Myths/misconceptions/untrue things about road-related things

Started by index, July 13, 2018, 02:36:46 PM

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Bruce

Quote from: sparker on July 31, 2018, 04:59:55 AM
Quote from: jon daly on July 30, 2018, 08:02:53 PM


It's interesting to see I-82 in WA shown as a relatively heavily utilized commercial corridor -- but where does the traffic go once on to I-90?; neither direction of the latter route shows the dispersion of traffic from I-82.  Also, indicating railroads in dark green and non-Interstate commercial corridors in light green may be a mistake; the substantial traffic on CA 58 from Barstow to Bakersfield may be hidden because of the closely parallel rail corridor (the dark green lines cover the light green ones); the same goes for US 395 from Pasco north to Ritzville, WA.   Otherwise, this is a most useful map! :nod:

I think that's a map error. I-90 across Snoqualmie Pass is a somewhat major trucking corridor (fed in part by I-82), with a 2008 estimate putting it at 35 million tons of freight per year. Probably enough to register a thin line on this map.


ErmineNotyours

Maybe someone should start a thread about highways other than Route 66 that are mentioned in songs.

Even though they got the terminology wrong, Smashmouth sang this in "Pacific Coat Party":

QuoteGet your motor running
California Interstate 1
Pacific Coast Party

hotdogPi

Quote from: ErmineNotyours on August 05, 2018, 12:18:26 AM
Maybe someone should start a thread about highways other than Route 66 that are mentioned in songs.

Even though they got the terminology wrong, Smashmouth sang this in "Pacific Coat Party":

QuoteGet your motor running
California Interstate 1
Pacific Coast Party

There's already a thread on that somewhere.
Clinched, minus I-93 (I'm missing a few miles and my file is incorrect)

Traveled, plus US 13, 44, and 50, and several state routes

I will be in Burlington VT for the eclipse.

gilpdawg

Quote from: jon daly on July 19, 2018, 03:51:35 PM
Quote from: formulanone on July 19, 2018, 03:30:40 PM
Quote from: bing101 on July 18, 2018, 12:25:48 PM
Sacramento is the largest city without a 3di is a misconception.

On the flip side, there's many Roadgeek Misconceptions: That anyone besides those in the hobby, in the direct career fields, or those involved with those related agencies...will actually care about...

- Hidden route designations / transportation agency doesn't bother to sign something
- Whether a sign is 100% MUTCD-compliant, ugly, or uses the wrong font
- Whether a route number is "out of the grid"
- Who pays for the route maintenance (it's always perceived to be the taxpayer).

Heh. I don't care about most of those things. What interests me is the historical evolution of roads; especially those near me.

I'm not sure if that makes me an outlier here, but this is only one of a number of interests I have. My wife thinks I'm not focused enough, but I'm working on a way to grandly unify or intersect my interest in roads, oil, sports, history, music et cetera.

That's me too. The intense interest in that minutiae in the community doesn't interest me at all.

MNHighwayMan

Quote from: formulanone on July 19, 2018, 03:30:40 PM
Quote from: bing101 on July 18, 2018, 12:25:48 PM
Sacramento is the largest city without a 3di is a misconception.
On the flip side, there's many Roadgeek Misconceptions: That anyone besides those in the hobby, in the direct career fields, or those involved with those related agencies...will actually care about...

- Hidden route designations / transportation agency doesn't bother to sign something
- Whether a sign is 100% MUTCD-compliant, ugly, or uses the wrong font
- Whether a route number is "out of the grid"
- Who pays for the route maintenance (it's always perceived to be the taxpayer).

I dunno, my friends typically find that stuff interesting, although I dunno if it's genuine interest, or if they have the patience of saints and feign interest to be nice. :-D They're also almost certainly not a cross-section of the general population, either (they all have their own intense interests, too).

TXtoNJ

Quote from: gilpdawg on August 12, 2018, 07:51:02 PM
Quote from: jon daly on July 19, 2018, 03:51:35 PM
Quote from: formulanone on July 19, 2018, 03:30:40 PM
Quote from: bing101 on July 18, 2018, 12:25:48 PM
Sacramento is the largest city without a 3di is a misconception.

On the flip side, there's many Roadgeek Misconceptions: That anyone besides those in the hobby, in the direct career fields, or those involved with those related agencies...will actually care about...

- Hidden route designations / transportation agency doesn't bother to sign something
- Whether a sign is 100% MUTCD-compliant, ugly, or uses the wrong font
- Whether a route number is "out of the grid"
- Who pays for the route maintenance (it's always perceived to be the taxpayer).

Heh. I don't care about most of those things. What interests me is the historical evolution of roads; especially those near me.

I'm not sure if that makes me an outlier here, but this is only one of a number of interests I have. My wife thinks I'm not focused enough, but I'm working on a way to grandly unify or intersect my interest in roads, oil, sports, history, music et cetera.

That's me too. The intense interest in that minutiae in the community doesn't interest me at all.

Same here. Think there's a difference between those whose interest is more "spectrum-y" and those whose interest is of a different sort.

jon daly

Quote from: SP Cook on July 27, 2018, 09:06:54 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 27, 2018, 03:59:22 AM

I've never really understood SP's antipathy toward Route 66...


Antipathy is not the right word.  Probably the best is disregard. 

The best evidence is to look at the traffic volumes.  While the figures from the day are lost to history, the interstates that replaced it have their figures.  Mostly I-55, 44, 40 and 15.  And remember that a much LARGER %age of the populace, thanks to air conditioning, lives in the SW now than then. 

And the numbers are?  Mediocre.  Not in the top 40.  Grossly insignificant to the vast majority of Americans.  A route number combining as one a regional road connecting Chicago and St. Louis, and another connecting St. Louis and, by connection to other routes, the middle part of the east, to LA, (although you do not have to be that far north or south of STL for an entirely different US route to be the way west) across a vast and mostly empty part of the country.  Hardly the "mother road" or the "main street of America".  Legitimate candidates for the actual "main street" of America in that era would include US 1, 2, 11, 40, 50, or 51 & 61. 



I'm reading Larry McMurtry's ROADS right now  He wrote that "not many of the oldsters who drove route 66 in its heyday will be apt to wax nostalgic about it, for it was always a dangerous road, with much more traffic to carry than it could carry safely. Dead bodies in the bar ditch and smushed cars on wreckers were always common sights along old 66."

(P. 14.)

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: jon daly on August 31, 2018, 12:42:21 PM
Quote from: SP Cook on July 27, 2018, 09:06:54 AM
Quote from: CtrlAltDel on July 27, 2018, 03:59:22 AM

I've never really understood SP's antipathy toward Route 66...


Antipathy is not the right word.  Probably the best is disregard. 

The best evidence is to look at the traffic volumes.  While the figures from the day are lost to history, the interstates that replaced it have their figures.  Mostly I-55, 44, 40 and 15.  And remember that a much LARGER %age of the populace, thanks to air conditioning, lives in the SW now than then. 

And the numbers are?  Mediocre.  Not in the top 40.  Grossly insignificant to the vast majority of Americans.  A route number combining as one a regional road connecting Chicago and St. Louis, and another connecting St. Louis and, by connection to other routes, the middle part of the east, to LA, (although you do not have to be that far north or south of STL for an entirely different US route to be the way west) across a vast and mostly empty part of the country.  Hardly the "mother road" or the "main street of America".  Legitimate candidates for the actual "main street" of America in that era would include US 1, 2, 11, 40, 50, or 51 & 61. 



I'm reading Larry McMurtry's ROADS right now  He wrote that "not many of the oldsters who drove route 66 in its heyday will be apt to wax nostalgic about it, for it was always a dangerous road, with much more traffic to carry than it could carry safely. Dead bodies in the bar ditch and smushed cars on wreckers were always common sights along old 66."

(P. 14.)

That's the thing about nostalgia, rarely is it a "in the now"  kind of thing.  Now a great majority of the open segments of 66 are a breeze to drive with little to no traffic.  In the modern view most people probably think of neon signs, cars from the 1950s, ghost towns, and possibly being mobbed by burros regarding 66 rather than the utilitarian purpose it served for so many. 

Beltway

Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 31, 2018, 12:45:52 PM
That's the thing about nostalgia, rarely is it a "in the now"  kind of thing.  Now a great majority of the open segments of 66 are a breeze to drive with little to no traffic.  In the modern view most people probably think of neon signs, cars from the 1950s, ghost towns, and possibly being mobbed by burros regarding 66 rather than the utilitarian purpose it served for so many. 

Imagine "waxing nostalgic" about the segments of US-1, US-17, US-301 and US-40 that preceded the route of I-95!
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US 89

Quote from: Beltway on August 31, 2018, 03:50:58 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 31, 2018, 12:45:52 PM
That's the thing about nostalgia, rarely is it a "in the now"  kind of thing.  Now a great majority of the open segments of 66 are a breeze to drive with little to no traffic.  In the modern view most people probably think of neon signs, cars from the 1950s, ghost towns, and possibly being mobbed by burros regarding 66 rather than the utilitarian purpose it served for so many. 

Imagine "waxing nostalgic" about the segments of US-1, US-17, US-301 and US-40 that preceded the route of I-95!

But see, all those routes still exist as a parallel facility to the interstate (or run concurrent where there isn't a parallel route). Routes like 66 and 99 are completely gone, while routes like 80 and 91 have been drastically reduced. That didn't really happen in the east.

If the 66 designation had been kept for old alignments and business loops that were still state-maintained, 66 might not have gained its current position in popular culture. But really, how many other highways have had an entire song written about them? Not many.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: US 89 on August 31, 2018, 04:08:30 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 31, 2018, 03:50:58 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 31, 2018, 12:45:52 PM
That's the thing about nostalgia, rarely is it a "in the now"  kind of thing.  Now a great majority of the open segments of 66 are a breeze to drive with little to no traffic.  In the modern view most people probably think of neon signs, cars from the 1950s, ghost towns, and possibly being mobbed by burros regarding 66 rather than the utilitarian purpose it served for so many. 

Imagine "waxing nostalgic" about the segments of US-1, US-17, US-301 and US-40 that preceded the route of I-95!

But see, all those routes still exist as a parallel facility to the interstate (or run concurrent where there isn't a parallel route). Routes like 66 and 99 are completely gone, while routes like 80 and 91 have been drastically reduced. That didn't really happen in the east.

If the 66 designation had been kept for old alignments and business loops that were still state-maintained, 66 might not have gained its current position in popular culture. But really, how many other highways have had an entire song written about them? Not many.

Oddly I do have a lot of nostalgia to US 1 in the Florida Keys because I lived on it for awhile.  With 66 I think a lot of the nostalgia more or less comes from the allure of the journey across the country and the adventure that entails.  Granted you can say much of the same for Routes like US 40 and 50 but I think 66 had the right ingridents be it; end Point cities, points of interest, and geographic terrain which make it more memorable. 

thenetwork

Quote from: US 89 on August 31, 2018, 04:08:30 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 31, 2018, 03:50:58 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 31, 2018, 12:45:52 PM
That's the thing about nostalgia, rarely is it a "in the now"  kind of thing.  Now a great majority of the open segments of 66 are a breeze to drive with little to no traffic.  In the modern view most people probably think of neon signs, cars from the 1950s, ghost towns, and possibly being mobbed by burros regarding 66 rather than the utilitarian purpose it served for so many. 

Imagine "waxing nostalgic" about the segments of US-1, US-17, US-301 and US-40 that preceded the route of I-95!

But see, all those routes still exist as a parallel facility to the interstate (or run concurrent where there isn't a parallel route). Routes like 66 and 99 are completely gone, while routes like 80 and 91 have been drastically reduced. That didn't really happen in the east.

If the 66 designation had been kept for old alignments and business loops that were still state-maintained, 66 might not have gained its current position in popular culture. But really, how many other highways have had an entire song written about them? Not many.

I'm surprised that there isn't much hoopla for US-6.  A living, breathing (for the most part) route that runs/ran from L.A. to Cape Cod.  A lot of history along that route.  Maybe not as many old nor abandoned relics along that route noadays like the Mother Road, but still...

jon daly

Quote from: US 89 on August 31, 2018, 04:08:30 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 31, 2018, 03:50:58 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 31, 2018, 12:45:52 PM
That's the thing about nostalgia, rarely is it a "in the now"  kind of thing.  Now a great majority of the open segments of 66 are a breeze to drive with little to no traffic.  In the modern view most people probably think of neon signs, cars from the 1950s, ghost towns, and possibly being mobbed by burros regarding 66 rather than the utilitarian purpose it served for so many. 

Imagine "waxing nostalgic" about the segments of US-1, US-17, US-301 and US-40 that preceded the route of I-95!

But see, all those routes still exist as a parallel facility to the interstate (or run concurrent where there isn't a parallel route). Routes like 66 and 99 are completely gone, while routes like 80 and 91 have been drastically reduced. That didn't really happen in the east.

If the 66 designation had been kept for old alignments and business loops that were still state-maintained, 66 might not have gained its current position in popular culture. But really, how many other highways have had an entire song written about them? Not many.

The only ones I can think of are Ventura Highway and Highway 61.

hbelkins

Quote from: Beltway on August 31, 2018, 03:50:58 PM
Imagine "waxing nostalgic" about the segments of US-1, US-17, US-301 and US-40 that preceded the route of I-95!

I used to work with someone who spoke often of the years before the Mountain Parkway was built, when traffic from the Big Sandy Valley area of Kentucky had to use US 460 to get to the central part of the state.

Quote from: US 89 on August 31, 2018, 04:08:30 PMRoutes like 66 and 99 are completely gone, while routes like 80 and 91 have been drastically reduced. That didn't really happen in the east.

I would argue that it should have happened in many cases, and still should happen. Look at the definition of what a United States Numbered Route is supposed to be and apply that definition to, say, US 11. Is it really the best route to take from New Orleans to Birmingham to Chattanooga to Knoxville to Roanoke to Harrisburg to Binghamton to Syracuse to Watertown? No, it isn't. Is there any harm in removing its multi-state designation in favor of a state route designation? No. Whether the road is called US 11 or VA 11 or even VA 245 (number chosen at random), it will still serve as a parallel route than can be used as a detour or alternate if necessary.

I don't wax nostalgic over the loss of US 227 in Kentucky, except for wishing I had taken photos of the signage in my youth. I have plenty of pictures of US 11 in Virginia to do me if the route is ever decertified or decommissioned.


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

Max Rockatansky

Quote from: thenetwork on August 31, 2018, 05:59:31 PM
Quote from: US 89 on August 31, 2018, 04:08:30 PM
Quote from: Beltway on August 31, 2018, 03:50:58 PM
Quote from: Max Rockatansky on August 31, 2018, 12:45:52 PM
That's the thing about nostalgia, rarely is it a "in the now"  kind of thing.  Now a great majority of the open segments of 66 are a breeze to drive with little to no traffic.  In the modern view most people probably think of neon signs, cars from the 1950s, ghost towns, and possibly being mobbed by burros regarding 66 rather than the utilitarian purpose it served for so many. 

Imagine "waxing nostalgic" about the segments of US-1, US-17, US-301 and US-40 that preceded the route of I-95!

But see, all those routes still exist as a parallel facility to the interstate (or run concurrent where there isn't a parallel route). Routes like 66 and 99 are completely gone, while routes like 80 and 91 have been drastically reduced. That didn't really happen in the east.

If the 66 designation had been kept for old alignments and business loops that were still state-maintained, 66 might not have gained its current position in popular culture. But really, how many other highways have had an entire song written about them? Not many.

I'm surprised that there isn't much hoopla for US-6.  A living, breathing (for the most part) route that runs/ran from L.A. to Cape Cod.  A lot of history along that route.  Maybe not as many old nor abandoned relics along that route noadays like the Mother Road, but still...

US 6 does have a decent following the more westward you get.  Here in California US 6 gets a lot of attention due to the Sierra Highway alignment and CA 14U.  In Nevada US 6 is one of the primary east/west highways in the state...even though it is remote as all hell.  You also have the US Route 6 Tour Association which I was a member of for awhile:

http://www.route6tour.com/

vdeane

PA has some attention to US 6 too, with those "Do 6" milemarkers along the road.  I'm not aware of any other non-freeway in PA with milemarkers.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

D-Dey65

How about this myth; None of us would favor road improvements if we lived in their neighborhoods.



formulanone

Quote from: D-Dey65 on September 09, 2018, 09:24:02 AM
How about this myth; None of us would favor road improvements if we lived in their neighborhoods.

Can't paint that one with too broad a brush: It would depend on the size/scope of "improvement" and the individual's situation.

vdeane

Definitely.  I can think of at least one improvement I would like to see specifically because it's not far from where I live and drive through the area nearly every day.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

renegade

Quote from: thenetwork on August 31, 2018, 05:59:31 PMI'm surprised that there isn't much hoopla for US-6.  A living, breathing (for the most part) route that runs/ran from L.A. to Cape Cod.  A lot of history along that route.  Maybe not as many old nor abandoned relics along that route noadays like the Mother Road, but still...
Yup.  A good friend of mine lives one block off of US-6 just outside of Bowling Green, Ohio.  He is not savvy enough to realize that he can get just about anywhere in the country and it all begins with going to the stop sign at the end of his street. :)
Don’t ask me how I know.  Just understand that I do.

paulthemapguy

Quote from: Bruce on August 04, 2018, 01:18:21 AM
Quote from: sparker on July 31, 2018, 04:59:55 AM
It's interesting to see I-82 in WA shown as a relatively heavily utilized commercial corridor -- but where does the traffic go once on to I-90?; neither direction of the latter route shows the dispersion of traffic from I-82.  Also, indicating railroads in dark green and non-Interstate commercial corridors in light green may be a mistake; the substantial traffic on CA 58 from Barstow to Bakersfield may be hidden because of the closely parallel rail corridor (the dark green lines cover the light green ones); the same goes for US 395 from Pasco north to Ritzville, WA.   Otherwise, this is a most useful map! :nod:

I think that's a map error. I-90 across Snoqualmie Pass is a somewhat major trucking corridor (fed in part by I-82), with a 2008 estimate putting it at 35 million tons of freight per year. Probably enough to register a thin line on this map.

Guys.  That's a rail line from the Tri-Cities to Spokane.  It's green.  That's rail traffic going east from Portland to the rest of the country via the rail line that follows the US2 corridor
Avatar is the last interesting highway I clinched.
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sparker

Quote from: paulthemapguy on September 19, 2018, 09:13:50 AM
Quote from: Bruce on August 04, 2018, 01:18:21 AM
Quote from: sparker on July 31, 2018, 04:59:55 AM
It's interesting to see I-82 in WA shown as a relatively heavily utilized commercial corridor -- but where does the traffic go once on to I-90?; neither direction of the latter route shows the dispersion of traffic from I-82.  Also, indicating railroads in dark green and non-Interstate commercial corridors in light green may be a mistake; the substantial traffic on CA 58 from Barstow to Bakersfield may be hidden because of the closely parallel rail corridor (the dark green lines cover the light green ones); the same goes for US 395 from Pasco north to Ritzville, WA.   Otherwise, this is a most useful map! :nod:

I think that's a map error. I-90 across Snoqualmie Pass is a somewhat major trucking corridor (fed in part by I-82), with a 2008 estimate putting it at 35 million tons of freight per year. Probably enough to register a thin line on this map.

Guys.  That's a rail line from the Tri-Cities to Spokane.  It's green.  That's rail traffic going east from Portland to the rest of the country via the rail line that follows the US2 corridor

The original inquiry was about the moderately heavy red line along I-82, which indicates reasonably heavy commercial traffic and the lack of a similar trace along I-90 west from Ellensburg (I-82 junction) to Seattle.  And yes, the heavy dark green line extending SW from Spokane to the Tri-Cities is, of course, the main BNSF freight corridor across the Northwest -- but it is situated right next to US 395, which, from both AADT figures as well as my own experience, carries heavy commercial traffic bound for Portland from points in the upper Midwest (and vice-versa); and since the cartographers chose light green for non-Interstate corridors, the dark green of the adjoining rail line obscures any information about the highway.  Incidentally, most of the volume on that BNSF line is westbound grain to be loaded onto oceangoing barges at the Port of Kalama near Kelso, WA (one of the few bright spots in our balance-of-trade with China, Japan, and Korea).   

Super Mateo

Quote from: renegade on September 09, 2018, 10:33:26 PM
Quote from: thenetwork on August 31, 2018, 05:59:31 PMI'm surprised that there isn't much hoopla for US-6.  A living, breathing (for the most part) route that runs/ran from L.A. to Cape Cod.  A lot of history along that route.  Maybe not as many old nor abandoned relics along that route noadays like the Mother Road, but still...
Yup.  A good friend of mine lives one block off of US-6 just outside of Bowling Green, Ohio.  He is not savvy enough to realize that he can get just about anywhere in the country and it all begins with going to the stop sign at the end of his street. :)

There isn't any hoopla for US 6 here.  Around here, US 6 is barely acknowledged and is almost always referred to as 159th Street.  It's a arterial with a high density of stoplights, with no real historic points to find.  It's a slow trip on 159th, Torrence, IN 51, and 37th Avenue.  That's just the Chicagoland sections (excluding the I-80/94 overlap), though.  The other parts I've driven have a much more rural feel to them and are much easier drives.  That includes everything from near Wilton, IA to near Bryan, OH.  It's far more likely to find something unique there.

webny99

I agree re: projects in our own neighborhoods. I have long dreamed of a complete overhaul of the nearest signalized intersection to my house.

Roadgeekteen

That people auto drive 10-15 mph above the speed limit.
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