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Author Topic: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam  (Read 7786 times)

Max Rockatansky

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I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« on: January 20, 2018, 07:58:56 PM »

I took a drive out to Boulder City today to check out the newly minted I-11 segment, the ongoing I-11 Boulder City Bypass, NV 172, and Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam.  I'll work up something on a road blog later this week but the photos can be found here

https://flic.kr/s/aHskrPdXiv

So basically I-11 is semi-constructed through Railroad Pass.   The southbound lanes are finished but you are forced on what will be the US 93 Business Route.  The new I-11 construction can be seen to the south from US 93 BR up to the junction with US 95.  The northbound lanes still start after the Railroad Pass Casino, I think that I managed to capture all the current I-11 shields.

Despite the Federal shutdown Hoover Dam was still open.  I-11 can be seen being built over the mountains to a new junction with NV 172 (wasn't the Hoover Dam Casino the Hacienda?).  For whatever reason NV 172 is still solidly signed along old US 93 to the security checkpoint at the Hoover Dam.  There is still plenty of old US 93 signage still on the Hoover Dam along with at least one mileage marker on the Arizona side.

Edit:  Figured that I would link this over since pretty much everyone would want to see the field level I-11 shield.

IMG_1653 by Max Rockatansky, on Flickr
« Last Edit: January 21, 2018, 03:45:36 AM by Max Rockatansky »
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roadfro

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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2018, 12:21:58 PM »

So basically I-11 is semi-constructed through Railroad Pass.   The southbound lanes are finished but you are forced on what will be the US 93 Business Route.  The new I-11 construction can be seen to the south from US 93 BR up to the junction with US 95.  The northbound lanes still start after the Railroad Pass Casino, I think that I managed to capture all the current I-11 shields.

The last time I went through there (September or October 2017), the southbound lanes were complete and they were working on the new northbound lanes. According to an article posted in the Boulder City Bypass thread, northbound lanes will open "between Silverline Road and Foothill Dr" on Feb 1. With that description, it means drivers heading north on US 95 should be able to get on I-11 northbound at the new interchange.

That same article notes the following: (1) the I-11 Railroad Pass Casino Road interchange should open March 1st, and (2) Southbound traffic headed for US 95 should be able to use the new southbound lanes by March 13th.  It leaves me wondering if Northbound US 93 traffic might be shifted from the old alignment to the new business route alignment now, or if that's coming later (now would make more sense, as it would allow crews to finish rebuilding the road in front of Railroad Pass Casino.)

Quote
Despite the Federal shutdown Hoover Dam was still open.  I-11 can be seen being built over the mountains to a new junction with NV 172 (wasn't the Hoover Dam Casino the Hacienda?).  For whatever reason NV 172 is still solidly signed along old US 93 to the security checkpoint at the Hoover Dam.  There is still plenty of old US 93 signage still on the Hoover Dam along with at least one mileage marker on the Arizona side.

Yes, the Hoover Dam Lodge was previously known as the Hacienda. The name changed a couple years ago.

The SR 172 designation was created upon opening of the Hoover Dam Bypass, and it represents what was the state-maintained section of old US 93 accessing Hoover Dam. As mentioned, SR 172 is signed down to the security checkpoint, where it ends–so notably, the portion of former US 93 between the checkpoint and the dam was not maintained by NDOT, but by the feds.

Quote


Interesting that they've replaced the northbound I-515 shield with an I-11 shield, since at this point the freeway ahead is still recognized as I-515... The southbound one (posted directly opposite this one) does make sense, as that is heading onto the new I-11 lanes.
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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2018, 05:04:42 PM »

Wow -- NDOT or their sign sub sure smashed those 1's together on the I-11 reassurance shield.  I wonder if that's going to be standard practice for the corridor's signage in NV. 
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US 89

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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2018, 05:51:04 PM »

Also, why is the Travel Time to 215/Tropicana/15 sign against a blue background? I'd think green would be more appropriate.

DJStephens

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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2018, 08:40:52 PM »

Blue usually refers to a rest area, or hospital notification. 
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2018, 12:03:21 AM »

Wow -- NDOT or their sign sub sure smashed those 1's together on the I-11 reassurance shield.  I wonder if that's going to be standard practice for the corridor's signage in NV.

I guess we'll find out when the new section opens up here in the next couple months.

Also, why is the Travel Time to 215/Tropicana/15 sign against a blue background? I'd think green would be more appropriate.

I'm fairly certain those have always been blue since they have been put up, no idea why they wouldn't be green.
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gonealookin

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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2018, 12:12:58 AM »

I'm sorry to see that one of those lame, plain blue-on-white "Welcome to Nevada" signs is still in place down there.  NDOT is supposed to be replacing all those with the new designs.  That one is on a very prominent entrance to the state so it would be nice if it got some priority...but then it's a relatively new sign so maybe it's at the end of the list.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2018, 12:13:53 AM »

So basically I-11 is semi-constructed through Railroad Pass.   The southbound lanes are finished but you are forced on what will be the US 93 Business Route.  The new I-11 construction can be seen to the south from US 93 BR up to the junction with US 95.  The northbound lanes still start after the Railroad Pass Casino, I think that I managed to capture all the current I-11 shields.

The last time I went through there (September or October 2017), the southbound lanes were complete and they were working on the new northbound lanes. According to an article posted in the Boulder City Bypass thread, northbound lanes will open "between Silverline Road and Foothill Dr" on Feb 1. With that description, it means drivers heading north on US 95 should be able to get on I-11 northbound at the new interchange.

That same article notes the following: (1) the I-11 Railroad Pass Casino Road interchange should open March 1st, and (2) Southbound traffic headed for US 95 should be able to use the new southbound lanes by March 13th.  It leaves me wondering if Northbound US 93 traffic might be shifted from the old alignment to the new business route alignment now, or if that's coming later (now would make more sense, as it would allow crews to finish rebuilding the road in front of Railroad Pass Casino.)

Quote
Despite the Federal shutdown Hoover Dam was still open.  I-11 can be seen being built over the mountains to a new junction with NV 172 (wasn't the Hoover Dam Casino the Hacienda?).  For whatever reason NV 172 is still solidly signed along old US 93 to the security checkpoint at the Hoover Dam.  There is still plenty of old US 93 signage still on the Hoover Dam along with at least one mileage marker on the Arizona side.

Yes, the Hoover Dam Lodge was previously known as the Hacienda. The name changed a couple years ago.

The SR 172 designation was created upon opening of the Hoover Dam Bypass, and it represents what was the state-maintained section of old US 93 accessing Hoover Dam. As mentioned, SR 172 is signed down to the security checkpoint, where it ends–so notably, the portion of former US 93 between the checkpoint and the dam was not maintained by NDOT, but by the feds.

Quote


Interesting that they've replaced the northbound I-515 shield with an I-11 shield, since at this point the freeway ahead is still recognized as I-515... The southbound one (posted directly opposite this one) does make sense, as that is heading onto the new I-11 lanes.

I didn't capture it but it looked like the new northbound lanes were close to being complete.  Traffic from US 93 appears to be oriented towards the new Business alignment but takes a sudden turn towards the old road over Railroad Pass.  I'm not exactly sure why the I-11 shield was so far north given the speculative alignment towards downtown...although I-515 seems completely logical.

In regards to the Hacienda, I had completely forgotten it was called the Gold Strike before it burned down.  Weird to see a new name on the structure after so many years of driving by it.  Either way it was kind of neat to see the new alignment of I-11 coming down out of the hills to meet NV 172, kind of exciting to finally seeing things actually happening after so much talk and no action.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2018, 12:15:11 AM »

I'm sorry to see that one of those lame, plain blue-on-white "Welcome to Nevada" signs is still in place down there.  NDOT is supposed to be replacing all those with the new designs.  That one is on a very prominent entrance to the state so it would be nice if it got some priority...but then it's a relatively new sign so maybe it's at the end of the list.

Isn't the new design a miner guy sitting down?  There was a "Welcome to Nevada" sign like that on old US 93 at the top of the Hoover Dam near the overlook parking lot which I didn't capture in my pictures.

Edit:  Which apparently was there in 2011 and may be a leftover from when US 93 was on the Dam:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.0162946,-114.7449537,3a,15y,290.73h,88.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSjL0Gxg8eK2gqElhmhJ5aQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 12:17:47 AM by Max Rockatansky »
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gonealookin

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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2018, 12:26:31 AM »

I'm sorry to see that one of those lame, plain blue-on-white "Welcome to Nevada" signs is still in place down there.  NDOT is supposed to be replacing all those with the new designs.  That one is on a very prominent entrance to the state so it would be nice if it got some priority...but then it's a relatively new sign so maybe it's at the end of the list.

Isn't the new design a miner guy sitting down?  There was a "Welcome to Nevada" sign like that on old US 93 at the top of the Hoover Dam near the overlook parking lot which I didn't capture in my pictures.

Edit:  Which apparently was there in 2011 and may be a leftover from when US 93 was on the Dam:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.0162946,-114.7449537,3a,15y,290.73h,88.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSjL0Gxg8eK2gqElhmhJ5aQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

That was the "Prospector", which was a nice design, but he's also being phased out.  The new ones I've seen are of this design, and there are supposed to be some alternate designs as well.

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Max Rockatansky

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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2018, 12:29:56 AM »

I'm sorry to see that one of those lame, plain blue-on-white "Welcome to Nevada" signs is still in place down there.  NDOT is supposed to be replacing all those with the new designs.  That one is on a very prominent entrance to the state so it would be nice if it got some priority...but then it's a relatively new sign so maybe it's at the end of the list.

Isn't the new design a miner guy sitting down?  There was a "Welcome to Nevada" sign like that on old US 93 at the top of the Hoover Dam near the overlook parking lot which I didn't capture in my pictures.

Edit:  Which apparently was there in 2011 and may be a leftover from when US 93 was on the Dam:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.0162946,-114.7449537,3a,15y,290.73h,88.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSjL0Gxg8eK2gqElhmhJ5aQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

That was the "Prospector", which was a nice design, but he's also being phased out.  The new ones I've seen are of this design, and there are supposed to be some alternate designs as well.



Hell...now I really regret not being heads up with the camera, at least I got the older worn out one on the Arizona side of the dam.  Weren't a lot of those around the Carson City and Reno Area already replaced?  I seem to vaguely remember talk about the subject last year with "Welcome to Nevada" signs getting a new design. 
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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2018, 02:57:01 AM »

Wow -- NDOT or their sign sub sure smashed those 1's together on the I-11 reassurance shield.  I wonder if that's going to be standard practice for the corridor's signage in NV.

I don't think those 1's are smashed together but rather I'm thinking that's what an I-11 shield is supposed to look like...


This is an FHWA-spec Interstate 11 shield (36x36 w/18" numerals) with no modifications made to the inter-character spacing.  The font I used for the route numerals is T2000DOTHWYD.
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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2018, 10:07:58 AM »

Also, why is the Travel Time to 215/Tropicana/15 sign against a blue background? I'd think green would be more appropriate.

I'm fairly certain those have always been blue since they have been put up, no idea why they wouldn't be green.

I thought that too at first. However, travel time is not quite a guidance and is more of a motorist service/information, so the blue color is also justified. MUTCD doesn't really have any mention one way or the other, so some agencies have used green and some have used blue.

Isn't the new design a miner guy sitting down?  There was a "Welcome to Nevada" sign like that on old US 93 at the top of the Hoover Dam near the overlook parking lot which I didn't capture in my pictures.

Edit:  Which apparently was there in 2011 and may be a leftover from when US 93 was on the Dam:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.0162946,-114.7449537,3a,15y,290.73h,88.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSjL0Gxg8eK2gqElhmhJ5aQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

That was the "Prospector", which was a nice design, but he's also being phased out.  The new ones I've seen are of this design, and there are supposed to be some alternate designs as well.

The "Prospector" welcome design was actually quite old. It was introduced along with a similar, now rarely seen, license plate design to celebrate Nevada's 125th anniversary of statehood in 1989. (My family had one of those plates on our 1990 Camry. It was only produced for about two years, and is one of the few plate designs that is not included in the new rolling reissue plate program.) The prospector sign was put up on many of the more traveled state line crossings, but less busy crossings and replacements tend to use the blue on white sign (or sometimes the colors are reversed).
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2018, 01:57:24 PM »

Also, why is the Travel Time to 215/Tropicana/15 sign against a blue background? I'd think green would be more appropriate.

I'm fairly certain those have always been blue since they have been put up, no idea why they wouldn't be green.

I thought that too at first. However, travel time is not quite a guidance and is more of a motorist service/information, so the blue color is also justified. MUTCD doesn't really have any mention one way or the other, so some agencies have used green and some have used blue.

Isn't the new design a miner guy sitting down?  There was a "Welcome to Nevada" sign like that on old US 93 at the top of the Hoover Dam near the overlook parking lot which I didn't capture in my pictures.

Edit:  Which apparently was there in 2011 and may be a leftover from when US 93 was on the Dam:

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.0162946,-114.7449537,3a,15y,290.73h,88.55t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sSjL0Gxg8eK2gqElhmhJ5aQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

That was the "Prospector", which was a nice design, but he's also being phased out.  The new ones I've seen are of this design, and there are supposed to be some alternate designs as well.

The "Prospector" welcome design was actually quite old. It was introduced along with a similar, now rarely seen, license plate design to celebrate Nevada's 125th anniversary of statehood in 1989. (My family had one of those plates on our 1990 Camry. It was only produced for about two years, and is one of the few plate designs that is not included in the new rolling reissue plate program.) The prospector sign was put up on many of the more traveled state line crossings, but less busy crossings and replacements tend to use the blue on white sign (or sometimes the colors are reversed).

Kind of weird that the Bureau of Reclamation essentially kept old US 93 over the Hoover Dam intact even with the older signage.  I always like the prospector design but I had no idea what the vintage was.

Speaking of those travel time signs, when were those put in?  I was looking at my older pictures of I-515 and I can't find them when I was working in the area.
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roadfro

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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2018, 09:29:29 AM »

Speaking of those travel time signs, when were those put in?  I was looking at my older pictures of I-515 and I can't find them when I was working in the area.

The first use of travel time information in Las Vegas was (and still is) displayed on overhead VMSs along US 95 and I-15. The first separate travel time signs in the Vegas area were installed along I-215 (since there are no VMSs along the 215) circa 2012. Not sure when these ones on I-515 south of 215 were installed, but likely not too long after.
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2018, 09:31:44 AM »

Speaking of those travel time signs, when were those put in?  I was looking at my older pictures of I-515 and I can't find them when I was working in the area.

The first use of travel time information in Las Vegas was (and still is) displayed on overhead VMSs along US 95 and I-15. The first separate travel time signs in the Vegas area were installed along I-215 (since there are no VMSs along the 215) circa 2012. Not sure when these ones on I-515 south of 215 were installed, but likely not too long after.

That would certainly explain why I didn’t ever notice them.  I was in the area for work out of Phoenix until 2012. 
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Max Rockatansky

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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2018, 08:38:26 PM »

Finally worked up my road blog on Sure Why Not Now:

http://surewhynotnow.blogspot.com/2018/01/2018-mojave-desert-road-trip-part-7-i.html

I didn't go into a huge amount of project detail on I-11 since that's been done to death but I did provide a study link in addition to my own observations on the current construction.  I did do a deep dive on the history of US 466 and US 93 on the Hoover Dam along with a ton of map links in addition to references. 
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roadfro

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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2018, 11:13:44 AM »

^ Nice blog.

I have one nitpick on your write-up: You consistently referred to the new Hoover Dam bridge as the "Pat Tillman Bridge" when it is officially the "Mike O'Callahghan — Pat Tillman Memorial Bridge". (It probably bugged me cause I'm a Nevadan, and you left off the person from Nevada every time...)
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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2018, 12:50:25 PM »

^ Nice blog.

I have one nitpick on your write-up: You consistently referred to the new Hoover Dam bridge as the "Pat Tillman Bridge" when it is officially the "Mike O'Callahghan — Pat Tillman Memorial Bridge". (It probably bugged me cause I'm a Nevadan, and you left off the person from Nevada every time...)

I’ll probably go back and add some sort of note for the full bridge name.  The irony is that living in Arizona for as long as I did we always called it by Pat Tillman’s name short handed.  Generally I toss out the full name of a structure or high and then refer to it either by an abbreviation or nickname. 
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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2018, 04:22:32 PM »

I'm definitively in the camp that thinks the 1's look better with a bit more space between them.

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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #20 on: January 27, 2018, 08:04:34 PM »

I'm definitively in the camp that thinks the 1's look better with a bit more space between them.


How come nobody notices that US 11 has the same squished font or even something like US 41?  The "1" looks awful in general in FHWA font IMO.
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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2018, 01:50:21 AM »

I'm definitively in the camp that thinks the 1's look better with a bit more space between them.


How come nobody notices that US 11 has the same squished font or even something like US 41?  The "1" looks awful in general in FHWA font IMO.

Because that's what is specified by the FHWA.  According to the FHWA's Standard Alphabets for Traffic Control Devices (https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/SHSe/Alphabets.pdf), there is a spacing chart for each character in the FHWA series of typefaces.  The easiest way to explain this is to think of each letter being on a tile with space to the left and right of the letter.  To build a word (or route number in this case), you'd place tiles next to one another.

In the case of the Series D numeral "1", the tile is only 1.88 inches wide (0.4" left, 1" character, 0.48" right) for a 4" letter height.  When you put two numeral 1 "tiles" side-by-side you get this...



...and when you put it on an Interstate shield it'll look like this...

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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2018, 02:56:12 AM »

While the FHWA spacing rule may be valid; double 1's are indeed an anomaly when it comes to placement and kerning.  Any other number between 10 and 19 will require considerably more horizontal space than 11, which would result in the integer "1" on the left being pushed leftward to accommodate the wider second number.  Placing the right-hand integer "1" at the position a wider number would be (in a similar fashion to the "11" seen on the trailblazer shields at the US 95 interchange) but the same distance from the outer edge of the shield would seem to be a bit better -- particularly as the number is easier to read at speed with a bit wider kerning.  In any case, I doubt FHWA would come knocking and telling NDOT to replace the wider-kerned shields with those that follow the literal rule. 
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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2018, 01:37:19 PM »

Because that's what is specified by the FHWA.  According to the FHWA's Standard Alphabets for Traffic Control Devices (https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/SHSe/Alphabets.pdf), there is a spacing chart for each character in the FHWA series of typefaces.  The easiest way to explain this is to think of each letter being on a tile with space to the left and right of the letter.  To build a word (or route number in this case), you'd place tiles next to one another.

In the case of the Series D numeral "1", the tile is only 1.88 inches wide (0.4" left, 1" character, 0.48" right) for a 4" letter height.  When you put two numeral 1 "tiles" side-by-side you get this...

I also wonder if there's something else going on, too. Given how common lining figures are in the most common fonts people read, where each figure takes up the same amount of horizontal space no matter how wide the actual character is (to allow columns of numbers to line up easily), I wonder if people are used to having more space around "1"s than was common back when the FHWA fonts were designed.
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Interstates clinched: 4, 57, 275 (IN-KY-OH), 465 (IN), 640 (TN), 985
State Interstates clinched: I-26 (TN), I-75 (GA), I-75 (KY), I-75 (TN), I-81 (WV), I-95 (NH)

michravera

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Re: I-11/NV 172/Old US 93 over the Hoover Dam
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2018, 03:24:48 PM »

I'm definitively in the camp that thinks the 1's look better with a bit more space between them.


How come nobody notices that US 11 has the same squished font or even something like US 41?  The "1" looks awful in general in FHWA font IMO.

Because that's what is specified by the FHWA.  According to the FHWA's Standard Alphabets for Traffic Control Devices (https://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/SHSe/Alphabets.pdf), there is a spacing chart for each character in the FHWA series of typefaces.  The easiest way to explain this is to think of each letter being on a tile with space to the left and right of the letter.  To build a word (or route number in this case), you'd place tiles next to one another.

In the case of the Series D numeral "1", the tile is only 1.88 inches wide (0.4" left, 1" character, 0.48" right) for a 4" letter height.  When you put two numeral 1 "tiles" side-by-side you get this...



...and when you put it on an Interstate shield it'll look like this...



I want to see it as I-11 using dice pips!
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