Extending I-45 to Oklahoma?

[txstateends]

A freeway upgrade to US-69 is planned for the town of Calera, possibly in response to growth related to the Choctaw Casino resort nearby. Unfortunately the plan I saw for the upgrade didn't include a new exit to remove the traffic light at Hollis Roberts Road at the main entrance to the casino. But there is plenty of room to remove that at-grade intersection and build slip ramps to frontage roads. That intersection really needs to be a freeway exit due the traffic load. There's an incredible amount of truck traffic on that route. And there's a lot of traffic visiting that casino. It's not quite as busy as WinStar on I-35 (the largest casino in the US), but it's a big casino nonetheless.

The other at-grade intersections between Colbert and Calera can be removed relatively easily since a bunch of properties along US-69 are behind partial frontage roads.

ROW acquisition and Utility relocation is scheduled on the 8 Year Plan for the stretch south from Calera to near the Red River

I wonder if that will take all 8 years, or just part of that time.  Either way, can't happen soon enough.

[rte66man]

A freeway upgrade to US-69 is planned for the town of Calera, possibly in response to growth related to the Choctaw Casino resort nearby. Unfortunately the plan I saw for the upgrade didn't include a new exit to remove the traffic light at Hollis Roberts Road at the main entrance to the casino. But there is plenty of room to remove that at-grade intersection and build slip ramps to frontage roads. That intersection really needs to be a freeway exit due the traffic load. There's an incredible amount of truck traffic on that route. And there's a lot of traffic visiting that casino. It's not quite as busy as WinStar on I-35 (the largest casino in the US), but it's a big casino nonetheless.

The other at-grade intersections between Colbert and Calera can be removed relatively easily since a bunch of properties along US-69 are behind partial frontage roads.

ROW acquisition and Utility relocation is scheduled on the 8 Year Plan for the stretch south from Calera to near the Red River

I wonder if that will take all 8 years, or just part of that time.  Either way, can't happen soon enough.

It is scheduled for FFY 2026.  If miracles happen and extra funds become available, it could be moved up.

[bugo]

I find Tulsa is a much nicer city than OKC. A large part of OKC is a slum.

"...a large part of OKC is a slum..." What?  Having lived for decades in each city I can say with certainty that OKC is no more and no less a slum than is Tulsa. Cite some specific examples and show how they constitute "a large part".

That's at least how it appeared to me. I stopped to get gas off I-240 and every gas station that I saw had bars on the windows. You only see bars on windows in Tulsa in the very worst parts of town if you ever see them.

[Bobby5280]

I-240 runs through one of the, uh "lesser booming" areas of metro Oklahoma City. Drive a little way South into Moore and things get much nicer. Same goes for Norman. I like downtown Oklahoma City and a number of neighborhoods North of downtown. There's a lot of development taking place there. A bunch of the growth taking place in OKC is happening on the North and West ends of the metro. And that's along with the growth in Norman and Moore.

Really, the OKC metro area is the only place in the state that is adding population at a significant rate. Many other parts of the state are losing population. Here in Lawton our city limits population had its recent peak around 2012 with 98,000 people. The last estimate had it down to 93,000. The small towns and rural areas are losing young adults to the big cities like crazy. Some move to places like OKC (and Tulsa). Plenty of others are moving off to Texas. That seems to be where many of our city's losses are going.

[bugo]

Of course there are nice parts of OKC. The bad areas are just more prominent. North Tulsa is kind of rough, east Tulsa is fairly rough and there's the little mini hood at 61st and Peoria. I don't feel unsafe anywhere in Tulsa. I drive through the 61st and Peoria intersection all the the time at all hours of the day and night and I haven't had any problems. On the other hand, I lived in Kansas City for 2 years and the bad parts of KC are way, way worse than north Tulsa.

[kphoger]

Tulsa happens to be the only city where my company has had field technicians get (a) car-jacked and (b) shot.  To be fair, at least the shooting was in a nice neighborhood.  He was caught in the cross-fire of an armed home invasion.

[Bobby5280]

Just a little food for thought how "safe" Tulsa is compared to Oklahoma City.

https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/topic-pages/tables/table-6

Oklahoma City - MSA Pop: 1,385,915 - City: 648,260
Violent Crime Total
MSA: 6907 - City: 5104 - Rate Per 100,000 Residents: 498.4
Murder & Non-Negligent Manslaughter
MSA: 105 - City: 81 - Rate Per 100,000 Residents: 7.6
Rape
MSA: 806 - City: 474 - Rate Per 100,000 Residents: 58.2
Robbery
MSA: 1439 - City: 1120 - Rate Per 100,000 Residents: 103.8
Aggravated Assault
MSA: 4557 - City: 3429 - Rate Per 100,000 Residents: 328.8
Property Crime
MSA: 40163 - City: 24326 - Rate Per 100,000 Residents: 2897.9
Burglary
MSA: 9656 - City: 6105 - Rate Per 100,000 Residents: 696.7
Larceny-Theft
MSA: 26316 - City: 15421 - Rate Per 100,000 Residents: 1898.8
Motor Vehicle Theft
MSA: 4191 - City: 2800 - Rate Per 100,000 Residents: 302.4

Tulsa - MSA Pop: 989,910 - City: 404,868
Violent Crime Total
MSA: 5600 - City: 4214 - Rate Per 100,000 Residents: 565.7
Murder & Non-Negligent Manslaughter
MSA: 90 - City: 70 - Rate Per 100,000 Residents: 9.1
Rape
MSA: 655 - City: 423 - Rate Per 100,000 Residents: 66.2
Robbery
MSA: 1098 - City: 964 - Rate Per 100,000 Residents: 110.9
Aggravated Assault
MSA: 3757 - City: 2757 - Rate Per 100,000 Residents: 379.5
Property Crime
MSA: 33968 - City: 22088 - Rate Per 100,000 Residents: 3431.4
Burglary
MSA: 8320 - City: 5574 - Rate Per 100,000 Residents: 840.5
Larceny-Theft
MSA: 20791 - City: 13054 - Rate Per 100,000 Residents: 2100.3
Motor Vehicle Theft
MSA: 4857 - City: 3460 - Rate Per 100,000 Residents: 490.7

At least for 2017 Tulsa rated worse than Oklahoma City in every crime category listed in the FBI UCR.

[In_Correct]

Tulsa happens to be the only city where my company has had field technicians get (a) car-jacked and (b) shot.  To be fair, at least the shooting was in a nice neighborhood.  He was caught in the cross-fire of an armed home invasion.

Crime is possible in nice neighborhoods.

[Rothman]

Tulsa happens to be the only city where my company has had field technicians get (a) car-jacked and (b) shot.  To be fair, at least the shooting was in a nice neighborhood.  He was caught in the cross-fire of an armed home invasion.

Crime is possible in nice neighborhoods.

Tulsa also had what were probably the worst race riots in American history.

[kphoger]

Tulsa happens to be the only city where my company has had field technicians get (a) car-jacked and (b) shot.  To be fair, at least the shooting was in a nice neighborhood.  He was caught in the cross-fire of an armed home invasion.

Crime is possible in nice neighborhoods.

To be more specific...  A couple had just recently moved into a brand-new house in a nice neighborhood in Tulsa.  The house was practically empty, as they hadn't moved much of anything in yet.  Our field tech was there to install cable services.  It was after dark, and the house was all lit up on the inside.  Several robbers busted in through the door with MAC-10s, apparently unaware that there wasn't anything in the house to steal yet.  The homeowner shoved our field tech into the half-bathroom to get him out of the way, but our tech still took a bullet in the arm in the commotion.  (They ended up cancelling the installation and not moving into the house after all.)

Another one of our Tulsa techs later commented that he always felt safer installing cable in the "hood" than in the nicer neighborhoods.  He said, in Tulsa, the cable guy was everyone's hero in the "hood", because everyone around knew there was a good chance they'd be invited over soon to watch a game.

[The Ghostbuster]

Were the robbers ever apprehended?

[texaskdog]

I don't understand how so many smaller cities let themselves go.  We love Albuquerque and would probably move there if the crime rate wasn't atrocious.

[Bobby5280]

I don't understand how so many smaller cities let themselves go.

It all comes down to money. It costs money to keep homes, businesses, streets and other elements of infrastructure well maintained. Hell, it even costs money to demolish and clear a vacant, dilapidated building. On top of that the community has to have some that "pride" thing and a drive for contributing to the greater good. Those two elements are lacking in many parts of the nation. Many smaller communities have a shrinking and aging tax base, so they don't have the money to fix things even if they want to do so.

I think our society is becoming increasingly introverted and self-centered. We have a great deal of division in so many areas (income class, race, religion, politics, etc). That makes the effort to get big things done together very difficult. That's why I believe if things like the Interstate Highway System didn't already exist and we set out to try to build it from scratch today the task would be hopelessly impossible. There may be a lot of displays of flag waving and "patriotism," but I think most of it is all for show. It's not real.

[sparker]

^^^^^^^^^
Many smaller cities -- and even some mid-sized ones -- find themselves strapped for funds, particularly in states that don't provide substantial subsidies to the cities in terms of cash or service arrangements.  But then cities have different priorities -- and often public safety isn't at the head of the list.  My own city, San Jose (pop. just a hair over 1M as of today) deploys only about 950 officers (uniformed and plainclothes) over the whole city, which sprawl about 20 miles corner-to-corner.  It's clear City Hall has different priorities than expanding the PD -- the saving grace is that other entities (VTA transportation, SJSU, and the various nonincorporated areas within the city have other agencies (transit cops, county sheriffs, campus police) that can fill in when needed (considerable administrative overlap between LEA's).  But there is always, in virtually every sizeable city, conflict between enforcement and the ad hoc communities that pre-exist or temporally form when problems arise; simply increasing the number of police officers may not be an effectual way of dealing with those issues that increasingly have become regularized events.  Sometimes it becomes a matter of a PD electing to (a) pursue a policy of strict enforcement of all laws, even in terms of minor infractions, or (b) set a priority list of the worst offenses and concentrate efforts on those -- i.e., the "quality of life" approach versus the "worst of the worst" methodology.  Advocates on both sides, depending upon the official approach to social control.  But currently there's no real answer that is (1) effective and (2) can pass constitutional muster.  So cities that employ one approach tend to get "bad raps" about the other problem.  May be time to go back to the drawing board re enforcement methodologies.

But enough about Tulsa/OKC crime rates and their manifestations.  Since neither city is along the potential I-45 corridor (save a detour over the INT and US 75), it'd be nice to get the thread back on track!  If crime in & around cities needs to be discussed, start a thread in Off-Topic!

[kphoger]

Were the robbers ever apprehended?

No clue.

[texaskdog]

Albuquerque could be a desert oasis.  It's on a major W/E highway, close to the mountains, nice small city with a mountain view, yet its a sh*thole.

[Plutonic Panda]

I like the vibes of Albuquerque. It has some nice areas but it could be much better.

[The Ghostbuster]

Since Interstate 45 does not go through Albuquerque, nor is Albuquerque in Oklahoma or Texas, maybe talk about Albuquerque should go into another thread (the one posted "New Mexico", for instance).

[bugo]

Since Interstate 45 does not go through Albuquerque, nor is Albuquerque in Oklahoma or Texas, maybe talk about Albuquerque should go into another thread (the one posted "New Mexico", for instance).

Okay Mr. Moderator. The actual moderators are bad enough. We don't need any more.

[bwana39]

At some point, this will become I-45. Texas had other plans for the number (From Dallas on TX-114 to US-287 and 287 to Amarillo. The Amarillo route will almost surely take another if it ever gets to that point.  I highly doubt it ever will. My expectation for US-287 is 4 lane divided highway with  grade separation at significant intersections. Probably would be some loops built around the towns, but I digress.....

Texas was / is happy to keep US-75 as US-75. If Oklahoma gets permission to update it to I-45, Texas will follow.

As I have stated elsewhere, even though US-75 is fully controlled access all the way from the end of I-45 (or more technically  I-345). It does not always meet "INTERSTATE STANDARDS". I think at this point that is solely in Grayson County particularly adjacent to downtown Sherman. Texas is a stickler for Interstate Standards. TXDOT is currently upgrading the Grayson County section of US-75 south of US-82. They are also nearly finished with the Collin County upgrades.

[Scott5114]

Oklahoma doesn't really appear to any interest at all in any new Interstate corridors. Transportation focus is on bypasses around towns that need it and replacing obsolete bridges in rural areas and reconstructing outdated interchanges in urban areas.

[Plutonic Panda]

Oklahoma doesn't really appear to any interest at all in any new Interstate corridors. Transportation focus is on bypasses around towns that need it and replacing obsolete bridges in rural areas and reconstructing outdated interchanges in urban areas.

I would argue that is due to the reality OkDOT faces as a result of a horrendously, underfunded agency. That boils down the the states priorities and I'd like to see how OkDOT would fare if funded better.

I made this point in OKCTalk but I seriously wonder what goes through the minds of ODOT and our legislators when they drive on DFW freeways.

[bwana39]

Oklahoma doesn't really appear to any interest at all in any new Interstate corridors. Transportation focus is on bypasses around towns that need it and replacing obsolete bridges in rural areas and reconstructing outdated interchanges in urban areas.

As a rule neither is Texas. This is prudent use of highway funds. A fourlane expressway with grade separation at major intersections is more than enough in most rural areas. Controlled access around cities and town is generally enough.

[texaskdog]

Since Interstate 45 does not go through Albuquerque, nor is Albuquerque in Oklahoma or Texas, maybe talk about Albuquerque should go into another thread (the one posted "New Mexico", for instance).

Sending Walter White over to straighten you out

[US71]

Since Interstate 45 does not go through Albuquerque, nor is Albuquerque in Oklahoma or Texas, maybe talk about Albuquerque should go into another thread (the one posted "New Mexico", for instance).

Don't forget to take a Left at Albuquerque and a Right at LaJolla