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Monroe US 74 Bypass

Started by index, October 31, 2017, 10:37:36 AM

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wdcrft63

Quote from: Henry on June 04, 2018, 10:24:26 AM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on December 19, 2017, 06:39:32 PM
Quote from: hockeyjohn on December 19, 2017, 09:59:23 AM
When US-74 was extended from Asheville to Chattanooga in the early 1990's, it seemed like a prelude for an extension of I-24 across the mountains and down to Wilmington.   That route number fits decently into the grid.

There's zero chance that US 74 would ever be upgraded to interstate standards between Asheville and Chattanooga. The cost is too great and the need too little. But there could be an interstate along US 74 from I-26 to Wilmington; I-36 would be a good number for that route.
Then again, any other number in the 30s would also fit (32, 34 and 38), because it is completely south of I-40, and none of those numbers have ever been used before. If the Chattanooga extension were doable, then I-24 could be used here, but since it's impossible, then the 30s would be the next best thing.
That's correct. I suggested 36 because there is no NC 36.


jcarte29

This thing is super close to completion! I drove through Monroe yesterday, and new BGS were in place (and I finally understand the configuration at the western end...all traffic actually rides the new expressway off I-485 and where it feeds off now will be frontage roads)

Forgive me as I'm sure I should have figured it out long ago, but it's going to be sooooo convenient when finished!
Interstates I've driven on (Complete and/or partial, no particular order)
------------------
40, 85, 95, 77, 277(NC), 485(NC), 440(NC), 540(NC), 795(NC), 140(NC), 73, 74, 840(NC), 26, 20, 75, 285(GA), 81, 64, 71, 275(OH), 465(IN), 65, 264(VA), 240(NC), 295(VA), 526(SC), 985(GA), 395(FL), 195(FL)

cowboy_wilhelm

Quote from: orulz on November 10, 2017, 08:58:09 PM
Quote from: LM117 on November 01, 2017, 07:49:35 AM
Quote from: Third Strike on October 31, 2017, 06:04:08 PMI believe the new name is the Monroe Expressway, which makes more sense. I'm really interested in what the daily traffic count will be on this road, especially since Union County has some of the worst congestion in the metro. I'm also wondering if being a toll road will curtail the inevitable sprawl in that side of the county. Right now it's nothing but farmland.

I'm interested in the traffic counts, too. I can't help but wonder how many will shunpike the toll road by sticking with US-74.
Quite a few people initially tried that with the parallel routes for NC540 in western Wake County. Even though they widened NC55 in roughly 2004, Davis Drive in roughly 2008, opened 540 in 2013, and are currently working on Green Level Church as another parallel route, the TriEx has been soundly beating expectations. Basically what it comes down to is this: with so much growth, shunpikers will easily overwhelm the parallel free routes, especially during rush hour, leaving plenty of traffic to take the toll road. Is there any reason to expect Monroe won't be the same?

I was surprised how much traffic was on 540 during the morning commute a couple of weeks ago. I was going the opposite direction, and while I wouldn't call it congested (by Triangle standards), it didn't look like there was a lot of mobility. Considering how fast that part of the county is growing, there may be people paying a toll to sit in traffic ten years from now.

cowboy_wilhelm

Quote from: Henry on June 04, 2018, 10:24:26 AM
Quote from: wdcrft63 on December 19, 2017, 06:39:32 PM
Quote from: hockeyjohn on December 19, 2017, 09:59:23 AM
Quote from: roadman65 on November 13, 2017, 02:21:09 PM
Quote from: Avalanchez71 on November 13, 2017, 11:08:36 AM
US 74 in Monroe is already a bypass.  Why does NC like to spend so much money?
Its like Kokomo, IN on US 31.  Originally it went through Downtown Kokomo and then Indiana built the current IN 931 as a bypass for that which eventually opened the door for sprawl leading to strip malls and a bunch of big box retailers to congest that bypass.  So IN built a freeway bypass of the 1955 arterial one a few years back.  Of course the freeway won't get slammed with development, but of course the interchanges will soon boom with businesses, but that is for another story.

However, the same thing happened there.

IMO this is why I-74 should be part of an E-W interstate corridor along US 74 from Charlotte to Wilmington as with the need for the tolled Fulton Bypass shows that all of US 74 east of Charlotte is worthy of a continuous freeway.  Being part of a diagonal NW to SE corridor with 2 other states not even planning to build their parts is helping a small section of a bigger piece that could use the whole 100 yards as per whatever purpose the N-S portion of I-74 ( redundant to I-73) will serve.

When US-74 was extended from Asheville to Chattanooga in the early 1990's, it seemed like a prelude for an extension of I-24 across the mountains and down to Wilmington.   That route number fits decently into the grid.

There's zero chance that US 74 would ever be upgraded to interstate standards between Asheville and Chattanooga. The cost is too great and the need too little. But there could be an interstate along US 74 from I-26 to Wilmington; I-36 would be a good number for that route.
Then again, any other number in the 30s would also fit (32, 34 and 38), because it is completely south of I-40, and none of those numbers have ever been used before. If the Chattanooga extension were doable, then I-24 could be used here, but since it's impossible, then the 30s would be the next best thing.

This is a bit off topic, but something I've wondered about is what's going to happen when I-40 through the Pigeon River gorge reaches capacity? Even with relatively low volume now, congestion can be an issue due to the number of trucks, curves and grades. There's no room for expansion without blasting away 20 miles of mountain and rock and building as much retaining wall and fill. All while keeping the highway open. Yeah, right.

Does upgrading 74 then become more warranted and feasible? Would it make a difference? The I-26 extension was supposed to be an alternative, and it's barely used.

froggie

Quote from: cowboy_wilhelmConsidering how fast that part of the county is growing, there may be people paying a toll to sit in traffic ten years from now.

I doubt that.  Especially now with electronic tolling technology, they can adjust tolls to nearly-guarantee** a minimum 45 MPH drive along a toll road.  I can easily see NCDOT adjusting the tolls along 540 along the same lines as the DC area does to minimize congestion.

** - excluding crashes or significant weather events.

jcarte29

Quote from: froggie on August 19, 2018, 09:21:17 AM
Quote from: cowboy_wilhelmConsidering how fast that part of the county is growing, there may be people paying a toll to sit in traffic ten years from now.

I doubt that.  Especially now with electronic tolling technology, they can adjust tolls to nearly-guarantee** a minimum 45 MPH drive along a toll road.  I can easily see NCDOT adjusting the tolls along 540 along the same lines as the DC area does to minimize congestion.

** - excluding crashes or significant weather events.

IMHO, I think Monroe will be its own test case and can't closely be compared to NC 540.

While both roads are full toll and not managed HOT lanes, the majority of folks using 74 now are cross region/cross state commuters between Charlotte - Rockingham and points south and east. Take those vehicles off 74 mainline and on to the toll by-pass; it will help the locals who probably have no reason to use the toll.

I did see on Twitter yesterday that officials with NC Quick Pass had a booth set up at Wingate as the fall semester starts. That's smart, because I think both parents and students will use that road since it dumps right at Wingate.

I'm sure it can be subject to annual price increases, but I'm not sure the NC Turnpike Authority will spike them as they might in urban Raleigh and Charlotte.
Interstates I've driven on (Complete and/or partial, no particular order)
------------------
40, 85, 95, 77, 277(NC), 485(NC), 440(NC), 540(NC), 795(NC), 140(NC), 73, 74, 840(NC), 26, 20, 75, 285(GA), 81, 64, 71, 275(OH), 465(IN), 65, 264(VA), 240(NC), 295(VA), 526(SC), 985(GA), 395(FL), 195(FL)

ccurley100

I took a few pics around Stallings a couple of weeks ago. https://photos.app.goo.gl/x7C1wPYXMbGohxHq9


iPhone

jcarte29

Quote from: ccurley100 on August 24, 2018, 10:30:34 AM
I took a few pics around Stallings a couple of weeks ago. https://photos.app.goo.gl/x7C1wPYXMbGohxHq9


iPhone

Now that I've been able to see with my eyes how it will continue off I-485 (with the stallings road exit that for right now carries the traffic) it makes it seem a lot smoother than just looking at a map. It's going to be super super nice.
Interstates I've driven on (Complete and/or partial, no particular order)
------------------
40, 85, 95, 77, 277(NC), 485(NC), 440(NC), 540(NC), 795(NC), 140(NC), 73, 74, 840(NC), 26, 20, 75, 285(GA), 81, 64, 71, 275(OH), 465(IN), 65, 264(VA), 240(NC), 295(VA), 526(SC), 985(GA), 395(FL), 195(FL)

index

Update, a new section that US 74 main will be routed through has opened, (this, courtesy of ccurley https://photos.app.goo.gl/hJKFQqqg1SRsHofa9)  and there are now fully signed, exit-only ramps to frontage roads going off of main 74.
I love my 2010 Ford Explorer.



Counties traveled

Chris

The Monroe Expressway opens to traffic today: https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/channel-9-tests-monroe-expressway/878868992

It is signed as the US 74 Bypass. Is it the first "bypass route" of a US Highway to be a toll road? I know tolled US Highways are rare to begin with...

jcarte29

Quote from: Chris on November 27, 2018, 08:54:12 AM
It is signed as the US 74 Bypass. Is it the first "bypass route" of a US Highway to be a toll road? I know tolled US Highways are rare to begin with...

That's interesting to learn. A couple other observations (simply from the news pictures, as I write this (9:14) we are still inside an hour of it's ceremony)

- It shows Rockingham *and* Wilmington as control cities, that's impressive (Monroe and Indian Trail for mainline US 74)
- Ground level signage will have the same white square "mini" advertising NC Quick Pass/Bill By Mail
- In difference with NC's other Toll Road (NC 540) the mileage posts on ME are not blue and do not state the road as "TOLL"

Any other observations? Who's going out there today?
Interstates I've driven on (Complete and/or partial, no particular order)
------------------
40, 85, 95, 77, 277(NC), 485(NC), 440(NC), 540(NC), 795(NC), 140(NC), 73, 74, 840(NC), 26, 20, 75, 285(GA), 81, 64, 71, 275(OH), 465(IN), 65, 264(VA), 240(NC), 295(VA), 526(SC), 985(GA), 395(FL), 195(FL)

index

Quote from: jcarte29 on November 27, 2018, 09:16:45 AM
Quote from: Chris on November 27, 2018, 08:54:12 AM
It is signed as the US 74 Bypass. Is it the first "bypass route" of a US Highway to be a toll road? I know tolled US Highways are rare to begin with...

That's interesting to learn. A couple other observations (simply from the news pictures, as I write this (9:14) we are still inside an hour of it's ceremony)

- It shows Rockingham *and* Wilmington as control cities, that's impressive (Monroe and Indian Trail for mainline US 74)
- Ground level signage will have the same white square "mini" advertising NC Quick Pass/Bill By Mail
- In difference with NC's other Toll Road (NC 540) the mileage posts on ME are not blue and do not state the road as "TOLL"

Any other observations? Who's going out there today?


I plan on driving out there and clinching the bypass today if I'm not tired by the time I get home. If I do I'll report back here, hopefully with some observations.
I love my 2010 Ford Explorer.



Counties traveled

froggie

Quote from: Chris on November 27, 2018, 08:54:12 AM
It is signed as the US 74 Bypass. Is it the first "bypass route" of a US Highway to be a toll road? I know tolled US Highways are rare to begin with...

As a signed Bypass US route that happens to be tolled, it's either the first or the second.   What is now US 3 around Nashua, NH was initially designated as BYPASS US 3 until the mid-1970s.  As this is also part of the Everett Turnpike, it's possible it was tolled at the time, but I'll need to do more research in order to verify one way or the other.

Henry

I know it's well worth the wait! And I agree, it should become part of a new 2di connecting Rockingham to I-26, although I wouldn't hold my breath.
Go Cubs Go! Go Cubs Go! Hey Chicago, what do you say? The Cubs are gonna win today!

Mapmikey

Quote from: froggie on November 27, 2018, 11:26:57 AM
Quote from: Chris on November 27, 2018, 08:54:12 AM
It is signed as the US 74 Bypass. Is it the first "bypass route" of a US Highway to be a toll road? I know tolled US Highways are rare to begin with...

As a signed Bypass US route that happens to be tolled, it's either the first or the second.   What is now US 3 around Nashua, NH was initially designated as BYPASS US 3 until the mid-1970s.  As this is also part of the Everett Turnpike, it's possible it was tolled at the time, but I'll need to do more research in order to verify one way or the other.


Does US 278 Hilton Head count for this discussion?  Or does it have to be signed specifically with a BYPASS banner?

The 1961 Rand McN shows Everett Tpk as non-tolled from Exit 1 to Exit 3...

Roadsguy

That APL is a very tall sign assembly.
Mileage-based exit numbering implies the existence of mileage-cringe exit numbering.

sprjus4

I find it odd how (at least the northern one) the split between the toll road and the old road, the toll road is signed as an exit (Exit 255) whereas the old route has continuity. But then you hop on the bypass and the exit scheme continues (Exit 257, etc.)

I understand it is a "Bypass" route and a toll road, but usually it would still have continuity. At that split, U.S. 74 toward Monroe and Indian Trail should be Exit 255. Most bypasses in North Carolina are as such.

Just curious, how is it signed at the southern end?

Roadsguy

Quote from: sprjus4 on November 28, 2018, 07:14:11 AM
I find it odd how (at least the northern one) the split between the toll road and the old road, the toll road is signed as an exit (Exit 255) whereas the old route has continuity. But then you hop on the bypass and the exit scheme continues (Exit 257, etc.)

I understand it is a "Bypass" route and a toll road, but usually it would still have continuity. At that split, U.S. 74 toward Monroe and Indian Trail should be Exit 255. Most bypasses in North Carolina are as such.

Just curious, how is it signed at the southern end?

By "northern" do you mean the one closer to I-485? US 74 is east-west.

That exit numbering is odd, especially with "old" 74 having no numbered exits, though it seems NCDOT is trending toward making new routes Bypass routes and leaving the originals where they are (e.g. Goldsboro) so that with an eventual Interstate designation, AASHTO can't deny them from moving the US route back to the inferior alignment. Can't imagine they'll be in much of a hurry to put an Interstate designation on this toll road, though.
Mileage-based exit numbering implies the existence of mileage-cringe exit numbering.

LM117

Quote from: Roadsguy on November 28, 2018, 09:28:54 AMthough it seems NCDOT is trending toward making new routes Bypass routes and leaving the originals where they are (e.g. Goldsboro) so that with an eventual Interstate designation, AASHTO can't deny them from moving the US route back to the inferior alignment.

...except for the Clayton Bypass. Rather than signing it as US-70 Bypass, NCDOT just signed it as US-70 and changed it's old route through Clayton to US-70 Business. I never understood why they did that.
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette

wriddle082

Anybody know how long it usually takes for Google to update their maps with major new road openings?  As of this minute, no sign of the Monroe Expressway except for the new realignments of regular 74 at each end.

ccurley100

Quote from: wriddle082 on November 28, 2018, 01:45:21 PM
Anybody know how long it usually takes for Google to update their maps with major new road openings?  As of this minute, no sign of the Monroe Expressway except for the new realignments of regular 74 at each end.
Waze had it updated last night.


iPhone

Interstate 69 Fan

Quote from: ccurley100 on November 28, 2018, 01:48:01 PM
Quote from: wriddle082 on November 28, 2018, 01:45:21 PM
Anybody know how long it usually takes for Google to update their maps with major new road openings?  As of this minute, no sign of the Monroe Expressway except for the new realignments of regular 74 at each end.
Waze had it updated last night.


iPhone
It takes them a long time. They still haven't updated Indiana 37 to I-69.
Apparently I’m a fan of I-69.  Who knew.

Roadsguy

What's the speed limit on the expressway? Is it continuous to I-485?
Mileage-based exit numbering implies the existence of mileage-cringe exit numbering.

sprjus4

#48
Quote from: Roadsguy on November 28, 2018, 05:18:58 PM
What's the speed limit on the expressway? Is it continuous to I-485?
The speed limit on the rural portion is 65 MPH (wouldn't be surprised if it's raised to 70 MPH later on, similar to how NC 540 was), I do not know the speed limit on the elevated section near I-485, I would assume at least 55 MPH, maybe holds 65 MPH. At least hopefully not like the M.L.K. Freeway here in Hampton Roads, where 3 miles of limited-access road, built to interstate standards, and straight is 45 MPH.

Edit - I don't know how true this is, but Waze reports the speed limit on the elevated portion stays 65 MPH all the way to I-485, while the frontage roads have 35 MPH. The speed limit drops to 55 MPH after the first exit to I-485 (which takes both directions of traffic via the flyover), then back to 45 MPH after I-485.

sprjus4

Quote from: Roadsguy on November 28, 2018, 09:28:54 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on November 28, 2018, 07:14:11 AM
I find it odd how (at least the northern one) the split between the toll road and the old road, the toll road is signed as an exit (Exit 255) whereas the old route has continuity. But then you hop on the bypass and the exit scheme continues (Exit 257, etc.)

I understand it is a "Bypass" route and a toll road, but usually it would still have continuity. At that split, U.S. 74 toward Monroe and Indian Trail should be Exit 255. Most bypasses in North Carolina are as such.

Just curious, how is it signed at the southern end?

By "northern" do you mean the one closer to I-485? US 74 is east-west.

That exit numbering is odd, especially with "old" 74 having no numbered exits, though it seems NCDOT is trending toward making new routes Bypass routes and leaving the originals where they are (e.g. Goldsboro) so that with an eventual Interstate designation, AASHTO can't deny them from moving the US route back to the inferior alignment. Can't imagine they'll be in much of a hurry to put an Interstate designation on this toll road, though.
Apologize about that, am referring to the western end (closer to I-485). I agree with the bypass designations as opposed to normal routing, and if interstate ever reaches, then it can be fully eliminated with no impacts. However, usually when a bypass is signed, it still holds continuity. Elizabeth City, Windsor, Goldsboro, etc. are all signed as "Bypass", however it is one continuous freeway, with the existing route referred to as an "Exit". I just find it weird how here, the "Bypass" is considered an "Exit", yet it's the one that has the exits, not the old road. At least the roads SHOWS continuity, with existing traffic still having to keep right to "exit", and free-flowing traffic in the left lanes.



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