US-75 Expansion/Construction between north of Dallas and the TX/OK state line

[TheBox]

I know I made this pretty late cause of how much was done within the past decade, but better than never.

Mostly focusing around Sherman

4 lanes divided expressway (kinda freeway in all parts actually ) may sound fine for now.........until you realize that DFW is one of the big metros from the Texas Triangle that is growing like crazy

Oklahoma has been doing their part around Durant OK since the overpasses were just finished. So how is the 6 lane expansion going in Texas currently?

[Bobby5280]

US-75 is currently under construction in Sherman from the US-82 interchange down to the exit for FM-1417. I don't know what the final configuration will be, but I expect a minimum of 3x3 lanes with some spots in Sherman featuring 4x4 lanes. There is construction on US-82 thru the volleyball interchange with US-75. TX DOT eventually will have to turn that interchange into a directional stack. But it's going to be fun creating room for the direct connect fly-over ramps.

If the Grayson County Tollway is built out from the North End of the Dallas North Tollway up to US-75 in Denison that will load the US-75 corridor will more traffic going into Oklahoma.

The 3x3 configuration of US-75 going North of McKinney ends at the exit with Rosamond Pkwy and county road 370. But I would expect that 3x3 configuration to be extended up to Sherman in the years ahead.

[Road Hog]

US 75 was completely rebuilt in phases from 2002-2006 from the Grayson-Collin county line up to the TI plant. The new roadway was designed to add third lanes on each side and will be easy to widen.

But first they need to connect Rosamond Parkway with the county line, which is an odd gap that is still old early 1960s freeway. There's also the same sort of odd gap from the TI plant to where the new construction begins south of FM 1417.

[Road Hog]

My previous post should illustrate, if you look, TxDOT's changing approaches to roadway design in the Aughts.

The larger segment south of FM 902 to the county line and the short segment crossing Shepherd Road were designed and built in the early part of the decade and are very flat with great sight lines.

The connecting segment between FM 902/SH 5 and Shepherd Road was built a few years later and resembles a Six Flags roller coaster in its ups and downs. TxDOT decided to cheap out and build to the existing terrain.

[Bobby5280]

When they re-built the segment of US-75 between the FM-375 interchange and Shepherd Road near the TI factory TX DOT made some odd choices. The resulting 4-lane highway segment ended up looking like an Oklahoma turnpike with the opposing roadways joined together and separated by a Jersey barrier. And why did they build it with just 4 lanes? This is a major highway in the DFW region. They could have build it in a 3x3 configuration or at least put down the pavement and stripe it temporarily as 2x2 until other segments can be upgraded.

As for declining standards (or "cheaping out"), I would imagine the absurdly high inflation rate of road building costs is a factor.

[DJStephens]

My previous post should illustrate, if you look, TxDOT's changing approaches to roadway design in the Aughts.

The larger segment south of FM 902 to the county line and the short segment crossing Shepherd Road were designed and built in the early part of the decade and are very flat with great sight lines.

The connecting segment between FM 902/SH 5 and Shepherd Road was built a few years later and resembles a Six Flags roller coaster in its ups and downs. TxDOT decided to cheap out and build to the existing terrain.

The "new" I-10 mainlines south of Vinton TX (between Exit 2 and Exit 11, Mesa Dr) will have that same problem and phenomenom.   Excessive vertical curvature.   Spending all that money, on new arroyo crossings, all new concrete pavements, and new continuous center median divider.  And to do it incorrectly.   The already reconstructed frontage roads, on each side of 10 along that stretch, also could have been "smoothed" out.  Am of belief there was a conscious decision, at some point, to reduce design standards possibly aping what New Mexico has done.   

[bwana39]

When they re-built the segment of US-75 between the FM-375 interchange and Shepherd Road near the TI factory TX DOT made some odd choices. The resulting 4-lane highway segment ended up looking like an Oklahoma turnpike with the opposing roadways joined together and separated by a Jersey barrier. And why did they build it with just 4 lanes? This is a major highway in the DFW region. They could have build it in a 3x3 configuration or at least put down the pavement and stripe it temporarily as 2x2 until other segments can be upgraded.

As for declining standards (or "cheaping out"), I would imagine the absurdly high inflation rate of road building costs is a factor.

We tend to think of TxDOT as a single entity. Functionally it is 25 regional agencies with oversight from the central agency. Grayson County is in the Paris District. The budgetary priorities in the Paris District may not be the same as those in the Dallas District.

As to those overbuilt stretches of pavement, They tend to need maintenance before they are ever used. It does not make economic sense unless the use of the extra lanes in budgeted adn planned within a less than 5-year span. (Bridges MAY be an exception).

[BJ59]

When they re-built the segment of US-75 between the FM-375 interchange and Shepherd Road near the TI factory TX DOT made some odd choices. The resulting 4-lane highway segment ended up looking like an Oklahoma turnpike with the opposing roadways joined together and separated by a Jersey barrier. And why did they build it with just 4 lanes? This is a major highway in the DFW region. They could have build it in a 3x3 configuration or at least put down the pavement and stripe it temporarily as 2x2 until other segments can be upgraded.

As for declining standards (or "cheaping out"), I would imagine the absurdly high inflation rate of road building costs is a factor.

We tend to think of TxDOT as a single entity. Functionally it is 25 regional agencies with oversight from the central agency. Grayson County is in the Paris District. The budgetary priorities in the Paris District may not be the same as those in the Dallas District.

As to those overbuilt stretches of pavement, They tend to need maintenance before they are ever used. It does not make economic sense unless the use of the extra lanes in budgeted adn planned within a less than 5-year span.

I agree. The Paris district is probably considered a rural district and therefore receives less funding from the central agency due to a lower population. The Dallas district is a major metro area and therefore receives more funding, which would allow them to spend more on building a higher quality US-75 than the Paris district.

Another example of districts making more/less quality roads is I-45 on the Navarro/Freestone County Line. Dallas District maintains Navarro County but in Freestone County, it switches to Bryan District. See in the link how Dallas' I-45 is concrete and has 3 lanes in each direction, while Bryan's I-45 is asphalt and only has 2 lanes in each direction.

https://www.google.com/maps/@31.8735817,-96.3393097,3a,49y,322.92h,86.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAy64zdskaxoRvO5cOhKYGA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

[bwana39]

When they re-built the segment of US-75 between the FM-375 interchange and Shepherd Road near the TI factory TX DOT made some odd choices. The resulting 4-lane highway segment ended up looking like an Oklahoma turnpike with the opposing roadways joined together and separated by a Jersey barrier. And why did they build it with just 4 lanes? This is a major highway in the DFW region. They could have build it in a 3x3 configuration or at least put down the pavement and stripe it temporarily as 2x2 until other segments can be upgraded.

As for declining standards (or "cheaping out"), I would imagine the absurdly high inflation rate of road building costs is a factor.

We tend to think of TxDOT as a single entity. Functionally it is 25 regional agencies with oversight from the central agency. Grayson County is in the Paris District. The budgetary priorities in the Paris District may not be the same as those in the Dallas District.

As to those overbuilt stretches of pavement, They tend to need maintenance before they are ever used. It does not make economic sense unless the use of the extra lanes in budgeted adn planned within a less than 5-year span.

I agree. The Paris district is probably considered a rural district and therefore receives less funding from the central agency due to a lower population. The Dallas district is a major metro area and therefore receives more funding, which would allow them to spend more on building a higher quality US-75 than the Paris district.

Another example of districts making more/less quality roads is I-45 on the Navarro/Freestone County Line. Dallas District maintains Navarro County but in Freestone County, it switches to Bryan District. See in the link how Dallas' I-45 is concrete and has 3 lanes in each direction, while Bryan's I-45 is asphalt and only has 2 lanes in each direction.

https://www.google.com/maps/@31.8735817,-96.3393097,3a,49y,322.92h,86.64t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAy64zdskaxoRvO5cOhKYGA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu

At very least the differences between Navarro and Freestone county at least suggest a difference in the upgrade schedules. The surfaces asphalt may be a cycle difference as opposed to an original construction difference.  Here is how the cycle works. Build the road from foundation up. This is mostly, if not entirely done with concrete. It is not uncommon to use the surface of that concrete for the driving surface for a decade or longer. The first repair cycle is repair broken or failing concrete as needed. In the same maintenance process they will mill it to be completely level and mostly smooth. They then will overlay it with asphalt. They will repeat this process several times during the lifespan of the roadway base. At some point (generally from 15 -40 years later) they will redo the entire roadway all the way to the ground again, mostly one lane at a time.  On the other hand, when the expansion to 3x3 will happen is primarily up to the folks at the Bryan TxDot office.

[Bobby5280]

As much as the Dallas-Fort Worth metro has grown over the past 30 years, it's difficult for me to not consider towns like Sherman & Denison as part of the Metroplex now. At this point towns like that (as well as Gainesville, Decatur, Greenville, etc) are at least "exhurbs" of DFW. Sherman has a couple of its own broadcast TV stations. Still, the rural, green spaces between Sherman and McKinney are filling in with development.

It has been close to 20 years since they upgraded that 11.5 mile segment of US-75. Now they really need to add an outboard lane on each roadway. They could have justified a 3x3 arrangement 20 years ago with all the commercial trucks using that corridor. Budgetary constraints had to be why it was built in a 2x2 manner. Some portions look like they won't have to do much grading work to make it 3x3. There is a greater amount of down-slope outside the right shoulders elsewhere. The bridges carrying the US-75 main lanes over other intersections don't look wide enough for a 3x3 configuration including the inner and outer shoulders.

[MaxConcrete]

This is the final section in Collin County to be widened, it will be 3x3. It is 2.4 miles long to the Grayson County line.

The winning bid is $88 million, 17% below the estimate.

County:   COLLIN   Let Date:   01/04/24
Type:   WIDEN TO 6 LANE DIVIDED FREEWAY   Seq No:   3001
Time:   0 X   Project ID:   F 2024(691)
Highway:   US 75   Contract #:   01243001
Length:   0.000   CCSJ:   0047-14-053
Limits:   
From:   NORTH OF CR 370   Check:   $100,000
To:   CR 375 (GRAYSON COUNTY LINE)   Misc Cost:   
Estimate   $106,215,457.89   % Over/Under   Company
Bidder 1   $88,035,840.22   -17.12%   MARIO SINACOLA & SONS EXCAVATING, INC.
Bidder 2   $89,276,453.48   -15.95%   ZACHRY CONSTRUCTION CORPORATION
Bidder 3   $93,123,980.66   -12.33%   HARPER BROTHERS CONSTRUCTION LLC
Bidder 4   $99,424,812.84   -6.39%   SEMA CONSTRUCTION, INC.
Bidder 5   $100,008,865.25   -5.84%   FLATIRON CONSTRUCTORS, INC.
Bidder 6   $104,726,749.99   -1.40%   WEBBER, LLC

[splashflash]

The Texas Department of Transportation released its updated construction plans on January 1, stating this new part of the project will be building main lanes, bridges, and retaining walls. Watch for daytime lane closures and heavier traffic in both directions of US 75 beginning at Travis Street.

https://www.kten.com/story/50295400/new-construction-and-traffic-patterns-on-us-75
https://www.txdot.gov/projects/projects-studies/paris/us75-project.html

[BJ59]

Wouldn't it make sense to upgrade I-35 north of Denton before expanding US-75? It seems like there would be way more traffic using I-35

[Bobby5280]

Wouldn't it make sense to upgrade I-35 north of Denton before expanding US-75? It seems like there would be way more traffic using I-35

I-35 does have a higher AADT count at the Red River than US-75 (roughly 50,000 on I-35 versus 30,000 on US-75). But that's not telling the whole story. If you look at the TX DOT TPP District Traffic Web Viewer you'll see some pretty big spikes on both highways.

One thing about the US-75 corridor, more of the DFW metro is growing in that general direction (toward Sherman and Denison). That's one reason why the Dallas North Tollway and Grayson County Tollway routes are planned the way they are. US-75 going into Oklahoma carries a great deal of commercial truck traffic headed for the connection to I-44 in Big Cabin (to bypass the OKC and Tulsa metros).

The DFW metro has close to 8 million people. BOTH the I-35 and US-75 corridors need to be widened between the metroplex and Red River. One corridor shouldn't be widened at the expense of the other.

[I-35]

Wouldn't it make sense to upgrade I-35 north of Denton before expanding US-75? It seems like there would be way more traffic using I-35

Construction work is already underway in Cooke County north of Denton to widen to a 3x3 configuration, which will extend up through Gainesville with new bridges across the Red River.  I-35 is also being widened in southern Oklahoma to 3x3, inching up towards Marietta.

That said, and it's purely fantasy, there ought to be some people in Cooke County working to get a spur from the Dallas North Tollway as a reliever for I-35 and access to/from growing towns along US-377.  Living in Dallas County, if I want to travel towards OKC, there aren't good alternatives to using I-35E/I-35, despite most of the growth of DFW now occurring in the area between Denton and McKinney along US-380.

[sprjus4]

The ball is now in Oklahoma's court... widening I-35 and upgrading US-75 to interstate standards.

[CoreySamson]

The ball is now in Oklahoma's court... widening I-35 and upgrading US-75 to interstate standards.

From what I saw on my drive through there yesterday, OkDOT just opened a new section of US 75 in Calera and Durant that looks awfully close to Interstate standards. They are working on it, albeit slowly.

[Road Hog]

I think just getting it to US 70 in Durant is all it'll take to get I-45 designated across the river. Once Sherman and that little stretch north of Anna are finished, it should be doable up to US 69 right up by the river at least. The rest are just tweaks.

Oklahoma, Durant, and the Choctaw Nation collectively should all be welcoming their new interstate overlords.

[sprjus4]

While I don't disagree, are there any actual official plans to extend Interstate 45 into Oklahoma, or is this more roadgeek assumption like I-2 extending west that isn't official?

[Bobby5280]

The new Interstate-quality section of US-75 near Choctaw Casino is pretty decent. That casino-hotel resort has been expanding quite aggressively in recent years (maybe to try keeping up with WinStar over in Thackerville). Even with that new segment of highway completed there will still be at-grade intersections and other issues to fix just North of the Red River.

So far, the only completed 3x3 section of I-35 in Oklahoma to the South of the OKC metro is the section North of the Red River leading up to the WinStar complex. It drops to 2x2 after that and doesn't widen to 3x3 until reaching the exit Riverwind Casino just South of Norman.

That said, and it's purely fantasy, there ought to be some people in Cooke County working to get a spur from the Dallas North Tollway as a reliever for I-35 and access to/from growing towns along US-377.  Living in Dallas County, if I want to travel towards OKC, there aren't good alternatives to using I-35E/I-35, despite most of the growth of DFW now occurring in the area between Denton and McKinney along US-380.

I wouldn't expect ODOT and/or the OK state government to do much in that regard. Towns along US-377 in OK such as Madill would need to grow quite a bit to convince lawmakers to 4-lane US-377 North of the Red River. It's a 2-lane road South of the Red River. Highways in OK between I-35 and US-75 are very NOT direct. I couldn't tolerate driving on any of those paths from the Red River up to OKC. I think the better bet is pooling resources into I-35.

[The Ghostbuster]

For US 69/75 to ever become an Interstate, the corridor would have to be converted to freeway standards well beyond Exit 26, likely as far as Interstate 40. Of course this is theoretical since no official movements have been made to extend Interstate 45.

[Bobby5280]

Regardless if it is signed as an Interstate highway or not, I fully expect US-69/75 to be upgraded to Interstate standards from the Red River up to US-70 in Durant. That's the bare minimum. Still, the sub-standard shoulders and ramps on the freeway section going thru Colbert will have to be upgraded. The at grade intersections between Colbert and Calera need to be remedied.

The US-69/75 freeway in Durant (and going up to Caddo) might need some work to comply with Interstate standards.

US-69/75 North of Caddo up to the South outskirts of Tushka would be an easy upgrade since there is already enough ROW available.

As we've said before, the segment from Tushka up thru Atoka and Stringtown is a serious roadblock. But those parts of Oklahoma aren't exactly gaining population.

There are some slow, on-going efforts to convert US-69/75 in McAlester to Interstate standards. The Army Ammunition Plant nearby in Savanna needs a better entrance.

Probably the easiest section of US-69 to upgrade is the segment between McAlester and I-40. North of McAlester nearly all of it is limited access. Some exits might need better ramps, but I think that's about all that is needed.

Really, if there was a serious effort to extend I-45 into Oklahoma it's possible there could be two separate signed segments. One would go from the Red River to Durant (and maybe farther North). The other would extend from I-40 in Checotah down to McAlester. ODOT could slowly chip away at the stuff between Tushka and McAlester.

[rte66man]

Regardless if it is signed as an Interstate highway or not, I fully expect US-69/75 to be upgraded to Interstate standards from the Red River up to US-70 in Durant. That's the bare minimum. Still, the sub-standard shoulders and ramps on the freeway section going thru Colbert will have to be upgraded. The at grade intersections between Colbert and Calera need to be remedied.

Last time I counted, there were 10 at-grade intersections between the south end of Calera and the Red River. RoW acquisition is already on the 8-Year plan.

There are some slow, on-going efforts to convert US-69/75 in McAlester to Interstate standards. The Army Ammunition Plant nearby in Savanna needs a better entrance.

All are beginning in the next 5-8 years.

[bwana39]

Regardless if it is signed as an Interstate highway or not, I fully expect US-69/75 to be upgraded to Interstate standards from the Red River up to US-70 in Durant.

I need to point out that like the argument over LA-3132 in Shreveport being signed as a IH, there is actually more differences between the requirements for an Interstate and a generic controlled access freeway than just properly paved shoulders.

[Bobby5280]

I know there are more differences than just shoulder widths. Some of the ramp designs on the US-69/75 freeway just North of the Red River are badly outdated. The first exit at Franklin Drive is one example. ODOT did some modifications to the next exit with OK-91 (such as replacing a tight cloverleaf ramp with a straight ramp design). There is some other work going on in the Colbert area. Still, the non-freeway gap between Colbert and Calera will remain for the time being.