News:

Thanks to everyone for the feedback on what errors you encountered from the forum database changes made in Fall 2023. Let us know if you discover anymore.

Main Menu

Rural Freeways That Need Six Lanes

Started by webny99, January 01, 2019, 12:58:05 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

J N Winkler

I'm joining this thread three years late to supply some hard answers for Kansas and Nebraska, based on the OP's cited criteria of present-day AADT of 30,000 VPD.

*  In Nebraska, I-80 has already undergone rural widening to six lanes all the way from Omaha west to Lincoln, and the long-term plan is to widen all the way from Lincoln to Grand Island, amounting to the eastern third of I-80 in the state.  As of 2021, AADT does not drop below 30,000 VPD until the Link 80G interchange (Exit 373) near Goehner, about 25 miles west of Lincoln.  I-80 also has high truck percentages, ranging from about 30% in the eastern part of the state to over 50% in the far west.

*  In Kansas, long-term plans for rural widening to six lanes are restricted to the Turnpike (I-70) between Topeka and Kansas City as part of the Kaw Corridor upgrades.  This is the only segment of the rural freeway network with AADTs consistently above 30,000 VPD.  The Turnpike already has six lanes between Topeka and Lawrence.  Between Lawrence and the K-7 interchange near Bonner Springs, the Turnpike still has just the original four lanes, but the volumes are just barely above the 30,000 VPD threshold.  (All numbers are as of 2021.)  Besides I-70, there are short segments of other freeways and expressways such as I-35 in far southwestern Johnson County and US 54-400 in Sedgwick County between Goddard and Wichita that carry AADTs in excess of 30,000 VPD, but these are clearly under metropolitan influence and do not cross any county lines.  Truck percentages rarely rise above 30% and typically do so in the presence of low overall volumes.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini


Ted$8roadFan

If not already mentioned.......in Tennessee, I-75 south from its split with I-40 south of Knoxville to Chattanooga.

MATraveler128

I-84 west of Waterbury in Connecticut. I think the amount of traffic has really outgrown the capacity of that highway. Every time I use this highway, there's always heavy traffic which could be fixed if it was at least six lanes through that stretch. And the construction through Waterbury doesn't help either.
Decommission 128 south of Peabody!

Lowest untraveled number: 56

Hunty2022

I-64 from Charlottesville to Short Pump.
100th Post: 11/10/22
250th Post: 12/3/22
500th Post: 3/12/23
1000th Post: 11/12/23

Hunty Roads (under construction):
https://huntyroadsva.blogspot.com

MikieTimT

I-40 in Arkansas between Little Rock and Memphis needs it pretty badly as it's 38K AADT (2021) with 64% trucks.  Once I-30 between Texarkana and Little Rock is 6 laned, there'll be some notable LOS degradation.  And when I-69/I-369 in Texas gets done, it and I-30 will need 8 laning without I-69 in Arkansas and Mississippi.

ethanhopkin14

Quote from: achilles765 on November 27, 2022, 12:23:20 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 07, 2021, 05:26:51 PM
I-10 is being expanded to 6 lanes out to US-77. Long term plans call to keep going to San Antonio. It's happening... they're making significant progress 20-30 miles at a time.

Honestly I think I-10 should be 6-10 lanes from San Antonio all the way to the Mississippi state line. And all of I-12 too.

I don't know the eventual plan of I-10 between San Antonio and Houston.  I did hear the plan was for it to be six lanes the whole way, but I could have heard that from a random stranger yelling in a loud bar.  Basically, I don't have any hard evidence of that being the plan.  We all know the section from the old downgrade from six to four just east of Brookshire to a point just east of the San Bernard River crossing is about to wrap up in the next year.  A project to add a lane on the east side of San Antonio just wrapped up and they are currently adding a lane to Exit 599.  There is still a significant section between the project of rural four lane freeway.  I guess it will be like when the interstate highway system was built originally.  They will incrementally work toward each other until the gap is filled, if that is the end goal.  Now from Houston east to the Louisiana state line is still a mess.  It is a nice freeway six lanes wide heading east out of Houston until you hit the construction northeast of Winnie.  That section has been under construction for a while, but I think they are making progress.  Then there is a section with no construction for a mile or two.  Then you have to drive on the modified feeder road before you get to Beaumont.  That section seems to be progressing the quickest.  Through Beaumont and Vidor you have at least six lanes.  Then you reach Orange.  That's the real mess.  I was through there in 2020 and 2022 and I swear nothing was changed.  Nothing like headed westbound and you immediately get thrown into a tight windy stretch of interstate with the worst pavement you have ever seen as your welcome card into Texas.  I am convinced this is one of those Texas Permanant Construction Zones.  Now with Louisiana working on their part to add a lane from the state line to the pre-existing six lane section that starts just east of mile marker 10, we can conceivably have at least six lanes (three in each direction) on I-10 from the San Bernard River crossing to US-165 just east of Iowa, LA in the next five years (the one gap would be the Calcasieu River Bridge and approaches, which is slated to be replaced but I have no idea the time table on that).  Its 212 miles but seems so much longer than that. 

Second point, yes, I-12 should be at least six lanes for its entire route.  I can't think of another interstate with such extreme constant traffic.

sprjus4

Quote from: Hunty2022 on November 30, 2022, 08:35:26 AM
I-64 from Charlottesville to Short Pump.
I have driven the section of I-64 between Staunton and Richmond countless times, and it is honestly one of the segments of interstate in Virginia I feel does not need widening.

Even during busy weekends, it always moves at 70+ mph and does not carry a significant amount of truck traffic. I've never had an issue with that highway except during an accident, which is unavoidable anywhere.

The entire length of I-81 in Virginia (325 miles) and the remaining 4 lane portion between Bottoms Bridge and Williamsburg (29 miles) is a much greater need for 6 lanes than between Staunton and Richmond.

Widening I-64 to 8 lanes between Williamsburg and Newport News, and widening I-95 to 8 lanes between Richmond and Northern Virginia is a higher need than widening that portion of I-64 to 6 lanes.

** ONE EXCEPTION: Afton Mountain. At minimum, climbing lanes are needed on the uphill portions, and ideally should be 6 lanes throughout. Perhaps Charlottesville may warrant 6 lanes as traffic increases as well. But the remainder is adequate at 4 lanes. **

sprjus4

Quote from: MikieTimT on November 30, 2022, 08:58:56 AM
I-40 in Arkansas between Little Rock and Memphis needs it pretty badly as it's 38K AADT (2021) with 64% trucks.  Once I-30 between Texarkana and Little Rock is 6 laned, there'll be some notable LOS degradation.  And when I-69/I-369 in Texas gets done, it and I-30 will need 8 laning without I-69 in Arkansas and Mississippi.
I feel that I-40 is a higher priority and would get widened before I-30 is ever expanded any further.

J N Winkler

I haven't delved into Texas Interstates in detail, but a casual look at TxDOT's statewide planning map suggests I-10 racks up AADTs consistently above 30,000 VPD all the way from the Louisiana state line west to the end of the US 87 overlap at Comfort, a distance of about 360 miles that includes the urban segments through Houston and San Antonio.
"It is necessary to spend a hundred lire now to save a thousand lire later."--Piero Puricelli, explaining the need for a first-class road system to Benito Mussolini

US 89

Quote from: Urban Prairie Schooner on November 27, 2022, 01:37:27 PM
If not already mentioned, I-20 in East Texas, post haste.

Agreed. I drove from Shreveport to Dallas last summer and it was terrible long before I got even close to the metroplex. So many trucks...

MikieTimT

Quote from: sprjus4 on November 30, 2022, 05:29:38 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on November 30, 2022, 08:58:56 AM
I-40 in Arkansas between Little Rock and Memphis needs it pretty badly as it's 38K AADT (2021) with 64% trucks.  Once I-30 between Texarkana and Little Rock is 6 laned, there'll be some notable LOS degradation.  And when I-69/I-369 in Texas gets done, it and I-30 will need 8 laning without I-69 in Arkansas and Mississippi.
I feel that I-40 is a higher priority and would get widened before I-30 is ever expanded any further.

It's scheduled to start in a few years on the segments near LR and West Memphis and work toward each other over a likely excruciatingly long time.  The big river bridges are already widened, just currently striped for 4 lanes.

webny99

Quote from: ethanhopkin14 on November 30, 2022, 05:21:06 PM
Quote from: achilles765 on November 27, 2022, 12:23:20 AM
Quote from: sprjus4 on May 07, 2021, 05:26:51 PM
I-10 is being expanded to 6 lanes out to US-77. Long term plans call to keep going to San Antonio. It's happening... they're making significant progress 20-30 miles at a time.

Honestly I think I-10 should be 6-10 lanes from San Antonio all the way to the Mississippi state line. And all of I-12 too.
...

Second point, yes, I-12 should be at least six lanes for its entire route.  I can't think of another interstate with such extreme constant traffic.

I-12 has been mentioned a few times, how much of it is 6-lanes already and what are the traffic volumes like on the 4-lane sections? I guess I wouldn't have expected that much traffic because all New Orleans traffic would take I-10, but maybe there's more than I'm giving credit for.

Road Hog

Quote from: MikieTimT on December 01, 2022, 10:36:20 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on November 30, 2022, 05:29:38 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on November 30, 2022, 08:58:56 AM
I-40 in Arkansas between Little Rock and Memphis needs it pretty badly as it's 38K AADT (2021) with 64% trucks.  Once I-30 between Texarkana and Little Rock is 6 laned, there'll be some notable LOS degradation.  And when I-69/I-369 in Texas gets done, it and I-30 will need 8 laning without I-69 in Arkansas and Mississippi.
I feel that I-40 is a higher priority and would get widened before I-30 is ever expanded any further.

It's scheduled to start in a few years on the segments near LR and West Memphis and work toward each other over a likely excruciatingly long time.  The big river bridges are already widened, just currently striped for 4 lanes.
In the meantime I'd like to see one or two stretches in the middle for passing lanes just to break the logjam. The White River is almost halfway and the stretch between Brinkley and Hazen would be a logical spot.

US 89

Quote from: Road Hog on December 02, 2022, 08:43:40 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on December 01, 2022, 10:36:20 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on November 30, 2022, 05:29:38 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on November 30, 2022, 08:58:56 AM
I-40 in Arkansas between Little Rock and Memphis needs it pretty badly as it's 38K AADT (2021) with 64% trucks.  Once I-30 between Texarkana and Little Rock is 6 laned, there'll be some notable LOS degradation.  And when I-69/I-369 in Texas gets done, it and I-30 will need 8 laning without I-69 in Arkansas and Mississippi.
I feel that I-40 is a higher priority and would get widened before I-30 is ever expanded any further.

It's scheduled to start in a few years on the segments near LR and West Memphis and work toward each other over a likely excruciatingly long time.  The big river bridges are already widened, just currently striped for 4 lanes.
In the meantime I'd like to see one or two stretches in the middle for passing lanes just to break the logjam. The White River is almost halfway and the stretch between Brinkley and Hazen would be a logical spot.

I feel like the resulting bottleneck where it narrows back would produce enough of a backup to make it not worth it.

webny99


Quote from: MikieTimT on December 01, 2022, 10:36:20 PM
Quote from: sprjus4 on November 30, 2022, 05:29:38 PM
Quote from: MikieTimT on November 30, 2022, 08:58:56 AM
I-40 in Arkansas between Little Rock and Memphis needs it pretty badly as it's 38K AADT (2021) with 64% trucks.  Once I-30 between Texarkana and Little Rock is 6 laned, there'll be some notable LOS degradation.  And when I-69/I-369 in Texas gets done, it and I-30 will need 8 laning without I-69 in Arkansas and Mississippi.
I feel that I-40 is a higher priority and would get widened before I-30 is ever expanded any further.

It's scheduled to start in a few years on the segments near LR and West Memphis and work toward each other over a likely excruciatingly long time.  The big river bridges are already widened, just currently striped for 4 lanes.

Are there actual plans to widen I-30 (in AR and/or TX)?



Quote from: US 89 on December 02, 2022, 08:48:02 PM
Quote from: Road Hog on December 02, 2022, 08:43:40 PM
In the meantime I'd like to see one or two stretches in the middle for passing lanes just to break the logjam. The White River is almost halfway and the stretch between Brinkley and Hazen would be a logical spot.

I feel like the resulting bottleneck where it narrows back would produce enough of a backup to make it not worth it.

Even with only 38k AADT? The Thruway has a single six-lane segment with 60k AADT flanked by four-lane segments of 30k and 40k, and I've never seen a backup at either end unless it's related to an incident, but maybe that's just because so much traffic is exiting. Even so, I don't think there would be recurring problems with a lane drop unless volumes got considerably higher than that (which could happen, say on summer weekends or holidays, but not regularly).


sprjus4

^ I used the entire portion of I-12 this past summer, and it was nothing but a long bottleneck. The six lane portions moved well, but the 4 lane sections were tight. Moving, but very heavy.

It definitely warrants 6 lanes throughout.

Road Hog

On I-30, it's being widened to six lanes down to the US 70 split (Exit 111) and there's some work being done in Texarkana on the Texas side. Closer to Dallas, I-30 is being widened in Rockwall County up to the Hunt County line, but that's it.

D-Dey65

Quote from: webny99 on November 22, 2022, 01:37:06 PM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on November 22, 2022, 01:21:14 PM
I-85 from Commerce, GA to Northlake, SC .The incredible growth in that corridor with all the trucks mandate six lanes.

The bridges from GA into SC are also badly in need of replacement.
I want to say it's a good thing I haven't been there that often, but the only good thing about it is that I wouldn't see if it's as bad as something like the Tappan Zee Bridge when it was declining.


webny99

Quote from: D-Dey65 on December 04, 2022, 05:04:25 AM
Quote from: webny99 on November 22, 2022, 01:37:06 PM
Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on November 22, 2022, 01:21:14 PM
I-85 from Commerce, GA to Northlake, SC .The incredible growth in that corridor with all the trucks mandate six lanes.

The bridges from GA into SC are also badly in need of replacement.
I want to say it's a good thing I haven't been there that often, but the only good thing about it is that I wouldn't see if it's as bad as something like the Tappan Zee Bridge when it was declining.

For a relatively rural bridge, it would be pretty tough to match the Tappan Zee in terms of congestion...

D-Dey65

Quote from: webny99 on December 04, 2022, 02:14:38 PM
For a relatively rural bridge, it would be pretty tough to match the Tappan Zee in terms of congestion...
I thought you were talking more about the condition of the bridge. I remember when I found out the old US 301 Truss Bridge over Nottaway River was in such pathetic condition that I would've felt safer crossing the Tappan Zee even in its deteriorated condition at the time. That bridge got even less traffic than I-85 at the Georgia-South Carolina state line.

webny99

#620
Quote from: D-Dey65 on December 04, 2022, 06:04:54 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 04, 2022, 02:14:38 PM
For a relatively rural bridge, it would be pretty tough to match the Tappan Zee in terms of congestion...
I thought you were talking more about the condition of the bridge. I remember when I found out the old US 301 Truss Bridge over Nottaway River was in such pathetic condition that I would've felt safer crossing the Tappan Zee even in its deteriorated condition at the time. That bridge got even less traffic than I-85 at the Georgia-South Carolina state line.

Sorry, I should have been more clear... I was indeed talking about them needing to be replaced because they're in poor condition. They don't carry the same type of volume as the Tappan Zee, but I do think they should be six-laned if they are replaced.

wriddle082

Quote from: webny99 on December 04, 2022, 09:58:27 PM
Quote from: D-Dey65 on December 04, 2022, 06:04:54 PM
Quote from: webny99 on December 04, 2022, 02:14:38 PM
For a relatively rural bridge, it would be pretty tough to match the Tappan Zee in terms of congestion...
I thought you were talking more about the condition of the bridge. I remember when I found out the old US 301 Truss Bridge over Nottaway River was in such pathetic condition that I would've felt safer crossing the Tappan Zee even in its deteriorated condition at the time. That bridge got even less traffic than I-85 at the Georgia-South Carolina state line.

Sorry, I should have been more clear... I was talking about them needing to be replaced because they're in poor condition, but I think they should be six-laned if they are replaced.

Right now GDOT and SCDOT are jointly working on completely replacing the I-20 bridges over the Savannah River in the Augusta/North Augusta, and widening the roadway from 4 to 6 lanes from GA Exit 200 to past SC Exit 1.  I suppose after this is done, they may team up to work on the I-85 bridges.

MikieTimT

Quote from: Road Hog on December 04, 2022, 03:26:28 AM
On I-30, it's being widened to six lanes down to the US 70 split (Exit 111) and there's some work being done in Texarkana on the Texas side. Closer to Dallas, I-30 is being widened in Rockwall County up to the Hunt County line, but that's it.

Even in the more rural parts of I-30 in Arkansas, there's 32K AADT with 58% of the traffic being trucks (2021 AADT).  Micropassing trucks are a huge bottleneck anytime you've got numbers like that on a 4 lane interstate.  And any accidents tying up the lanes in one direction typically cause backups for dozens of miles as they're likely to involve trucks.  It'll have to happen before US-59 in Texas is upgraded to I-69/I-369 as I don't see Louisiana, Arkansas and Mississippi having I-69 completed in enough time (or maybe even at all) to prevent the counts from jumping to near 50K AADT on both I-30 and I-40 east of Little Rock.

VTGoose

Quote from: sprjus4 on December 02, 2022, 10:46:28 PM
^ I used the entire portion of I-12 this past summer, and it was nothing but a long bottleneck. The six lane portions moved well, but the 4 lane sections were tight. Moving, but very heavy.

It definitely warrants 6 lanes throughout.

We last drove I-12 a year ago escaping from Baton Rouge. Our son and family moved back to St. Petersburg, ending a year and a half in La. There were portions of the highway that were in the process of being widened, a section or two with 6 lanes but only 4 in use, and a long stretch of just 4 lanes. On one trip, we sat in stand-still traffic for over an hour because a wreck blocked both lanes and the shoulder. At least with an extra lane emergency services can clear things up a little quicker.
"Get in the fast lane, grandma!  The bingo game is ready to roll!"

D-Dey65

Quote from: Ted$8roadFan on November 27, 2022, 01:54:30 PM
I'm sure it's been mentioned, but I would include I-81 from Scranton, PA all the way south to its end with I-40 in Dandridge, TN.
I agree, and I also think I-95 from the Savannah River to Petersburg, Virginia, needs six lanes. I know there was this argument over whether I-95 or I-81 should be more of a priority in Virginia, but I'm not going to favor one or the other.

Actually, I'm leaning towards the 2-2-2-2 cars only vs truck lanes in Virginia.




Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.