Washington

[jakeroot]

Consider this a momentous occasion: there is finally visual progress on the 167/509 extensions. Dirt is being piled up behind the Puyallup Recreation Center. The dirt is being sourced from other area projects. This has actually been an on-going process for several months now (it's on Street View), but I only just now bothered to take some photos.

[jakeroot]

WSDOT changed the #5 lane of I-5 southbound in Fife to an exit-only, and threw up this definitely-permanent guide sign. As with most of the state, the exit tab is contained within the sign, but it doesn't go all the way across. Obviously reminiscent of California:

[jakeroot]

SR 500 is officially, undoubtedly, all freeway now:

https://twitter.com/wsdot_sw/status/1061776454080331776

[Bruce]

Well, not all of it...but the section that matters is.

SR 500 still drops down to a rural road with tons of hard turns east of Orchards. That won't be fixed for decades.

[jakeroot]

Well, not all of it...but the section that matters is.

SR 500 still drops down to a rural road with tons of hard turns east of Orchards. That won't be fixed for decades.

Ahh thanks for reminding me. I always forget that it keeps going past 205 for quite a ways.

There was some quarrelling about 500's designation on OSM several years ago. At least that's settled without-doubt now.

[Bickendan]

I wouldn't be half surprised if the edits I just made were challenged. Looks like I have to deal with someone 'fixing' my Newberg-Dundee Bypass tags.

[BloonsTDFan360]

There was some quarrelling about 500's designation on OSM several years ago. At least that's settled without-doubt now.

I wouldn't be half surprised if the edits I just made were challenged.

Despite the RIRO conversion, someone wants it trunk still. I tried resolving the map note but it got reverted. Feel free to add your thoughts.

Looks like I have to deal with someone 'fixing' my Newberg-Dundee Bypass tags.

Use the alt_name tag for alternate names instead of using a semicolon for multiple names.

[The Ghostbuster]

Why was Highway 500 not built as a full-fledged freeway from the get-go? Money? Insufficient traffic? NIMBY's?

[sparker]

Why was Highway 500 not built as a full-fledged freeway from the get-go? Money? Insufficient traffic? NIMBY's?

All of the above, plus a generous helping of local politics.  The main reason WA 500 is being improved (albeit gradually and unobtrusively as possible) is the fact that PDX-area developers, stymied by growth limits across the river, are planting larger-tract housing in the areas around the north perimeter of Vancouver -- and out to Woodland on the north and Camas on the east.  If you're a regional resident -- and want a new "ranch"-style house on a third-acre or more, Clark County is the way to go unless you want to locate outside PDX Metro's bailiwick -- which means halfway to Salem or more.  Either way (WA or southward in OR), traffic will definitely be an issue if you're coming into town for work or otherwise -- such was a very deliberate choice early on with PDX/Metro planners.  Of course, they'd rather you commute in via transit; but with the ongoing rejection of MAX LR extensions over the river, that's a concept that's little more than a pipedream with occasional lip service!   The upgrades to WA 500 are simply there to cope with the inevitable traffic increases intrinsic to an expanding housing market.

[jakeroot]

Why was Highway 500 not built as a full-fledged freeway from the get-go? Money? Insufficient traffic? NIMBY's?

My understanding is that it was never meant to be a freeway, it just turned into one over time. Virtually every interchange was built piecemeal as-needed.

There was some quarrelling about 500's designation on OSM several years ago. At least that's settled without-doubt now.

I wouldn't be half surprised if the edits I just made were challenged.

Despite the RIRO conversion, someone wants it trunk still. I tried resolving the map note but it got reverted. Feel free to add your thoughts.

That "someone" is a banned user from this forum. He might have had an argument before, but now it makes no sense. There is a solid barrier from the 5 all the way past 205. It's not Interstate quality (the new merges are pretty tight) but it's legally a freeway according to WSDOT maps. Hell, WSDOT considered it freeway even with the signals, which is how this whole argument started. I can't believe he's still trying to contest this. Fucks sake.

[compdude787]

It's not Interstate quality (the new merges are pretty tight) but it's legally a freeway according to WSDOT maps. Hell, WSDOT considered it freeway even with the signals, which is how this whole argument started. I can't believe he's still trying to contest this. Fucks sake.

Many new WSDOT projects on freeways don't always meet current interstate standards especially when it comes to shoulder widths, (e.g. I-405's new express toll lanes) so that's a non-argument. And the fact that he's considering those two RIRO intersections to be at-grade is just ludicrous. At grade means that the road crosses at grade. Paul/ Baloo really needs to butt out of this. I don't go over to Tulsa and demand that certain roads like the LL Tisdale Pkwy that he changed to trunk be converted to motorway, so he ought to give us the same courtesy.

[compdude787]

Apparently he thinks the stretch of SR 500 between I-205 and the Fourth Plain Boulevard should be marked as trunk because "at-grade intersections make it a trunk to the nearest motorway-to-motorway interchange." My response basically was that if that was the case, then every odd-numbered 3di should be marked as a trunk (especially the extremely short 3dis in Montana). The only difference here is this doesn't have an interstate shield slapped on it.

Anyway, enough with OSM arguments behind our keyboards. I'm glad that they made SR 500 a full freeway, even if they just cheaped out on it and put in RIROs. It would be hard to put an interchange in at either one or both  of those roads without those interchanges being too close to already existing interchanges.

[jakeroot]

It's not Interstate quality (the new merges are pretty tight) but it's legally a freeway according to WSDOT maps. Hell, WSDOT considered it freeway even with the signals, which is how this whole argument started. I can't believe he's still trying to contest this. Fucks sake.

Many new WSDOT projects on freeways don't always meet current interstate standards especially when it comes to shoulder widths, (e.g. I-405's new express toll lanes) so that's a non-argument. And the fact that he's considering those two RIRO intersections to be at-grade is just ludicrous. At grade means that the road crosses at grade. Paul/ Baloo really needs to butt out of this. I don't go over to Tulsa and demand that certain roads like the LL Tisdale Pkwy that he changed to trunk be converted to motorway, so he ought to give us the same courtesy.

Yep, he's not getting it. Never mind that "motorway" and "trunk" designations are not used by American road agencies, so trying to apply any level of technical reasoning with those terms is ridiculous. The only reasonable option is to consult WSDOT maps, which show the road as freeway up to 4th Plain:

http://www.wsdot.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2017/08/31/highway-map-Vancouver.pdf

Anyway, enough with OSM arguments behind our keyboards. I'm glad that they made SR 500 a full freeway, even if they just cheaped out on it and put in RIROs. It would be hard to put an interchange in at either one or both  of those roads without those interchanges being too close to already existing interchanges.

I think there are long-term plans for more extravagent stuff, but the safety just wasn't there with the signals. I'd welcome the changes, if only for the improved traffic flow.

[Hurricane Rex]

Calling it a freeway IMO is a stretch, it looks more like expressway quality to me.

In Oregon, it would be considered an expressway similar to the OR 18 expressway between OR 22 and the South Yamhill River.

LG-TP260

[jakeroot]

Calling it a freeway IMO is a stretch, it looks more like expressway quality to me.

It's legally a freeway according to WSDOT maps. See my link above.

[Bickendan]

There was some quarrelling about 500's designation on OSM several years ago. At least that's settled without-doubt now.

I wouldn't be half surprised if the edits I just made were challenged.

Despite the RIRO conversion, someone wants it trunk still. I tried resolving the map note but it got reverted. Feel free to add your thoughts.

Looks like I have to deal with someone 'fixing' my Newberg-Dundee Bypass tags.

Use the alt_name tag for alternate names instead of using a semicolon for multiple names.

Thank you! That will help overall!



-----

Strangely enough, I'm actually not seeing any reversions to my edit on WA 500.

[ErmineNotyours]

Speaking of "This road to be extended in the future":

Connecting Washington, Future Construction Site

[Bruce]

Speaking of "This road to be extended in the future":

Connecting Washington, Future Construction Site

I've seen a few of those pop up in various spots. Here's one near Walla Walla:

[sparker]

Speaking of "This road to be extended in the future":

Connecting Washington, Future Construction Site

I've seen a few of those pop up in various spots. Here's one near Walla Walla:

Looks like the wording on the sign is copied word for word from their STIP entry (at least down to the "future construction site" part).  At least they're warning motorists to be aware that roadwork activity will likely affect travel on that stretch.  Just hope that the timeframe for construction is near-term enough so the pictured sign doesn't fall apart with corrosion!

[jakeroot]

This one is definitely my favorite:

[Bruce]

A nice map that I found in a GIS study of the regraded Denny Hill. The original hill basically ended at the center of the Amazon campus.

[Bruce]

Came across a label for "State Historical Road No. 1" on this 1968 topo map, which roughly corresponds to 84th/85th in southern Tacoma. The historic military road is a bit further south, so what exactly could this be?

[Alps]

http://www.historylink.org/File/7120

[Bruce]

http://www.historylink.org/File/7120

Thanks. I think I saved this article a while ago and forgot about it.

[jakeroot]

"Secondary State Highway 4D"? I thought PSH-4 was in Eastern Washington? Not sure how a branch of it made it to Puyallup. Can't even find a map of the SSH routes; currently trying to figure out where the 4D/Byrd's Mill intersection once was. As far as I can tell, the highest-lettered SSH was 4C.

Nevertheless, I'm disappointed that Pierce County has neglected to sign "Byrd's Mill Road" as part of their "historic 19xx" street blades. If anything, it should have been the first one signed! I drove 84th all the time growing up in the Summit area, to go to Tacoma and Lakewood for various things. Never for one second have I thought it could be traced back to the Indian Wars era. Besides the odd jog east of Portland Ave, it seems to fit right into the Tacoma/Pierce County grid. Sure, it's been rebuilt many times, but old roads usually have some traits even after rebuilding...not here, it seems.