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Author Topic: The Real story on El Camino Real  (Read 3252 times)

bing101

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Max Rockatansky

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Re: The Real story on El Camino Real
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2017, 05:11:56 PM »

Much of US 101 deviates significantly from the actual paths and trails that were on the actual El Camino Real.  Even something like the San Juan Grade which checked out recently is a significant deviation from the actual Spanish Road.  Maybe that would make for an interesting thread to gather up maps showing what roads are the closest analogs to the actual alignments of the El Camino Real.  Either way there was a ton of Spanish Roads in general all across Alta California in general, it just so happens that the ones associated with US 101 happen to be the most famous.
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DTComposer

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Re: The Real story on El Camino Real
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2017, 07:17:48 PM »

Here's an approximation of current state routes (with a couple of exceptions) that get you within spitting distance of the missions, plus the four presidios and two pueblos:

-Start at Presidio Real de San Diego
-I-8 east to San Diego de Acalá
-I-8 west; I-805 north; I-5 north; CA-76 east to San Luis Rey
-I-5 north to San Juan Capistrano
-I-5 north; (former) CA-72 north; CA-19 north; I-10 west to Mission San Gabriel Arcángel
-I-10 west; US-101 north to Pueblo de Los Angeles
-US-101 north; CA-170 north; I-5 north to San Fernando Rey de España
-CA-118 west; CA-126 west; US-101 north to San Buenaventura
-US-101 north to Santa Barbara and El Presidio Real de Santa Barbara
-US-101 north; CA-154 north; CA-246 west to Santa Inés
-CA-246 west to La Purísima Concepción
-CA-1 north; CA-135 north; US-101 north to San Luis Obispo de Tolosa
-US-101 north to San Miguel Arcángel
-US-101 north; County Route G-18 north; County Route G-14 north to San Antonio de Padua
-County Route G-14 north; US-101 north to Nuestra Señora de la Soledad
-US-101 north; CA-68 west to San Carlos Borromeo de Carmelo and Presidio Real de San Carlos de Monterey
-CA-1 north; CA-156 north; US-101 north; CA-156 north (east) to San Juan Bautista
-US-101 north; CA-129 west; CA-1 north to Santa Cruz
-CA-17 north; I-880 north to Pueblo de San José de Guadalupe
(east split)
-I-880 north; CA-262 east; I-680 north to San José
(west split)
-CA-82 north to Santa Clara de Asís
-CA-82 north; I-280 north; US-101 north to San Francisco de Asís and El Presidio Real de San Francisco
-US-101 north to San Rafael Arcángel
-US-101 north; CA-37 east; CA-121 north; CA-12 west to San Francisco Solano and El Presidio de Sonoma

I used CA-72 and CA-82 even though they're not the fastest routes, but they represent former routings of US-101 (and CA-82 is called El Camino Real, after all).
If we wanted to do some real digging and get off the state highways we could come up with an even closer approximation.

I know there's one El Camino Real Bell on Main Street in Los Gatos (historical CA-17) which would correspond to this more "correct" routing. I wonder if there are others not along the "official" route?

[edited 'cause I left off San Juan Bautista]
« Last Edit: November 03, 2017, 01:09:25 AM by DTComposer »
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Dougtone

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Re: The Real story on El Camino Real
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2017, 09:00:07 PM »

Oddly enough, I wrote a blog post about the El Camino Real bell at the Old Mission Santa Barbara this evening.

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2017/11/el-camino-real-relics-in-santa-barbara.html

sparker

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Re: The Real story on El Camino Real
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2017, 09:16:41 PM »

Here's an approximation of current state routes (with a couple of exceptions) that get you within spitting distance of the missions, plus the four presidios and two pueblos:

-Start at Presidio Real de San Diego
-I-8 east to San Diego de Acalá
-I-8 west; I-805 north; I-5 north; CA-76 east to San Luis Rey
-I-5 north to San Juan Capistrano
-I-5 north; (former) CA-72 north; CA-19 north; I-10 west to Mission San Gabriel Arcángel
-I-10 west; US-101 north to Pueblo de Los Angeles
-US-101 north; CA-170 north; I-5 north to San Fernando Rey de España
-CA-118 west; CA-126 west; US-101 north to San Buenaventura
-US-101 north to Santa Barbara and El Presidio Real de Santa Barbara
-US-101 north; CA-154 north; CA-246 west to Santa Inés
-CA-246 west to La Purísima Concepción
-CA-1 north; CA-135 north; US-101 north to San Luis Obispo de Tolosa
-US-101 north to San Miguel Arcángel
-US-101 north; County Route G-18 north; County Route G-14 north to San Antonio de Padua
-County Route G-14 north; US-101 north to Nuestra Señora de la Soledad
-US-101 north; CA-68 west to San Carlos Borromeo de Carmelo and Presidio Real de San Carlos de Monterey
-CA-1 north to Santa Cruz
-CA-17 north; I-880 north to Pueblo de San José de Guadalupe
(east split)
-I-880 north; CA-262 east; I-680 north; CA-238 north to San José
(west split)
-CA-82 north to Santa Clara de Asís
-CA-82 north; I-280 north; US-101 north to San Francisco de Asís and El Presidio Real de San Francisco
-US-101 north to San Rafael Arcángel
-US-101 north; CA-37 east; CA-121 north; CA-12 west to San Francisco Solano and El Presidio de Sonoma

I used CA-72 and CA-82 even though they're not the fastest routes, but they represent former routings of US-101 (and CA-82 is called El Camino Real, after all).
If we wanted to do some real digging and get off the state highways we could come up with an even closer approximation.

I know there's one El Camino Real Bell on Main Street in Los Gatos (historical CA-17) which would correspond to this more "correct" routing. I wonder if there are others not along the "official" route?

Oops -- looks like you missed the San Juan Bautista mission, right at the north/east US 101/CA 156 interchange.  That's where I got married to my 2nd wife back in 1982 (her idea!).  Small as missions go, but if you're on 101, you can hardly miss it.  Also:  Mission San Jose de Guadalupe is actually south of I-680 on Mission Blvd. (former CA 238, which now ends at the interchange about 3/4 mile north of the mission).

That would likely detour your mission-connecting route as follows: from Carmel, follow 1 north to 156, 156 east (partially mpxed with 101) to San Juan Bautista, then north one exit on 101 to 129, 129 back to 1 in Watsonville, then onward to Santa Cruz.     
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 09:19:44 PM by sparker »
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: The Real story on El Camino Real
« Reply #5 on: November 02, 2017, 09:30:20 PM »

Oddly enough, I wrote a blog post about the El Camino Real bell at the Old Mission Santa Barbara this evening.

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2017/11/el-camino-real-relics-in-santa-barbara.html

Ironic, I was going to work up for Mission San Juan Bautista possibly as early as tomorrow.  Kind of fitting given how the theme of this thread is going:

https://flic.kr/s/aHskU6oeuW

Incidentally in reference to what was discussed above regarding non-state highway alignments of the El Camino Real, I'm up for maybe doing some side research.  I kind of started with Monterey County already during that whole San Juan/Old US 101 deal last month.

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DTComposer

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Re: The Real story on El Camino Real
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2017, 01:05:34 AM »

(all my blathering)

Oops -- looks like you missed the San Juan Bautista mission, right at the north/east US 101/CA 156 interchange.  That's where I got married to my 2nd wife back in 1982 (her idea!).  Small as missions go, but if you're on 101, you can hardly miss it.  Also:  Mission San Jose de Guadalupe is actually south of I-680 on Mission Blvd. (former CA 238, which now ends at the interchange about 3/4 mile north of the mission).

That would likely detour your mission-connecting route as follows: from Carmel, follow 1 north to 156, 156 east (partially mpxed with 101) to San Juan Bautista, then north one exit on 101 to 129, 129 back to 1 in Watsonville, then onward to Santa Cruz.     

$*&@^#!!!! It figures - and that's the first mission I ever visited (elementary school field trip). That's what I get for trying to figure all that out while on the train and still answering work e-mails. I'll correct the original post. Thanks for catching!
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: The Real story on El Camino Real
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2017, 11:04:04 AM »

Finally got around to that road blog on Mission San Juan Bautista:

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2017/01/mission-san-juan-bautista-and-el-camino.html

It seems that the dirt trench (San Andreas Fault) behind the mission is the original path of the El Camino Real.
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Desert Man

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Re: The Real story on El Camino Real
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2017, 09:26:35 AM »

The El Camino Real was where the majority of CA's population (then as a Spanish-Mexican colony-province-state) was in 1848-50. The CA gold rush made the newly arrived Anglo-American population shifted the population to become centered in Nor Cal - esp the SF Bay area, until the 20th century as more people from across the nation and around the world arrived in So Cal centered in LA & the basin surrounding the growing major city. I been on that road a few times on visits to San Fernando valley-LA, Ventura and Santa Barbara (So Cal), as well to Paso Robles, Salinas and San Jose (Nor Cal). 
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Get your kicks...on Route 99! Like to turn 66 upside down. The other historic Main street of America.

mrsman

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Re: The Real story on El Camino Real
« Reply #9 on: November 12, 2017, 08:56:54 AM »

Here's an approximation of current state routes (with a couple of exceptions) that get you within spitting distance of the missions, plus the four presidios and two pueblos:

-Start at Presidio Real de San Diego
-I-8 east to San Diego de Acalá
-I-8 west; I-805 north; I-5 north; CA-76 east to San Luis Rey
-I-5 north to San Juan Capistrano
-I-5 north; (former) CA-72 north; CA-19 north; I-10 west to Mission San Gabriel Arcángel
-I-10 west; US-101 north to Pueblo de Los Angeles
-US-101 north; CA-170 north; I-5 north to San Fernando Rey de España
-CA-118 west; CA-126 west; US-101 north to San Buenaventura
-US-101 north to Santa Barbara and El Presidio Real de Santa Barbara
-US-101 north; CA-154 north; CA-246 west to Santa Inés
-CA-246 west to La Purísima Concepción
-CA-1 north; CA-135 north; US-101 north to San Luis Obispo de Tolosa
-US-101 north to San Miguel Arcángel
-US-101 north; County Route G-18 north; County Route G-14 north to San Antonio de Padua
-County Route G-14 north; US-101 north to Nuestra Señora de la Soledad
-US-101 north; CA-68 west to San Carlos Borromeo de Carmelo and Presidio Real de San Carlos de Monterey
-CA-1 north; CA-156 north; US-101 north; CA-156 north (east) to San Juan Bautista
-US-101 north; CA-129 west; CA-1 north to Santa Cruz
-CA-17 north; I-880 north to Pueblo de San José de Guadalupe
(east split)
-I-880 north; CA-262 east; I-680 north to San José
(west split)
-CA-82 north to Santa Clara de Asís
-CA-82 north; I-280 north; US-101 north to San Francisco de Asís and El Presidio Real de San Francisco
-US-101 north to San Rafael Arcángel
-US-101 north; CA-37 east; CA-121 north; CA-12 west to San Francisco Solano and El Presidio de Sonoma

I used CA-72 and CA-82 even though they're not the fastest routes, but they represent former routings of US-101 (and CA-82 is called El Camino Real, after all).
If we wanted to do some real digging and get off the state highways we could come up with an even closer approximation.

I know there's one El Camino Real Bell on Main Street in Los Gatos (historical CA-17) which would correspond to this more "correct" routing. I wonder if there are others not along the "official" route?

[edited 'cause I left off San Juan Bautista]

Great list.  Although for us roadgeeks, we wouldn't mind getting more specific early routings than just following the modern roads.  Many of the roads are well-known.  So if people know about routings that are older than the freeways for any segment of ECR, please share.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: The Real story on El Camino Real
« Reply #10 on: November 12, 2017, 11:23:18 PM »

Checked out Mission Santa Cruz this morning after taking CA 1 out of San Francisco:

https://www.flickr.com/gp/151828809@N08/4u3653

Revisited Mission San Juan Bautista on the way home since it was open.  I went down into the San Andreas Fault to see the original dirt pathway of the El Camino Real below the mission:

https://flic.kr/s/aHskrp1E3h
« Last Edit: November 12, 2017, 11:29:20 PM by Max Rockatansky »
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sparker

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Re: The Real story on El Camino Real
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2017, 02:18:42 AM »

Checked out Mission Santa Cruz this morning after taking CA 1 out of San Francisco:

https://www.flickr.com/gp/151828809@N08/4u3653

Revisited Mission San Juan Bautista on the way home since it was open.  I went down into the San Andreas Fault to see the original dirt pathway of the El Camino Real below the mission:

https://flic.kr/s/aHskrp1E3h

Back in May 1982 I married my second wife in the chapel you show on pix #36/37; a lot more people in your picture than were at the wedding (both of us being "only children", both sets of parents + maybe a total of 15 friends).   Haven't been back to the mission since; driven past it countless times.  However, there are no pictures of the kitchen table where we signed our divorce papers 12 years later!

If you want to see more dramatic iterations of the San Andreas Fault, hike a few hundred yards west of where CA 33 and 166 cross the Temblor Range SW of Maricopa -- you'll see deep cracks in the ground and jagged bluffs that have partially crumbled -- a lot of it due to the huge 1857 quake that was centered near Tejon Pass.  I hiked in that area back in the late '70's; couldn't really repeat that activity today (bad knee!).  But that general area shows more of the effects of the fault than any other save Parkfield or parts of the Carrizo Plain.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: The Real story on El Camino Real
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2017, 08:29:52 AM »

Checked out Mission Santa Cruz this morning after taking CA 1 out of San Francisco:

https://www.flickr.com/gp/151828809@N08/4u3653

Revisited Mission San Juan Bautista on the way home since it was open.  I went down into the San Andreas Fault to see the original dirt pathway of the El Camino Real below the mission:

https://flic.kr/s/aHskrp1E3h

Back in May 1982 I married my second wife in the chapel you show on pix #36/37; a lot more people in your picture than were at the wedding (both of us being "only children", both sets of parents + maybe a total of 15 friends).   Haven't been back to the mission since; driven past it countless times.  However, there are no pictures of the kitchen table where we signed our divorce papers 12 years later!

If you want to see more dramatic iterations of the San Andreas Fault, hike a few hundred yards west of where CA 33 and 166 cross the Temblor Range SW of Maricopa -- you'll see deep cracks in the ground and jagged bluffs that have partially crumbled -- a lot of it due to the huge 1857 quake that was centered near Tejon Pass.  I hiked in that area back in the late '70's; couldn't really repeat that activity today (bad knee!).  But that general area shows more of the effects of the fault than any other save Parkfield or parts of the Carrizo Plain.

I wasn't even really sure if I was supposed to take pictures of the building interior or not.  I just walked by the doorway and took them center shot.  I did the same thing at the Alamo in San Antonio back in 2013 before I saw a sign that wasn't supposed to take photos...oops.

Most of the time you wouldn't really even know you were on the Fault unless you had a map or had previous knowledge it was there.  Peach Tree Valley is pretty obvious from high above as the fault but you really wouldn't notice it much at ground level.  You can definitely tell something is up on Dillon Road north of Palm Springs but probably wouldn't be casually obvious to most folks that it is a fault line. 

Edit:

Put together a road blog on the latest trip to Mission San Juan Bautista.

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2017/11/november-bay-area-trip-part-8-return-to.html
« Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 06:38:19 PM by Max Rockatansky »
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