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Downtown freeway loops

Started by mrsman, March 11, 2018, 10:42:39 AM

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mrsman

With discussion of Kansas City freeway loop possibly decommissioning the northern leg, I wonder for which cities central business districts (CBD) are completely surrounded by freeways that are close-in.

I can think of the following:

Portland, OR
Los Angeles
Fresno
Phoenix
Kansas City
Tulsa
San Antonio
Dallas
Houston
Columbus, OH
Charlotte
Nashville
Rochester, NY (before they began tearing down parts of the inner loop)

Are there any others?


michravera

Quote from: mrsman on March 11, 2018, 10:42:39 AM
With discussion of Kansas City freeway loop possibly decommissioning the northern leg, I wonder for which cities central business districts (CBD) are completely surrounded by freeways that are close-in.

I can think of the following:

Portland, OR
Los Angeles
Fresno
Phoenix
Kansas City
Tulsa
San Antonio
Dallas
Houston
Columbus, OH
Charlotte
Nashville
Rochester, NY (before they began tearing down parts of the inner loop)

Are there any others?
Sacramento on 3 and a half sides: I-5 to the west, US-50 to the south, and CASR-51 to the east. I-80 completes the north side but it runs well north (like 3 km) of the CBD (which is a perfect grid except of a few parks and monuments and such).

froggie

Technically, Philly does with 76, 95, and 676.

Flint1979

Downtown Detroit has freeways on three sides and a river on the side that doesn't have a freeway.

Ann Arbor, Michigan is completely enclosed by freeways but no freeways are downtown. M-14, US-23 and I-94 all enclose Ann Arbor.

TheStranger

San Jose kinda is set up that way (280 on south side, 87 to the west, 101 a bit to the east) with 880 on the northwest side of this, though 880 and 87 do not have any connecting ramps to each other.

Fresno (99, 180, 41)

Phoenix maybe? (10 and 17)

Portland, Oregon with 405 and 5

Omaha (480, 29, 80)
Chris Sampang

Buck87

Youngstown, OH definitely has a freeway loop, though whether it is "close in" enough to count could be questioned.

Pittsburgh just misses, with I-579 coming a few blocks shy of reaching I-376

sparker

Technically, Anaheim (5/57/91) has a "loop" (actually a triangle) around its CBD -- although the city extends E & W 9 or so miles in either direction from the center.  Likewise, Irvine has a loop (5/55/405/133) as well -- but since it really doesn't have a "downtown" as such, that may not be relevant.  Curiously, the "Irvine Center" shopping district just east of the loop cited above has it's own "mini-loop" consisting of I-5, I-405, and CA 133 -- although one can't circumnavigate that routing as there's no direct access from SB I-5 to NB I-405 and vice-versa.  More of an "enclosure" than a real loop!

Beltway

Quote from: mrsman on March 11, 2018, 10:42:39 AM
Are there any others?

Richmond, VA.  I-95, I-195, VA-195.  While the western leg is well outside of the downtown, these freeways do form a loop around the heart of the city, and have south, east and north legs that are in the downtown (CBD) area.
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ilpt4u

#8
East St Louis, IL/Riverfront St Louis, MO

Can't drive around the loop, due to missing ramps, but I-70, I-55, I-64, and I-44 form one

The actual City of St Louis Freeway Loop involves a canceled, missing Freeway (I-755)

Indy is missing its Downtown Loop because the West St Freeway was canceled

Revive 755

Quote from: ilpt4u on March 11, 2018, 04:00:38 PM
East St Louis, IL/Riverfront St Louis, MO

Does not qualify, since neither downtown St. Louis or downtown East St. Louis are not contained by the loop.

jp the roadgeek

If I-484 had been built as planned, Hartford would have had one with I-84, I-91, and I-484.
Boston would have also had one with the I-695 Inner Belt and I-93.
Providence does with I-95 and RI 10 (both partially paired with US 6).
If the gap in A-440 were closed, Quebec City would with A-40, A-440, and A-740.
Interstates I've clinched: 97, 290 (MA), 291 (CT), 291 (MA), 293, 295 (DE-NJ-PA), 295 (RI-MA), 384, 391, 395 (CT-MA), 395 (MD), 495 (DE), 610 (LA), 684, 691, 695 (MD), 695 (NY), 795 (MD)

Max Rockatansky

Fresno with CA 41, 99, and 180. 

TheStranger

Unconstructed ones in california:

an "East Bypass" was proposed in downtown LA in the mid-1960s (Route 241 at one point) that would have connected today's 110 between the Santa Monica Freeway/I-10 and the Golden State Freeway/I-5.  It was pre-1964 LRN 222 as seen on this map
https://www.cahighways.org/maps/1963routes.jpg

Had the Central and Embarcadero Freeways been fully finished in SF, they would have formed two legs of a loop encircling downtown, with the southeast leg being today's Skyway (I-80).




Chris Sampang

mrcmc888

Knoxville, TN's downtown is boxed on three sides by I-40, US-129 and the James White Parkway.  TN-158 splits off the Parkway and runs along the north side of the Tennessee River...there were some plans to convert it to full freeway but those never came to pass.  Had they gone through with it, Knoxville would be fully boxed in.

Beltway

Unconstructed ones would obviously include the Inner Loop Freeway in Washington, D.C.  Segments of I-95, I-66, I-295 and I-695.  Actually a double loop in a rough figure-8.  Several portions were built on the west, south and center legs, but not enough to form any loop.
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http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

Interstate 69 Fan

465 in Indianapolis

And also, if West Street did become the freeway it was supposed to be (let’s say I-270), I-65, I-70, and I-270 would have encircled Downtown.
Apparently I’m a fan of I-69.  Who knew.

Henry

Cincinnati would certainly qualify, even though OH 562 is a bit further north of downtown.

San Diego also has lots of these in different locations: I-5/CA 15/CA 94; I-5/I-8/CA 163; and I-5/CA 163/I-8/I-805/CA 15/CA 94, to name a few.

Had I-485 and I-675 (nee I-475) been built out, Atlanta would've had one with I-20 and I-75/I-85 completing the loop.
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RobbieL2415

Manchester, NH via Is-93 and 293.

vdeane

Quote from: jp the roadgeek on March 12, 2018, 12:09:11 AM
If the gap in A-440 were closed, Quebec City would with A-40, A-440, and A-740.
I wouldn't count A-440/A-40/A-740 any more than I would count I-190/I-290/I-90 for Buffalo.  Although Buffalo has another unbuilt example with I-190 and the Kensington spurs.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

TheStranger

Quote from: Henry on March 12, 2018, 09:29:18 AM


San Diego also has lots of these in different locations: I-5/CA 15/CA 94; I-5/I-8/CA 163; and I-5/CA 163/I-8/I-805/CA 15/CA 94, to name a few.


I wanted to mention San Diego but I don't know if it counts - downtown is all south and west of I-5 (originally US 101) and I'm not sure any freeway was ever planned within that perimeter.
Chris Sampang

webny99

Is there a criteria for how close to downtown it has to be?

This could determine whether, for example, I-90/I-190/I-290 can count for Buffalo. It does circle downtown, but a lot of other attractions/neighborhoods/etc. are inside the loop in addition to the CBD.

vdeane

If simply circling downtown regardless of distance was enough, every beltway in existence would count.  So would I-10/I-5/I-90/I-95 for almost every US city.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

TXtoNJ

Quote from: vdeane on March 12, 2018, 01:40:26 PM
If simply circling downtown regardless of distance was enough, every beltway in existence would count.  So would I-10/I-5/I-90/I-95 for almost every US city.

Surprisingly, not as many of the major ones as you'd think, if you consider the city center(s) relative to the quadrangle you mentioned:

NYC - No (just)
LA - No (just)
Chicago - No (just)
Washington/Baltimore - Yes
Bay Area - No
Boston - No
DFW - Yes
Philly - Yes
Miami - No
Houston - No (just)
Atlanta - Yes
Detroit - No
Seattle - No (just)
Phoenix - No (just)
Minneapolis - No
Cleveland - No (just)
Denver - Yes
San Diego - No (just)
Portland - No (just)
Orlando - No

Only five of the top 20 PSAs have city centers within the quadrangle, while nine are just outside of it.

vdeane

Well, I wasn't restricting it to major ones, and it was intended more as "let's see how absurd of an example I can think of to make a point" than to be taken seriously.  Plus coastal cities can be impossible depending on how strict you want to be.  That said, by making the loop more complicated, we can add more:
-From I-10, I-75, I-275, I-75, I-595, I-95, FL 9B, I-295
-I-295 (Richmond)
-I-295, New Jersey Turnpike
-I-278
-I-195, MA 24, I-93, I-91 to I-90*
-I-290, I-190, ON 405, QEW, Gardiner Expy, Don Valley Pkwy, ON 401, ON 402, I-69, I-96, I-196, I-94
-I-94, I-43, I-41, I-94
-I-94, I-694, I-94
-I-405 (Portland)
-I-505, I-80, US 101, I-280, I-680, I-580
-I-405 (LA)
-I-8
-I-410 (San Antonio)
-I-610 (Houston)
-I-210 (Lake Charles)

*I wanted to go into Québec, but alas every freeway border crossing east of Niagara Falls has at least one at-grade intersection (even if A-85 were finished, the at-grade on NB 95 would prevent going that way)
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

webny99

Quote from: vdeane on March 12, 2018, 07:49:16 PM
Well, I wasn't restricting it to major ones, and it was intended more as "let's see how absurd of an example I can think of to make a point" than to be taken seriously. 

Who was the intended recipient of your point?

My post is directly above yours - I was not inferring that we should start coming up with exotic loops that leave the metro area. I was looking for a more specific criteria from the OP - maybe a maximum length? or perhaps it can't leave the city limits? "Downtown" is specified, and there's a few interpretations of that. Anything larger (in terms of inside area) than a beltway is clearly not among those interpretations.



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