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Sports Realignment Ideas

Started by mrsman, January 31, 2016, 01:12:42 AM

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Duke87

On the other hand, merging the leagues and creating geographic divisions would guarantee that the two teams in the World Series would be from different parts of the country. So it would benefit TV ratings... but it would not enable matchups like Yankees-Red Sox since they'd still be in the same division and thus only one could survive the playoffs.

This is, however, entirely against the traditional spirit of the game and would drive many more older fans away. Not that MLB hasn't already shown they are perfectly willing to do that...


If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.


Alps

Quote from: Duke87 on June 10, 2016, 12:48:02 AM
On the other hand, merging the leagues and creating geographic divisions would guarantee that the two teams in the World Series would be from different parts of the country. So it would benefit TV ratings... but it would not enable matchups like Yankees-Red Sox since they'd still be in the same division and thus only one could survive the playoffs.

This is, however, entirely against the traditional spirit of the game and would drive many more older fans away. Not that MLB hasn't already shown they are perfectly willing to do that...

The traditional spirit of the game is built on rivalries. Geographical divisions make for good rivalries. But yes, it would require resolution of the DL issue. MLB: The only major sport where teams have different dimensions of fields and different rules in the same league.

dvferyance

#52
Quote from: Henry on February 09, 2016, 10:37:24 AM
If expansion comes around again, here's what I would like to see for the Big Four:

MLB
AL East: Charlotte
AL Central: Louisville
AL West: Salt Lake City
NL East: Montreal
NL Central: Memphis
NL West: Portland

NFL
NFC East: Toronto
NFC North: Columbus
NFC South: San Antonio
NFC West: St. Louis
AFC East: Norfolk
AFC North: Chicago (second team to complement da Bears)
AFC South: Oklahoma City
AFC West: Portland

NBA
Atlantic: Pittsburgh
Central: Cincinnati
Southeast: Baltimore
Northwest: Seattle
Southwest: Kansas City
Pacific: San Diego

NHL
Atlantic: Hartford, Quebec
Metropolitan: Cleveland, Cincinnati
Midwest: Kansas City
Pacific: Seattle
I highly doubt Louisville will get a baseball team Indianapolis would make a lot more sense. I also highly doubt Montreal will get another team support there was pitiful. There are already 2 NFL teams in Ohio so I would doubt Columbus would work and I am sure Jerry Jones would put up a big fight if the NFL ever wanted to expand in San Antonio or Oklahoma City. Pittsburgh is too small of a market for both the NBA and NHL and there is no way the NHL would allow 3 teams in Ohio.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: Alps on June 10, 2016, 01:12:36 AM
Quote from: Duke87 on June 10, 2016, 12:48:02 AM
On the other hand, merging the leagues and creating geographic divisions would guarantee that the two teams in the World Series would be from different parts of the country. So it would benefit TV ratings... but it would not enable matchups like Yankees-Red Sox since they'd still be in the same division and thus only one could survive the playoffs.

This is, however, entirely against the traditional spirit of the game and would drive many more older fans away. Not that MLB hasn't already shown they are perfectly willing to do that...

The traditional spirit of the game is built on rivalries. Geographical divisions make for good rivalries. But yes, it would require resolution of the DL issue. MLB: The only major sport where teams have different dimensions of fields and different rules in the same league.

Often thought about that.  So, the pitching mound is 60'6" from home plate. The base paths are 90' long each, and the foul lines are straight down the 1st and 3rd base line.  But after that, everything can differ.

People get so upset when American League teams play National League teams.  Yet, this stuff goes on in the other major sporting leagues without a 2nd thought.


jp the roadgeek

My idea for realignment would be geographical.  For now, it would keep 6 divisions, but would go to 8 4 team divisions if there were expansion (there is a sentiment to bring baseball back to Montreal, and another city like Charlotte or Vegas could get a team).  In my 32 team league, teams would play divisional foes 14 times, teams in the other 3 divisions in their geographical "conference" 6 times, and series against the other conference 3 times.  Teams within divisions would be grouped together into 2-team "pods" that would travel together and play a week at other pods' ballparks. Example: the Yankees and Mets would go to Chicago and the Mets would play a 3 game series at Wrigley and the Yankees a 3 game series at US Cellular, then they'd swap.  The playoffs would take the top 12 teams overall regardless of division.  The top 4 teams get byes.  The next 8 teams would all play a Wildcard game.  The winners of those games would be matched up with the bye teams in the Division Series.  The length of the remaining serieses would remain the same, but home field in the World Series would go to the highest seed.

For my alignments, they're not totally geographically aligned, but relatively close while preserving many of the natural rivalries within a division (Sox/Yanks, Cubs/Cardinals, Dodgers/Giants)

My 30 team alignment:                                                                      My 32 team alignment (using pods, and Montreal and Charlotte as the expansion teams)

East: BOS, NYY, NYM, PHI, PIT                                                            Atlantic: BOS/PHI, NYM/NYY
South: ATL, BAL, MIA, TB, WAS                                                           East: ATL/CHA, BAL/WAS                                                         
Central: CIN, CLE, DET, MIL, TOR                                                        South: CIN/CLE, MIA/TB
Midwest: CHC, CWS, KC, MIN, STL                                                       North: DET/PIT, MON/TOR
Mountain: ARZ, COL, HOU, TEX, SD
West: LAA, LAD, OAK, SF, SEA                                                             Central: CHC/CWS, KC/STL
                                                                                                         Midwest: HOU/TEX, MIL/MIN
                                                                                                         Mountain: ARZ/SD, COL/SEA
                                                                                                         West: LAA/LAD, OAK/SF
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

dvferyance

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on June 11, 2016, 02:35:55 PM
My idea for realignment would be geographical.  For now, it would keep 6 divisions, but would go to 8 4 team divisions if there were expansion (there is a sentiment to bring baseball back to Montreal, and another city like Charlotte or Vegas could get a team).  In my 32 team league, teams would play divisional foes 14 times, teams in the other 3 divisions in their geographical "conference" 6 times, and series against the other conference 3 times.  Teams within divisions would be grouped together into 2-team "pods" that would travel together and play a week at other pods' ballparks. Example: the Yankees and Mets would go to Chicago and the Mets would play a 3 game series at Wrigley and the Yankees a 3 game series at US Cellular, then they'd swap.  The playoffs would take the top 12 teams overall regardless of division.  The top 4 teams get byes.  The next 8 teams would all play a Wildcard game.  The winners of those games would be matched up with the bye teams in the Division Series.  The length of the remaining serieses would remain the same, but home field in the World Series would go to the highest seed.

For my alignments, they're not totally geographically aligned, but relatively close while preserving many of the natural rivalries within a division (Sox/Yanks, Cubs/Cardinals, Dodgers/Giants)

My 30 team alignment:                                                                      My 32 team alignment (using pods, and Montreal and Charlotte as the expansion teams)

East: BOS, NYY, NYM, PHI, PIT                                                            Atlantic: BOS/PHI, NYM/NYY
South: ATL, BAL, MIA, TB, WAS                                                           East: ATL/CHA, BAL/WAS                                                         
Central: CIN, CLE, DET, MIL, TOR                                                        South: CIN/CLE, MIA/TB
Midwest: CHC, CWS, KC, MIN, STL                                                       North: DET/PIT, MON/TOR
Mountain: ARZ, COL, HOU, TEX, SD
West: LAA, LAD, OAK, SF, SEA                                                             Central: CHC/CWS, KC/STL
                                                                                                         Midwest: HOU/TEX, MIL/MIN
                                                                                                         Mountain: ARZ/SD, COL/SEA
                                                                                                         West: LAA/LAD, OAK/SF
Why does everybody think Montreal is going to get another team? Support for the Expos was dismal why an expansion team there? There are plenty of other cities that would make way more sense for expansion like Indianapolis, Portland, Memphis, San Antonio, New Orleans, Nashville ect.

jp the roadgeek

Quote from: dvferyance on June 11, 2016, 05:31:21 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on June 11, 2016, 02:35:55 PM
My idea for realignment would be geographical.  For now, it would keep 6 divisions, but would go to 8 4 team divisions if there were expansion (there is a sentiment to bring baseball back to Montreal, and another city like Charlotte or Vegas could get a team).  In my 32 team league, teams would play divisional foes 14 times, teams in the other 3 divisions in their geographical "conference" 6 times, and series against the other conference 3 times.  Teams within divisions would be grouped together into 2-team "pods" that would travel together and play a week at other pods' ballparks. Example: the Yankees and Mets would go to Chicago and the Mets would play a 3 game series at Wrigley and the Yankees a 3 game series at US Cellular, then they'd swap.  The playoffs would take the top 12 teams overall regardless of division.  The top 4 teams get byes.  The next 8 teams would all play a Wildcard game.  The winners of those games would be matched up with the bye teams in the Division Series.  The length of the remaining serieses would remain the same, but home field in the World Series would go to the highest seed.

For my alignments, they're not totally geographically aligned, but relatively close while preserving many of the natural rivalries within a division (Sox/Yanks, Cubs/Cardinals, Dodgers/Giants)

My 30 team alignment:                                                                      My 32 team alignment (using pods, and Montreal and Charlotte as the expansion teams)

East: BOS, NYY, NYM, PHI, PIT                                                            Atlantic: BOS/PHI, NYM/NYY
South: ATL, BAL, MIA, TB, WAS                                                           East: ATL/CHA, BAL/WAS                                                         
Central: CIN, CLE, DET, MIL, TOR                                                        South: CIN/CLE, MIA/TB
Midwest: CHC, CWS, KC, MIN, STL                                                       North: DET/PIT, MON/TOR
Mountain: ARZ, COL, HOU, TEX, SD
West: LAA, LAD, OAK, SF, SEA                                                             Central: CHC/CWS, KC/STL
                                                                                                         Midwest: HOU/TEX, MIL/MIN
                                                                                                         Mountain: ARZ/SD, COL/SEA
                                                                                                         West: LAA/LAD, OAK/SF
Why does everybody think Montreal is going to get another team? Support for the Expos was dismal why an expansion team there? There are plenty of other cities that would make way more sense for expansion like Indianapolis, Portland, Memphis, San Antonio, New Orleans, Nashville ect.

Because they played in a dump of a stadium with a terrible ownership group who refused to invest in the city with a new stadium.  The Sox/Jays exhibition games at the end of Spring Training were totally sold out despite how terrible Olympic Stadium is.  Sox fans in Northern New England and New York fans from far upstate would go to games there.  Many cities in sports have lost teams and gotten a second chance (a) decade(s) later (DC baseball, Houston in football, Winnipeg in hockey) and have done well.  Quebec City hasn't had a hockey team for 20 years, and they're starving for the NHL to come back.
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

dvferyance

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on June 11, 2016, 06:34:31 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 11, 2016, 05:31:21 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on June 11, 2016, 02:35:55 PM
My idea for realignment would be geographical.  For now, it would keep 6 divisions, but would go to 8 4 team divisions if there were expansion (there is a sentiment to bring baseball back to Montreal, and another city like Charlotte or Vegas could get a team).  In my 32 team league, teams would play divisional foes 14 times, teams in the other 3 divisions in their geographical "conference" 6 times, and series against the other conference 3 times.  Teams within divisions would be grouped together into 2-team "pods" that would travel together and play a week at other pods' ballparks. Example: the Yankees and Mets would go to Chicago and the Mets would play a 3 game series at Wrigley and the Yankees a 3 game series at US Cellular, then they'd swap.  The playoffs would take the top 12 teams overall regardless of division.  The top 4 teams get byes.  The next 8 teams would all play a Wildcard game.  The winners of those games would be matched up with the bye teams in the Division Series.  The length of the remaining serieses would remain the same, but home field in the World Series would go to the highest seed.

For my alignments, they're not totally geographically aligned, but relatively close while preserving many of the natural rivalries within a division (Sox/Yanks, Cubs/Cardinals, Dodgers/Giants)

My 30 team alignment:                                                                      My 32 team alignment (using pods, and Montreal and Charlotte as the expansion teams)

East: BOS, NYY, NYM, PHI, PIT                                                            Atlantic: BOS/PHI, NYM/NYY
South: ATL, BAL, MIA, TB, WAS                                                           East: ATL/CHA, BAL/WAS                                                         
Central: CIN, CLE, DET, MIL, TOR                                                        South: CIN/CLE, MIA/TB
Midwest: CHC, CWS, KC, MIN, STL                                                       North: DET/PIT, MON/TOR
Mountain: ARZ, COL, HOU, TEX, SD
West: LAA, LAD, OAK, SF, SEA                                                             Central: CHC/CWS, KC/STL
                                                                                                         Midwest: HOU/TEX, MIL/MIN
                                                                                                         Mountain: ARZ/SD, COL/SEA
                                                                                                         West: LAA/LAD, OAK/SF
Why does everybody think Montreal is going to get another team? Support for the Expos was dismal why an expansion team there? There are plenty of other cities that would make way more sense for expansion like Indianapolis, Portland, Memphis, San Antonio, New Orleans, Nashville ect.

Because they played in a dump of a stadium with a terrible ownership group who refused to invest in the city with a new stadium.  The Sox/Jays exhibition games at the end of Spring Training were totally sold out despite how terrible Olympic Stadium is.  Sox fans in Northern New England and New York fans from far upstate would go to games there.  Many cities in sports have lost teams and gotten a second chance (a) decade(s) later (DC baseball, Houston in football, Winnipeg in hockey) and have done well.  Quebec City hasn't had a hockey team for 20 years, and they're starving for the NHL to come back.
Forget baseball in Canada it doesn't work.

Duke87

#58
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 10, 2016, 03:01:06 PM
People get so upset when American League teams play National League teams.  Yet, this stuff goes on in the other major sporting leagues without a 2nd thought.

The issue is one of history. The NFL, NBA, and NHL all started facing all teams against each other as soon as they absorbed their former rival leagues. The NBA and NHL even did away with the distinction of having two distinct "leagues" and instead created purely geographic divisions.

With MLB, AL and NL teams started facing each other in the World Series in 1903, but was not until 1997 that they first faced each other in regular season play.

So, MLB has something that the NFL, NBA, and NHL do not: a century of precedent saying that interleague play is not supposed to happen.

It also doesn't help MLB's case that the motive for implementing interleague play was largely to get people interested again after the 1994-95 players' strike. It is understandably seen by purists as a gimmick that cheapens the game.

Quote from: dvferyance on June 11, 2016, 05:31:21 PM
Why does everybody think Montreal is going to get another team? Support for the Expos was dismal why an expansion team there? There are plenty of other cities that would make way more sense for expansion like Indianapolis, Portland, Memphis, San Antonio, New Orleans, Nashville ect.

Indianapolis seems a bit close to Cincinnati to create a separate market out of. But then, this same argument was used against the Expos moving to Washington (very close to Baltimore) and it happened anyway.

Portland, while it is a decent size city, does not strike me as an attractive market for MLB since hipsters either don't care about sports or only watch soccer.

Memphis, San Antonio, New Orleans, and Nashville would all be potentially viable markets - although it is probably one or the other, not both, with Memphis and Nashville.


I could also see the Rays potentially attempting to relocate once their obligations to Tropicana Field run out - attendance has always been disappointing for them.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

jbnv

#59
Quote from: Duke87 on June 12, 2016, 09:47:16 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 11, 2016, 05:31:21 PM
Why does everybody think Montreal is going to get another team? Support for the Expos was dismal why an expansion team there? There are plenty of other cities that would make way more sense for expansion like Indianapolis, Portland, Memphis, San Antonio, New Orleans, Nashville ect.

Memphis, San Antonio, New Orleans, and Nashville would all be potentially viable markets.

New Orleans has had a AAA team (the Zephyrs) for two decades. But I doubt that New Orleans on its own would support a MLB team. Considering that Baton Rouge is now a larger market than New Orleans, a case could be made for putting the stadium somewhere between the cities, maybe in Gonzales.

Pro: Louisiana seems to produce a lot of baseball talent. LSU and the University of Louisiana are perennial contenders in the NCAA playoffs in both baseball and softball. MLB drafts quite a few people from our schools.

Con: The success of our college teams doesn't seem to translate to interest in pro teams. Only one Louisiana city not named New Orleans (Alexandria) has kept a minor league team for a substantial amount of time. Many of the teams that have sprung up and died here were not MLB-system teams. If MLB has shown interest in developing farm teams here, it hasn't translated into successful teams. (Probably largely due to the intense humidity during the summer.) There's not much reason to believe that the college fan bases would adopt an MLB team.

And how are we going to pay for an MLB stadium? The state is broke and can't keep up with the backlog in highway projects. The post-Katrina Saints games at Tiger Stadium were disasters, making the odds of fielding an MLB team in LSU's baseball stadium virtually nil. 

In short, don't look to Louisiana for an MLB expansion any time soon.
🆕 Louisiana Highways on Twitter | Yes, I like Clearview. Deal with it. | Redos: US | La. | Route Challenge

Thing 342

For those thinking about possible MLB Expansion markets, consider:


TeamTotalDatesAverageCapacity% Filled
Charlotte Knights6693987194281020092.43%
Sacramento River Cats6723547293381468063.61%
Indianapolis Indians6625367193311423065.57%
Columbus Clippers6220966990161010089.27%
Lehigh Valley IronPigs6138157087691010086.82%
Round Rock Express5950126986231000086.23%
Buffalo Bisons5513036782281760046.75%
El Paso Chihuahuas578952718154950085.83%
Albuquerque Isotopes5605197080071327960.30%
Nashville Sounds5655487179651000079.65%
Durham Bulls5547887178141000078.14%
Toledo Mud Hens531249697699894386.09%
Louisville Bats5275887075371313157.40%
Iowa Cubs5045776775311150065.49%
Oklahoma City Dodgers471996686941900077.12%
Salt Lake Bees4707606968231533444.50%
Pawtucket Red Sox4666007165721003165.52%
Fresno Grizzlies4584317164571250051.66%
Rochester Red Wings4403607062911084058.04%
Norfolk Tides3864026757671185648.64%
Scranton/WB RailRiders4027317057531000057.53%
Omaha Storm Chasers386141705516902361.13%
Reno Aces376422705377901359.66%
Tacoma Rainiers352521714965960051.72%
Las Vegas 51s3335206948341000048.34%
New Orleans Zephyrs324973694710840056.07%
Colorado Springs Sky Sox300209654619840054.99%
Memphis Redbirds2785796940371000040.37%
Gwinnett Braves2703367138081042736.52%
Syracuse Chiefs2624086938031111734.21%

Of the top few, Allentown, Sacramento, and Columbus seem too close to existing markets (PHI, SF/OAK and CLE/CIN), leaving Indy and Charlotte as potential expansion teams. Charlotte seems like the better option of the two, as it fills in a massive hole on the East Coast between Atlanta, Cincinnati, and Washington (see here), although the Research Triangle may be a better fit if you're going for coverage. The Carolinas have a sizeable interest in baseball, given the success of local collegiate teams, and the amount of local talent from the area, making them a large untapped area for MLB.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on June 11, 2016, 06:34:31 PM
Quote from: dvferyance on June 11, 2016, 05:31:21 PM
Quote from: jp the roadgeek on June 11, 2016, 02:35:55 PM
My idea for realignment would be geographical.  For now, it would keep 6 divisions, but would go to 8 4 team divisions if there were expansion (there is a sentiment to bring baseball back to Montreal, and another city like Charlotte or Vegas could get a team).  In my 32 team league, teams would play divisional foes 14 times, teams in the other 3 divisions in their geographical "conference" 6 times, and series against the other conference 3 times.  Teams within divisions would be grouped together into 2-team "pods" that would travel together and play a week at other pods' ballparks. Example: the Yankees and Mets would go to Chicago and the Mets would play a 3 game series at Wrigley and the Yankees a 3 game series at US Cellular, then they'd swap.  The playoffs would take the top 12 teams overall regardless of division.  The top 4 teams get byes.  The next 8 teams would all play a Wildcard game.  The winners of those games would be matched up with the bye teams in the Division Series.  The length of the remaining serieses would remain the same, but home field in the World Series would go to the highest seed.

For my alignments, they're not totally geographically aligned, but relatively close while preserving many of the natural rivalries within a division (Sox/Yanks, Cubs/Cardinals, Dodgers/Giants)

My 30 team alignment:                                                                      My 32 team alignment (using pods, and Montreal and Charlotte as the expansion teams)

East: BOS, NYY, NYM, PHI, PIT                                                            Atlantic: BOS/PHI, NYM/NYY
South: ATL, BAL, MIA, TB, WAS                                                           East: ATL/CHA, BAL/WAS                                                         
Central: CIN, CLE, DET, MIL, TOR                                                        South: CIN/CLE, MIA/TB
Midwest: CHC, CWS, KC, MIN, STL                                                       North: DET/PIT, MON/TOR
Mountain: ARZ, COL, HOU, TEX, SD
West: LAA, LAD, OAK, SF, SEA                                                             Central: CHC/CWS, KC/STL
                                                                                                         Midwest: HOU/TEX, MIL/MIN
                                                                                                         Mountain: ARZ/SD, COL/SEA
                                                                                                         West: LAA/LAD, OAK/SF
Why does everybody think Montreal is going to get another team? Support for the Expos was dismal why an expansion team there? There are plenty of other cities that would make way more sense for expansion like Indianapolis, Portland, Memphis, San Antonio, New Orleans, Nashville ect.

Because they played in a dump of a stadium with a terrible ownership group who refused to invest in the city with a new stadium.  The Sox/Jays exhibition games at the end of Spring Training were totally sold out despite how terrible Olympic Stadium is.  Sox fans in Northern New England and New York fans from far upstate would go to games there.  Many cities in sports have lost teams and gotten a second chance (a) decade(s) later (DC baseball, Houston in football, Winnipeg in hockey) and have done well.  Quebec City hasn't had a hockey team for 20 years, and they're starving for the NHL to come back.

And then they have a few bites, enjoy it, but they're probably not going to be back.

jbnv

Quote from: Thing 342 on June 14, 2016, 09:26:55 PM
For those thinking about possible MLB Expansion markets, consider:


TeamTotalDatesAverageCapacity% Filled
Charlotte Knights6693987194281020092.43%
Sacramento River Cats6723547293381468063.61%
Indianapolis Indians6625367193311423065.57%
Columbus Clippers6220966990161010089.27%
<snip>

Of the top few, Allentown, Sacramento, and Columbus seem too close to existing markets (PHI, SF/OAK and CLE/CIN), leaving Indy and Charlotte as potential expansion teams. Charlotte seems like the better option of the two, as it fills in a massive hole on the East Coast between Atlanta, Cincinnati, and Washington (see here), although the Research Triangle may be a better fit if you're going for coverage. The Carolinas have a sizeable interest in baseball, given the success of local collegiate teams, and the amount of local talent from the area, making them a large untapped area for MLB.

Looks like a grand-slam for the Carolinas. (Pun intended.) They have not only the best average attendance but the most-filled stadium. 
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Max Rockatansky

Weren't the Twins threatening to move to Charlotte if they couldn't get a new stadium back in the Metro Dome days? 

The Nature Boy

Building a stadium in Uptown before Charlotte landed an MLB team was incredibly short-sighted. The old Knights Stadium in SC was built to be upgraded to a full MLB stadium if Charlotte ever got a team, a feature that BB&T Park lacks.

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/mlb/charlotte-knights/article27346342.html

The current stadium can't be retrofitted to be an MLB stadium AND the city is locked into a 20 year agreement with the current Knights. Putting a minor league stadium in the downtown of a city of 700,000 just seems incredibly shortsighted.

jbnv

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SP Cook

Montreal:  To blame the Expos' failure on simply lack of fan support is to deny history.  Consider:

- The team was put into a mostly wooden park that was supposed to be used for not more than 4 years.  It ended up being used for nine. 

- Olympic Stadium is the world's largest archetectural malpractice.  Designed by an "artistic" archetect with no venue designing expeience, it was a dank rathole with bad sight lines, a dank unfinished basement atmosphere (due to the malpracticed retractable dome design), pieces falling off, and other problem.  And, due to union extremism, it was not really finished for the Olympics nor when the Expos moved in in 77.  It was an active construction site for years thereafter, not counting the dome which was years after that and never did work. 

- Without compensation (unlike the Orioles- Nationals situation where the Os own the Nats TV rights for 30 years) the Expos were forced to share most of Canada with the Blue Jays when they started and were forced off the TV in the Golden Horseshoe region totally. 

- The PQ govenement's hostility to the English merchant class moved hundreds of corporate HQs , and their attendant luxury box buying, out of Montreal and to Toronto and Calgary.

- The last ownership of the team was set on losing (on the field and in marketing both) in order to move the team to the supposed promised land of Miami (real life Major League) and ended up getting the Miami franchise. 

Carolinas:

IF all of the metro Carolinas region, which is to say the Piedmont Triad, the Triangle, Metrolina, the SC Upstate and Columbia were one city, it would be easy to put a team there.  It is not.  It is a 50 mile wide and 240 mile long stretch of big cites, suburbs, small towns and still rural areas. That works for the NFL, where it is 8 games a year, mostly on Sunday afternoons.  It works for the NBA and NHL, where it is half as many games needing half as many people to be a good crowd.  It does not work for baseball, where you need a full crowd on weeknights.  No one city, not even Charlotte, can support baseball by itself.


jbnv

Quote from: SP Cook on June 15, 2016, 10:25:26 AM
IF all of the metro Carolinas region, which is to say the Piedmont Triad, the Triangle, Metrolina, the SC Upstate and Columbia were one city, it would be easy to put a team there.  It is not.  It is a 50 mile wide and 240 mile long stretch of big cites, suburbs, small towns and still rural areas. That works for the NFL [and college football as well -jbnv], where it is 8 games a year, mostly on Sunday afternoons.  It works for the NBA and NHL, where it is half as many games needing half as many people to be a good crowd.  It does not work for baseball, where you need a full crowd on weeknights.  No one city, not even Charlotte, can support baseball by itself.

Great point. This is also true for New Orleans and Baton Rouge. For NFL and college football fans, it's an entire-day (if not -weekend) event. You can set up shop at or near the stadium and camp out before and/or after your game. Baseball doesn't offer such an opportunity.
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dvferyance

Quote from: jbnv on June 15, 2016, 08:49:18 AM
Quote from: Thing 342 on June 14, 2016, 09:26:55 PM
For those thinking about possible MLB Expansion markets, consider:


TeamTotalDatesAverageCapacity% Filled
Charlotte Knights6693987194281020092.43%
Sacramento River Cats6723547293381468063.61%
Indianapolis Indians6625367193311423065.57%
Columbus Clippers6220966990161010089.27%
<snip>

Of the top few, Allentown, Sacramento, and Columbus seem too close to existing markets (PHI, SF/OAK and CLE/CIN), leaving Indy and Charlotte as potential expansion teams. Charlotte seems like the better option of the two, as it fills in a massive hole on the East Coast between Atlanta, Cincinnati, and Washington (see here), although the Research Triangle may be a better fit if you're going for coverage. The Carolinas have a sizeable interest in baseball, given the success of local collegiate teams, and the amount of local talent from the area, making them a large untapped area for MLB.

Looks like a grand-slam for the Carolinas. (Pun intended.) They have not only the best average attendance but the most-filled stadium.
Why in the world does Sacramento need a team? There are already 2 teams in the bay area and 5 in California. That's plenty for one state. California is over saturated in sports as is. Columbus would make some sense but you already have 2 baseball teams in Ohio. The 4 cities that makes the most sense to me is Indianapolis, Portland, Charlotte and Memphis.

Thing 342

#69
Quote from: SP Cook on June 15, 2016, 10:25:26 AM
Carolinas:

IF all of the metro Carolinas region, which is to say the Piedmont Triad, the Triangle, Metrolina, the SC Upstate and Columbia were one city, it would be easy to put a team there.  It is not.  It is a 50 mile wide and 240 mile long stretch of big cites, suburbs, small towns and still rural areas. That works for the NFL, where it is 8 games a year, mostly on Sunday afternoons.  It works for the NBA and NHL, where it is half as many games needing half as many people to be a good crowd.  It does not work for baseball, where you need a full crowd on weeknights.  No one city, not even Charlotte, can support baseball by itself.

This is utter nonsense. Charlotte is a top-25 media market, and has been able to sustain an NBA and NFL team for several years with decent attendance figures. To say Charlotte couldn't support a team is to imply that places like Kansas City, San Diego, and Cincinnati couldn't either.

Nexus 6P

tdindy88

It won't be Indy I can tell you that. The city has no interest in an MLB team and we are quite satisfied with the AAA Indians who are as much of an institution as the Colts and Pacers. Being two hours from the Reds, three hours from the Cubs and White Sox and four hours from the Cardinals make it a little too crowded. Charlotte and Portland would be better suited personally.

jp the roadgeek

Quote from: tdindy88 on June 17, 2016, 09:41:49 PM
It won't be Indy I can tell you that. The city has no interest in an MLB team and we are quite satisfied with the AAA Indians who are as much of an institution as the Colts and Pacers. Being two hours from the Reds, three hours from the Cubs and White Sox and four hours from the Cardinals make it a little too crowded. Charlotte and Portland would be better suited personally.

Have to agree with you on the Indy perspective.  I was there last summer, and did not really hear one murmur on television about MLB (all about Colts training camp opening in a couple of weeks).  Went to a game at Victory Field.  Nice Minor League stadium, but no one there seemed to have an interest in any Major League team (even the parent club Pirates), nor did I see any team's apparel dominant in what people were wearing.  New Orleans is similar.  Was there 2 summers ago and did not hear a single word about baseball, just Saints, Saints, and more Saints.
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

Desert Man

#72
Next month, the NHL votes on whether or not to grant an expansion team in Las Vegas (the team name expected to be the Black Knights) and other cities like Seattle and Quebec City withdrew from expansion, due to lack of approval of arenas and other issues in holding a pro/major league team. The NHL should look into a 32nd team, either in the Kansas City-Topeka, KS area or Saskatchewan (in Saskatoon, larger than the capital Regina), but this is only my opinion. The NHL has 2 conferences: the eastern have 8 in each 2 divisions and the western have 7 in each. My prediction is Kansas City gets the team instead of Saskatchewan, because of a larger market and the Sprint Center in Kansas City (KS side) is an existing large, standard sports facility. Las Vegas are natural division rivals of the Kings and Ducks. 

And in the NBA, the rejection of arena plans in Seattle gave Las Vegas a huge advantage in a future basketball team. If they're granted a team, then a 32nd team comes about, and places like Kansas City and Virginia Beach could get one. The NBA would have 16 teams (current 15) each conference, a division with 6 team each and the other two have 5. Las Vegas would be divisional rivals to the 2 L.A. and 2 other CA teams (the possible team name is the Las Vegas Aces), and divisional realignment is possible for the eastern conference (the Washington Wizards become division rivals of the NY Knicks and Brooklyn Nets), because Virginia Beach is ready for a pro/major league sports team (name them the VA Squires, after the 1960s-70s ABA team) and will replace the Wizards' spot.
Get your kicks...on Route 99! Like to turn 66 upside down. The other historic Main street of America.

dvferyance

Quote from: tdindy88 on June 17, 2016, 09:41:49 PM
It won't be Indy I can tell you that. The city has no interest in an MLB team and we are quite satisfied with the AAA Indians who are as much of an institution as the Colts and Pacers. Being two hours from the Reds, three hours from the Cubs and White Sox and four hours from the Cardinals make it a little too crowded. Charlotte and Portland would be better suited personally.
The Colts are 2 hours from the Bengals 3 hours from the Bears and untill this year 4 hours from the Rams. What's the difference?

tdindy88

We were able to steal the Colts. We probably won't have luck being given an MLB team and Lucas Oil Stadium was built with plenty of kicking and screaming along the way. No one wants to replace Victory Field at the moment. Now that said, an MLS team would be a more likely outcome for another professional team judging by some pushes to build a fancy soccer stadium in the city.



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