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Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered at https://www.aaroads.com/forum/index.php?topic=33904.0
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Author Topic: "California State Route 10"  (Read 5989 times)

404inthe404

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"California State Route 10"
« on: October 21, 2017, 10:40:36 PM »

This is probably a case of my imagination, but driving from Las Vegas to Palm Springs today taking the "backroads," I swore there was a sign indicating to take a left for "California SR 10" on Amboy approaching Adobe.

Unfortunately, Google Maps is absolutely useless in this case:

https://www.google.com/maps/@34.1648025,-116.0519214,3a,90y,299.45h,98.45t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBHLjP8iFyNamqBv-PHv91g!2e0!7i3328!8i1664

Anyone happen to know if it does say "California SR 10" or am I crazy?
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: "California State Route 10"
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2017, 01:03:36 AM »

I used to travel Amboy Road frequently about five years ago on work travels.  I don't recall anything showing even I-10 heading into 29 Palms.  I would imagine it's possible there is a mistake shield out there somewhere, I know there is a California spade showing "395" in the AAroads shield gallery. 
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emory

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Re: "California State Route 10"
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2017, 10:38:05 PM »

It wouldn't surprise me. I've seen interstates and US routes in California labeled as state roads because technically Interstate 10 is also California State Route 10 so no one sees them as errors. Here's a sign approaching I-15 labeling it as SR 15.

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mapman1071

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Re: "California State Route 10"
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2017, 04:12:36 PM »

I thought that the freeway Between The Golden State/San Bernardino Freeway Interchange and the Hollywood/San Bernardino Freeway Interchange was Unsigned CA-10
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Occidental Tourist

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Re: "California State Route 10"
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2017, 10:40:21 AM »

It’s chargeable interstate, so it’s unsigned Interstate 10.
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mapman1071

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Re: "California State Route 10"
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2017, 09:22:35 PM »

It’s chargeable interstate, so it’s unsigned Interstate 10.

How If I-10 is mutiplexed with I-5 Between San Bernardino Fwy and Santa Monica Fwy
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cahwyguy

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Re: "California State Route 10"
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2017, 09:50:40 PM »

The history of the various incarnations of Route 10 are a bit complex. Take a look at http://www.cahighways.org/009-016.html#010 . Pasting a bit:

In 1934, Route 10 was signed along the routing from Jct. Route 3 (US 101A, later Route 1) south of Venice to Jct. US 101 at Santa Ana, via Manchester Avenue and Santa Ana Blvd. This routing was LRN 174 from US 101A (Route 1, Lincoln Blvd) in Los Angeles along Manchester and Firestone Blvds to US 101 in Norwalk. Sometime between 1934 and 1963, the routing was resigned as Route 42. Specifics are not available, but the guess is that the resignage occurred in the late 1950s in preparation for the interstate. (1956 and 1960 maps shows it as Route 10; the 1963 state map (pre-renumbering) shows it as Route 42). Before signage as US-101, the routing (signed as Route 10, but LRN 174) continued on down to Orangethorpe, and then across Orangethorpe past Route 101 (Spadra Road, at that time) and E through Atwood, until joining the old surface route equivalent to US 101 (LRN 2). Some maps show Route 10 ending at the junction with Route 18 (later renumbered as Route 14, but cosigned with US 91; LRN 175 and LRN 178). It appears that, by 1942, Route 10 was also signed as Bypass US 101.

On July 1, 1964, LRN 174 (at one time signed as Route 10), between US 101A and US 101 in Norwalk, was officially designated Route 42, and has since been deleted from the state highway system.

In 1963, the first segment of Route 10 (I-10, Santa Monica Freeway) was defined as "Route 1 in Santa Monica to Route 105 near Soto Street." (Route 105, at that time, was the portion of current US 101 from the San Bernardino to Santa Monica freeways)

In 1968, Chapter 385 changed the definitions of Route 105 ("from Route 5 to the junction of Route 110 (now part of Route 10) and US-101") and Route 110 ("from Route 105 to the junction of Routes 5 and 10") from their former stub routes in downtown, creating the present day I-105 routing. At this point, the definition of Route 10 was changed to "Route 1 in Santa Monica to Route 5 near Seventh Street in Los Angeles", and US 101 was changed to start at "Route 5 near Seventh Street in Los Angeles".

This segment is now From Route 1 in Santa Monica to Route 5 near Seventh Street in Los Angeles.

The San Bernardino Segment is as follows:

In 1963, this routing was defined as "Route 110 in Los Angeles to the Arizona state line at the Colorado River via the vicinity of Monterey Park, Pomona, Colton, Indio, and Shaver's Summit, and via Blythe, and includes that portion of the Colorado River highway bridge (near Ehrenburg, Arizona) which is within the State of California. The department may contract with the State of Arizona, for and on behalf of the State of California, for the maintenance of such bridge." Route 110 referred to a stub route downtown (in particular, the portion between the two segments of Route 10).

Some history of the East LA interchange, including the connection between the two segments of I-10, may be found in the discussion of US 101.

In 1968, the stub Route 105 and Route 110 were elimated, and the portion from Route 101 to Route 5 was transferred from former Route 110. This changed the routing to "(b) Route 101 near Mission Road in Los Angeles to Route 5. (c) Route 5 in Los Angeles to the Arizona state line at the Colorado River...", reflecting the slight discontinuity at Route 5.

In 1984, the two segments were combined, and the text about Arizona was removed, giving the definition of "(b) Route 101 near Mission Road in Los Angeles to the Arizona state line at the Colorado River via the vicinity of Monterey Park, Pomona, Colton, Indio, and Chiriaco Summit and via Blythe."
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bing101

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Re: "California State Route 10"
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2017, 11:44:18 PM »

It wouldn't surprise me. I've seen interstates and US routes in California labeled as state roads because technically Interstate 10 is also California State Route 10 so no one sees them as errors. Here's a sign approaching I-15 labeling it as SR 15.



Wait I thought CA-15 only exists in San Diego and not in the Barstow area. But then again some notable 3digit freeways like 110 and 210 are signed in both CA spade and Interstate shield due to portions designation.

« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 11:46:22 PM by bing101 »
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oscar

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Re: "California State Route 10"
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2017, 01:09:50 AM »

It’s chargeable interstate, so it’s unsigned Interstate 10.

IIUC, it's no longer chargeable Interstate, so it's an unsigned and non-Interstate part of route 10. It was a former incarnation of I-110, but in the late 1960s it lost its route 110 designation, was added to route 10, and was removed from the Interstate system. Its chargeable Interstate mileage, along with bits and pieces from other deleted Interstate segments, was reallocated to the new I-105 freeway. See table in http://www.cahighways.org/105-112.html#105.
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Occidental Tourist

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Re: "California State Route 10"
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2017, 03:31:21 AM »

It’s chargeable interstate, so it’s unsigned Interstate 10.

IIUC, it's no longer chargeable Interstate, so it's an unsigned and non-Interstate part of route 10. It was a former incarnation of I-110, but in the late 1960s it lost its route 110 designation, was added to route 10, and was removed from the Interstate system. Its chargeable Interstate mileage, along with bits and pieces from other deleted Interstate segments, was reallocated to the new I-105 freeway. See table in http://www.cahighways.org/105-112.html#105.

You are correct.  My bad.
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mrsman

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Re: "California State Route 10"
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2017, 07:54:51 AM »

It’s chargeable interstate, so it’s unsigned Interstate 10.

IIUC, it's no longer chargeable Interstate, so it's an unsigned and non-Interstate part of route 10. It was a former incarnation of I-110, but in the late 1960s it lost its route 110 designation, was added to route 10, and was removed from the Interstate system. Its chargeable Interstate mileage, along with bits and pieces from other deleted Interstate segments, was reallocated to the new I-105 freeway. See table in http://www.cahighways.org/105-112.html#105.

You are correct.  My bad.

IMO, this was a good thing.  There really is no need for a short signed segment of I-110 along the San Bernardino Freeway, between I-5 (Golden State) and US 101 (Santa Ana Freeway).  Yes, I-10 is signed along the Golden State Fwy, because that is the most logical connection between the SB Fwy and the SM Fwy.  The transition from the SB to the US 101 is relatively short and is signed with BGSes westbound as US 101 and eastbound as I-10.  Yes, it might be more technically correct to say "TO US 101" or "TO I-10" but what is there now is totally sufficient and not confusing to the driving public.

There are other short freeways around the country that serve a similar purpose of connecting two longer freeways that don't really need their own number and should probably be signed in a similar manner.  I-695 in NY comes to mind as a connector from I-95 to I-295 in Bronx, NY near the Throgs Neck Bridge.  It does not need a separate highway number.  It could be signed just as well as "To I-95" and "To I-295".

Now, I put in place an idea in Fictional Highways to sign the Santa Monica Fwy as part of CA-60 (or ideally US-60) because it is a logical conclusion of the Pomona Fwy.  More lanes of the Santa Monica lead to the Pomona than to the Golden State (and eventually the San Bernardino).  It is also 2 miles shorter to drive from the East LA interchange to Beaumont (and all points further east) via CA-60 than via the I-10 routing.  Drivers making the transition from the Santa Monica to the San Bernardino should do it as far east as they can, since I-605 and CA-57 (and I-15 and I-215) are all much less congested than I-5.  If such an idea were to take place, I-10 would properly be signed to end at US 101.
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Desert Man

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Re: "California State Route 10"
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2017, 01:47:44 PM »

I used to travel Amboy Road frequently about five years ago on work travels.  I don't recall anything showing even I-10 heading into 29 Palms.  I would imagine it's possible there is a mistake shield out there somewhere, I know there is a California spade showing "395" in the AAroads shield gallery. 

yeah, weird mistakes on Googlemaps. A few years ago, Googlemaps gave CA SR 243, 247 and 371 "US" highway shields. Unless this has to do with the Juan Bautista de Anza historic trail, the Spanish explorer in the 1770s - he might traveled on the trails later became roads. CA SR 111 in all 9 cities of Palm Springs area/Coachella Valley are now maintained by the cities, but the "US" shield - unless it's historic route 111. Varner Road later become Indio Blvd. and Harrison St. were US route 99. I don't believe Grapefruit Blvd. was an US highway. I want my Thomas Bros. Guides (ink and paper on print) instead of using the intrwebznetz to get to know my highways.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: "California State Route 10"
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2017, 01:58:04 PM »

I used to travel Amboy Road frequently about five years ago on work travels.  I don't recall anything showing even I-10 heading into 29 Palms.  I would imagine it's possible there is a mistake shield out there somewhere, I know there is a California spade showing "395" in the AAroads shield gallery. 

yeah, weird mistakes on Googlemaps. A few years ago, Googlemaps gave CA SR 243, 247 and 371 "US" highway shields. Unless this has to do with the Juan Bautista de Anza historic trail, the Spanish explorer in the 1770s - he might traveled on the trails later became roads. CA SR 111 in all 9 cities of Palm Springs area/Coachella Valley are now maintained by the cities, but the "US" shield - unless it's historic route 111. Varner Road later become Indio Blvd. and Harrison St. were US route 99. I don't believe Grapefruit Blvd. was an US highway. I want my Thomas Bros. Guides (ink and paper on print) instead of using the intrwebznetz to get to know my highways.

US 60 used to go through Mecca on Box Canyon Road when it was extended to California, Grapefruit Boulevard appears to be part of the alignment northwest to Indio:

https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~239594~5511896:Road-Map-of-the-State-of-California?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:caltrans;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=73&trs=86
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sparker

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Re: "California State Route 10"
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2017, 04:43:43 AM »

I used to travel Amboy Road frequently about five years ago on work travels.  I don't recall anything showing even I-10 heading into 29 Palms.  I would imagine it's possible there is a mistake shield out there somewhere, I know there is a California spade showing "395" in the AAroads shield gallery. 

yeah, weird mistakes on Googlemaps. A few years ago, Googlemaps gave CA SR 243, 247 and 371 "US" highway shields. Unless this has to do with the Juan Bautista de Anza historic trail, the Spanish explorer in the 1770s - he might traveled on the trails later became roads. CA SR 111 in all 9 cities of Palm Springs area/Coachella Valley are now maintained by the cities, but the "US" shield - unless it's historic route 111. Varner Road later become Indio Blvd. and Harrison St. were US route 99. I don't believe Grapefruit Blvd. was an US highway. I want my Thomas Bros. Guides (ink and paper on print) instead of using the intrwebznetz to get to know my highways.

US 60 used to go through Mecca on Box Canyon Road when it was extended to California, Grapefruit Boulevard appears to be part of the alignment northwest to Indio:

https://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~239594~5511896:Road-Map-of-the-State-of-California?sort=Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No&qvq=q:caltrans;sort:Pub_List_No_InitialSort%2CPub_Date%2CPub_List_No%2CSeries_No;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=73&trs=86

The original US 60 route east of the Coachella Valley did originally use LRN 64 east of the SSR 74/111 junction in Indio, multiplexing with both US 99 and SSR 111 (SSR 74 terminated at the Indio intersection with US 60/99) SE down to near Thermal, where US 99 veered due south to follow the west Salton Sea shoreline; US 60 multiplexed with SSR 111 to Mecca, where it turned east through Box Canyon before assuming the present alignment east of Chiriaco Summit.  When the Dillon Road "cutoff" was built just SE of Indio, bypassing both Mecca and Box Canyon (which was windy and prone to flash floods), it was designated as a branch of LRN 64, which also remained from Mecca to the new alignment.  An extension of the E-W trajectory west of Mecca and ending at US 99 (LRN 26) was brought into the system along with a N-S connector that cut several miles off to SB US 99; from Mecca to this connector and the N-S connector itself was designated as LRN 203; the remaining E-W segment became LRN 204 (all this taking place in the mid-1930's).  LRN 203 and the Box Canyon portion of LRN 64 became the new SSR 195, a number previously applied to US 95 from Blythe to the NV state line NW of Needles; LRN 204 was unsigned until it became CA 231 in the '64 renumbering, but deleted from the system some years later.   
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emory

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Re: "California State Route 10"
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2017, 12:51:53 AM »

It’s chargeable interstate, so it’s unsigned Interstate 10.

IIUC, it's no longer chargeable Interstate, so it's an unsigned and non-Interstate part of route 10. It was a former incarnation of I-110, but in the late 1960s it lost its route 110 designation, was added to route 10, and was removed from the Interstate system. Its chargeable Interstate mileage, along with bits and pieces from other deleted Interstate segments, was reallocated to the new I-105 freeway. See table in http://www.cahighways.org/105-112.html#105.

You are correct.  My bad.

IMO, this was a good thing.  There really is no need for a short signed segment of I-110 along the San Bernardino Freeway, between I-5 (Golden State) and US 101 (Santa Ana Freeway).  Yes, I-10 is signed along the Golden State Fwy, because that is the most logical connection between the SB Fwy and the SM Fwy.  The transition from the SB to the US 101 is relatively short and is signed with BGSes westbound as US 101 and eastbound as I-10.  Yes, it might be more technically correct to say "TO US 101" or "TO I-10" but what is there now is totally sufficient and not confusing to the driving public.

I-10 is actually not signed along the Golden State Freeway. Overhead signs point traffic to the other segment of I-10 via I-5, but in terms of road signs, only I-5 shields appear. Streets that exit onto that segment also only acknowledge it as I-5.
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sparker

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Re: "California State Route 10"
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2017, 01:35:52 AM »

It’s chargeable interstate, so it’s unsigned Interstate 10.

IIUC, it's no longer chargeable Interstate, so it's an unsigned and non-Interstate part of route 10. It was a former incarnation of I-110, but in the late 1960s it lost its route 110 designation, was added to route 10, and was removed from the Interstate system. Its chargeable Interstate mileage, along with bits and pieces from other deleted Interstate segments, was reallocated to the new I-105 freeway. See table in http://www.cahighways.org/105-112.html#105.

You are correct.  My bad.

IMO, this was a good thing.  There really is no need for a short signed segment of I-110 along the San Bernardino Freeway, between I-5 (Golden State) and US 101 (Santa Ana Freeway).  Yes, I-10 is signed along the Golden State Fwy, because that is the most logical connection between the SB Fwy and the SM Fwy.  The transition from the SB to the US 101 is relatively short and is signed with BGSes westbound as US 101 and eastbound as I-10.  Yes, it might be more technically correct to say "TO US 101" or "TO I-10" but what is there now is totally sufficient and not confusing to the driving public.

I-10 is actually not signed along the Golden State Freeway. Overhead signs point traffic to the other segment of I-10 via I-5, but in terms of road signs, only I-5 shields appear. Streets that exit onto that segment also only acknowledge it as I-5.

Didn't start out that way; at the time I-10 was extended west to the Harbor Freeway (present I-110) at the end of 1962, there was a roadside BGS northbound right after the 5/10 merge stating "NORTH I-5/EAST I-10" and "Golden State Freeway" immediately below the shields.  This sign persisted until about 1973-74, when it disappeared.  Conversely, at the end of the WB>SB ramp taking I-10 from the San Bernardino to the Golden State Freeway, there were South I-5 and West I-10 reassurance shields attached to a lighting pole, again, right after that merge.  That duo didn't last quite as long; they were gone by about 1971.  But AFAIK, there never were any I-10 trailblazers on the streets interchanging with that freeway.     
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