Roads where same-direction traffic is split by another road

[jakeroot]

I don't know if this counts, but in Lebanon, PA, US 422 West runs one way on Cumberland.  However, for one block, the end of PA 897 North runs the opposite way with a concrete barrier physically separating the two so that North 897 can get to 5th Ave.

I've always been fascinated by this intersection.

470 Benjamin Franklin Hwy
https://goo.gl/maps/URDhv8erRVr

It doesn't quite fit what I had in mind. BUT, that is indeed a very unusual contraflow setup there, so I do appreciate you posting it!

How is that a contraflow setup?  From what I'm seeing, traffic still drives on the right.

"Contraflow" just means that traffic is flowing in the opposite direction of surrounding lanes, nothing to do with LHT or RHT. In that link, there's a one-way road that briefly features a lane going "upstream" if you will. Same thing here and here, though these are both for use by specific vehicles (buses and bikes respectively).

[jakeroot]

I think this might even be on the edge of what I would count, but this old 1972 photo from Eugene, OR (posted in this article) shows a road splitting off near a RIRO from a bridge. Make sure to keep to the left side of the median of then-Ferry Street, otherwise you'll be going down the wrong way of the bridge! Perhaps not surprisingly, Ferry Street has since been cut back a bit: https://goo.gl/ZxqYk4

Thanks to pdx-wanderer for the link to the website. Check out his thread on the article: https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=24030.0

[kphoger]

"Contraflow" just means that traffic is flowing in the opposite direction of surrounding lanes, nothing to do with LHT or RHT.

So, every two-way road is a contraflow setup?

[jakeroot]

"Contraflow" just means that traffic is flowing in the opposite direction of surrounding lanes, nothing to do with LHT or RHT.

So, every two-way road is a contraflow setup?

Obviously no. Contraflow lanes are single lanes going the opposite direction along roads that are otherwise one-way. Lebanon has a one-way couplet through town, minus this one-block section of two-way street, allowing for traffic to continue northbound on 5th without diverting needlessly far away.

Typically, contraflow lanes are reserved for specific vehicles, like buses or bikes, but that's not a requirement.

[kphoger]

"Contraflow" just means that traffic is flowing in the opposite direction of surrounding lanes, nothing to do with LHT or RHT.

So, every two-way road is a contraflow setup?

Obviously no. Contraflow lanes are single lanes going the opposite direction along roads that are otherwise one-way. Lebanon has a one-way couplet through town, minus this one-block section of two-way street, allowing for traffic to continue northbound on 5th without diverting needlessly far away.

Typically, contraflow lanes are reserved for specific vehicles, like buses or bikes, but that's not a requirement.

Hmm, OK.  I'm familiar with another location like that, but I've never thought of it as a contraflow setup before.  I just thought of it as a "normal" city block in the middle of an otherwise one-way street.

[jakeroot]

I'm familiar with another location like that, but I've never thought of it as a contraflow setup before.  I just thought of it as a "normal" city block in the middle of an otherwise one-way street.

Technically, that's what it is. "Contraflow" is just short-hand for that style of setup, especially if it's added later. I don't think "contraflow" has a hard definition.

[Amtrakprod]

Any continuous flow interchange has this(not sure if it's mentioned)



iPhone

[jakeroot]

Any continuous flow interchange has this(not sure if it's mentioned)

Very good point, though at least those are well-signed and well-marked.

[Amtrakprod]

If those do not know what a CFI is here's a picture:


iPhone

[Amtrakprod]

Also counterflow bike lanes:
Sorry for bringing up bikes again lol


iPhone

[jakeroot]

Technically, contraflow lanes don't count, as there's still only two lines of traffic, one each direction.

[Amtrakprod]

Technically, contraflow lanes don't count, as there's still only two lines of traffic, one each direction.

Yep, forgot for a second lmao

[ipeters61]

Also counterflow bike lanes:
Sorry for bringing up bikes again lol

I was on Newark DE's bike committee when they implemented that, as an experiment, too (to deal with an offset four way intersection involving a one way through street - of course when they opened this, people started going the wrong way in the new bike lane... ): https://www.newarkpostonline.com/news/contraflow-lane-gives-cyclists-alternative-route-on-main-street/article_ed130171-e972-5d6d-b6ea-96ec1e0837b7.html

[MantyMadTown]

Also counterflow bike lanes:
Sorry for bringing up bikes again lol


iPhone

We have several of these around UW-Madison. One on University Ave, one on N Charter St, and one on N Orchard St. All of those streets are one way in their respective stretches.

[jakeroot]

Also counterflow bike lanes: https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181206/5e3ce5224ea697b6df88b4dcd88a7cfe.jpg
Sorry for bringing up bikes again lol

I was on Newark DE's bike committee when they implemented that, as an experiment, too (to deal with an offset four way intersection involving a one way through street - of course when they opened this, people started going the wrong way in the new bike lane... ): https://www.newarkpostonline.com/news/contraflow-lane-gives-cyclists-alternative-route-on-main-street/article_ed130171-e972-5d6d-b6ea-96ec1e0837b7.html

Did it not occur to those drivers that they didn't fit? 

[kphoger]

Did it not occur to those drivers that they didn't fit? 

It is totally understandable to me that a driver facing a double solid yellow line might assume it's OK to drive on the right side of that line–when that has indeed been the case in probably every single instance for as long as they've been driving.  I bet a lot of people, when facing a narrow lane, wouldn't immediately think to themselves "that's because I'm not allowed to drive in it," but rather "my lane is really narrow so I'd better be careful here."

[ipeters61]

Also counterflow bike lanes: https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181206/5e3ce5224ea697b6df88b4dcd88a7cfe.jpg
Sorry for bringing up bikes again lol

I was on Newark DE's bike committee when they implemented that, as an experiment, too (to deal with an offset four way intersection involving a one way through street - of course when they opened this, people started going the wrong way in the new bike lane... ): https://www.newarkpostonline.com/news/contraflow-lane-gives-cyclists-alternative-route-on-main-street/article_ed130171-e972-5d6d-b6ea-96ec1e0837b7.html

Did it not occur to those drivers that they didn't fit? 

Should have been more clear, bicyclists were going the wrong way in the new bike lane. 

[kphoger]

Also counterflow bike lanes: https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181206/5e3ce5224ea697b6df88b4dcd88a7cfe.jpg
Sorry for bringing up bikes again lol

I was on Newark DE's bike committee when they implemented that, as an experiment, too (to deal with an offset four way intersection involving a one way through street - of course when they opened this, people started going the wrong way in the new bike lane... ): https://www.newarkpostonline.com/news/contraflow-lane-gives-cyclists-alternative-route-on-main-street/article_ed130171-e972-5d6d-b6ea-96ec1e0837b7.html

Did it not occur to those drivers that they didn't fit? 

Should have been more clear, bicyclists were going the wrong way in the new bike lane. 

I could see that too.  Imagine cycling along that one-way street in the direction of vehicular traffic.  You could either (a) cycle with traffic in a driving lane and not be able to see people coming up from behind you, or (b) cycle against traffic in a lane specifically marked out for bicycles and not have to worry about cars and trucks.

[jakeroot]

It is totally understandable to me that a driver facing a double solid yellow line might assume it's OK to drive on the right side of that line–when that has indeed been the case in probably every single instance for as long as they've been driving.  I bet a lot of people, when facing a narrow lane, wouldn't immediately think to themselves "that's because I'm not allowed to drive in it," but rather "my lane is really narrow so I'd better be careful here."

True, true. Some drivers really are that stupid (even if that's not actually the case, as was made clear by ipeters61). Nevertheless, there are situations where drivers face a double-yellow where entry is prohibited, especially in situations where the road is bus-only. Not saying that compliance for those is 100%, but drivers really should know to watch for signs too.

Imagine cycling along that one-way street in the direction of vehicular traffic.  You could either (a) cycle with traffic in a driving lane and not be able to see people coming up from behind you, or (b) cycle against traffic in a lane specifically marked out for bicycles and not have to worry about cars and trucks.

Another good point. Cyclists will often do whatever they can to maintain their own safety, lines and signals be-damned. And that's fine with me, since they are very susceptible to injury without a roll-cage, etc. I think that's why cities should focus on two-way bike lanes, since cyclists will often just ride where they want. May as well make it as safe as possible.

I'm guessing the city wasn't necessarily thinking of the contraflow lane as a bike lane, as much as they were thinking of it as a lane that was only wide enough to support bikes. The expectation being that cyclists going with traffic would use the regular lanes, and the cyclists going against traffic would use the contraflow lane.

[ipeters61]

It is totally understandable to me that a driver facing a double solid yellow line might assume it's OK to drive on the right side of that line–when that has indeed been the case in probably every single instance for as long as they've been driving.  I bet a lot of people, when facing a narrow lane, wouldn't immediately think to themselves "that's because I'm not allowed to drive in it," but rather "my lane is really narrow so I'd better be careful here."

True, true. Some drivers really are that stupid (even if that's not actually the case, as was made clear by ipeters61). Nevertheless, there are situations where drivers face a double-yellow where entry is prohibited, especially in situations where the road is bus-only. Not saying that compliance for those is 100%, but drivers really should know to watch for signs too.

Imagine cycling along that one-way street in the direction of vehicular traffic.  You could either (a) cycle with traffic in a driving lane and not be able to see people coming up from behind you, or (b) cycle against traffic in a lane specifically marked out for bicycles and not have to worry about cars and trucks.

Another good point. Cyclists will often do whatever they can to maintain their own safety, lines and signals be-damned. And that's fine with me, since they are very susceptible to injury without a roll-cage, etc. I think that's why cities should focus on two-way bike lanes, since cyclists will often just ride where they want. May as well make it as safe as possible.

I'm guessing the city wasn't necessarily thinking of the contraflow lane as a bike lane, as much as they were thinking of it as a lane that was only wide enough to support bikes. The expectation being that cyclists going with traffic would use the regular lanes, and the cyclists going against traffic would use the contraflow lane.

Sorry, another issue I should have brought up is that South College Avenue (the southern leg of the disjointed street) would see bicyclists riding the wrong way in the new bike lane associated with the contraflow lane (i.e. going northbound in a southbound lane, which was marked with arrows as a southbound lane) and then riding the wrong way up North College Avenue.  There was supposed to be an evaluation done on the actual use of the new bike lane, but the cameras we used (I used to serve as the chair of the evaluation committee on BikeNewark) did not capture enough information for DelDOT and UDel to extract any information from them.

But then again, people consistently rode against traffic on East Delaware Avenue, another one way street...which was annoying because I was "killing my bike" as my roommate would describe it, riding the correct way on that bike lane.

[kphoger]

I think it's a little bit (though not a large bit) silly to claim that walking against traffic is safe but cycling against traffic is dangerous.

[ipeters61]

I think it's a little bit (though not a large bit) silly to claim that walking against traffic is safe but cycling against traffic is dangerous.

I guess that drivers are looking mainly for traffic heading one way on a divided highway (making a right turn) so they get shocked by a bicycle approaching in the opposite direction.  Bear in mind that a pedestrian is only going 3-5mph, a bicycle is going up to 15mph (or more), so their approach is quicker and more sudden than that of a pedestrian.

I think we're pretty off topic at this point, though.