Traffic signal

[jakeroot]

Look at the doghouse, it's color configurated into a three color left turn signal, due to road work:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1621444,-75.1237667,3a,30y,339.45h,110.05t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1s5SfcJEmlSti6WGlFCFB3Jw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D5SfcJEmlSti6WGlFCFB3Jw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D77.37656%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100?hl=en&authuser=0

Very interesting, what I think PENNDOT could have done better is that they maybe should have thought about making the left lane a dedicated left turn lane for the time being, I would have either done that or prevent left turns and had signs instructing a U turn futher up.

It is a weird setup. Zero reason for a protected left there, and as a result of installing it, they only have one through signal.

WSDOT modified a doghouse like this a few months ago (I'll post it again below), but they added another signal on the right as required by the MUTCD, and there was a dedicated left turn lane, which made it far less awkward:

This temp signal in Alderton, WA (SR 162 (Orting Hwy) @ 96 St E) has a side-by-side style doghouse for the left turn signal, but it's being used in protected only mode. Where the arrow would normally be, the lenses are instead wrapped in black plastic.

If it were me, rather than jury-rigging a second overhead signal, I'd have just used a doghouse with the extra signal on the side, but whatever. Not my call.

As it relates to the above photo, things are in MD/DE/GA style with an all-black front and yellow back. Temp signals here are always an odd color scheme. Last one I saw had a completely yellow non-reflective backplate.

For the record, a truck hit old the signal: https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/local/article214721030.html

[Roadsguy]

Look at the doghouse, it's color configurated into a three color left turn signal, due to road work:
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1621444,-75.1237667,3a,30y,339.45h,110.05t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1s5SfcJEmlSti6WGlFCFB3Jw!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3D5SfcJEmlSti6WGlFCFB3Jw%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D77.37656%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100?hl=en&authuser=0

Very interesting, what I think PENNDOT could have done better is that they maybe should have thought about making the left lane a dedicated left turn lane for the time being, I would have either done that or prevent left turns and had signs instructing a U turn futher up.

It is a weird setup. Zero reason for a protected left there, and as a result of installing it, they only have one through signal.

It is a left turn lane as indicated by signage further back, though it's not striped. It's certainly a weird signal setup. It seems they took the existing doghouse and just moved it over with wiring extensions, but must have rewired it somewhat as there'd be no reason to have a wire for a red arrow before. (Maybe they were planning ahead when they first installed it?) I find it odd that there was only one normal signal to begin with, since I thought PennDOT usually uses two "through" signals in addition to left-turn doghouses when there's more than one through lane, as seen at the next light up. Maybe that's just a newer practice that this signal installation predates?

[Revive 755]

More of a beacon than a signal, but I'd rather post this here than start a new thread:  Does anywhere else use two doubled overhead flashing beacons beside Texas?  Example on US 82 near Gainesville

[jeffandnicole]

More of a beacon than a signal, but I'd rather post this here than start a new thread:  Does anywhere else use two doubled overhead flashing beacons beside Texas?  Example on US 82 near Gainesville

An example in NJ (the both blink red in this case):
https://goo.gl/maps/744EoNddQMm

[jakeroot]

Spokane has installed another 8-inch arrow (sometime between 2016 and 2017). It's a lagging left movement, so no bi-modal operation.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this is not the first 8-inch arrow installed by Spokane. The other location (only one block away) has several 8-8-8 RYG arrows, instead of just two. But I think those were retrofits, whereas these are brand new signals (though they could be recycled signal heads from another intersection).

8-inch arrows have long been banned, so I have no idea how or why these popped up only now, especially since Spokane has been using 12-inch arrows elsewhere in the city for decades. Maybe these downtown signals don't have enough conduit or weight capacity to support larger signals?

http://bit.ly/2sE169i

[Amtrakprod]

Spokane has installed another 8-inch arrow (sometime between 2016 and 2017). It's a lagging left movement, so no bi-modal operation.

As I mentioned earlier in the thread, this is not the first 8-inch arrow installed by Spokane. The other location (only one block away) has several 8-8-8 RYG arrows, instead of just two. But I think those were retrofits, whereas these are brand new signals (though they could be recycled signal heads from another intersection).

8-inch arrows have long been banned, so I have no idea how or why these popped up only now, especially since Spokane has been using 12-inch arrows elsewhere in the city for decades. Maybe these downtown signals don't have enough conduit or weight capacity to support larger signals?

http://bit.ly/2sE169i

8-inch arrows are one of my traffic pet peeves. I really do not understand how hard it is to change out one signal. As one would expect, MA is loaded with them...

[jakeroot]

8-inch arrows are one of my traffic pet peeves. I really do not understand how hard it is to change out one signal. As one would expect, MA is loaded with them...

They don't really bother me; I'm used to seeing them in British Columbia (where they're still installed regularly for near-side left turn signals). But I prefer them to be supplemental to 12-inch arrows (which they usually are in BC).

I didn't know there were any 8-inch arrows in MA. Do you know of any offhand?

[jakeroot]

Deleted -- moved to thread Right-turn arrow with simultaneous opposing left-turn arrow

[ErmineNotyours]

Only one through light here, though "through" is an onramp.

[kphoger]

Found something that I think is in error. Kingston, WA.

Two one-way streets meeting a major one-way street, but both one-way streets have green arrows at the same time for the turn onto the major one-way street. Only way this can safely work is if both cars turn into the near lane. Which they should, of course, but I still don't think this is permitted.

http://bit.ly/2U8CPnz (spin camera around to see the other signal)

Thread topic here.

[jakeroot]

Thread topic here.

Thanks...I reposted the link over there. Very nearly the same setup as the OP.

Only one through light here, though "through" is an onramp.

Ugh. The setup predates WSDOT's adoption of the 2009 MUTCD (in 2011), which used to permit one through head, if the through movement was less important than another movement. But even before 2011, [I thought] two through heads were standard for all movements except straight-ahead movements at off-ramps, where it was decided that going straight-ahead was less important than the turns. As a result, many off-ramps signalized prior to Jan 2012 (see: example in Kent) usually had only one green orb.

Oddly enough, nearby Renton was the bigger offender, where until recently, there were more than a couple of installs with only one through signal. Though it was installed a long time ago, Houser Way @ N 8 St is having one added soon (thanks to yours truly), and (as mentioned previously) Puget Dr @ Talbot, and SW 7 St @ Rainier both previously lacked extra green orbs as well (despite installation after 2011); at least they're receptive to my emails when I locate issues.

[Amtrakprod]

8-inch arrows are one of my traffic pet peeves. I really do not understand how hard it is to change out one signal. As one would expect, MA is loaded with them...

They don't really bother me; I'm used to seeing them in British Columbia (where they're still installed regularly for near-side left turn signals). But I prefer them to be supplemental to 12-inch arrows (which they usually are in BC).

I didn't know there were any 8-inch arrows in MA. Do you know of any offhand?

Yes, here are a few:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.4300204,-71.0454847,3a,32.8y,107.48h,90.77t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1slRGi7Fa5Kn5zfuyZDPkX6A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 and
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.1069514,-72.6231577,3a,19.3y,59.17h,92.51t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sc-SAIn8frJeJ0QOtiOrb1g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

[KEK Inc.]

What's with California's newer traffic signal installations?  Did Caltrans revise the standards for how thick the masts are built? 

Here's a photo I took in San Jose back in July:


The rest are just photos from Google Maps.
Fremont:


Streetview

Temecula:

Streetview

These are pretty recent -- I'd say between late 2017 and now.  I saw some more when I was down in California in Carmel-by-the-Sea, Anaheim, San Mateo and San Luis Obispo, but I couldn't find those intersections updated on Google Street View, and I didn't take pictures, unfortunately. 

These masts seem overengineered for the load, even for the long mast-arm length.  Perhaps the standard is a clever way to hide 5G cell transmission equipment within the mast?

[Brandon]

Those don't seem all that thick for what they are.

Here's a contrast:
Illinois typical
Wisconsin typical

If you'll note, the Illinois one is about as thick as your new California ones above.  The Wisconsin one, on the other hand, is really a big mastarm.

[US 89]

It looks a lot bigger than what you'd usually see in Utah:

Classic curved mast-arm design
Old design for long mast-arms (rare)
New curved mast-arm design (shorter)
New straight mast-arm design (longer)

I don't know...to me, none of those looks as disproportionate as those California pictures. Maybe that's a Utah thing though.

[jakeroot]

In those CA examples, the mast arm appears to be no thicker than normal, but the mast itself is definitely oversized for the arm. Other than the massive signal bridges with two masts, I haven't seen any mast that large here in WA.

If you'll note, the Illinois one is about as thick as your new California ones above.  The Wisconsin one, on the other hand, is really a big mastarm.

Kek is referring to the mast, not the arm. Both of your examples have pretty standard mast designs from my point of view.

[KEK Inc.]

I haven't seen any mast that large here in WA.

Everett has a myriad of different traffic light mast and mast-arm designs.  The stone masts are pretty thick, but that makes a little more sense. 


Streetview

Maybe Caltrans changed the wind loading specs?  😂

[jakeroot]

I haven't seen any mast that large here in WA.

Everett has a myriad of different traffic light mast and mast-arm designs.  The stone masts are pretty thick, but that makes a little more sense. 

If you squint your eyes (and partly ignore the materials), you could almost confuse that Everett setup with those new CA setups.

Maybe Caltrans changed the wind loading specs?  😂

Fat chance!

[KEK Inc.]

I seem to recall unincorporated Pierce County signals from 2015 to look very Caltrans-inspired.  They're still following WSDOT's general signal per lane protocol as well as omitting backplates. 


iPhone

[jakeroot]

I seem to recall unincorporated Pierce County signals from 2015 to look very Caltrans-inspired.  They're still following WSDOT's general signal per lane protocol as well as omitting backplates. 

They've actually changed to become very uhh...basic. Newer mast arms are now straight (again), and backplates basically just showed up overnight across the county about a year ago, complete with reflective tape.

Problem with Pierce County, compared to other agencies, is that, in many cases, the left turn signal is moved off-center towards the through lane, making the left turn signal and the left through signal closer together than the through signal is to the other through signal. Hard to describe, but you can see it in the above link.

The most Caltrans-looking signal in the county is undoubtedly this install: http://bit.ly/2CIDnJL -- curved mast arm with an auxiliary signal on the mast (Canyon Road recently received auxiliary signals along its entire length south of SR-512).

One odd thing that Pierce County is obsessed with is the three-head FYA. This four-head FYA from several years ago was recently swapped out with a three-head FYA. Apparently this is so all FYA's in the county look the same. Because they've been modifying a lot of the existing protected-only lefts, there's a whole bunch of three-head FYA's that only exist because it was cheaper than adding an extra signal face.

[KEK Inc.]

They've actually changed to become very uhh...basic. Newer mast arms are now straight (again), and backplates basically just showed up overnight across the county about a year ago, complete with reflective tape.

Well, it's interesting because there's a new signal on a municipal Tacoma street that doesn't fit the standard Tacoma design, but rather a typical WSDOT mast setup for the luminaire. 

Problem with Pierce County, compared to other agencies, is that, in many cases, the left turn signal is moved off-center towards the through lane, making the left turn signal and the left through signal closer together than the through signal is to the other through signal. Hard to describe, but you can see it in the above link.

Seems like they cheaped out on the mast-arm and are improvising? 

The most Caltrans-looking signal in the county is undoubtedly this install: http://bit.ly/2CIDnJL -- curved mast arm with an auxiliary signal on the mast (Canyon Road recently received auxiliary signals along its entire length south of SR-512).

Looks good.  I wish the mast-arm for the luminaire matched the same curve as the mast-arm for the signals.   Caltrans would only have one signal on the mast-arm too. 

One odd thing that Pierce County is obsessed with is the three-head FYA. This four-head FYA from several years ago was recently swapped out with a three-head FYA. Apparently this is so all FYA's in the county look the same. Because they've been modifying a lot of the existing protected-only lefts, there's a whole bunch of three-head FYA's that only exist because it was cheaper than adding an extra signal face.

So is the bottom signal yellow or green?  I've seen 3-head FYA in Beaverton, OR, where the bottom signal is (flashing) yellow implying that there is never a protected phase.  It's a common practice now for right-turns into pedestrian crosswalks. 


Slight side-note:  Here's an intriguing 3-head FYA in Los Angeles for both right and left turns.


Streetview

[jakeroot]

They've actually changed to become very uhh...basic. Newer mast arms are now straight (again), and backplates basically just showed up overnight across the county about a year ago, complete with reflective tape.

Well, it's interesting because there's a new signal on a municipal Tacoma street that doesn't fit the standard Tacoma design, but rather a typical WSDOT mast setup for the luminaire. 

Tacoma seems to have moved away from the so-called "Tacoma Tower" in favor of the flashing yellow arrow. The last install I know was at Pacific & South Tacoma Way.

As for the mast, backplates, etc, those installs along 38th are similar in design to the new signals along Port of Tacoma Road, although those (except the new curved mast arm at Marshall Ave) have 8-sided(?) mast arms. It's possible that the city has adopted WSDOT guidelines for signals, although the city still seems to use its own pavement marking scheme, similar to Seattle.

Problem with Pierce County, compared to other agencies, is that, in many cases, the left turn signal is moved off-center towards the through lane, making the left turn signal and the left through signal closer together than the through signal is to the other through signal. Hard to describe, but you can see it in the above link.

Seems like they cheaped out on the mast-arm and are improvising? 

Possible, although it happens so often, I wonder if it's intentional. It's almost like the mast arms were designed for 5-section pro/per signals.

Nearby Puyallup, when switching to FYA's from 5-section signals, installed several mast-arm extensions to get the FYA to the center of the left turn lane (note in that link, the extension is not yet installed, but the new through signals are installed to give you some idea of where the FYA was placed).

The most Caltrans-looking signal in the county is undoubtedly this install: http://bit.ly/2CIDnJL -- curved mast arm with an auxiliary signal on the mast (Canyon Road recently received auxiliary signals along its entire length south of SR-512).

Looks good.  I wish the mast-arm for the luminaire matched the same curve as the mast-arm for the signals.   Caltrans would only have one signal on the mast-arm too. 

That would have been cool, but too much to ask of Pierce County . Most of Canyon has through-minus-one for the number of signal heads (at least in the three lane sections), but it's a sea of straight mast arms in those areas. Except for two at 176th, which have a slight curve plus auxiliary signals for the both the left and through movements. Very CA-esque, minus the use of two overhead left turn signals.

One odd thing that Pierce County is obsessed with is the three-head FYA. This four-head FYA from several years ago was recently swapped out with a three-head FYA. Apparently this is so all FYA's in the county look the same. Because they've been modifying a lot of the existing protected-only lefts, there's a whole bunch of three-head FYA's that only exist because it was cheaper than adding an extra signal face.

So is the bottom signal yellow or green?  I've seen 3-head FYA in Beaverton, OR, where the bottom signal is (flashing) yellow implying that there is never a protected phase.  It's a common practice now for right-turns into pedestrian crosswalks. 

Pierce County's have a flashing yellow in the central lens position, unlike Lakewood which uses a flashing yellow/solid green combo.

Auburn seems to have a ton of those FYA's for right turns, though most are four-section FYA's.

Slight side-note:  Here's an intriguing 3-head FYA in Los Angeles for both right and left turns.

Streetview

That may be the first signal in the history of California not to feature any sort of pole- or mast-mounted green signal. The other direction also has some very crowded signals, unlike anything I've really seen in CA.

[Roadsguy]

Slight side-note:  Here's an intriguing 3-head FYA in Los Angeles for both right and left turns.


Streetview

The only one I've seen in person is on westbound US 422 at Locust Street near Myerstown, PA. The other direction has a normal one with a green arrow.

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

Looking on streetview those FYAs look like theyre used for a leading pedestrian/bike interval.

[Ace10]

One odd thing that Pierce County is obsessed with is the three-head FYA. This four-head FYA from several years ago was recently swapped out with a three-head FYA. Apparently this is so all FYA's in the county look the same. Because they've been modifying a lot of the existing protected-only lefts, there's a whole bunch of three-head FYA's that only exist because it was cheaper than adding an extra signal face.

So is the bottom signal yellow or green?  I've seen 3-head FYA in Beaverton, OR, where the bottom signal is (flashing) yellow implying that there is never a protected phase.  It's a common practice now for right-turns into pedestrian crosswalks. 

The vast majority of 3-head FYAs in Beaverton (and Washington County in general) are bimodal, meaning the bottom head can display both a solid green arrow and FYA (obviously not at the same time). It's rare but a few signals in Oregon have the FYA use the same head as the solid yellow arrow. Most however have the FYA use the same face that displays the solid green arrow.

Some signals in the Portland area do have a bottom head that shows only a FYA, not a solid green arrow. The only one I can think of off the top of my head is a pair of right turn signals on SE Gideon St and SE 12th Ave. I don't know why a green arrow isn't shown, though it might be due to the fact that opposing left turns into the same street may be made on a red arrow. https://goo.gl/maps/9ovehzJXH652