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VDOT Dynamic Message Signs

Started by Pink Jazz, February 26, 2016, 01:44:12 PM

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Pink Jazz

When I used to live in Virginia, as well as the various times that I visited, it seems that VDOT seems to have a lot of variation between different models of dynamic message signs, and quite a bit of inconsistency between districts.

Around the state, it seems that most LED DMS are made by either Daktronics, Mark IV, or LEDStar.  There are also a few Skyline Products DMS in Northern Virginia, and possibly some other manufacturers in other districts. I think Daktronics currently holds VDOT's main contract.

I think the Hampton Roads and Northern Virginia districts were the first to use dynamic message signs, using flip-dot models (made by Lake Technologies, who is now out of business).  VDOT has recently refurbished many of these flip-dot DMS with SES America's LED retrofit package (which installs new panels and controllers but retains the existing housings), which should extend their lives about 15 years.

Also, some districts have mostly row matrix signs while others have full matrix.  Hampton Roads is mostly row matrix (primarily made by LEDStar as well as the former flip-dot signs refurbished using the SES America LED retrofit package), however, in recent years a few new Daktronics full matrix DMS have been installed within the district, specifically on and at the approaches to the High Rise Bridge and the George P. Coleman Bridge.  I think the James River Bridge also recently got the full matrix treatment, replacing the older Daktronics row matrix DMS with new full matrix models (not sure the manufacturer), since VDOT did put out an RFP to replace the existing DMS a few years ago.  The HRBT and the Berkeley Bridge/Downtown Tunnel complex use LEDStar row matrix DMS (three rows for the main travel directions on the HRBT, two rows for the BB/DT and the reverse directions on the HRBT), all of which are wider than the standard size DMS used in the Hampton Roads district.  Also, while the MMMBT uses LEDStar row matrix DMS (with three rows) on the main travel directions, the DMS for the reverse directions used when one span is closed in emergencies are still very old flip-dot signs with two rows.  I wonder why the HRBT got them for both the main travel directions and the reverse directions, while the MMMBT only got them for the main travel directions.  Perhaps once VDOT decides to replace the old flip-dot DMS on the MMMBT, the main travel directions can get new full matrix LED DMS, while the existing LEDStar row matrix DMS can be recycled for the reverse directions (even though they have three rows instead of two).

Richmond, on the other hand, has been full matrix since at least the late 1990s (not sure about the manufacturer, possibly LEDStar as well unless someone can correct me?).  I actually remember a late night sign test on I-295, and I was able to tell the sign was full matrix at night by the use of larger fonts, and wondered why Richmond got such signs at the time while Hampton Roads did not, which is surprising since Hampton Roads gets a larger share of VDOT's funding than Richmond (second only to Northern Virginia), so it seems odd that Richmond got fancier DMS.

I was wondering, why does VDOT have so much variation between different models and districts for their DMS?


cpzilliacus

#1
Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 26, 2016, 01:44:12 PM
I think the Hampton Roads and Northern Virginia districts were the first to use dynamic message signs, using flip-dot models (made by Lake Technologies, who is now out of business).  VDOT has recently refurbished many of these flip-dot DMS with SES America's LED retrofit package (which installs new panels and controllers but retains the existing housings), which should extend their lives about 15 years.

The first ones I ever saw in a large-scale deployment in Virginia were along I-66 between I-495 and the Rosslyn Tunnel, where a changeable message sign was needed at each access point because of the HOV restrictions.  They were indeed the "flip dot" type units, and they emitted a slight rattle sound when the message changed (usually when the HOV restrictions started and ended, though sometimes when a message was "flashing").

There were also a few two-line units with the same technology installed along the mainline of I-66. 

I had seen others prior to the opening of I-66, notably along (what is now signed as) I-895 at the various approaches to the Baltimore Harbor Tunnel and some of the entrances to I-895, but not nearly as many as came online when that part of I-66 opened.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Rothman

Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 26, 2016, 01:44:12 PM
I was wondering, why does VDOT have so much variation between different models and districts for their DMS?

I'd aver that it's just probably due to low-bid purchasing/contracting per rounds of VMS installation.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position(s) of NYSDOT.

Pink Jazz

#3
Quote from: Rothman on February 26, 2016, 03:13:41 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 26, 2016, 01:44:12 PM
I was wondering, why does VDOT have so much variation between different models and districts for their DMS?

I'd aver that it's just probably due to low-bid purchasing/contracting per rounds of VMS installation.

I know in Arizona they are pretty consistent statewide across all districts, although in recent years ADOT has started to use different models for different classes of roads due to expansion of its rural ITS network, divided into four categories (Freeway, Intermediate, Large Arterial, and Small Arterial), with the Freeway signs being the largest and Small Arterial being the smallest, using a walk-in cabinet for the freeway signs and a front access cabinet for the rest.  Full matrix signs were first used by ADOT in 2007 for the Intermediate, Large Arterial, and Small Arterial categories (all made by Skyline Products), while the Freeway category used fixed character matrix signs (made by Daktronics).  In 2012 ADOT decided to go with a single vendor for all classes of roadway in the state and began to specify full matrix signs for freeways as well, which the contract was awarded to Skyline.

I'm am not sure why VDOT doesn't keep things consistent across all districts.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: Rothman on February 26, 2016, 03:13:41 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 26, 2016, 01:44:12 PM
I was wondering, why does VDOT have so much variation between different models and districts for their DMS?

I'd aver that it's just probably due to low-bid purchasing/contracting per rounds of VMS installation.

I think that's correct.  I doubt that VDOT had a statewide standard when that part of I-66 opened to traffic in 1982. 

Strangely, there were similar-technology signs  along the I-395 corridor's reversible HOV lanes (much of which is the 95Express HOV/toll lanes now), but I will be darned if I can recall when those were installed.  I do not think they date back to the opening of the I-95 Busway (as it was called in its earliest days of the early 1970's).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Pink Jazz

#5
Quote from: cpzilliacus on February 26, 2016, 05:54:43 PM
Quote from: Rothman on February 26, 2016, 03:13:41 PM
Quote from: Pink Jazz on February 26, 2016, 01:44:12 PM
I was wondering, why does VDOT have so much variation between different models and districts for their DMS?

I'd aver that it's just probably due to low-bid purchasing/contracting per rounds of VMS installation.

I think that's correct.  I doubt that VDOT had a statewide standard when that part of I-66 opened to traffic in 1982. 

Strangely, there were similar-technology signs  along the I-395 corridor's reversible HOV lanes (much of which is the 95Express HOV/toll lanes now), but I will be darned if I can recall when those were installed.  I do not think they date back to the opening of the I-95 Busway (as it was called in its earliest days of the early 1970's).

I know VDOT also had flip dot signs over the HOV lanes in the Hampton Roads district as well on both I-64 and I-264.  These have been refurbished with SES America's LED retrofit package, as were many flip-dot signs in Northern Virginia.

Also, until last year, I-264 (formerly VA 44) also had flip-dot signs over the shoulder lanes to indicate whether the shoulder lane was open or closed.  These were not refurbished, but were replaced by simple lane control signals instead as of March of last year.

I also recall seeing a flip-dot/LED hybrid sign on I-64 westbound in Hampton.

I think the HRBT was the first highway segment in Hampton Roads to get all-LED signs in the late 1990s, followed by the MMMBT and the Berkeley Bridge/Downtown Tunnel complex from 2000 to 2001.  The HRBT and BB/DT complex originally had electromechanical rotating prism signs, while the MMMBT had flip-dot signs (which are still up for the reverse directions).  More LEDStar LED signs began to be installed across Hampton Roads in the summer of 2000, however, they were not activated until 2001.

Note that all DMS in Hampton Roads seem to be of the front access type, while other parts of the state has some walk-in units.

1995hoo

The flip-dot signs in the Shirley Highway corridor definitely didn't date back to the 1970s. I'm pretty sure they were installed sometime after December 1982 (which is when I-66 opened inside the Beltway) because that type of sign first appeared around here when I-66 opened and VDOT started using the term HOV-4 to refer to the carpool restriction on I-66. Previous signs on I-395 had not used the term "HOV" and I remember people thinking it was a strange and stupid term. It was only after the term "HOV" took hold that VDOT began posting signs on I-395 using the term "RESTRICTED LANES." As to I-66, sometimes the signs would say "WASHINGTON" and give the distance to the exit, but at other times they'd say "HOV-4 ONLY." Hence the flip-dot installations.

It also bears noting that once upon a time the Shirley Highway reversible lanes bore a carpool restriction at all times, not just during rush hours like it is now. So there was less need for a variable message when it was either HOV-4 or closed. Once you go to part-time HOV, having the ability to change the sign becomes more important.

Somewhere I have a picture of the old 1970s-vintage northbound sign approaching Turkeycock. If I can find it, I'll edit this post.


Edited to add–Here it is. I knew I'd posted it on this forum before, so I searched my old posts for "pool cars" and found it.

"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

Pink Jazz

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 27, 2016, 11:16:00 AM
The flip-dot signs in the Shirley Highway corridor definitely didn't date back to the 1970s. I'm pretty sure they were installed sometime after December 1982 (which is when I-66 opened inside the Beltway) because that type of sign first appeared around here when I-66 opened and VDOT started using the term HOV-4 to refer to the carpool restriction on I-66. Previous signs on I-395 had not used the term "HOV" and I remember people thinking it was a strange and stupid term. It was only after the term "HOV" took hold that VDOT began posting signs on I-395 using the term "RESTRICTED LANES." As to I-66, sometimes the signs would say "WASHINGTON" and give the distance to the exit, but at other times they'd say "HOV-4 ONLY." Hence the flip-dot installations.

It also bears noting that once upon a time the Shirley Highway reversible lanes bore a carpool restriction at all times, not just during rush hours like it is now. So there was less need for a variable message when it was either HOV-4 or closed. Once you go to part-time HOV, having the ability to change the sign becomes more important.

Somewhere I have a picture of the old 1970s-vintage northbound sign approaching Turkeycock. If I can find it, I'll edit this post.


Edited to add–Here it is. I knew I'd posted it on this forum before, so I searched my old posts for "pool cars" and found it.



I know in Hampton Roads, the DMS over the HOV lanes on I-264 display "HOV-2 ONLY" with a large divided diamond on the left and an arrow below.  These would look so much better if the signs were full matrix, thus not having to divide the HOV diamond into three rows.  These along with many others have been refurbished using SES America's LED retrofit package around 2011-2012, which has about a 15 year lifespan, so it will be many years before full matrix DMS become common in Hampton Roads.

cpzilliacus

#8
Quote from: 1995hoo on February 27, 2016, 11:16:00 AM


Aside on the bus in the image above.  It was purchased about 1970 or 1971 in large part as  special USDOT/UMTA grant to test the concept of buses on freeways on the I-95 Busway (as the I-395 managed lanes were known in the early days).

These were for many years the best buses in the WMATA Metrobus fleet (originally run by AB&W Transit), and the newest, fastest and best-appointed of what were once thousands of GMC New Look buses in the fleet.  They were originally in the red paint scheme of AB&W with panels that read Shirley Express.

Unfortunately, WMATA had to award their first big bus procurement contract to AMC (yes, same people that built the Gremlin) in 1972 and not to GMC or Flxible, which was a disaster for WMATA, for the WMATA drivers and WMATA bus patrons. 

Here's a fine picture of one of the Shirley Express buses that I recognize from the NVTC Web site (someone put it up on the Fairfax Underground site):
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

1995hoo

Image doesn't work. That site always causes issues. You have to download the image and then upload it elsewhere. I learned this because I also tried to embed an image here from that forum.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 28, 2016, 07:41:54 PM
Image doesn't work. That site always causes issues. You have to download the image and then upload it elsewhere. I learned this because I also tried to embed an image here from that forum.

Annoying.  Renders fine for me.  What error message are you getting?
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

1995hoo

It says hotlinking is disabled. I think it shows up for you because it's in your browser cache. If you do a hard refresh of this thread, it would likely disappear.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

1995hoo

BTW.....we made a roundtrip to DC on I-395 last night (Saturday) and I found myself noting that with the 395 Express Lanes project coming up, the last of the old signs over the reversible lanes will soon disappear. Note the white-on-black sign in the photo above. There is one sign left with that color scheme, an "ALL TRAFFIC" pull-thru sign over the southbound reversible lanes at Turkeycock. It has two arrows, so it won't survive the conversion to three lanes. That also means the old-style white-on-red all-text "DO NOT ENTER" sign next to it will vanish, too. Both of those signs date back to the 1970s.

The other older sign, though not as old, is the auxiliary banner over the southbound exit sign for Seminary Road that says "EXPRESS LANES ONLY." Aside from Bob Marbourg's traffic reports, that sign is the last remnant of the days when everyone called those lanes "the express lanes." There used to be a few other signs that used that term, but they're all gone and only this one remains. It'll almost certainly be replaced (and the sign with which it is associated has been hit by graffiti, too). The term "express lanes" might return, I suppose, but it has a different meaning now.
"You know, you never have a guaranteed spot until you have a spot guaranteed."
—Olaf Kolzig, as quoted in the Washington Times on March 28, 2003,
commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"
—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

cpzilliacus

Quote from: 1995hoo on February 28, 2016, 09:55:50 PM
It says hotlinking is disabled. I think it shows up for you because it's in your browser cache. If you do a hard refresh of this thread, it would likely disappear.

Right. 

I will deal with it and put it elsewhere when I get a chance.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.



Opinions expressed here on belong solely to the poster and do not represent or reflect the opinions or beliefs of AARoads, its creators and/or associates.