignalman, on Flickr



There was a side-mounted bullseye that was at the same intersection as the type L, but it got replaced.



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