Erroneous road signs

[kphoger]

The hyphen isn't even necessary in the first place since the names are on a separate line.

But Bloomington—Normal is commonly referred to as such.  So, in another sense, it is one place name.

[PHLBOS]

I think this one takes the cake.https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Valley+Forge,+PA&hl=en&ll=40.089662,-75.41683&spn=0.008339,0.021136&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=35.082817,86.572266&oq=valley+f&hnear=Valley+Forge,+Schuylkill,+Chester,+Pennsylvania&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=40.089708,-75.416685&panoid=hOnXfNKOlP7crC0FAfcHlg&cbp=12,90,,0,0

I do not know if it was posted already or not, but I do not think anything could be more wrong than what the pull through for the PA Turnpike uses at Valley Forge.

Steve's I-76 page has more info about that disastrous assembly.  The exit sign is a little messy but understandable, but the NJTP patch over I-276 is inexcusable.  What were they thinking?

I just passed through there yesterday on my way home from Pittsburgh.  The pull-through has been patched over with an overlay with a proper I-276 shield.  There is a supplemental sign in advance of it with the message "NJTP use East I-276," or something like it.

I was last on that stretch 2 to 3 weeks ago and never saw such a sign.  Does that mean PTC's finally going to right the wrong they made with that pull-through BGS back in the mid-90s?  Note: the older 70s(?) vintage BGS had the correct content.  I'm not sure whether or not the current BGS was first erected without the NJTP shield posted on the of the I-276 shield or not.  At the earliest, it could've been done before the sign was erected but after it was fully fabricated.

What I think is also wrong with the sign is the fact there is a I-476 shield on the I-76 exit sign.  It is true that I-76 does lead to I-476, but if you are going north on 476 toward Allentown it the best way is to stay on the turnpike to the Mid County Interchange.

That sign is clear example of what NOT to do. 

As stated in Steve's commentary (tid-bit courtesy of yours-truly BTW), the 476 shields first appeared on those BGS in late '91/early '92 prior to the Blue Route connecting to the NE Extension (which was still known as PA 9 until a few years after the connection was finally completed in late '92/early '93).

In the wake of the Blue Route finally connecting the NE Extension and the latter receiving the I-476 designation as well; those I-76 East BGS' should've had the 476 shields removed (especially along I-276 Westbound) and supplemental BGS' along the eastbound Turnpike (I-76 leg) should've been erected directing those needing to get on I-476 in the follwoing manner (somebody can feel free to use the sign software to create):

TO 476

Plymouth Mtg.
Allentown

USE 276

Conshohocken
Chester

USE 76

The above could be done as one BGS panel erected on an overhead gantry with the TO 476 message centered on top with the separate messages placed next to each other with a white border divider placed in the middle.

Also, US 422 shields should also be placed on the main Exit BGS next to the US 202 shields.

Another PTC BGS faux-pas is at the Norristown interchange and has been there since the mid-1990s.  Once one clears the toll plaza (to get on I-276), the westbound BGS reads 76 WEST Harrisburg which is not technically correct.  It should read as 276 WEST Harrisburg or 276 WEST TO 76 Harrisburg.  IIRC, the old 60s-era button-copy BGS read WEST 276 TO 76 Harrisburg Pittsburg Ohio.

To their credit, PennDOT recently corrected their idiotic listing of Philadelphia as a control destination for I-276 East BGS' along I-476 North.  A brand new BGS now lists (going by memory here) both New Jersey Turnpike and New York for I-276 East destinations.

[akotchi]

I think this one takes the cake.https://maps.google.com/maps?q=Valley+Forge,+PA&hl=en&ll=40.089662,-75.41683&spn=0.008339,0.021136&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=35.082817,86.572266&oq=valley+f&hnear=Valley+Forge,+Schuylkill,+Chester,+Pennsylvania&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=40.089708,-75.416685&panoid=hOnXfNKOlP7crC0FAfcHlg&cbp=12,90,,0,0

I do not know if it was posted already or not, but I do not think anything could be more wrong than what the pull through for the PA Turnpike uses at Valley Forge.

Steve's I-76 page has more info about that disastrous assembly.  The exit sign is a little messy but understandable, but the NJTP patch over I-276 is inexcusable.  What were they thinking?

I just passed through there yesterday on my way home from Pittsburgh.  The pull-through has been patched over with an overlay with a proper I-276 shield.  There is a supplemental sign in advance of it with the message "NJTP use East I-276," or something like it.

I was last on that stretch 2 to 3 weeks ago and never saw such a sign.  Does that mean PTC's finally going to right the wrong they made with that pull-through BGS back in the mid-90s?  Note: the older 70s(?) vintage BGS had the correct content.  I'm not sure whether or not the current BGS was first erected without the NJTP shield posted on the of the I-276 shield or not.  At the earliest, it could've been done before the sign was erected but after it was fully fabricated.

What I think is also wrong with the sign is the fact there is a I-476 shield on the I-76 exit sign.  It is true that I-76 does lead to I-476, but if you are going north on 476 toward Allentown it the best way is to stay on the turnpike to the Mid County Interchange.

That sign is clear example of what NOT to do. 

As stated in Steve's commentary (tid-bit courtesy of yours-truly BTW), the 476 shields first appeared on those BGS in late '91/early '92 prior to the Blue Route connecting to the NE Extension (which was still known as PA 9 until a few years after the connection was finally completed in late '92/early '93).

In the wake of the Blue Route finally connecting the NE Extension and the latter receiving the I-476 designation as well; those I-76 East BGS' should've had the 476 shields removed (especially along I-276 Westbound) and supplemental BGS' along the eastbound Turnpike (I-76 leg) should've been erected directing those needing to get on I-476 in the follwoing manner (somebody can feel free to use the sign software to create):

TO 476

Plymouth Mtg.
Allentown

USE 276

Conshohocken
Chester

USE 76

The above could be done as one BGS panel erected on an overhead gantry with the TO 476 message centered on top with the separate messages placed next to each other with a white border divider placed in the middle.

Also, US 422 shields should also be placed on the main Exit BGS next to the US 202 shields.

Another PTC BGS faux-pas is at the Norristown interchange and has been there since the mid-1990s.  Once one clears the toll plaza (to get on I-276), the westbound BGS reads 76 WEST Harrisburg which is not technically correct.  It should read as 276 WEST Harrisburg or 276 WEST TO 76 Harrisburg.  IIRC, the old 60s-era button-copy BGS read WEST 276 TO 76 Harrisburg Pittsburg Ohio.

To their credit, PennDOT recently corrected their idiotic listing of Philadelphia as a control destination for I-276 East BGS' along I-476 North.  A brand new BGS now lists (going by memory here) both New Jersey Turnpike and New York for I-276 East destinations.

Considering that the Norristown interchange provides access to I-476 south after the toll plaza (for eastbound users), I don't see how I-476 needs to appear on the Valley Forge guide signs at all, in either direction.  I would second the use of U.S. 422 shields in their place.

I get on the Turnpike at Norristown occasionally and have not paid attention to the guide sign error . . . Looking at a Streeview image from 2009, the ramp to westbound has a West/276 confirmation assembly after the BGS error!

Also of note on the BGS you refer to on I-476 North is that the Turnpike shield had East over it, when both I-276 East and I-476 North are part of the Turnpike system.  Not sure if that was also resolved . . .

I will try to get pictures of the new supplemental sign next time I am out that way.

[PHLBOS]

Also of note on the BGS you refer to on I-476 North is that the Turnpike shield had East over it, when both I-276 East and I-476 North are part of the Turnpike system.  Not sure if that was also resolved . . .

That sign was totally replaced with new signs that I don't believe shows any PA Turnpike shield.

The new sign shows both I-276 & 476 shields and lists Allentown along with the fore-mentioned 276 East control destinations.

Considering that the Norristown interchange provides access to I-476 south after the toll plaza (for eastbound users), I don't see how I-476 needs to appear on the Valley Forge guide signs at all, in either direction.

Supplemental signage letting those know that one can get to I-476's more southerly destinations via I-76 (the Schuylkill Expressway) from the Eastbound Turnpike even with the Blue Route-NE Extension link long since completed still has some merit.  Also, keep in mind that the Turnpike is tolled (with very expensive toll rates even w/EZ-Pass discounts might I add) and the Schuylkill Expressway (I-76 East of Valley Forge) is not. 

That said, why on earth would one heading to Delaware County (as an example) pay an extra $1.33-1.60 in tolls to head about 7 miles east to the Norristown interchange to pick up I-476 South unless there was a traffic jam and/or vehicle pileup along I-76 between I-276 and I-476?

If one looks at a map of the area showing I-76-276-476, the region bounded by those roads resemble an elongated triangle w/I-476 between 76 & 276 heading in a northeast-southwesterly direction.  An Delaware County-bound driver along the eastbound Turnpike using Norristown to get on 476 South is somewhat back-tracking.

Not to mention the fact that I-476 South signage along the eastbound I-276 is restricted to one supplemental BGS as opposed to the main BGS exit signs.

Again, the PTC signed this whole area in a rather bass-ackward manner these last 20+ years.

[akotchi]

PhlBos, I agree with everything you have said.  What I failed to suggest earlier (facetiously, perhaps) is that PTC might have preferred to sign it that way to squeeze some additional toll revenue out of those unaware of the highway network in this area.

Brings up another question . . . why would there be that slip ramp to I-476 South at the Norristown toll plaza if access is already provided via Exit 20 (WB) and Exit 326 (EB)?  Was this ramp completed prior to completion of Mid-County connection?  I don't remember the order of construction.

[kphoger]

I've seen New Mexico do this with that sign on numerous occasions to indicate a lane is beginning

Is that sign not approved for use?  I've seen it in other countries' list of highway signs so didn't realize we weren't supposed to use it here.

Here's a Mexican example from GMSV:

[Duke87]

And then you have the situations where the sign is simply hung upside down:

[PHLBOS]

Brings up another question . . . why would there be that slip ramp to I-476 South at the Norristown toll plaza if access is already provided via Exit 20 (WB) and Exit 326 (EB)?  Was this ramp completed prior to completion of Mid-County connection?  I don't remember the order of construction.

Much of the Norristown interchange and toll plaza predates the Mid-County plaza.  The ramp to I-476 south from the Norristown interchange I believe predates the completion of Mid-County and Blue Route/NE Extension link.

The reasoning for not having a direct ramp from I-276 East to I-476 South is due to the close proximity of the Norristown and Mid-County interchanges.  And again, while eastbounders heading to Delaware County will use Valley Forge; those heading to Plymouth Meeting will use Norristown.

The ramp to I-476 South at the Norristown interchange still has a reason to exist IMHO.

[apeman33]

And then you have the situations where the sign is simply hung upside down:

That seems to make no sense at all. "MERGE AHEAD" but the diamond indicates that the road widens. 

[NE2]

And then you have the situations where the sign is simply hung upside down:

That seems to make no sense at all. "MERGE AHEAD" but the diamond indicates that the road widens. 

[Roadgeek Adam]

So lets see, I've  seen NJ 1, NJ 202, NJ 206, NJ 130 thus far.

As of today, this can join it:



(Galloway Township, New Jersey)

[The High Plains Traveler]

've seen New Mexico do this with that sign on numerous occasions to indicate a lane is beginning

Is that sign not approved for use?  I've seen it in other countries' list of highway signs so didn't realize we weren't supposed to use it here.

Here's a Mexican example from GMSV:

Widening to four lanes warrants an overhead sign?

[PHLBOS]

PA Turnpike BGS UPDATE:

While driving from Valley Forge (I-76) to Willow Grove (PA 611) this past Saturday evening, I noticed a BGS message change along the westbound Turnpike (I-276).  The BGS panels for the Valley Forge exit from the westbound direction have been stripped of I-476 shields and US 422 shields are now in their place.  Not sure whether the exits signs in the eastbound direction sport this change or not.

Somebody on the PTC must've either read this thread or Steve's site. 

However, in my return travels from Hatboro; I noticed another PennDOT (or PTC) BGS boo-boo.  The BGS along PA 611 South for the PA Turnpike (I-276) entrance lists Philadelphia as its eastbound(?) control destination.  Typically, these signs (along with the BGS past the toll plaza) list New Jersey as the eastbound control destination.

Theoretically, one can get to Philly from there by either using the eastbound (to US 1) or westbound (to PA 309 or I-476) Turnpike as well as staying on southbound PA 611 (not advisable).

Also of note on the BGS you refer to on I-476 North is that the Turnpike shield had East over it, when both I-276 East and I-476 North are part of the Turnpike system.  Not sure if that was also resolved . . .

While driving home that Saturday night along I-476 south, I quickly looked back at the new sign (which is located about a mile south of the now-removed old ones); there is indeed a PA Turnpike shield and it is located next to the I-276 shield and the below the right-half of the "EAST" cardinal.

The BGS reads:

NORTH 476 EAST 276 *PA Turnpike shield*
Allentown
N.J. Tpke. - New York

I would just re-arranged the shields and cardinals so that the PA Turnpike shield is located between the 476 and 276 shields and the respective "NORTH" and "EAST" cardinals.

If the use of New Jersey as a control destination for eastbound I-276 is no longer being allowed, the BGS along PA 611 should simply use N.J. Tpke. and/or New York (as in the city) as opposed to ambiguous Philadelphia.

[Takumi]

The exit tab? Yeah, wrong side. Same way southbound.


Outside M&T Bank Stadium beside MD 295.

[Alps]

So lets see, I've  seen NJ 1, NJ 202, NJ 206, NJ 130 thus far.

As of today, this can join it:



(Galloway Township, New Jersey)

Tuckerton's had an NJ 9 for years - actually may have been fixed since I posted it on my site, which NJDOT does read. Also, NJ 30 and NJ 40 are definitely out there - 40 by the western end, 30 by the eastern end. 322, not sure I've ever seen, or 9W (possibly due to length/lack of intersecting roads).

[Takumi]

It's Richmond, it's a 33...you know what that means.

[formulanone]

It's Richmond, it's a 33...you know what that means.

...Crack open a Rolling Rock? 

[Takumi]

I think their sign department has had more than a few sometimes

[agentsteel53]

And since when is that the proper way to hyphenate?

19
-70

[Kacie Jane]

And since when is that the proper way to hyphenate?

19
-70

Made me lolz.

[bassoon1986]

I'm not sure if this counts as erroneous; native Texans help me here. Is Beltway 8 synonymous with Loop 8 in Houston? Or is this a remnant/replica sign of before it was called a beltway?


-- Fixed img code. -rmf67

[bassoon1986]

TxDOT's website did say this...



Minute Order 062581, dated 07/31/1969; Adm. Cir. 062-1969, dated 08/15/1969
No change in description.  (Harris County)  Designation changed from Loop to Beltway.

[Kacie Jane]

Seems to me the sign is erroneous then.  No way it was posted pre-1969.

[Road Hog]

All the Beltway signs I've ever seen are really old. TxDOT probably just signs beltways as loops nowadays, but Beltway 8 is the only Texas state one I know about and I admittedly don't get to Houston that often.

[PHLBOS]

A new one to add for Somers Point, NJ along NJ 52.  Southbound approach trailblazer signs for the County Route 559 junction/intersection have 558 on the County shields.  Oops!