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Is the Clinched Highway Mapping site still active?

Started by 1995hoo, February 18, 2015, 01:57:06 PM

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Bickendan

I'm sure Spain and Portugal will need some tweaking, but they're also datasets that will be able to migrate over without having to redo the entire set. A-7, AP-7 and E15 still haunt me.


IMGoph

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on March 25, 2015, 04:40:33 PM

And remember, we have to possibly deal with the states that Tim did all the data having to be removed.  For those states, Interstate/US Highways top priority.  Then redoing the state highways as time allows.

Is there a chance he'd "take his ball and go home" with all of this? For all we know, based on lack of communication, he doesn't exist anymore.

english si

Quote from: Bickendan on March 26, 2015, 02:07:58 PMA-7, AP-7 and E15 still haunt me.
That corridor (and Spain in general) is an absolute mess when it comes to simple road numbering (and I remember explaining why the exit numbering is a total mess. Catalonia still has sequential from the north east, rather than distance-based from the south west).

There's a signed E15 spur and IIRC, there's a case for it being a full on (inconsistantly) signed loop, with the mainline not very consistantly signed either.

rickmastfan67

Quote from: IMGoph on March 26, 2015, 06:04:58 PM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on March 25, 2015, 04:40:33 PM

And remember, we have to possibly deal with the states that Tim did all the data having to be removed.  For those states, Interstate/US Highways top priority.  Then redoing the state highways as time allows.

Is there a chance he'd "take his ball and go home" with all of this? For all we know, based on lack of communication, he doesn't exist anymore.

We have no idea.  I know for sure that PA would have to be redone completely since he was in control of that state from the start.

vdeane

Seems like right now it might be a good idea to start collecting together data that can be re-used somewhere (github?) and work out a plan of who/when/etc. for re-creating data along with continuing the maps/stats work (unless we're still waiting for one last chance for Tim to say he's alive?).
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Thing 342

#155
Quote from: vdeane on March 26, 2015, 09:14:21 PM
Seems like right now it might be a good idea to start collecting together data that can be re-used somewhere (github?) and work out a plan of who/when/etc. for re-creating data along with continuing the maps/stats work (unless we're still waiting for one last chance for Tim to say he's alive?).
Github would be good, especially for version management. If someone was busy realigning a system but didn't want to risk breaking users' existing data, they could create a separate branch and work within it. Having the data be open-source would also prevent the current situation (major contributor goes AWOL and takes all his or her data with them) from happening again.

I've been working on a proof-of-concept highway browser, but haven't gotten very far simply due to a lack of access to map data (and schoolwork).

Jim

Quote from: vdeane on March 26, 2015, 09:14:21 PM
Seems like right now it might be a good idea to start collecting together data that can be re-used somewhere (github?) and work out a plan of who/when/etc. for re-creating data along with continuing the maps/stats work (unless we're still waiting for one last chance for Tim to say he's alive?).

Yes, definitely.  It's time.  I'm thinking these would be good steps to take now:

1) Set up a github account where we will collect data, code, etc.  I have a lot of experience with version control, but only the basics with github.  I am sure it would provide the appropriate mechanisms to allow anyone to look at and clone copies the code and data, and we could have a trusted set of users (that I hope would grow over time) who can approve changes back to the primary branch.  I think github's mechanisms could also replace much of the manual discussion we had in the CHM forum about updates, etc.  Unless someone else experience with this and really would like to take the github lead, I'm willing to do so. It's something I want to need

2) Set up a discussion board.  This is something I could probably set up in my hostmonster account or maybe it's more appropriate to use some free service.  There might be some disagreement about this next point, but I think the entire forum should be public.  The CHM forum's split between the collaborator-only sections and the public sections had some advantages, but I don't see the real need for any secrecy here.

3) Set up one or more development/staging servers where we can try out the various pieces.  This is another place my hostmonster account could work, but I think there are a number of good options here.

4) Set up the production server.  This is not urgent since we won't be there for a while.

In all aspects of the project, there need to be multiple people who can do everything.
Photos I post are my own unless otherwise noted.
Signs: https://www.teresco.org/pics/signs/
Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?u=terescoj
Counties: http://www.mob-rule.com/user/terescoj
Twitter @JimTeresco (roads, travel, skiing, weather, sports)

rickmastfan67

Quote from: Jim on March 26, 2015, 11:18:01 PM
2) Set up a discussion board.  This is something I could probably set up in my hostmonster account or maybe it's more appropriate to use some free service.  There might be some disagreement about this next point, but I think the entire forum should be public.  The CHM forum's split between the collaborator-only sections and the public sections had some advantages, but I don't see the real need for any secrecy here.

I would use the SMF software (same type here @ AARoads) for the forums.  Easy to work with.  Especially with splitting/merging threads when needed (we can't merge threads on the current CHM forum).  As for the collaborator forums, yeah, I have no problems with them being visible to the public, just not allowing the public to post in them. ;)

froggie

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on March 25, 2015, 04:40:33 PM
Quote from: Jim on March 25, 2015, 09:02:11 AM
Quote from: yakra on March 24, 2015, 11:49:33 PMI think the first version of a new site to go online should have the same data, the same points and labels, as the existing site as it is now.

I hate to see all of the potential fixes and additions to the data have to wait, but I do think it makes a lot of sense to wait for data updates until a at least a skeleton of a new system is live and people can see their travels and stats against the current data.

And remember, we have to possibly deal with the states that Tim did all the data having to be removed.  For those states, Interstate/US Highways top priority.  Then redoing the state highways as time allows.

Jumping in a little late on this part...

Given Tim's insistence on using open/public data to build the route datasets, I think this is far less of a problem than you're anticipating it being.  It could be argued that, given the public data source, the route datasets themselves are also open data.

Bickendan

Quote from: rickmastfan67 on March 26, 2015, 11:37:17 PM
Quote from: Jim on March 26, 2015, 11:18:01 PM
2) Set up a discussion board.  This is something I could probably set up in my hostmonster account or maybe it's more appropriate to use some free service.  There might be some disagreement about this next point, but I think the entire forum should be public.  The CHM forum's split between the collaborator-only sections and the public sections had some advantages, but I don't see the real need for any secrecy here.

I would use the SMF software (same type here @ AARoads) for the forums.  Easy to work with.  Especially with splitting/merging threads when needed (we can't merge threads on the current CHM forum).  As for the collaborator forums, yeah, I have no problems with them being visible to the public, just not allowing the public to post in them. ;)
That's largely in part because CHM's forum is phpBB2, which is pretty damn obsolete now.
I have a mothballed phpBB3 forum we could use, but as it hasn't been updated for years now, it's an offer of last resort. Is setting up a section of this board dedicated to CHM an option worth exploring?

Jim

Quote from: Bickendan on March 27, 2015, 11:00:35 AMThat's largely in part because CHM's forum is phpBB2, which is pretty damn obsolete now.
I have a mothballed phpBB3 forum we could use, but as it hasn't been updated for years now, it's an offer of last resort. Is setting up a section of this board dedicated to CHM an option worth exploring?

If the AARoads admins are willing, I think having a dedicated section here might be a good option.
Photos I post are my own unless otherwise noted.
Signs: https://www.teresco.org/pics/signs/
Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?u=terescoj
Counties: http://www.mob-rule.com/user/terescoj
Twitter @JimTeresco (roads, travel, skiing, weather, sports)

1995hoo

Quote from: froggie on March 27, 2015, 08:10:30 AM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on March 25, 2015, 04:40:33 PM
Quote from: Jim on March 25, 2015, 09:02:11 AM
Quote from: yakra on March 24, 2015, 11:49:33 PMI think the first version of a new site to go online should have the same data, the same points and labels, as the existing site as it is now.

I hate to see all of the potential fixes and additions to the data have to wait, but I do think it makes a lot of sense to wait for data updates until a at least a skeleton of a new system is live and people can see their travels and stats against the current data.

And remember, we have to possibly deal with the states that Tim did all the data having to be removed.  For those states, Interstate/US Highways top priority.  Then redoing the state highways as time allows.

Jumping in a little late on this part...

Given Tim's insistence on using open/public data to build the route datasets, I think this is far less of a problem than you're anticipating it being.  It could be argued that, given the public data source, the route datasets themselves are also open data.


Since I have never had any involvement in putting that site together I do not know whether this is at all helpful, but I note the "sources and links" page on that site says a lot of material is drawn from OSM and has a link to the open license (similar to the default one used when you upload a picture to Wikipedia).

http://cmap.m-plex.com/docs/sources.php
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

vdeane

Quote from: froggie on March 27, 2015, 08:10:30 AM
Quote from: rickmastfan67 on March 25, 2015, 04:40:33 PM
Quote from: Jim on March 25, 2015, 09:02:11 AM
Quote from: yakra on March 24, 2015, 11:49:33 PMI think the first version of a new site to go online should have the same data, the same points and labels, as the existing site as it is now.

I hate to see all of the potential fixes and additions to the data have to wait, but I do think it makes a lot of sense to wait for data updates until a at least a skeleton of a new system is live and people can see their travels and stats against the current data.

And remember, we have to possibly deal with the states that Tim did all the data having to be removed.  For those states, Interstate/US Highways top priority.  Then redoing the state highways as time allows.

Jumping in a little late on this part...

Given Tim's insistence on using open/public data to build the route datasets, I think this is far less of a problem than you're anticipating it being.  It could be argued that, given the public data source, the route datasets themselves are also open data.

Good point, especially since recreations aren't likely to look much, if any, different.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

Bickendan

Quote from: Jim on March 27, 2015, 11:08:25 AM
Quote from: Bickendan on March 27, 2015, 11:00:35 AMThat's largely in part because CHM's forum is phpBB2, which is pretty damn obsolete now.
I have a mothballed phpBB3 forum we could use, but as it hasn't been updated for years now, it's an offer of last resort. Is setting up a section of this board dedicated to CHM an option worth exploring?

If the AARoads admins are willing, I think having a dedicated section here might be a good option.

Staff is willing. CHM discussion can migrate here to AARoads if needed.

Wadsteckel

This may be a bit early; but once a new site is set up, I'd be willing to offer my .list files and updates as part of a beta test if needed.  Given the constant new travels for me, I'm busy comparing my last update in November with where I've been driving up to now.  Starting to get confusing.

-Ed S.

oscar

#165
Quote from: Jim on March 26, 2015, 11:18:01 PM
Yes, definitely.  It's time.  I'm thinking these would be good steps to take now:

One suggestion to add to the list, if not done already:  Contacting present and past CHM collaborators (including people who've dropped out for whatever reason, perhaps including frustration with how CHM was managed), to gauge their interest in the new project, or at least their willingness to contribute whatever partial or complete route sets they've drafted.  Some of them might not be on the aaroads forum, or might be really inactive.  If any of them are really allergic to the aaroads forum for some reason, that might be a reason to put the new forum elsewhere, though I doubt that would be an issue. 

There's one collaborator in particular who's done a lot of work in the upper Midwest, and his participation (or at least permissions) might mean less work re-creating route files in his areas.  But I'm not sure there's programming talent in the people not yet heard from in this thread, which is the most immediate need.

I'm of course game, but the last programming I did was in the paper tape and punch card era of the 1970s, something I stopped doing to become a lawyer instead.  My contribution seems mainly my familiarity with the outer reaches of the U.S./Canada highway network, the route sets I assembled or updated in those areas, and a lot of travel pretty much everywhere else in North America (except Mexico and points south).
my Hot Springs and Highways pages, with links to my roads sites:
http://www.alaskaroads.com/home.html

Duke87

Quote from: froggie on March 27, 2015, 08:10:30 AM
Given Tim's insistence on using open/public data to build the route datasets, I think this is far less of a problem than you're anticipating it being.  It could be argued that, given the public data source, the route datasets themselves are also open data.

A decent argument. It may be simplest to just scoop up all data as it exists and, if Tim resurfaces and objects to any of his stuff being used, then we can take it down and remake it ourselves.

As for creating a new subforum here for project discussion, I'd agree that is the best method simply since it would give it the most exposure. Perhaps an announcement could also be made on SABRE or any other discussion group where there might be a contingent of interested users.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

Jim

As we prepare to embark on this project and likely move discussion to a new section of this forum, what should the project be called?  "Clinched Highway Mapping" is nice, but was the name of the original project.  I haven't tried too hard to come up with anything, but here are a couple ideas:

- Travel Tracker
- Online Atlas Highlighter or some variation on that idea
- Map Your Travels

I'm sure others can come up with something great.
Photos I post are my own unless otherwise noted.
Signs: https://www.teresco.org/pics/signs/
Travel Mapping: https://travelmapping.net/user/?u=terescoj
Counties: http://www.mob-rule.com/user/terescoj
Twitter @JimTeresco (roads, travel, skiing, weather, sports)

rickmastfan67

- Clinching the World
- World Highway Clinching

As for a sub section, I'll create the section sometime tonight when I have finished other stuff that I need to do first.

NE2

pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

KG909

~Fuccboi

yakra

#171
PinCH. Stands for "PinCH is not CHM." :bigass:
Edit: Err, wait... Why not ClinCH, then? Or ClinCHM? Pronounced "Clinch'em"...
"Officer, I'm always careful to drive the speed limit no matter where I am and that's what I was doin'." Said "No, you weren't," she said, "Yes, I was." He said, "Madam, I just clocked you at 22 MPH," and she said "That's the speed limit," he said "No ma'am, that's the route numbah!"  - Gary Crocker

algorerhythms

Quote from: yakra on March 28, 2015, 02:32:34 AM
Edit: Err, wait... Why not ClinCH, then? Or ClinCHM? Pronounced "Clinch'em"...
Motto: "Gotta clinch 'em all"

froggie

Could just keep it simple, like "Highway Mapping" or "Travel Mapping".  The latter would be more appropriate if we ever delve into rail transit systems like a few have suggested.

Mapmikey




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