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ICC Intercounty Connector

Started by Alex, August 27, 2009, 12:06:04 AM

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Beltway

Quote from: froggie on November 14, 2011, 10:36:22 PM
If Konterra ever gets built, that would drive a not-insignificant chunk of the traffic forecast for the ICC.  And I'd place much more stock in Konterra getting built than in any possible extension of the ICC.  There's **BIG** money in Potomac that's against any new river bridge in that vicinity, and you have both the USDA Agricultural Research Center and the Patuxent Research Refuge blocking any extension to the east of the BW Pkwy.  As it is, the only way you could get it TO the BW Pkwy is by threading it through existing development along a power line ROW (which would necessitate relocating high-tension power lines).

That's too bad.  The people opposing the ICC and ICC extension are obstructionists, and need to cease and desist.  We desperately need more Potomac River crossings in the metro area.
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cpzilliacus

Quote from: froggie on November 14, 2011, 10:36:22 PM
If Konterra ever gets built, that would drive a not-insignificant chunk of the traffic forecast for the ICC.  And I'd place much more stock in Konterra getting built than in any possible extension of the ICC.  There's **BIG** money in Potomac that's against any new river bridge in that vicinity, and you have both the USDA Agricultural Research Center and the Patuxent Research Refuge blocking any extension to the east of the BW Pkwy.  As it is, the only way you could get it TO the BW Pkwy is by threading it through existing development along a power line ROW (which would necessitate relocating high-tension power lines).

A few thoughts:

(1) I believe that Konterra will eventually get built.  The Gould family, owners of the lands that make up Konterra do not owe any mortgage money to anyone else, so they can wait.

(2) Not just big money in Potomac. Ever heard of Virginia's Piedmont Environmental Council? The PEC was very involved in raising objections to the ICC, though it did not participate in the lawsuit in the U.S. District Court for the  District of Maryland.

(3) The BARC (USDA Beltsville Agricultural Research Center) was never enthused about the ICC, but the real objections back in the 1970's and 1980's were from the Fish and Wildlife Service's Patuxent River Research facility (staff from Fish and Wildlife were also opposed to the ICC that eventually was approved and built, but they were overruled).

(4) There are indeed PEPCo high-tension lines that (pretty closely) follow the old master-planned alignment of the ICC from U.S. 1 between Laurel and Beltsville all the way east and south to Upper Marlboro (there is some divergence south of U.S. 50).  That right-of-way carries four 230,000 volt AC circuits on two towers most of the way (there's a through section in Bowie where there are six circuits on three towers).  But those circuits could be undergrounded under an ICC (there are similar 230,000 volt circuits under the George Washington Memorial Parkway between Alexandria and the monumental core of D.C. which have operated for decades).  Other possibilities might be to convert those four 230,000 volt circuits to one 500,000 volt or 765,000 volt circuit (though I am not an electrical engineer and don't know what the cost or practical implications of that would be).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Alps


cpzilliacus

Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Prince George's County Fire Department public information officer's blog:  Firefighter/Medics Familiarize Themselves with MD Route 200

QuotePrince George's County Firefighters and Medics have had the opportunity over the past week to travel on a new highway to become familiar with the road and pre-plan their responses in the event of an emergency.   The Intercounty Connector (ICC) is scheduled to open to the public on or about November 22.  The ICC, Maryland Route 200, will link existing and proposed development areas between the I-270/I-370 and I-95/US 1 corridors within central and eastern Montgomery County and northwestern Prince George's County with a state-of-the-art, multi-modal east-west highway that limits access and accommodates the movement of passengers and goods.


QuotePrince George's County Firefighters and Medics have recently had the opportunity to tour and pre-plan the Prince George's County portion of of the ICC which is referred to as Contract "C."  This portion covers almost four miles of new, limited access highway with three interchanges, two of which are in Montgomery County; Route 29 and Briggs Chaney Road.  The third intersection is in Prince George's County at Interstate Route 95 which includes a sprawling area of long on/off ramps and a combination of elevated overpasses and underpasses.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

QuoteWashington Post: ICC neighbors report problems with cellphone service

Curiously, I am on a Verizon Wireless broadband connection right next to the ICC as I type this.  Working fine, at least at this location.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

WTOP Radio: I-270 to I-95 takes 20 min. on ICC

QuoteWTOP's Kristi King drove the stretch Tuesday morning, the first morning the toll road is fully open. Going the posted 55 mph speed limit, she clocked the Montgomery County to Prince George's County trip at well under a half hour.

QuoteWithout the ICC, getting from Gaithersburg to Laurel took 47 minutes.

QuoteThrough Dec. 4, you'll be able to travel the ICC without paying tolls.

QuoteThe toll you pay will depend on what time of day you use the ICC.

QuoteAfter that, E-ZPass will be required. Drivers who do not use E-ZPass will receive a bill by mail for 150 percent of the original toll.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

agentsteel53

Quote from: cpzilliacus on November 23, 2011, 02:02:32 PM
QuoteAfter that, E-ZPass will be required. Drivers who do not use E-ZPass will receive a bill by mail for 150 percent of the original toll.

that's actually reasonable.  is this information going to be posted?  I would presume that there will be a non-trivial minority of out-of-state drivers who a) lack EZ-Pass, b) would like to use that road.  if the 50% markup covers the extra administrative fees of paper billing, then I say advertise this fact.  

if not, and the markup that would cover this is reasonable, say a 100-150% markup at most, then increase the markup to that.  paying, say, $7 - and accepting the hassle of a written bill - for a $3 electronic toll would be something I'd consider given the alternates.  

(paying $125 fine for a $3 toll, as California threatens... not so much!)
live from sunny San Diego.

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jake@aaroads.com

cpzilliacus

#162
TOLLROADSnews: Celebration in Maryland as new pike opens fully - ICC links I-95 to the heart of Montgomery Co

QuoteIt was London weather, fog, drizzle, persistent light rain, a day without the sun, Tuesday Nov 22, but Marylanders in Montgomery Co, the state's most populous county immediately north of the District of Colombia, celebrated. They'd overcome the naysayers, the 'green' obstructionists who put the supposed needs of fish or fowl ahead of people... this crew had lost out in the opening in the early hours of Tuesday morning of the 19 mile long 2x3 lane toll expressway known as the Inter County Connector (ICC.) Officially it is now MD200.

QuoteThey told the story Tuesday of how the Environmental Defense Fund's Michael Replogle had declared to leading senior elected officials ten years ago: "You are wasting your breath (advocating the ICC), we'll make sure it never gets built."

QuoteThey tried everything to stop it - repeated lawsuits, heavy lobbying and sustained scaremongering - but they failed.

QuoteFinally there's a direct east-west connector of I-270 and Montgomery County with I-95 and Prince George's County and a way for the people of Gaithersburg and Rockville to drive comfortably and directly to BWI airport, to Columbia, to Baltimore and points northeast to Philadelphia or New York or east to Chesapeake Bay and the Eastern Shore. Until now they have had the lousy alternatives of looping south to the crowded Capital Beltway or traveling at 15mph on a disjointed network of 2-lane local roads that wind their way through Montgomery County shopping centers and past thousands of driveways and schools and businesses - waiting through twenty or so sets of traffic signals.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: agentsteel53 on November 24, 2011, 10:05:59 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on November 23, 2011, 02:02:32 PM
QuoteAfter that, E-ZPass will be required. Drivers who do not use E-ZPass will receive a bill by mail for 150 percent of the original toll.

that's actually reasonable.  is this information going to be posted?  I would presume that there will be a non-trivial minority of out-of-state drivers who a) lack EZ-Pass, b) would like to use that road.  if the 50% markup covers the extra administrative fees of paper billing, then I say advertise this fact.

It isn't signed now, and it should be. 

I found an excellent example of what the signage might look like from Ontario's Highway 407 on Jason Tsang's blog (no, I do not know him) - scroll down to the second image on this page:
What a difference one punctuation mark can make...


Quoteif not, and the markup that would cover this is reasonable, say a 100-150% markup at most, then increase the markup to that.  paying, say, $7 - and accepting the hassle of a written bill - for a $3 electronic toll would be something I'd consider given the alternates.

Quote(paying $125 fine for a $3 toll, as California threatens... not so much!)

Since it will be perfectly legal to use the ICC without a transponder, it's not a fine, but a service charge.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

agentsteel53

Quote from: cpzilliacus on November 24, 2011, 10:39:12 AM
Since it will be perfectly legal to use the ICC without a transponder, it's not a fine, but a service charge.

honestly, from the perspective of my wallet, it doesn't make a difference what they call it.
live from sunny San Diego.

http://shields.aaroads.com

jake@aaroads.com

mgk920

Quote from: agentsteel53 on November 24, 2011, 10:05:59 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on November 23, 2011, 02:02:32 PM
QuoteAfter that, E-ZPass will be required. Drivers who do not use E-ZPass will receive a bill by mail for 150 percent of the original toll.

that's actually reasonable.  is this information going to be posted?  I would presume that there will be a non-trivial minority of out-of-state drivers who a) lack EZ-Pass, b) would like to use that road.  if the 50% markup covers the extra administrative fees of paper billing, then I say advertise this fact.  

if not, and the markup that would cover this is reasonable, say a 100-150% markup at most, then increase the markup to that.  paying, say, $7 - and accepting the hassle of a written bill - for a $3 electronic toll would be something I'd consider given the alternates.  

(paying $125 fine for a $3 toll, as California threatens... not so much!)


That's still a far better deal for 'no transponder' than the Illinois Tollways - cash tolls there are 200% of transponder tolls.

Mike

cpzilliacus

#166
Quote from: agentsteel53 on November 24, 2011, 11:10:29 AM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on November 24, 2011, 10:39:12 AM
Since it will be perfectly legal to use the ICC without a transponder, it's not a fine, but a service charge.

honestly, from the perspective of my wallet, it doesn't make a difference what they call it.

Agreed.  I don't know the provisions of the CVC, but in Maryland not having a transponder is akin to a "service charge," not a fine.  The critical thing here is that "service charges" do not appear on a driving record and there are no demerit "points" associated with them, though I believe that MdTA can request that the Motor Vehicle Administration (what most other states call a "DMV") withhold registration renewals if a vehicle has unpaid tolls outstanding.

Over time, as toll interoperability spreads, I would think that one state would have the authority to ask the motor vehicle department of another state to withhold registration renewal for unpaid tolls, but I am not sure how widespread it is now.  This may be more relevant to a relatively small state like Maryland, with a lot of traffic on its highways from adjoining and nearby states than it is to California, where all of its major cities are relatively far from state borders (with the exception of San Diego, I suppose, which adjoins the state of Baja California ;-) ).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Beltway

It's all open, as I used it in both directions today. :-)  Plenty of traffic, at times all 3 lanes were spoken for.  Nice road, a number of long bridges in the mainline, that's probably part of the reason for the high construction cost.

Granted, per traffic volumes, we will have to see what happens after tolls are instituted Dec. 5th.  No tolls until then.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

cpzilliacus

#168
Quote from: Beltway on November 24, 2011, 10:34:52 PM
Nice road, a number of long bridges in the mainline, that's probably part of the reason for the high construction cost.

Those bridges are indeed part of the (higher) cost. 

Compare and contrast the long and high bridges that carry Md. 200 over the Paint Branch and Little Paint Branch [of the Anacostia River] with the way that they flow under the Capital Beltway some miles to the south in College Park.  The streams (which have a confluence near the University of Maryland campus) flow under the Beltway in relatively small culverts that would not be noticed by most persons, except for a sign.

Post Merge: November 25, 2011, 07:44:43 PM

Washington Post Letter to the Editor: For a speedy commute, the ICC is A-OK

QuoteOn Tuesday morning, I drove the Intercounty Connector (ICC) from Shady Grove to Interstate 95 to see if the ICC would be helpful on a drive to Baltimore or Baltimore-Washington International Marshall Airport. You betcha, as Minnesotans would say. From now on, I will drive the ICC if my route calls for it. In fact, I used it Thursday to travel to my daughter's apartment in Baltimore for Thanksgiving.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

WahooBill

When will someone post some photos of the new section?

NE2

pre-1945 Florida route log

I accept and respect your identity as long as it's not dumb shit like "identifying as a vaccinated attack helicopter".

Alex

Quote from: WahooBill on November 25, 2011, 12:20:23 PM
When will someone post some photos of the new section?

Mike Pruett (webmaster of mdroads.com) posted photos of the new section yesterday on the MDRoads Facebook page.

Alex

With the extension of the ICC to Interstate 95, what is the status of the c/d roadways to be built along Interstate 95? Looking at aerials, I see graded areas stubbing out just north of the MD-200 interchange, but no earth turned northward to MD-198. Is this work now pushed back to a later phase or onto a separate project?

Mr_Northside

QuoteAfter that, E-ZPass will be required. Drivers who do not use E-ZPass will receive a bill by mail for 150 percent of the original toll.

I get that they want to charge a fee for non-E-ZPass users, and as long as it's reasonable, I have no problem with that.

But shouldn't it be just a flat fee, and not a percent of the toll?
I mean, whether it's a $2 toll (which would result in a $1 fee), or a $7 toll ($3.50 fee), isn't the "cost" to administer the fee going to be the same?  
Is the postage higher to mail the $7 toll than a $2 toll?
Do they need to use more paper for a higher toll?  A bigger envelope?  A different system (cameras, computers & that)?

If the at-cost of non-transponder collection is the same whether you travel the distance for a $2 toll, or $7, there is no excuse to collect an extra $2 just for driving more.
I don't have opinions anymore. All I know is that no one is better than anyone else, and everyone is the best at everything

oscar

Quote from: Alex on November 25, 2011, 01:07:06 PM
With the extension of the ICC to Interstate 95, what is the status of the c/d roadways to be built along Interstate 95? Looking at aerials, I see graded areas stubbing out just north of the MD-200 interchange, but no earth turned northward to MD-198. Is this work now pushed back to a later phase or onto a separate project?

It's "deferred" indefinitely (Contract D).  The ICC will probably be extended first (Contract E) past I-95, to at least Virginia Manor Rd. and maybe all the way to US 1.  http://www.iccproject.com/project-area.php
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