Parking Lots

[US 41]

Who designs parking lots now days? Some lots are just so poorly designed that people are cutting across spaces to get out, etc. These unnecessary curvy roads going into parking lots are annoying too (even more so when it rains). I often tell people that the hardest part of driving is in the Walmart Parking Lot. You have to constantly watch people. Anyone have any ideas for how to make a better parking lot.

[oscar]

Wal-Mart parking lots seem to have few barriers to people cutting across rows, other than the cart corrals scattered around the lots.  Of course, the more such barriers, the fewer opportunities for pull-through parking spaces where you don't need to use reverse when leaving.  Having to back out of spaces isn't the safest way to exit, either.

Wal-Mart may have it figured out and is applying a more or less consistent design for most or all their stores, though I agree you need to swivel your neck to watch for people ignoring the striping and coming at you from all directions.  (That was a precaution I took going to a Wal-Mart this afternoon, though I'll concede that I was also one of the offenders in that lot as I spotted open spaces one row over from me.)  But for other companies (especially smaller ones), YMMV.

[Mr. Matté]

Lots of factors come into play. I've done some parking lot designs where I work but ideally, you want to first try to fit as many spaces you can in the smallest area to meet the minimum parking requirement for the type of building being put in. Then you also have to worry about local ordinances setting requirements for space size, number of islands per bay of spaces, planted islands between bays, and other impervious regulations. Long ring roads may have to do with getting fire trucks throughout the entire site should there be a building or car fire.

As to dealing with constantly watching for inattentive people within a lot, that's why I typically park towards the back so there's more room to move around due to less cars, easier chance to find a space rather than going to the front of the store and constantly going up and down the aisles, and taking those back ring roads to bypass the front entrance with the slow-moving little old ladies from Upper Montclair constantly getting the right-of-way.

[corco]

and taking those back ring roads to bypass the front entrance with the slow-moving little old ladies from Upper Montclair constantly getting the right-of-way.

That's key, I don't know why anybody would ever drive across the fire lane in front of Walmart on purpose during busy hours.

[DandyDan]

The problem with most parking lots is that they seemed designed to accommodate the Black Friday crowd, and not any of the other 364 days a year, at least at the big box stores.

[Brian556]

The parking lot of the Wal-Mart in Lewisville, Texas was originally built without any barriers to prevent cross-lot driving. this lasted a few years, and unbelievably, they redid the lot to have islands separating every other row to stop this. I was impressed that a business actually did something to improve safety in their lot.

https://maps.google.com/?ll=33.046556,-97.013395&spn=0.001576,0.003098&t=h&z=19

At the Target that I work at, parts of the lot are just too steep. Customers cannot let go of their carts when loading groceries into their vehicles, which is pretty stupid.  Also, this posed a problem for cart attendants in two ways. Target's new carts are designed so that when they are put together, the back wheels are of the ground, and only the front swivel casters touch the grounds. This means that on slopes, the cart mover has to be pointed uphill when it is loaded. Also, when traversing a slope horizontally with a loaded cart mover, you cannot have more than 12 carts on it, because they will bow out downhill, and you won't be able to control them. The slopes were not a problem with the old-style carts.

Yes, parking lots are designed incredibly poorly, and I have yet to see one without a major traffic safety hazard.

[roadman]

The problem with most parking lots is that they seemed designed to accommodate the Black Friday crowd, and not any of the other 364 days a year, at least at the big box stores.

That can also be said for the interior design of those big box stores as well.

[DaBigE]

The problem with most parking lots is that they seemed designed to accommodate the Black Friday crowd, and not any of the other 364 days a year, at least at the big box stores.

That's not always the fault of the big box...usually they're abiding by the local design ordinances which dictate how much parking must be present (along with the %age of handicapped stalls required). The larger the lot, the more the store has to maintain (potholes, sealcoating, restriping, snow removal, etc.).

In a few cases I've seen, (when I was dumb enough to be out on Black Friday ), the lots weren't big enough for Black Friday crowds, yet way more than adequate for the average shopping day.

[DandyDan]

The problem with most parking lots is that they seemed designed to accommodate the Black Friday crowd, and not any of the other 364 days a year, at least at the big box stores.

That's not always the fault of the big box...usually they're abiding by the local design ordinances which dictate how much parking must be present (along with the %age of handicapped stalls required). The larger the lot, the more the store has to maintain (potholes, sealcoating, restriping, snow removal, etc.).

In a few cases I've seen, (when I was dumb enough to be out on Black Friday ), the lots weren't big enough for Black Friday crowds, yet way more than adequate for the average shopping day.

I have no doubt they are following the local law, but the one thing I've noticed in those lots is that the farther you are from the door to the store, the more people seem to think they can just drive anywhere within the lot, without following the striping.  If they made lots smaller, I think it would cut down a lot of safety issues.

[Brian556]

I have no doubt they are following the local law, but the one thing I've noticed in those lots is that the farther you are from the door to the store, the more people seem to think they can just drive anywhere within the lot, without following the striping.  If they made lots smaller, I think it would cut down a lot of safety issues.
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I had an idea on this. Divide the lot into two parts with a roadway. Part 1: everyday use. Part 2: Holiday Overflow. Gate off part 2 and only open it during holidays. The primary reason for this idea for me is to prevent carts from being taken into the far reaches of the lot un-nessessarliy.

[agentsteel53]

there is a very good way to avoid getting into a troublesome situation at a Walmart parking lot ...

[triplemultiplex]

I wonder how much effort it would take to turn a parking lot into an agricultural field.
Especially if one doesn't have access to machinery.

If removed carefully, the pavement could be turned into a functional building material; ready-made asphalt bricks.
The aggregate underneath would need a LOT of organic material mixed into it. And breaking it up might be tough; that stuff is highly compacted before it gets paved over.
At least there would be good drainage so it would not flood very much.  But it would probably dry out too easy.  Best mix in some clay-rich sediment along with the organic stuff if possible.
If there are any light poles, those would be good perches for birds of prey so they can keep rabbits and mice in check.
Newer lots have retention ponds nearby; that would be good to catch rain water to use later for irrigation.

Seems like a lot of work, but in a pinch, it could be done.

[realjd]

Random fact: Walmart typically has a portion of the parking lot toward the back where they stripe the spaces using opposite color paint (e.g. yellow striping when most of the spots are white). That's where the employees are forced to park. Source: a friend worked for Walmart in college.

[Pete from Boston]

I wonder how much effort it would take to turn a parking lot into an agricultural field.
Especially if one doesn't have access to machinery.

If removed carefully, the pavement could be turned into a functional building material; ready-made asphalt bricks.
The aggregate underneath would need a LOT of organic material mixed into it. And breaking it up might be tough; that stuff is highly compacted before it gets paved over.
At least there would be good drainage so it would not flood very much.  But it would probably dry out too easy.  Best mix in some clay-rich sediment along with the organic stuff if possible.
If there are any light poles, those would be good perches for birds of prey so they can keep rabbits and mice in check.
Newer lots have retention ponds nearby; that would be good to catch rain water to use later for irrigation.

Seems like a lot of work, but in a pinch, it could be done.

This inspired me to crack open Big Box Reuse, an underexplored volume in my collection, which has lots to say about large commercial properties but nothing about wholesale removal of parking lots. 

Would you keep the building?

How would you address the effect of years of motor fluid seeping in?

[wphiii]

there is a very good way to avoid getting into a troublesome situation at a Walmart parking lot ...

...don't shop at Walmart?

[allniter89]

there is a very good way to avoid getting into a troublesome situation at a Walmart parking lot ...

...don't shop at Walmart?

That works for me! FCK WM and the Chinese crap they sell! FCK WM for the way they treat their employess! There are too many mom & pop stores that actually appreciate my business to go to WM. BUY AMERICAN!

[jakeroot]

there is a very good way to avoid getting into a troublesome situation at a Walmart parking lot ...

...don't shop at Walmart?

That works for me! FCK WM and the Chinese crap they sell! FCK WM for the way they treat their employess! There are too many mom & pop stores that actually appreciate my business to go to WM. BUY AMERICAN!

GEORGE BUSH! GUNS! BEER! IMPEACH OBAMA!

[SteveG1988]

A lot of times the massive parking lot is dictated by the maximum occupancy of the building it is attached to. For example a Walmart may be able to hold a max of 800 people, that would dictate maybe 650 spots, if not more. Even if average occupancy is 200 people, they still have to build for the exception.

[Pete from Boston]

A lot of times the massive parking lot is dictated by the maximum occupancy of the building it is attached to. For example a Walmart may be able to hold a max of 800 people, that would dictate maybe 650 spots, if not more. Even if average occupancy is 200 people, they still have to build for the exception.

It's dictated by local land-use regulations, generally relating to a ratio of so many parking spaces per so many square feet of store. 

[jeffandnicole]

A lot of times the massive parking lot is dictated by the maximum occupancy of the building it is attached to. For example a Walmart may be able to hold a max of 800 people, that would dictate maybe 650 spots, if not more. Even if average occupancy is 200 people, they still have to build for the exception.

It's dictated by local land-use regulations, generally relating to a ratio of so many parking spaces per so many square feet of store. 

It can vary, but in NJ, generally it's 5 parking spots per 1,000 sq ft of building space.  So a 200,000 sq ft Walmart would have about 1,000 parking spots.  And based on that, you would get the minimum number of handicap spots needed as well.

I found this website for one of NJ's towns - scroll down and you can see all the various parking spot requirements based on the type of business:  http://ecode360.com/13493205

In cities & urban areas the requirement would be much less.

[Bruce]

I'm so glad Seattle is getting rid of their parking lots and replacing them with new skyscrapers. Parking lots are fine in car-dependent areas, but not butting up against tall buildings in the middle of dense downtowns.

[wphiii]

I'm so glad Seattle is getting rid of their parking lots and replacing them with new skyscrapers. Parking lots are fine in car-dependent areas, but not butting up against tall buildings in the middle of dense downtowns.

Yeah, the huge swath of surface parking on the western side of downtown Cleveland continues to pain me.

[getemngo]

The parking lot of the Wal-Mart in Lewisville, Texas was originally built without any barriers to prevent cross-lot driving. this lasted a few years, and unbelievably, they redid the lot to have islands separating every other row to stop this. I was impressed that a business actually did something to improve safety in their lot.

Businesses are extra reluctant to do this in northern states, because it makes removing snow a lot more difficult.

[triplemultiplex]

Would you keep the building?

How would you address the effect of years of motor fluid seeping in?

I'm assuming the parking lot is all that survived.

Oil, antifreeze, gasoline, various other greases and fluids... Hmm.
I can only hope the porous gravel underneath will allow it to be diluted and washed away by infiltrating water once the pavement is removed.

[jakeroot]

Random fact: Walmart typically has a portion of the parking lot toward the back where they stripe the spaces using opposite color paint (e.g. yellow striping when most of the spots are white). That's where the employees are forced to park. Source: a friend worked for Walmart in college.

It's true...Wal-Mart near Puyallup, Wash: