Slate.com: Which U.S. City Has the Worst Drivers? (http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/science/2013/07/which_city_has_the_worst_drivers_boston_baltimore_washington_d_c_miami.html)
QuoteImagine: You're driving a car, and the driver ahead of you is behaving erratically. He can't stay in a lane. He puts on his left turn signal but doesn't turn. He slows to a near stop for no apparent reason, then surges forward. Finally, he makes a right turn from the left lane. You mutter to yourself, "This city has the worst [expletive] drivers."
QuoteWhat city are you envisioning?
QuoteEveryone who has ever set foot on an accelerator thinks they know where the worst drivers live, but they can't all be right. I set out to determine which city's drivers most deserve our steering-wheel slamming, bird-flipping frustration.
No one city for me. The behavior noted is indicative of tourists everywhere (especially if you see an arm hanging out the window).
The whole region--Miami-Fort Lauderdale, Florida, hands down.
I've heard drivers are bad in Connecticut. My limited experience driving in Connecticut corroborates that.
But on the other hand, time of day/week seems as important as location. I see a lot of crappy drivers in the middle of the day.
This sounds like L.A. for some reason. But I have no interest in helping Slate.
Not U.S., but if you see BC plates over here, you move out of the way. Canadians are notoriously bad drivers once they pass Blaine.
Quote from: xcellntbuy on July 25, 2013, 09:37:38 PM
The whole region--Miami-Fort Lauderdale, Florida, hands down.
Miami drivers aren't that bad once you get used to them IMO. Lately, with my work travels, I find myself most annoyed with drivers in NYC/LI, Dallas, and Chicago, in that order. And the tourists in Orlando are obnoxious.
Chicago, with emphasis on the Borman Expressway (I-80/94) between the Tri-State and the Toll Road. It's pure anarchy on the road. Whenever I get back from a trip to the east, Dayton, Cleveland, Port Huron, etc, I feel like everyone plays by the rules, or at least a set of rules until I get up to US-30 on I-65, or the Toll Road on I-94. Then I feel like all hell has broken loose and it becomes a free for all for every driver out there.
Dean Vernon Wormer: Greg, what city has the worst drivers in this country?
Greg Marmalard: Well that would be hard to say, sir. They're each outstanding in their own way.
(Depends on what one means by "worst." Least competent? Rudest just for the sake of being rude? Most likely to ignore traffic laws like red lights or not driving on the shoulder? Etc. Rudeness varies too–there's New York rude, which is mostly intolerance of stupidity, versus DC rude, which is more "I think I'm more important than you" rude.)
Quote from: realjd on July 25, 2013, 11:28:37 PM
Miami drivers aren't that bad once you get used to them
That's it right there. Good drivers are predictable drivers.
Quote from: 1995hoo on July 26, 2013, 07:19:29 AM
Dean Vernon Wormer: Greg, what city has the worst drivers in this country?
Greg Marmalard: Well that would be hard to say, sir. They're each outstanding in their own way.
(Depends on what one means by "worst." Least competent? Rudest just for the sake of being rude? Most likely to ignore traffic laws like red lights or not driving on the shoulder? Etc. Rudeness varies too–there's New York rude, which is mostly intolerance of stupidity, versus DC rude, which is more "I think I'm more important than you" rude.)
Boston rude is similar to DC rude, but with more skill behind it, and perhaps less widespread. Connecticut rude is even closer to DC rude. New Jersey rude is like NYC rude, but NYC rude is ameliorated by predictability and (relative) orderliness, at least within the Manhattan grid. Outer borough NYC driving is markedly different than Manhattan driving, manifested largely in the difference in driving habits of yellow cabs vs. non-medallion livery cars.
Southern California, surprisingly, isn't all that bad, despite the total lack of any applied lane discipline. South Florida, on the other hand, is quite a mess; I am most disappointed in their vehiculo-pedestrian interaction skills–probably because a pedestrian in south Florida is about as common as a triceratops in New York City.
Boston. Driving is a contact sport!
All of them!! I havent been to Canada recently but the last time I was there (1980's-90's) it seemed they were way more courteous than US drivers. Its sad & dangerous how drivers in the US drive :no:. I used to enjoy getting in the car and aimlessly driving around, before gas was $3+ a gallon. I mentioned to the better half just the other day that the bad drivers have taken all the fun out of driving. Incompetent &/or inconsiderate drivers infuriate me :ded: :pan:!! Now I drive only when I need to go somewhere :no:.
Entire State of Illinois. But for a city, I will say Chicago and Chicagoland proper
Miami. I have driven in every major US metropolitan area larger than, oh approximately Branson, Missouri. so I think I have a good scientific basis for this opinion... and, trust me, folks, it's Miami.
Quote from: vtk on July 26, 2013, 09:29:02 AM
Quote from: realjd on July 25, 2013, 11:28:37 PM
Miami drivers aren't that bad once you get used to them
That's it right there. Good drivers are predictable drivers.
except Miami does not feature predictably bad driving. Oregon, for example, you can get used to the fact that people do 55mph three-abreast on the freeway.
Miami, however, you cannot get used to the driving, which includes such behavior as running a stop sign, pulling in front of you as to completely stop your progress, and getting out of the car to swear at you. go ahead and try to predict
that!
Miami is bad. Nashville is bad as no one knows how to use a signal, move up in an intersection and many pass along the right shoulder as well.
Maybe Austin. Is it that hard to use your turn signals? So many people live here from so many different cities they brought their intermixing bad habits with them.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 30, 2013, 12:46:41 PM
Miami. I have driven in every major US metropolitan area larger than, oh approximately Branson, Missouri. so I think I have a good scientific basis for this opinion... and, trust me, folks, it's Miami.
Quote from: vtk on July 26, 2013, 09:29:02 AM
Quote from: realjd on July 25, 2013, 11:28:37 PM
Miami drivers aren't that bad once you get used to them
That's it right there. Good drivers are predictable drivers.
except Miami does not feature predictably bad driving. Oregon, for example, you can get used to the fact that people do 55mph three-abreast on the freeway.
Miami, however, you cannot get used to the driving, which includes such behavior as running a stop sign, pulling in front of you as to completely stop your progress, and getting out of the car to swear at you. go ahead and try to predict that!
Sounds like Chicago, but instead of getting out to swear at you, they just exchange middle fingers with you.
Post Merge: July 30, 2013, 04:38:33 PM
Quote from: ET21 on July 28, 2013, 12:08:25 AM
Entire State of Illinois. But for a city, I will say Chicago and Chicagoland proper
There
is a reason why Cheeseheads call those with Illinois plates FIBs.
Fucking
Illinois
Bastards.
Quote from: Brandon on July 30, 2013, 02:17:14 PM
Sounds like Chicago, but instead of getting out to swear at you, they just exchange middle fingers with you.
I've never had much trouble in Chicago... but then again I probably don't even bother to remember a simple middle-finger exchange. in Boston that's basically a friendly greeting.
Seattle. No, you can't go 5 MPH under the speed limit in the left lane, move the hell over! Half the problem is Oregon's low speed limits confuse out of state drivers, but come on, keep right except to pass, it's not hard.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on July 30, 2013, 12:46:41 PM
Miami. I have driven in every major US metropolitan area larger than, oh approximately Branson, Missouri. so I think I have a good scientific basis for this opinion... and, trust me, folks, it's Miami.
Quote from: vtk on July 26, 2013, 09:29:02 AM
Quote from: realjd on July 25, 2013, 11:28:37 PM
Miami drivers aren't that bad once you get used to them
That's it right there. Good drivers are predictable drivers.
except Miami does not feature predictably bad driving. Oregon, for example, you can get used to the fact that people do 55mph three-abreast on the freeway.
Miami, however, you cannot get used to the driving, which includes such behavior as running a stop sign, pulling in front of you as to completely stop your progress, and getting out of the car to swear at you. go ahead and try to predict that!
Sounds predictable to me...
Quote from: realjd on July 31, 2013, 03:55:46 PM
Sounds predictable to me...
only if every one of them did it, in which case it would be a case of "these are the local driving laws". but if 1 in every 10 drivers is erratic, as opposed to 1 in every 100 nationwide, I reserve the right to say that Miami is 10x as worse a place to drive in than average.
Let's put it this way, no city ever brags that they have the best drivers.
I guess 20+ years of living in the South Florida area has made me realize it's seemingly normal...
Quote from: formulanone on July 31, 2013, 08:53:14 PM
Let's put it this way, no city ever brags that they have the best drivers.
I guess 20+ years of living in the South Florida area has made me realize it's seemingly normal...
It takes a mighty strong stomach sometimes.
The Tampa Bay Area has its share of awful drivers as well. It must have something to do with Florida traffic engineers. Also, the signal timing is terrible, compounding the issue.
Quote from: TXtoNJ on August 01, 2013, 06:17:35 PM
The Tampa Bay Area has its share of awful drivers as well. It must have something to do with Florida traffic engineers. Also, the signal timing is terrible, compounding the issue.
yep.
126 traffic lights on US-441 in Orlando from when I started counting to when I stopped.
I got a green for
six of them.
Given my somewhat limited travels recently, I will go with Denver. Somehow the drivers there seem worse than anywhere else including and between Chicagoland and San Francisco.
Boston. In my experience (45 years of driving), nowhere else comes close.
Tulsa, Oklahoma.
<end of thread. there is no greater example.>
Quote from: bugo on August 02, 2013, 08:36:37 AM
Tulsa, Oklahoma.
<end of thread. there is no greater example.>
Tulsa is no worse than anywhere else I've been. I'd say everywhere is drifting toward parity with everywhere else in terms of stupid drivers anymore. There are pockets of really bad ones, such as Alabama, but by and large, everyone has gotten so bad there practically isn't a comparison anymore.
I think everyone's answers are gonna depend on whether you hate maniacs (generally too fast or aggressive) or idiots (generally too slow or inattentive) more. I'm okay with maniacs; it's the idiots I can't stand.
Miami somehow manages to combine the psychotic behavior of maniacs with the bovine behavior of idiots. it's kind of a neat achievement from a theoretical perspective, but it sucks to actually have to work with.
I am always more annoyed by idiots. Especially people in cars who want to go 60 on the freeway when the limit is 65 or more. Why 60? What's wrong with 65? Why do you have to be just slow enough to be in my way and just fast enough to be a pain in the ass to overtake in my 62mph truck? I figure there are probably 40,000 trucks on the road governed to 61 or 62, so people really should run 65 at least if the speed limit permits, or if you're that worried about fuel economy and/or you feel your car isn't up to 65+... run 55, so we can get around.
Don't get me started on the ones who want to go around 60, but can't maintain their speed, and always conveniently seem to speed up to 63-64 (over my governor) when I get out to pass them, then slow to 58 or so when I get back behind them...makes me wish I was Bruce (of Bruce Almighty) or Magneto, so I could just pick them up and place them behind me.
Quote from: Crazy Volvo Guy on August 02, 2013, 12:29:06 PM40,000 trucks on the road governed to 61 or 62
I think I've found the source of the problem.
who the Hell ever decided that governors are the way to go? it's fine to run 62 on cruise control as a good compromise between fuel efficiency and getting to point B quickly. but if you need to speed up to 67 for a few moments to avoid creating congestion, why does some pencil-pusher in a faraway office forbid you from doing so?
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 02, 2013, 12:42:16 PM
Quote from: Crazy Volvo Guy on August 02, 2013, 12:29:06 PM40,000 trucks on the road governed to 61 or 62
I think I've found the source of the problem.
who the Hell ever decided that governors are the way to go? it's fine to run 62 on cruise control as a good compromise between fuel efficiency and getting to point B quickly. but if you need to speed up to 67 for a few moments to avoid creating congestion, why does some pencil-pusher in a faraway office forbid you from doing so?
And to think, the ATA is pushing for mandated governors on all trucks. (They're also pushing for a return of a 65 NMSL; google it.) I have a solution to the problem: laws in every state that say any person(s) who decree that a fleet of vehicles should be equipped with governors has to submit to having that same governor installed on his/her personal vehicle(s) for as long as he/she decrees that said fleet should be governed, or said fleet cannot be governed. Regardless of whether they work at a trucking company or an insurance company.
Governors would be a thing of the past within one month of implementation.
Quote from: Crazy Volvo Guy on August 02, 2013, 12:54:43 PM
Governors would be a thing of the past within one month of implementation.
no; these people would just drive rental cars, or their buddy's automobile, or something. owners of large corporations are great at finding loopholes.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 02, 2013, 12:42:16 PM
who the Hell ever decided that governors are the way to go? ...why does some pencil-pusher in a faraway office forbid you from doing so?
It's part of an overall trend toward drivers becoming less independent, less skilled, and eventually, completely superfluous. In fact, an ATA director recently commented that completely automated trucks were "close to inevitable". (http://bit.ly/1egQXPF (http://bit.ly/1egQXPF))
In the mean time, drivers are seen as more of disposable commodity as their routes are preplanned, movements tracked by GPS, all actions registered in electronic logbooks, and speed controlled by a governor.
As fuel prices rise, highways become more crowded, and manufacturers and consumers demand just-in-time deliveries, the domino costs of an inefficiency, carelessness, or imprecise timing skyrocket. And when you're in the Walmart-like business on making billions in the aggregate out of a fraction-of-a-cent margin–as the trucking companies are–you implement these kind of command-and-control tactics.
We're long past the days of
They Drive By Night–a great movie if you've never seen it.
Quote from: cpzilliacus on July 25, 2013, 06:37:07 PM
Which U.S. City Has the Worst Drivers?
I second and third South Florida as a metro area.
I don't think it's been pointed out yet, but I've also noticed a dichotomy in any given metro as a whole and "city drivers" specifically–drivers in the urban core vs. the suburbs. I end up driving in the city (in SF) at least a few days a week, and there's a big difference in the drivers here vs. the Bay Area in general.
as far as SF drivers go, actual locals seem to be excellent, but the tourists are pure shit.
it doesn't help that San Francisco is probably the most driver-unfriendly city in the US.
(also, their bicyclists transcend "maniac" and bury the needle well past "reckless".)
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 02, 2013, 01:01:07 PM
Quote from: Crazy Volvo Guy on August 02, 2013, 12:54:43 PM
Governors would be a thing of the past within one month of implementation.
no; these people would just drive rental cars, or their buddy's automobile, or something. owners of large corporations are great at finding loopholes.
So are politicians and their lobbyists. Coming up with stupid laws never stopped Congress (both houses) from passing them and the President (name your favorite party) from signing them. Look at the NMSL and how long that piece of shit stood on the books until its final repeal.
Quote from: briantroutman on August 02, 2013, 01:33:23 PM
I don't think it's been pointed out yet, but I've also noticed a dichotomy in any given metro as a whole and "city drivers" specifically–drivers in the urban core vs. the suburbs. I end up driving in the city (in SF) at least a few days a week, and there's a big difference in the drivers here vs. the Bay Area in general.
I point out above the distinction between Manhattan and outer-borough NYC drivers, which is essentially the same effect, even if for different reasons than in other metro areas. You do then get further variety as you get out into the suburbs proper, and even some variation between different suburban areas: NJ, CT, Long Island and mainland New York.
I currently live in Lewisville, Texas, and the drivers here aren't all that bad.
I visited Florida, and didn't notice the drivers being particularly bad.
Denton, Tx has to be the worst, and the demographics of the residents lay a role. Mostly college students, senior citizens, and Mexicans. All horrible drivers. Combine that with bad streets, it really is a horrible place to drive.
In Lewisville / Flower Mound, the demographics are better, and not coincidentally, so are the drivers.
Driving to Emporia Kansas this weekend was refreshing. In Kansas they know how to drive in the rain. Plus they use their turn signals. Even up there all the people who didn't use them generally were Texans. Had one jerk cut me off while switching lanes many times.
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 02, 2013, 11:47:40 AM
I think everyone's answers are gonna depend on whether you hate maniacs (generally too fast or aggressive) or idiots (generally too slow or inattentive) more. I'm okay with maniacs; it's the idiots I can't stand.
Miami somehow manages to combine the psychotic behavior of maniacs with the bovine behavior of idiots. it's kind of a neat achievement from a theoretical perspective, but it sucks to actually have to work with.
You're on the cusp of having figured out Miami traffic. There's a synergy between the idiots and the maniacs. The maniacs drive maniacally to get around the idiots, and the idiots drive like idiots because they're scared of the maniacs. It's a well balanced equilibrium between the two and most people adopt one of the two styles very quickly.
I much prefer Miami driving to Orlando. Orlando has the Miami-style idiots and maniacs but the influx of tourists with their "unique" driving habits brought from other parts of the country and world keep that predictable equilibrium from being reached.
Quote from: realjd on August 05, 2013, 06:57:04 PM
Quote from: agentsteel53 on August 02, 2013, 11:47:40 AM
Miami somehow manages to combine the psychotic behavior of maniacs with the bovine behavior of idiots. it's kind of a neat achievement from a theoretical perspective, but it sucks to actually have to work with.
You're on the cusp of having figured out Miami traffic. There's a synergy between the idiots and the maniacs. The maniacs drive maniacally to get around the idiots, and the idiots drive like idiots because they're scared of the maniacs. It's a well balanced equilibrium between the two and most people adopt one of the two styles very quickly.
I much prefer Miami driving to Orlando. Orlando has the Miami-style idiots and maniacs but the influx of tourists with their "unique" driving habits brought from other parts of the country and world keep that predictable equilibrium from being reached.
Which is why Tampa and Jacksonville are comparative oases of civility compared to the other two metro areas.
Gainesville-area drivers are quite polite, although appear to be frequently drunken...although that's a metro area of roughly 200,000 people on an average school day, at best.
Quote from: texaskdog on August 05, 2013, 01:22:52 PM
Driving to Emporia Kansas this weekend was refreshing. In Kansas they know how to drive in the rain. Plus they use their turn signals. Even up there all the people who didn't use them generally were Texans. Had one jerk cut me off while switching lanes many times.
Kansas has good drivers, for the most part. In the Kansas City area there are a few lunatics (of the type that bomb across three lanes and the gore at 90mph to take an exit). But they're probably about as common as in any other city that size.
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 07, 2013, 02:10:22 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on August 05, 2013, 01:22:52 PM
Driving to Emporia Kansas this weekend was refreshing. In Kansas they know how to drive in the rain. Plus they use their turn signals. Even up there all the people who didn't use them generally were Texans. Had one jerk cut me off while switching lanes many times.
Kansas has good drivers, for the most part. In the Kansas City area there are a few lunatics (of the type that bomb across three lanes and the gore at 90mph to take an exit). But they're probably about as common as in any other city that size.
I didn't notice too much of the bombing across the lanes when I went to Kansas City last Saturday. I found most of the drivers there to be slow, sticking to near the limits. Maybe it's because the bombing across the lanes is so flipping common in Chicago that anywhere else seems quiet by comparison.
I've never been to Florida, so I can't give an opinion on the drivers there, but Los Angeles has the worst drivers as far as I'm concerned.
Quote from: Brandon on August 07, 2013, 02:16:40 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on August 07, 2013, 02:10:22 PM
Quote from: texaskdog on August 05, 2013, 01:22:52 PM
Driving to Emporia Kansas this weekend was refreshing. In Kansas they know how to drive in the rain. Plus they use their turn signals. Even up there all the people who didn't use them generally were Texans. Had one jerk cut me off while switching lanes many times.
Kansas has good drivers, for the most part. In the Kansas City area there are a few lunatics (of the type that bomb across three lanes and the gore at 90mph to take an exit). But they're probably about as common as in any other city that size.
I didn't notice too much of the bombing across the lanes when I went to Kansas City last Saturday. I found most of the drivers there to be slow, sticking to near the limits. Maybe it's because the bombing across the lanes is so flipping common in Chicago that anywhere else seems quiet by comparison.
It's definitely quieter than Chicago–you might see only one such lunatic in a trip across town. It does seem mildly more crazy than somewhere like Oklahoma City, but the effect is somewhat canceled out by having fewer situations that provoke dangerous behavior (like sudden lane drops, weaving, insufficient merge space, etc.)