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Bill to raise OK Teacher Pay via Fuel Tax Hike

Started by Bobby5280, March 20, 2017, 04:40:52 PM

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kkt

Quote from: Scott5114 on March 29, 2017, 04:14:58 PM
Quote from: Brandon on March 28, 2017, 12:35:29 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on March 28, 2017, 08:44:49 AM
The problems New York's state government is having do not really compare in any meaningful way to those Oklahoma is having.

And both pale in comparison to Illinois.  Pardon me while I laugh at both your troubles as you both have some sort of money and a state budget.

If the money that teachers have to spend out of their own pocket so that their classrooms are adequately supplied with things like paper, pencils, and Kleenex counts as "having some sort of money", then sure.

It is hard to overstate how much of a crisis the Oklahoma education situation has become. We have had teachers resign en masse and, just to get someone in the classroom to watch the kids, the state has had to lower standards to issue emergency credentials to wannabe educators.

Washington's parents are asked to supply these items.  In elementary schools, either the parents are asked to bring in a long list worth about $50 at the beginning of the year, or asked to send a check and the school does the shopping and generally makes better deals.  However, kids are not disenrolled if parents don't send items or checks.  Teachers end up picking up the slack.  PTAs may, also, although there are a lot of other things PTAs pay for that should be provided, even teachers' salaries in some cases.


Bobby5280

#51
Lawton Public Schools teachers constantly have to go into their own pockets to provide school supplies and other materials for students, quite a few of whom are low income. But I suspect there are plenty of parents who can afford the supplies but are happy to let the teacher take the financial hit instead of them. This is despite the disgraceful fact of how badly our teachers are paid compared to teachers in nearly every state outside Oklahoma.

This situation has been bad enough for so long that a charity group called the Lawton Public Schools Foundation was established years ago to raise funds to help teachers. Dozens of local businesses and hundreds of individuals donate money and materials to LPSF. They have an annual breakfast every September at Golden Corral that raises quite a bit of money. But there is still a big gap between what LPSF raises versus what teachers actually need. The skeptic in me wonders if people use LPSF efforts as a reason to justify further cuts in education funding and more tax cut candy being handed out to us selfish, blind, spoiled brat, soiled diaper taxpayer children.

Apparently Dallas ISD is poaching teachers from Oklahoma, passing around brochures boasting starting pay $20,000 per year higher than that of starting pay in Oklahoma. And that's on top of a fatter benefits package.

Oklahoma's state government is just getting ever more disgusting as it presses down on the accelerator in our race to the bottom. Our federal representation isn't any better. The only thing these guys are going to achieve if they make Oklahoma an entirely 100% pure, hard line conservative state is making Oklahoma a dirt poor, sausage festival populated with only old, dying white men.

kalvado

Quote from: Bobby5280 on March 30, 2017, 01:45:49 PM


Apparently Dallas ISD is poaching teachers from Oklahoma, passing around brochures boasting starting pay $20,000 per year higher than that of starting pay in Oklahoma. And that's on top of a fatter benefits package.

And TX is still in the bottom 10 states for per-student spending...

SD Mapman

Quote from: Bobby5280 on March 30, 2017, 01:45:49 PM
This is despite the disgraceful fact of how badly our teachers are paid compared to teachers in nearly every state outside Oklahoma.
According to link, the only one below Oklahoma is Mississippi. SD is the third lowest; a lot of the teachers I know have a second job. Granted, the cost of living here (unless it's in the Hills) is dirt cheap, so that makes up for a little.

Quote from: kalvado on March 30, 2017, 02:09:46 PM
Quote from: Bobby5280 on March 30, 2017, 01:45:49 PM
Apparently Dallas ISD is poaching teachers from Oklahoma, passing around brochures boasting starting pay $20,000 per year higher than that of starting pay in Oklahoma. And that's on top of a fatter benefits package.
And TX is still in the bottom 10 states for per-student spending...
I'm not sure if per-student spending is the best way to look at things. Kids don't need the newest flashiest trend to be successful.
The traveler sees what he sees, the tourist sees what he has come to see. - G.K. Chesterton

kkt

Quote from: SD Mapman on March 30, 2017, 11:18:31 PM
I'm not sure if per-student spending is the best way to look at things. Kids don't need the newest flashiest trend to be successful.

They don't need the flashiest tech to be successful, but most of a school district's expense is teacher salaries.  Teaching is a labor-intensive business and attempts at automating it have been dismal failures.  So trying to save money generally mean any of:  Settling for the teachers who did worse and can't get hired by a better-off school.  Settling for teachers without a master's in teaching but some alternative certification.  More students per classroom, which results in less feedback from the teacher, less ability to help the students who are behind and less ability to challenge the students who are bored.

Tech at my daughter's schools has mostly been installed at the insistence of BMGF who want all the students to take additional computerized adaptive standardized tests and send them the results.  That means lots of networking and computers in every school and heavy duty servers downtown.  Even at that, there aren't enough for all the students to take the test at once, not enough computers, not enough rooms to put more computers in if they had them, so each tests stretches on for weeks.  Did I mention that the computers tend to crash halfway through the test, so the students have to start all over again another day?

bmorrill

Quote from: inkyatari on March 31, 2017, 09:05:50 AM

Whenever cutting money comes into play, the politicians always threaten those who really make peanuts compared to those who are really overpaid. 

That's my wife's complaint - "They always cut the peons' pay, never the pay of the executives that are making multi-million dollar salaries and/or bonuses." (yes Blue Cross, I'm looking at you!)

kkt

A high school stadium doesn't have to be fancy.  Grass, bleachers at both sides, done.  (Not like college or pro, don't get me started on those.)  At least in high school there's many sports, and students can be participants in at least one if they want to, not just sitting on their butts watching.  Eliminating stadiums wouldn't even put a dent in the K-12 funding crisis.  Probably not even most colleges.

kalvado

Quote from: kkt on March 31, 2017, 12:58:06 PM
A high school stadium doesn't have to be fancy.  Grass, bleachers at both sides, done.  (Not like college or pro, don't get me started on those.)  At least in high school there's many sports, and students can be participants in at least one if they want to, not just sitting on their butts watching.  Eliminating stadiums wouldn't even put a dent in the K-12 funding crisis.  Probably not even most colleges.
In particular, Union High School in Tulsa OK was mentioned. Here are some photos:
http://www.maxpreps.com/news/AfHq4HohlEe3BpvPo0Agyg/photos--the-incredible-facilities-of-tulsas-union-high-school.htm
I am not sure if that is good enough for 4300 enrolled students..

intelati49


SD Mapman

#59
Not to mention their SECOND turf field (probably practice/JV) on the other side of the building (with a seven?!? lane track).

Their second field would be a state-of-the-art facility for a solo high school in SD (we have slightly nicer ones, but they're either shared between multiple high schools or a high school and college).
The traveler sees what he sees, the tourist sees what he has come to see. - G.K. Chesterton



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