I-67: TN, KY, IN

[silverback1065]

let them waste their time, INDOT isn't going to build this. US 31, US 30, I-69, plus widening 65 and 70 are light years more important than this.  I'd even put finishing 469 as a better idea than is (and finishing 469 isn't something that's being considered anymore)

[andy]

let them waste their time, INDOT isn't going to build this. US 31, US 30, I-69, plus widening 65 and 70 are light years more important than this.  I'd even put finishing 469 as a better idea than is (and finishing 469 isn't something that's being considered anymore)

Likely true. Even as a fictional highway proposal, it is more interesting than going to Washington or Crane.

[tdindy88]

What exactly is "finishing 469," I'm kind of curious. Is it a beltway around the west and south sides of Fort Wayne, or extending it US 24 via Lafayette Center Road?

Back on topic, I agree that I-69 and its construction will be it for a while, other than a proper Jasper/Huntingburg bypass. Owensboro is just going to have to get over the fact that they are not greatly located, it's why Indy's the Crossroads of America and they aren't.

[silverback1065]

What exactly is "finishing 469," I'm kind of curious. Is it a beltway around the west and south sides of Fort Wayne, or extending it US 24 via Lafayette Center Road?

Back on topic, I agree that I-69 and its construction will be it for a while, other than a proper Jasper/Huntingburg bypass. Owensboro is just going to have to get over the fact that they are not greatly located, it's why Indy's the Crossroads of America and they aren't.

469 was originally supposed to be a full circle, the portion west of 69 never got built, don't even think they even had concept drawings for that section.  this will never be finished, no reason to. 

[hoosierguy]

Building through French Lick would devastate the natural environment. Section 4 of I-69 was bad enough. We need to protect what remains of forested areas in Indiana.

[thefro]

Looks like this proposal is simply a "connect-the-dots" mimicking of the I-69 segment south of Bloomington, except serving other towns to the east, with the new section connecting to the expressway section of US 231 south of I-64, including the Natcher Bridge into KY.  While the idea of proving improved access from the IN 37 corridor south of Bloomington to an existing high-capacity Ohio River crossing isn't totally without merit (and it is more useful than previous corridors extending straight up US 231 to I-69), a new-terrain connector through territory equally as difficult as that along I-69 would probably not be a financially viable venture in the foreseeable future.  Chances are that any further freeway construction will be based on upgrades to existing arterials or expressways such as US 31 north of Indy, or possibly the Hoosier Heartland E-W corridor -- simply for purposes of cost containment.  The only readily "convertible" part of the corridor as shown is US 231 from the Ohio River north to I-64; IN 37 is largely a "basic" rural facility with unfettered access points; like the stretch north of Bloomington now becoming part of I-69, it would require extensive relocation or truncation of access points plus numerous grade separations -- and that is a very costly undertaking.  I don't see INDOT embarking on a second large-scale project in this region anytime soon.

Agreed.  IN 37 south of Bloomington would probably be even more of a headache then Bloomington and points north since the terrain is a lot rougher and the new-terrain connector would be challenging.

I think the only thing that makes logical sense is to work towards making US 231 four-lanes to Jasper, since that would stop the whining from them over losing out on I-69.

[sparker]

I think the only thing that makes logical sense is to work towards making US 231 four-lanes to Jasper, since that would stop the whining from them over losing out on I-69.

What would be appropriate for the US 231 corridor is a "classic" upper-Midwest expressway arrangement:  a controlled-access expressway in the rural sections, with freeway bypasses of Huntingburg, Jasper, and Logootee, and extending between the existing expressway end at I-64 and I-69 to the north.  That would provide a through commercial corridor with much less cost that a combination of new-terrain freeway and a similar facility south on 231. 

[Ryctor2018]

Looks like Jasper is getting serious about the Mid-State corridor: https://duboiscountyherald.com/b/jasper-commits-14m-for-midstate-corridor-study

[silverback1065]

what a waste of money for an interstate. but it looks like it may be for a simple divided highway, that's a good idea.

[Ryctor2018]

I don't know how long this article will remain free on the Bloomington H-T website. The article basically states that INDOT approved of an Environmental Study for the Mid-State corridor.
https://www.hoosiertimes.com/springs_valley_herald/environmental-study-to-start-for-highway/article_deb61ea3-99f3-56d4-8d77-b48a218aca14.html

[andy]

I don't know how long this article will remain free on the Bloomington H-T website. The article basically states that INDOT approved of an Environmental Study for the Mid-State corridor.
https://www.hoosiertimes.com/springs_valley_herald/environmental-study-to-start-for-highway/article_deb61ea3-99f3-56d4-8d77-b48a218aca14.html

For another take on the EIS study, an Owensboro paper has an article which is not satisfied that this is (directly) supportive of an I-67;
http://www.messenger-inquirer.com/news/local/midstate-corridor-project-gets-study/article_766ceda6-056c-5475-aaf0-4e85f686064f.html

According to IDOT, only an unpaved portion of highway between I-69 and I-64 through Jasper and Huntingburg in Indiana will be part of a three-year Tier 1 Environmental Impact Statement needed to apply federal funds to any future project.

I'll admit I don't know what "unpaved portion" means.
The article further claims this means US231 between I-64 and Owensboro will not be considered for upgrade to an interstate and;

That's been Mayor Tom Watson's concern for a while. He has said interstate improvements in Evansville and Henderson and between Louisville and Bowling Green leave Owensboro on a cul-de-sac. The Midstate Corridor is, or was, the only proposed project that could put an end to that.

How sad...
Would that also exclude an upgrade of SR 37 between Mitchell and Bloomington?
Of course I could be giving the article too much credibility.

[Captain Jack]

Does anyone have the actual traffic counts of US 231 between Owensboro and I-64? It has to be the lightest amount of traffic by a considerable amount of any divided US highway in the state. I would guess that most divided state routes are also higher.  In it's current condition, it is over built and perfectly adequate.

The root of all of this is so a town of 50K people in Kentucky can have a 2-di interstate highway. With that in mind, why doesn't Owensboro just push for the Natcher and Audubon parkways to be combined into a single 2-di, connecting Bowling Green to Henderson? This would be far more likely to get done, and IMO, would be more beneficial and millions cheaper.

[SW Indiana]

Does anyone have the actual traffic counts of US 231 between Owensboro and I-64? It has to be the lightest amount of traffic by a considerable amount of any divided US highway in the state. I would guess that most divided state routes are also higher.  In it's current condition, it is over built and perfectly adequate.

INDOT has a database on their website. As of 2017, it's as high as 8,400 just north of the Ohio River, drops to 6,000 just south of SR 162 (Santa Claus) and goes back to 7,500 as you get closer to I-64. I agree, the current condition is adequate, especially since there aren't any stoplights.

For comparison, I-69 just north of US 50 is 7,000 as of 2017.

[jnewkirk77]

Does anyone have the actual traffic counts of US 231 between Owensboro and I-64? It has to be the lightest amount of traffic by a considerable amount of any divided US highway in the state. I would guess that most divided state routes are also higher.  In it's current condition, it is over built and perfectly adequate.

INDOT has a database on their website. As of 2017, it's as high as 8,400 just north of the Ohio River, drops to 6,000 just south of SR 162 (Santa Claus) and goes back to 7,500 as you get closer to I-64. I agree, the current condition is adequate, especially since there aren't any stoplights.

For comparison, I-69 just north of US 50 is 7,000 as of 2017.

231 traffic has just about doubled since the year it opened. More in some areas (Rockport-Owensboro and from 162 to 64), less in others.  I didn't really expect to see as much traffic as I do.

That being said, there are better ways of serving the traffic north of I-64 than building a full four-lane.  That might be a viable concept to bypass Jasper and Huntingburg, but a shared four-lane concept within the existing footprint would work outside of that area.

[jnewkirk77]

I don't know how long this article will remain free on the Bloomington H-T website. The article basically states that INDOT approved of an Environmental Study for the Mid-State corridor.
https://www.hoosiertimes.com/springs_valley_herald/environmental-study-to-start-for-highway/article_deb61ea3-99f3-56d4-8d77-b48a218aca14.html

For another take on the EIS study, an Owensboro paper has an article which is not satisfied that this is (directly) supportive of an I-67;
http://www.messenger-inquirer.com/news/local/midstate-corridor-project-gets-study/article_766ceda6-056c-5475-aaf0-4e85f686064f.html

According to IDOT, only an unpaved portion of highway between I-69 and I-64 through Jasper and Huntingburg in Indiana will be part of a three-year Tier 1 Environmental Impact Statement needed to apply federal funds to any future project.

I'll admit I don't know what "unpaved portion" means.
The article further claims this means US231 between I-64 and Owensboro will not be considered for upgrade to an interstate and;

That's been Mayor Tom Watson's concern for a while. He has said interstate improvements in Evansville and Henderson and between Louisville and Bowling Green leave Owensboro on a cul-de-sac. The Midstate Corridor is, or was, the only proposed project that could put an end to that.

How sad...
Would that also exclude an upgrade of SR 37 between Mitchell and Bloomington?
Of course I could be giving the article too much credibility.

Oh, boo hoo. "What can Indiana do for Owensboro," that's what Tom Watson wants to know. Good Lord.

[SW Indiana]

231 traffic has just about doubled since the year it opened. More in some areas (Rockport-Owensboro and from 162 to 64), less in others.  I didn't really expect to see as much traffic as I do.

That being said, there are better ways of serving the traffic north of I-64 than building a full four-lane.  That might be a viable concept to bypass Jasper and Huntingburg, but a shared four-lane concept within the existing footprint would work outside of that area.
[/quote]

Yup. i think a four lane bypass through dubois would be sufficient, perhaps an interchange instead of where a stoplight would be required, and north of there, upgrade 231 to a super-two or whatnot, and possibly construct same passing lanes where feasible.

[silverback1065]

huntingburg and jasper should be bypassed, a 2 lane one would likely be fine.  and building a 2 digit interstate in that area of kentucky is a waste of a number.  not every city needs an interstate, they're already wasting money giving tunica mississippi one, there are subdivisions larger than that city.

[silverback1065]

I don't know how long this article will remain free on the Bloomington H-T website. The article basically states that INDOT approved of an Environmental Study for the Mid-State corridor.
https://www.hoosiertimes.com/springs_valley_herald/environmental-study-to-start-for-highway/article_deb61ea3-99f3-56d4-8d77-b48a218aca14.html

For another take on the EIS study, an Owensboro paper has an article which is not satisfied that this is (directly) supportive of an I-67;
http://www.messenger-inquirer.com/news/local/midstate-corridor-project-gets-study/article_766ceda6-056c-5475-aaf0-4e85f686064f.html

According to IDOT, only an unpaved portion of highway between I-69 and I-64 through Jasper and Huntingburg in Indiana will be part of a three-year Tier 1 Environmental Impact Statement needed to apply federal funds to any future project.

I'll admit I don't know what "unpaved portion" means.
The article further claims this means US231 between I-64 and Owensboro will not be considered for upgrade to an interstate and;

That's been Mayor Tom Watson's concern for a while. He has said interstate improvements in Evansville and Henderson and between Louisville and Bowling Green leave Owensboro on a cul-de-sac. The Midstate Corridor is, or was, the only proposed project that could put an end to that.

How sad...
Would that also exclude an upgrade of SR 37 between Mitchell and Bloomington?
Of course I could be giving the article too much credibility.

is that paper aware illinois isn't north of owensboro? 

[jnewkirk77]

I wish all the people who whine about content and errors in the Evansville Courier & Press could see the "Messy Ink." 

[sparker]

Must be something in the Owensboro City Hall water that makes mayors go positively bazonkers about getting an Interstate corridor through town.  And they always manage to drag Indiana into the mix -- ignoring the old adage about leading a horse to water!  No IN official entity is going to prioritize a new Interstate along US 231 south of Crane; maybe down the line the portion from I-64 down to the Ohio River bridge may well be upgraded to a freeway -- but doing the other 50-odd miles to similar standards just isn't in the cards. 

Watson (and predecessor Payne, for that matter) have always needed to face reality and stick to jurisdictions where they might just be able to wield a bit of influence -- within their own state.  IN has much bigger fish to fry (e.g. I-69 section 6) these days.     

[NWI_Irish96]

Must be something in the Owensboro City Hall water that makes mayors go positively bazonkers about getting an Interstate corridor through town.  And they always manage to drag Indiana into the mix -- ignoring the old adage about leading a horse to water!  No IN official entity is going to prioritize a new Interstate along US 231 south of Crane; maybe down the line the portion from I-64 down to the Ohio River bridge may well be upgraded to a freeway -- but doing the other 50-odd miles to similar standards just isn't in the cards. 

Watson (and predecessor Payne, for that matter) have always needed to face reality and stick to jurisdictions where they might just be able to wield a bit of influence -- within their own state.  IN has much bigger fish to fry (e.g. I-69 section 6) these days.     

Even though the road is already divided and 4 lanes, it would still cost quite a bit to convert 231 south of 64 to freeway and would be an incredible waste of money.  If Owensboro wants it, let Owensboro pay for it.  Indiana needs to finish the last section of I-69 and continue 6-laning 65 and 70.

[hbelkins]

Last available traffic count for US 231 between US 60 and the river is just short of 5,700, with 31 percent of that being truck traffic.

South of the US 231/US 60 intersection, it jumps to 10,000 VPD but the truck percentage drops to 24 percent.

West of the KY 144 interchange, the count is more than 36,000. It drops to 31,000 just prior to the Natcher interchange, then jumps to 35,200 west of the Natcher.

The Natcher Parkway is going to become an x65, so Owensboro's going to get its interstate. And once upon a time, the Audubon was going to be an x69, but those signs have been absent from the Audubon for several years.

[Interstate 69 Fan]

If I-67 gets designated anywhere, I think it should be along US 31 north of Indianapolis.

[sparker]

If I-67 gets designated anywhere, I think it should be along US 31 north of Indianapolis.

As I iterated over in the "what new I-numbers will be used" thread in General, the prospects for I-67 over US 31 north of Indy will increase as sections of US 31 are upgraded; eventually there will be short segments of interim conventional highway between the upgraded segments -- and the concept of "finishing it off" will likely be tied to an Interstate designation (perhaps, if recent history is any indication, through a new Congressionally-designated HPC with I-67 attached).  But with the current rate of upgrades, don't look for that to happen in the near term; right now, the incremental approach is what will continue.

[jnewkirk77]

Last available traffic count for US 231 between US 60 and the river is just short of 5,700, with 31 percent of that being truck traffic.

South of the US 231/US 60 intersection, it jumps to 10,000 VPD but the truck percentage drops to 24 percent.

West of the KY 144 interchange, the count is more than 36,000. It drops to 31,000 just prior to the Natcher interchange, then jumps to 35,200 west of the Natcher.

The Natcher Parkway is going to become an x65, so Owensboro's going to get its interstate. And once upon a time, the Audubon was going to be an x69, but those signs have been absent from the Audubon for several years.

Is that 5700 still the number from 2012? If so, I would make the case for it being a good 30-50% higher than that now. Obviously KSP sees something out there that they like, given the number of traffic stops I see each week. Of course, the ridiculous 55 speed limit has more than a little to do with that.