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Author Topic: Las Vegas: Proposed elevated roadways to connect airport to resort corridor  (Read 7253 times)

roadfro

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Elevated roadways proposed to link McCarran, resort corridor
Las Vegas Review Journal, 1/28/2016
Quote
Clark County Public Works Director Denis Cederburg unveiled an animation illustrating a pair of elevated two-lane roadways free of traffic signals that would move traffic north from the airport along Paradise Road and south on Koval Lane and Tropicana Avenue.

The county plan was part of a broad transportation presentation given to the Southern Nevada Tourism Infrastructure Committee. Several transportation entities – the Nevada Department of Transportation and the Las Vegas Monorail as well as the public works departments of the county and the city of Las Vegas – provided details outlined in the Regional Transportation Commission of Southern Nevada's Transportation Business Investment Plan.
<...>
The end goal of the committee is to prioritize the development of transportation, stadium and convention facilities that would keep Las Vegas competitive with other resort destinations.
<...>
But the project that dazzled the committee the most was the proposed elevated expressway projects. Cederburg said the Koval Lane portion would cost an estimated $108 million while the Paradise project is estimated at $92 million. The roadways would be on bridge structures elevated over the existing street rights of way.


The article includes the video animations. Kind of an interesting concept that could be a game changer, but I'm still not sure how I feel about it


The 'broad transportation plan' referenced for the Southern Nevada Tourism Infrastructure Committee came out in 2015 (in May, I believe). I've only seen reference to it in news articles, not the actual proposal plan. The impetus of this is to have a multi-agency, multi-stakeholder planning guide to transportation needs in the Las Vegas area to guide future mobility enhancements that will help Las Vegas remain competitive with other tourism/convention markets. There are many short-to-long range projects in many modes, including several road enhancements/connections (such as connecting east-west Russel Road under the McCarran Airport runways), several new pedestrian bridges on Las Vegas Blvd, extending the Las Vegas Monorail to other convention facilities and/or the airport, a new multi-modal transit hub at the airport, a potential new light rail line along/under Las Vegas Boulevard from the Strip to Downtown, etc.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2016, 06:20:18 PM by roadfro »
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Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

mcarling

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Re: Las Vegas: Proposed elevated roadways to airport to resort corridor
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2016, 05:47:35 PM »

My own opinion is that Las Vegas should have a very light underground metro, such as the Toulouse Metro, initially running from McCarran Airport along the Strip.
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roadfro

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One issue with underground is that the soil in Las Vegas is very hard, so tunneling will likely be super expensive. Caliche is the primary cause of the hard soil, which is basically like a naturally-occurring cement. It is a major reason why you don't often find homes (or structures in general) with basements in the area. Another factor would be that any tunnels would need to be bored (as opposed to a cut and cover method) as to not completely disrupt operations on the Strip. That also gets pricey and tricky.

I always thought an elevated light rail/monorail along the center of the Strip would have made the most sense in terms of mobility. It would have provided awesome tourist viewing of the Strip as well. Too bad the casinos (and the taxi lobby) fought that vehemently when the monorail was under development.



Bringing this back to roads and the proposal: After thinking about it for a bit, this elevated road idea actually does make some sense. It would provide free-flow movement to/from the airport from some of the more congested parts of the resort corridor. Taking surface streets out from the airport can be a huge drag and prone to delays when there are major events in town.
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RoadWarrior56

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All they have to do is to extend the existing Monorail line from the MGM station east to the airport.  It is my understanding that is a long range plan.  Probably lack of funds coupled with probable opposition of the cab companies have held the extension up.
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LOL. A half billion dollars with of viaducts just so the taxis can maintain their monopoly. Awesome.
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Sub-Urbanite

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One issue with underground is that the soil in Las Vegas is very hard, so tunneling will likely be super expensive. Caliche is the primary cause of the hard soil, which is basically like a naturally-occurring cement. It is a major reason why you don't often find homes (or structures in general) with basements in the area. Another factor would be that any tunnels would need to be bored (as opposed to a cut and cover method) as to not completely disrupt operations on the Strip. That also gets pricey and tricky.

I'd buy caliche as an argument in opposition if the city wasn't covered with underground flood channels, many of which are built under cut-and-cover streets.
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roadfro

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One issue with underground is that the soil in Las Vegas is very hard, so tunneling will likely be super expensive. Caliche is the primary cause of the hard soil, which is basically like a naturally-occurring cement. It is a major reason why you don't often find homes (or structures in general) with basements in the area. Another factor would be that any tunnels would need to be bored (as opposed to a cut and cover method) as to not completely disrupt operations on the Strip. That also gets pricey and tricky.

I'd buy caliche as an argument in opposition if the city wasn't covered with underground flood channels, many of which are built under cut-and-cover streets.

Yes, there are many flood channels running under streets, created by cut and cover method. But these are typically concrete pipes or concrete box culverts laid at relatively shallow depths. Very different from a mass transit tunnel, which would need twice the depth and likely would need to be further below the street surface...

Besides, there is also a significant amount of the Vegas area's flood conveyances that are along open channels, whether in a natural or (increasingly) concrete-lined wash.
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Plutonic Panda

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So this apparently is not happening. I would have liked to have seen it happen. At the same time, I want to see the monorail connect to the airport as well and think they could have gotten this through if that was included.

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2017/dec/19/county-scraps-proposal-for-elevated-expressway/
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 08:29:55 PM by Plutonic Panda »
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roadfro

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At the same time, I want to see the monorail connect to the airport as well and think they could have gotten this through if that was included.

The current plan for the monorail is to not connect to the airport, but rather extend it down to the Mandalay Bay property in an effort to link all the area's major convention facilities to the monorail. (This would also have the happy benefit of getting the monorail close to the Raiders Stadium site.) If they did this, I think they could still build a monorail station at the northwest corner of the airport, and build a separate peoplemover line to connect McCarran's Terminal 3 and Terminal 1 to the monorail...
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Sub-Urbanite

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If they did this, I think they could still build a monorail station at the northwest corner of the airport, and build a separate peoplemover line to connect McCarran's Terminal 3 and Terminal 1 to the monorail...

You just found yourself on a taxicab industry hit list…
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AlexandriaVA

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Re: Las Vegas: Proposed elevated roadways to connect airport to resort corridor
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2017, 11:52:50 AM »

While any resort city understandably exists to soak out-of-towners, Las Vegas always stood out to me as particularly egregious in that regard. They have a fine-enough rapid bus that goes up and down the Strip, but doesn't actually stop at the airport. Likewise, the bus which originates from the airport takes a meandering path around the resorts.

I know there's more to LV than the Strip, but most cities I have been to, even in middle America, at least have a bus from the airport to the city center or wherever the main business district is. Truthfully, LAS airport is close enough to the resorts that it should easy to walk, but the terminals are on the "wrong" side of the runway, and I think there's little desire to let visitors avoid the rental car/taxi racket.
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Re: Las Vegas: Proposed elevated roadways to connect airport to resort corridor
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2017, 01:01:06 PM »

While any resort city understandably exists to soak out-of-towners, Las Vegas always stood out to me as particularly egregious in that regard. They have a fine-enough rapid bus that goes up and down the Strip, but doesn't actually stop at the airport. Likewise, the bus which originates from the airport takes a meandering path around the resorts.

I know there's more to LV than the Strip, but most cities I have been to, even in middle America, at least have a bus from the airport to the city center or wherever the main business district is. Truthfully, LAS airport is close enough to the resorts that it should easy to walk, but the terminals are on the "wrong" side of the runway, and I think there's little desire to let visitors avoid the rental car/taxi racket.

Not to be all conspiracy-theory peddling, but the taxi industry has enormous clout and is responsible for that. For decades, the industry encouraged illegal "long-hauling" of tourists through the airport tunnel to pad fares to the Strip, and regulators generally looked the other way, or, at worst, busted individual drivers. Any extension of public transit to the airport would likely be met with fierce resistance by the taxi lobby — not just political donations, but picture a cab strike where drivers park their cars on the Strip and walk away.

As long as the locals don't get affected by it, there's no political incentive for leaders to fix the issue.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Las Vegas: Proposed elevated roadways to connect airport to resort corridor
« Reply #12 on: December 28, 2017, 01:03:43 PM »

While any resort city understandably exists to soak out-of-towners, Las Vegas always stood out to me as particularly egregious in that regard. They have a fine-enough rapid bus that goes up and down the Strip, but doesn't actually stop at the airport. Likewise, the bus which originates from the airport takes a meandering path around the resorts.

I know there's more to LV than the Strip, but most cities I have been to, even in middle America, at least have a bus from the airport to the city center or wherever the main business district is. Truthfully, LAS airport is close enough to the resorts that it should easy to walk, but the terminals are on the "wrong" side of the runway, and I think there's little desire to let visitors avoid the rental car/taxi racket.

Not to be all conspiracy-theory peddling, but the taxi industry has enormous clout and is responsible for that. For decades, the industry encouraged illegal "long-hauling" of tourists through the airport tunnel to pad fares to the Strip, and regulators generally looked the other way, or, at worst, busted individual drivers. Any extension of public transit to the airport would likely be met with fierce resistance by the taxi lobby — not just political donations, but picture a cab strike where drivers park their cars on the Strip and walk away.

As long as the locals don't get affected by it, there's no political incentive for leaders to fix the issue.
If the cab drivers did that some towing company would get very rich. If the taxi cabs had some big control over what happens on the strip, then they just lost it with this recent move.
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vdeane

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Re: Las Vegas: Proposed elevated roadways to connect airport to resort corridor
« Reply #13 on: December 28, 2017, 01:26:05 PM »

I would think a cab strike would do nothing but shoot themselves in the foot in the era of Uber and Lyft.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Las Vegas: Proposed elevated roadways to connect airport to resort corridor
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2017, 01:26:49 PM »

While any resort city understandably exists to soak out-of-towners, Las Vegas always stood out to me as particularly egregious in that regard. They have a fine-enough rapid bus that goes up and down the Strip, but doesn't actually stop at the airport. Likewise, the bus which originates from the airport takes a meandering path around the resorts.

I know there's more to LV than the Strip, but most cities I have been to, even in middle America, at least have a bus from the airport to the city center or wherever the main business district is. Truthfully, LAS airport is close enough to the resorts that it should easy to walk, but the terminals are on the "wrong" side of the runway, and I think there's little desire to let visitors avoid the rental car/taxi racket.

Not to be all conspiracy-theory peddling, but the taxi industry has enormous clout and is responsible for that. For decades, the industry encouraged illegal "long-hauling" of tourists through the airport tunnel to pad fares to the Strip, and regulators generally looked the other way, or, at worst, busted individual drivers. Any extension of public transit to the airport would likely be met with fierce resistance by the taxi lobby — not just political donations, but picture a cab strike where drivers park their cars on the Strip and walk away.

As long as the locals don't get affected by it, there's no political incentive for leaders to fix the issue.
If the cab drivers did that some towing company would get very rich. If the taxi cabs had some big control over what happens on the strip, then they just lost it with this recent move.

What recent move?

Actually, the taxi cabs are hurting for the same reason taxis are hurting in every other city:  Uber & Lyft.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Las Vegas: Proposed elevated roadways to connect airport to resort corridor
« Reply #15 on: December 28, 2017, 01:28:22 PM »

While any resort city understandably exists to soak out-of-towners, Las Vegas always stood out to me as particularly egregious in that regard. They have a fine-enough rapid bus that goes up and down the Strip, but doesn't actually stop at the airport. Likewise, the bus which originates from the airport takes a meandering path around the resorts.

I know there's more to LV than the Strip, but most cities I have been to, even in middle America, at least have a bus from the airport to the city center or wherever the main business district is. Truthfully, LAS airport is close enough to the resorts that it should easy to walk, but the terminals are on the "wrong" side of the runway, and I think there's little desire to let visitors avoid the rental car/taxi racket.

Not to be all conspiracy-theory peddling, but the taxi industry has enormous clout and is responsible for that. For decades, the industry encouraged illegal "long-hauling" of tourists through the airport tunnel to pad fares to the Strip, and regulators generally looked the other way, or, at worst, busted individual drivers. Any extension of public transit to the airport would likely be met with fierce resistance by the taxi lobby — not just political donations, but picture a cab strike where drivers park their cars on the Strip and walk away.

As long as the locals don't get affected by it, there's no political incentive for leaders to fix the issue.
If the cab drivers did that some towing company would get very rich. If the taxi cabs had some big control over what happens on the strip, then they just lost it with this recent move.

What recent move?

Actually, the taxi cabs are hurting for the same reason taxis are hurting in every other city:  Uber & Lyft.
The move made by the county to effectively kill this project.
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Las Vegas: Proposed elevated roadways to connect airport to resort corridor
« Reply #16 on: December 28, 2017, 01:31:28 PM »

While any resort city understandably exists to soak out-of-towners, Las Vegas always stood out to me as particularly egregious in that regard. They have a fine-enough rapid bus that goes up and down the Strip, but doesn't actually stop at the airport. Likewise, the bus which originates from the airport takes a meandering path around the resorts.

I know there's more to LV than the Strip, but most cities I have been to, even in middle America, at least have a bus from the airport to the city center or wherever the main business district is. Truthfully, LAS airport is close enough to the resorts that it should easy to walk, but the terminals are on the "wrong" side of the runway, and I think there's little desire to let visitors avoid the rental car/taxi racket.

Not to be all conspiracy-theory peddling, but the taxi industry has enormous clout and is responsible for that. For decades, the industry encouraged illegal "long-hauling" of tourists through the airport tunnel to pad fares to the Strip, and regulators generally looked the other way, or, at worst, busted individual drivers. Any extension of public transit to the airport would likely be met with fierce resistance by the taxi lobby – not just political donations, but picture a cab strike where drivers park their cars on the Strip and walk away.

As long as the locals don't get affected by it, there's no political incentive for leaders to fix the issue.
If the cab drivers did that some towing company would get very rich. If the taxi cabs had some big control over what happens on the strip, then they just lost it with this recent move.

What recent move?

Actually, the taxi cabs are hurting for the same reason taxis are hurting in every other city:  Uber & Lyft.
The move made by the county to effectively kill this project.

That helps the taxi industry.  It doesn't hurt them.

The whole monorail thing has been a boondoggle since it started anyway.  The county keeps trying to make a go of it, but between the taxi lobby and the costs, it's not going to go anywhere ever.
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roadfro

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Re: Las Vegas: Proposed elevated roadways to connect airport to resort corridor
« Reply #17 on: December 28, 2017, 02:09:38 PM »

If they did this, I think they could still build a monorail station at the northwest corner of the airport, and build a separate peoplemover line to connect McCarran's Terminal 3 and Terminal 1 to the monorail...
You just found yourself on a taxicab industry hit list…
Not the first time for that...  :-D

The taxi lobby has a much bigger issue than me and my random musings, in that the ride-share industry has greatly cut into their profit margins.


While any resort city understandably exists to soak out-of-towners, Las Vegas always stood out to me as particularly egregious in that regard. They have a fine-enough rapid bus that goes up and down the Strip, but doesn't actually stop at the airport. Likewise, the bus which originates from the airport takes a meandering path around the resorts.

I know there's more to LV than the Strip, but most cities I have been to, even in middle America, at least have a bus from the airport to the city center or wherever the main business district is. Truthfully, LAS airport is close enough to the resorts that it should easy to walk, but the terminals are on the "wrong" side of the runway, and I think there's little desire to let visitors avoid the rental car/taxi racket.

Not to be all conspiracy-theory peddling, but the taxi industry has enormous clout and is responsible for that. For decades, the industry encouraged illegal "long-hauling" of tourists through the airport tunnel to pad fares to the Strip, and regulators generally looked the other way, or, at worst, busted individual drivers. Any extension of public transit to the airport would likely be met with fierce resistance by the taxi lobby — not just political donations, but picture a cab strike where drivers park their cars on the Strip and walk away.

As long as the locals don't get affected by it, there's no political incentive for leaders to fix the issue.

The taxi lobby is pretty powerful, but I think their influence is slowly waning a little bit. The "long-hauling" issue hasn't gone away, but there is more enforcement of it now. They lost out with the ride-share issue. And I don't think I've heard much about taxi companies opposing the latest monorail extension plan.

As for transit between the Strip and the airport: It actually doesn't make much sense for the Deuce or SDX to jog over to the airport, as they would miss several of the stops along the south Strip. Route 109 actually goes from the airport to the South Strip Transfer Terminal, which is also where Deuce and SDX terminate--so the transfer is fairly easy. But I think you'll find that more tourists would rather take a taxi/Uber/Lyft when lugging their luggage from the airport (curbside arrival to the hotel as opposed to walking up to their hotel from the Strip sidewalk, which can be a walk for some resorts), but then take other options including bus when exploring.


The whole monorail thing has been a boondoggle since it started anyway.  The county keeps trying to make a go of it, but between the taxi lobby and the costs, it's not going to go anywhere ever.

The monorail was actually constructed and is operated by a private company. Clark County doesn't have a stake in it.

A recent Las Vegas Review-Journal article indicates the monorail's ridership projections are going to fall short of predictions this year as well. Uber & Lyft are the culprits (the last ridership projection didn't factor ride shares into account).
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Las Vegas: Proposed elevated roadways to connect airport to resort corridor
« Reply #18 on: December 28, 2017, 02:27:01 PM »

While any resort city understandably exists to soak out-of-towners, Las Vegas always stood out to me as particularly egregious in that regard. They have a fine-enough rapid bus that goes up and down the Strip, but doesn't actually stop at the airport. Likewise, the bus which originates from the airport takes a meandering path around the resorts.

I know there's more to LV than the Strip, but most cities I have been to, even in middle America, at least have a bus from the airport to the city center or wherever the main business district is. Truthfully, LAS airport is close enough to the resorts that it should easy to walk, but the terminals are on the "wrong" side of the runway, and I think there's little desire to let visitors avoid the rental car/taxi racket.

Not to be all conspiracy-theory peddling, but the taxi industry has enormous clout and is responsible for that. For decades, the industry encouraged illegal "long-hauling" of tourists through the airport tunnel to pad fares to the Strip, and regulators generally looked the other way, or, at worst, busted individual drivers. Any extension of public transit to the airport would likely be met with fierce resistance by the taxi lobby — not just political donations, but picture a cab strike where drivers park their cars on the Strip and walk away.

As long as the locals don't get affected by it, there's no political incentive for leaders to fix the issue.
If the cab drivers did that some towing company would get very rich. If the taxi cabs had some big control over what happens on the strip, then they just lost it with this recent move.

What recent move?

Actually, the taxi cabs are hurting for the same reason taxis are hurting in every other city:  Uber & Lyft.
The move made by the county to effectively kill this project.

That helps the taxi industry.  It doesn't hurt them.

The whole monorail thing has been a boondoggle since it started anyway.  The county keeps trying to make a go of it, but between the taxi lobby and the costs, it's not going to go anywhere ever.
I thought this project would have helped the taxi industry?
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jeffandnicole

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Re: Las Vegas: Proposed elevated roadways to connect airport to resort corridor
« Reply #19 on: December 28, 2017, 02:43:36 PM »

While any resort city understandably exists to soak out-of-towners, Las Vegas always stood out to me as particularly egregious in that regard. They have a fine-enough rapid bus that goes up and down the Strip, but doesn't actually stop at the airport. Likewise, the bus which originates from the airport takes a meandering path around the resorts.

I know there's more to LV than the Strip, but most cities I have been to, even in middle America, at least have a bus from the airport to the city center or wherever the main business district is. Truthfully, LAS airport is close enough to the resorts that it should easy to walk, but the terminals are on the "wrong" side of the runway, and I think there's little desire to let visitors avoid the rental car/taxi racket.

Not to be all conspiracy-theory peddling, but the taxi industry has enormous clout and is responsible for that. For decades, the industry encouraged illegal "long-hauling" of tourists through the airport tunnel to pad fares to the Strip, and regulators generally looked the other way, or, at worst, busted individual drivers. Any extension of public transit to the airport would likely be met with fierce resistance by the taxi lobby – not just political donations, but picture a cab strike where drivers park their cars on the Strip and walk away.

As long as the locals don't get affected by it, there's no political incentive for leaders to fix the issue.
If the cab drivers did that some towing company would get very rich. If the taxi cabs had some big control over what happens on the strip, then they just lost it with this recent move.

What recent move?

Actually, the taxi cabs are hurting for the same reason taxis are hurting in every other city:  Uber & Lyft.
The move made by the county to effectively kill this project.

That helps the taxi industry.  It doesn't hurt them.

The whole monorail thing has been a boondoggle since it started anyway.  The county keeps trying to make a go of it, but between the taxi lobby and the costs, it's not going to go anywhere ever.
I thought this project would have helped the taxi industry?

How?  Instead of people taking a taxi from place to place, they would've taken the monorail instead.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Las Vegas: Proposed elevated roadways to connect airport to resort corridor
« Reply #20 on: December 28, 2017, 02:55:06 PM »

This project included no monorails. Only elevated roadways for cars unless I missed something.
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Sub-Urbanite

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Re: Las Vegas: Proposed elevated roadways to connect airport to resort corridor
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2017, 06:07:06 PM »

This project included no monorails. Only elevated roadways for cars unless I missed something.

Ok. Two separate discussions, one thread:

- The taxi industry has staunchly opposed an airport monorail and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future
- The elevated roadway was spiked by a variety of circumstances, least of all being cost; and it wasn't a huge win for the taxi industry, which gets paid whether the cab is moving or not (Vegas taxis charge you if you're moving slower than 12 mph) so traffic isn't really a factor.
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Re: Las Vegas: Proposed elevated roadways to connect airport to resort corridor
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2017, 06:27:07 PM »

I know there's more to LV than the Strip, but most cities I have been to, even in middle America, at least have a bus from the airport to the city center or wherever the main business district is.

Of the cities where I've needed to get to or from the airport (or vice versa) by bus:
Wichita (pop. 390,000) has no bus line to the airport, always got a ride from a friend.
El Paso (pop. 683,000) does but I was coming from the Bridge of the Americas, had to take a taxi.
Charlottesville (pop. 47,000) has no bus line to the airport, had to take a taxi.
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Plutonic Panda

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Re: Las Vegas: Proposed elevated roadways to connect airport to resort corridor
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2017, 06:33:06 PM »

Las Vegas Metro is 2 million. That is a pretty large population and no bus service. That being said, I don't mind it. I will Uber or take a cab and it works fine for me.
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kphoger

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Re: Las Vegas: Proposed elevated roadways to connect airport to resort corridor
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2017, 07:05:01 PM »

Las Vegas Metro is 2 million. That is a pretty large population and no bus service. That being said, I don't mind it. I will Uber or take a cab and it works fine for me.

From my perspective, the McCarran International Airport seems to be pretty well served by public bus.  It is served by four bus routes.

From Terminal 1, neither route–#108 or #109–serves the Strip.

From Terminal 3, however, both bus routes serve the Strip.  The Centennial Express (#CX) runs at least every hour, and it stops near Treasure Island at the north end of the Strip.  The Westcliff Airport Express (#WAX) runs at least every hour, and it stops near the Statue of Liberty at the south end of the Strip.  Need to get to a point in between the two?  Just transfer to the Deuce/SDX, which runs every 15 minutes.  That's not bad.
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