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Stangest Traffic Lights

Started by tribar, March 25, 2015, 05:30:17 PM

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tribar

What are some of the strangest looking traffic lights you've seen?

http://www.angelfire.com/rnb/miscia/trafficsig.html

There's some interesting ones on here.  Especially the Illinois and Missouri pages. 

Also, are there any traffic signals with more than 5 sets of lights on the same pole?


Big John

^^ A recent ppost showed a 6-section signal in Quebec.  US MUTCD does not allow this but there may be stray ones out there. (There was one near Appleton WI but was replaced. https://www.google.com/maps/@44.262079,-88.469425,3a,75y,358.06h,87.16t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1szP7I4I5mDNLmplF2WDbgAA!2e0)

davewiecking

That's a great one-if you go backwards a click, it seems to show both red and green lit
simultaneously.

tribar

Quote from: Big John on March 25, 2015, 05:47:37 PM
^^ A recent ppost showed a 6-section signal in Quebec.  US MUTCD does not allow this but there may be stray ones out there. (There was one near Appleton WI but was replaced. https://www.google.com/maps/@44.262079,-88.469425,3a,75y,358.06h,87.16t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1szP7I4I5mDNLmplF2WDbgAA!2e0)

I should have been more clear.  I meant to say something like this
http://www.billburmaster.com/rmsandw/illinois/images/sigblmtnnbn51_1007.jpg
But with more than five sets of lights.

Thanks for showing that other picture though.  Intersting to see. 

Big John

Quote from: tribar on March 25, 2015, 06:15:35 PM
Quote from: Big John on March 25, 2015, 05:47:37 PM
^^ A recent ppost showed a 6-section signal in Quebec.  US MUTCD does not allow this but there may be stray ones out there. (There was one near Appleton WI but was replaced. https://www.google.com/maps/@44.262079,-88.469425,3a,75y,358.06h,87.16t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1szP7I4I5mDNLmplF2WDbgAA!2e0)

I should have been more clear.  I meant to say something like this
http://www.billburmaster.com/rmsandw/illinois/images/sigblmtnnbn51_1007.jpg
But with more than five sets of lights.

Thanks for showing that other picture though.  Intersting to see. 
From a recent post on longest cantilevered mast arms: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.917612,-84.466583,3a,75y,344.04h,86.49t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sWy61eK1UMM9T_44a8gGi_A!2e0?hl=en

tribar

Quote from: Big John on March 25, 2015, 06:28:38 PM
Quote from: tribar on March 25, 2015, 06:15:35 PM
Quote from: Big John on March 25, 2015, 05:47:37 PM
^^ A recent ppost showed a 6-section signal in Quebec.  US MUTCD does not allow this but there may be stray ones out there. (There was one near Appleton WI but was replaced. https://www.google.com/maps/@44.262079,-88.469425,3a,75y,358.06h,87.16t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1szP7I4I5mDNLmplF2WDbgAA!2e0)

I should have been more clear.  I meant to say something like this
http://www.billburmaster.com/rmsandw/illinois/images/sigblmtnnbn51_1007.jpg
But with more than five sets of lights.

Thanks for showing that other picture though.  Intersting to see. 
From a recent post on longest cantilevered mast arms: https://www.google.com/maps/@33.917612,-84.466583,3a,75y,344.04h,86.49t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sWy61eK1UMM9T_44a8gGi_A!2e0?hl=en

Can I have link to that topic/post?

SignGeek101

#6
Quote from: Big John on March 25, 2015, 05:47:37 PM
^^ A recent ppost showed a 6-section signal in Quebec.  US MUTCD does not allow this but there may be stray ones out there. (There was one near Appleton WI but was replaced. https://www.google.com/maps/@44.262079,-88.469425,3a,75y,358.06h,87.16t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1szP7I4I5mDNLmplF2WDbgAA!2e0)

Found my old post:

Quote from: SignGeek101 on February 16, 2015, 01:18:33 PM
Found a light with six signals:

http://goo.gl/maps/cUA82

There we go. It was there as of July. That (and the one across the street) are the only 6 option traffic lights I've seen in Canada anyway.

EDIT: There are quite a few around, at least nearby.

It looks old, notice the red square shape on the top light and the yellow diamond shape for the yellow lights. I'm pretty sure that was an old practice in Eastern Canada to help people with colour blindness or something. I don't think they install lights like that anymore now.

Big John


KG909

~Fuccboi

jeffandnicole

Quote from: tribar on March 25, 2015, 05:30:17 PM
Also, are there any traffic signals with more than 5 sets of lights on the same pole?

All together, there's 9 lights on this single assembly on the Strip (Las Vegas Blvd) in Vegas at Harmon Blvd:  http://goo.gl/maps/qkqAX

3 overhead for the triple left turn lanes.  4 overhead for the Strip NB.  1 side mounted for the Strip NB.  1 side mounted for left turning traffic coming from the Aria/Cosmo.


SignGeek101

http://goo.gl/maps/e1vvn

Not so much the lights, but what's holding it up.

Big John


JKRhodes

#12


These are common on Apache Trail and Main Street in Apache Junction and Mesa, AZ: The main road is a divided highway with a wide median.

So it's technically two intersections, hence the extra signals, though the signal in the background changes a few seconds after the one in the median to allow traffic to clear and effectively allow it to operate as one intersection..

A similar setup exists on SR 87 in Payson at the Mazatzal Casino

JKRhodes


jeffandnicole


JKRhodes

Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 07, 2015, 08:26:58 AM
Quote from: roadiejay on April 07, 2015, 08:11:29 AM
http://goo.gl/maps/UaLq7 there's the one in Payson

What's strange about this?

The fact that a driver on the side street faces two sets of mast-arm assemblies to navigate one intersection makes it an oddity, in my opinion. My guess is that it's the old way of signaling divided highway intersections, since the width of the median technically makes the crossing of each carriageway its own intersection.

I note that the newer divided highway intersections east of Apache Junction on US 60 are signaled more traditionally, with only one set of mast-arm assemblies for each direction of travel.

The one in Payson is especially interesting, as it has optically programmed signal heads on the far sides.

roadfro

Quote from: roadiejay on April 07, 2015, 08:07:22 AM


These are common on Apache Trail and Main Street in Apache Junction and Mesa, AZ: The main road is a divided highway with a wide median.

So it's technically two intersections, hence the extra signals, though the signal in the background changes a few seconds after the one in the median to allow traffic to clear and effectively allow it to operate as one intersection..

A similar setup exists on SR 87 in Payson at the Mazatzal Casino

Quote from: roadiejay on April 07, 2015, 06:30:29 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 07, 2015, 08:26:58 AM
Quote from: roadiejay on April 07, 2015, 08:11:29 AM
http://goo.gl/maps/UaLq7 there's the one in Payson

What's strange about this?

The fact that a driver on the side street faces two sets of mast-arm assemblies to navigate one intersection makes it an oddity, in my opinion. My guess is that it's the old way of signaling divided highway intersections, since the width of the median technically makes the crossing of each carriageway its own intersection.

I note that the newer divided highway intersections east of Apache Junction on US 60 are signaled more traditionally, with only one set of mast-arm assemblies for each direction of travel.

The one in Payson is especially interesting, as it has optically programmed signal heads on the far sides.


The width of the median on the main street doesn't create two separate intersections in either of these cases.

The wide median (possibly in conjunction with skewed street angles) does create signal visibility issues for the side streets. MUTCD requires overhead signal faces need to be within a certain distance from the stop line. The wide median forces signals to be installed in the median to meet such requirements. The signals on the far side of the intersection are used as repeaters and clearance, so vehicles still in the wide intersection can see the signal indications--the delayed change to yellow/red on the far side signals is a traffic signal controller modification (a type of overlap) used to ensure drivers in the intersection have enough time to clear the intersection without thinking they they are in intersection on red.


Boulder Highway in the Las Vegas/Henderson, NV is very similar.
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

JKRhodes

Quote from: roadfro on April 07, 2015, 10:27:17 PM
Quote from: roadiejay on April 07, 2015, 08:07:22 AM


These are common on Apache Trail and Main Street in Apache Junction and Mesa, AZ: The main road is a divided highway with a wide median.

So it's technically two intersections, hence the extra signals, though the signal in the background changes a few seconds after the one in the median to allow traffic to clear and effectively allow it to operate as one intersection..

A similar setup exists on SR 87 in Payson at the Mazatzal Casino

Quote from: roadiejay on April 07, 2015, 06:30:29 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 07, 2015, 08:26:58 AM
Quote from: roadiejay on April 07, 2015, 08:11:29 AM
http://goo.gl/maps/UaLq7 there's the one in Payson

What's strange about this?

The fact that a driver on the side street faces two sets of mast-arm assemblies to navigate one intersection makes it an oddity, in my opinion. My guess is that it's the old way of signaling divided highway intersections, since the width of the median technically makes the crossing of each carriageway its own intersection.

I note that the newer divided highway intersections east of Apache Junction on US 60 are signaled more traditionally, with only one set of mast-arm assemblies for each direction of travel.

The one in Payson is especially interesting, as it has optically programmed signal heads on the far sides.


The width of the median on the main street doesn't create two separate intersections in either of these cases.

ARS 28-601 Subsection 8 begs to differ:
"8. "Intersection" means the area embraced within the prolongation or connection of the lateral curb lines, or if none, the lateral boundary lines of the roadways of two highways that join one another at, or approximately at, right angles, or the area within which vehicles traveling on different highways joining at any other angle may come in conflict. If a highway includes two roadways thirty or more feet apart, each crossing of each roadway of the divided highway by an intersecting highway is a separate intersection. If the intersecting highway also includes two roadways thirty or more feet apart, each crossing of two roadways of the highways is a separate intersection" (emphasis added)

QuoteThe wide median (possibly in conjunction with skewed street angles) does create signal visibility issues for the side streets. MUTCD requires overhead signal faces need to be within a certain distance from the stop line. The wide median forces signals to be installed in the median to meet such requirements. The signals on the far side of the intersection are used as repeaters and clearance, so vehicles still in the wide intersection can see the signal indications--the delayed change to yellow/red on the far side signals is a traffic signal controller modification (a type of overlap) used to ensure drivers in the intersection have enough time to clear the intersection without thinking they they are in intersection on red.


Boulder Highway in the Las Vegas/Henderson, NV is very similar.

Boulder Highway is a divided highway that was urbanized, signalized and eventually bypassed by a full freeway in much the same era as the old US 60 corridor in Mesa and Apache Junction. This is an indication of the era in which those signals were installed.

By contrast, the intersection at Mountainbrook Drive in Gold Canyon has a similar median width to Apache trail at ironwood drive and only has one set of signal heads for the side street. It's worth noting that the Ironwood intersection was signalized several decades ago, and the Mountainbrook intersection was signalized around 2001. At King's ranch Road, the median is over 100 feet wide and still only equipped with one assembly for the side street.

Until I see a specific citation of the MUTCD for the conditions you describe and modern examples of the same, I'm calling the cited examples of double signaling at divided highways a remnant of a bygone era in highway intersection design.

mapman1071

Quote from: roadiejay on April 07, 2015, 11:28:57 PM
Quote from: roadfro on April 07, 2015, 10:27:17 PM
Quote from: roadiejay on April 07, 2015, 08:07:22 AM


These are common on Apache Trail and Main Street in Apache Junction and Mesa, AZ: The main road is a divided highway with a wide median.

So it's technically two intersections, hence the extra signals, though the signal in the background changes a few seconds after the one in the median to allow traffic to clear and effectively allow it to operate as one intersection..

A similar setup exists on SR 87 in Payson at the Mazatzal Casino

Quote from: roadiejay on April 07, 2015, 06:30:29 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 07, 2015, 08:26:58 AM
Quote from: roadiejay on April 07, 2015, 08:11:29 AM
http://goo.gl/maps/UaLq7 there's the one in Payson

What's strange about this?

The fact that a driver on the side street faces two sets of mast-arm assemblies to navigate one intersection makes it an oddity, in my opinion. My guess is that it's the old way of signaling divided highway intersections, since the width of the median technically makes the crossing of each carriageway its own intersection.

I note that the newer divided highway intersections east of Apache Junction on US 60 are signaled more traditionally, with only one set of mast-arm assemblies for each direction of travel.

The one in Payson is especially interesting, as it has optically programmed signal heads on the far sides.


The width of the median on the main street doesn't create two separate intersections in either of these cases.

ARS 28-601 Subsection 8 begs to differ:
"8. "Intersection" means the area embraced within the prolongation or connection of the lateral curb lines, or if none, the lateral boundary lines of the roadways of two highways that join one another at, or approximately at, right angles, or the area within which vehicles traveling on different highways joining at any other angle may come in conflict. If a highway includes two roadways thirty or more feet apart, each crossing of each roadway of the divided highway by an intersecting highway is a separate intersection. If the intersecting highway also includes two roadways thirty or more feet apart, each crossing of two roadways of the highways is a separate intersection" (emphasis added)

QuoteThe wide median (possibly in conjunction with skewed street angles) does create signal visibility issues for the side streets. MUTCD requires overhead signal faces need to be within a certain distance from the stop line. The wide median forces signals to be installed in the median to meet such requirements. The signals on the far side of the intersection are used as repeaters and clearance, so vehicles still in the wide intersection can see the signal indications--the delayed change to yellow/red on the far side signals is a traffic signal controller modification (a type of overlap) used to ensure drivers in the intersection have enough time to clear the intersection without thinking they they are in intersection on red.


Boulder Highway in the Las Vegas/Henderson, NV is very similar.

Boulder Highway is a divided highway that was urbanized, signalized and eventually bypassed by a full freeway in much the same era as the old US 60 corridor in Mesa and Apache Junction. This is an indication of the era in which those signals were installed.

By contrast, the intersection at Mountainbrook Drive in Gold Canyon has a similar median width to Apache trail at ironwood drive and only has one set of signal heads for the side street. It's worth noting that the Ironwood intersection was signalized several decades ago, and the Mountainbrook intersection was signalized around 2001. At King's ranch Road, the median is over 100 feet wide and still only equipped with one assembly for the side street.

Until I see a specific citation of the MUTCD for the conditions you describe and modern examples of the same, I'm calling the cited examples of double signaling at divided highways a remnant of a bygone era in highway intersection design.


As the City of Mesa expands East of Power Road to Meridian Road along Apache Trail the street will be renamed to Main Street and would be redesigned. The rename has been done in the past as Mesa has expanded East of Gilbert Road in the 1970's and 80's.

JKRhodes

Quote from: mapman1071
As the City of Mesa expands East of Power Road to Meridian Road along Apache Trail the street will be renamed to Main Street and would be redesigned. The rename has been done in the past as Mesa has expanded East of Gilbert Road in the 1970's and 80's.

It's an interesting corridor. I shop occasionally at the stores in the old Walmart building off of Signal Butte and main/apache/whatever, and just recently noticed the Harbor Freight there bills itself as an Apache Junction store. I was always given to assume that virtually everything west of Meridian (and hence, in Maricopa County) was considered part of Mesa, whether in city limits or ZIP. In reality, it's quite a patchwork.

I suppose annexation may be somewhat far off as much of the current expansion focus seems to be taking place in the "Gateway" region.

Brandon

Quote from: roadiejay on April 07, 2015, 06:30:29 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on April 07, 2015, 08:26:58 AM
Quote from: roadiejay on April 07, 2015, 08:11:29 AM
http://goo.gl/maps/UaLq7 there's the one in Payson

What's strange about this?

The fact that a driver on the side street faces two sets of mast-arm assemblies to navigate one intersection makes it an oddity, in my opinion. My guess is that it's the old way of signaling divided highway intersections, since the width of the median technically makes the crossing of each carriageway its own intersection.

I note that the newer divided highway intersections east of Apache Junction on US 60 are signaled more traditionally, with only one set of mast-arm assemblies for each direction of travel.

The one in Payson is especially interesting, as it has optically programmed signal heads on the far sides.

That's not so strange.  It's commonly done along dual carriageway roads in Michigan, and also commonly done at railroad crossings.

Dual carriageway roads:
https://www.google.com/maps/@42.312563,-83.272323,3a,75y,96.13h,94.59t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s4nhczeqSrPa8O_K3b6ErIA!2e0

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.444298,-83.239432,3a,75y,179.21h,83.61t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sGUQzT2co0DAR_jFSI692eA!2e0

Railroad crossings:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.640891,-88.049203,3a,75y,91.52h,85.59t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sImUqN2J8gxU5O70KCwLpyQ!2e0

https://www.google.com/maps/@42.196851,-88.218007,3a,75y,62.64h,87.2t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s_UIeosJFcM5BRQQbrkq81w!2e0
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

TEG24601

Quote from: roadiejay on April 07, 2015, 08:07:22 AM


These are common on Apache Trail and Main Street in Apache Junction and Mesa, AZ: The main road is a divided highway with a wide median.

So it's technically two intersections, hence the extra signals, though the signal in the background changes a few seconds after the one in the median to allow traffic to clear and effectively allow it to operate as one intersection..

A similar setup exists on SR 87 in Payson at the Mazatzal Casino


This arrangement is also common on Michigan Expressways that were built to accommodate a future freeway, or simply built with excessive medians.  M-59 between Van Dyke and I-94 is like this.  Complete with stop lines in the medians.
They said take a left at the fork in the road.  I didn't think they literally meant a fork, until plain as day, there was a fork sticking out of the road at a junction.

roadfro

Quote from: roadiejay on April 07, 2015, 11:28:57 PM
Quote from: roadfro on April 07, 2015, 10:27:17 PM
The width of the median on the main street doesn't create two separate intersections in either of these cases.

ARS 28-601 Subsection 8 begs to differ:
"8. "Intersection" means the area embraced within the prolongation or connection of the lateral curb lines, or if none, the lateral boundary lines of the roadways of two highways that join one another at, or approximately at, right angles, or the area within which vehicles traveling on different highways joining at any other angle may come in conflict. If a highway includes two roadways thirty or more feet apart, each crossing of each roadway of the divided highway by an intersecting highway is a separate intersection. If the intersecting highway also includes two roadways thirty or more feet apart, each crossing of two roadways of the highways is a separate intersection" (emphasis added)

So Arizona Revised Statutes call it two separate intersections (and Nevada apparently has a similar definition). Functionally, it is one intersection.

Quote
Boulder Highway is a divided highway that was urbanized, signalized and eventually bypassed by a full freeway in much the same era as the old US 60 corridor in Mesa and Apache Junction. This is an indication of the era in which those signals were installed.

By contrast, the intersection at Mountainbrook Drive in Gold Canyon has a similar median width to Apache trail at ironwood drive and only has one set of signal heads for the side street. It's worth noting that the Ironwood intersection was signalized several decades ago, and the Mountainbrook intersection was signalized around 2001. At King's ranch Road, the median is over 100 feet wide and still only equipped with one assembly for the side street.

Until I see a specific citation of the MUTCD for the conditions you describe and modern examples of the same, I'm calling the cited examples of double signaling at divided highways a remnant of a bygone era in highway intersection design.

A rough Google Maps distance measurement of the US 60/Mountainbrook Drive median width gives me ~55 feet (at intersection center). The distance from signal heads to stop line appears to be roughly 180 feet or so.

Similar measurement at Apache Trail & Ironwood Drive also gives roughly 180 feet from the stop line to signal heads on the far side of the intersection. But this intersection has the double/median mast setup.

Going back to Boulder Highway in Henderson:
*Sunset Road intersection signals have been in place for many years. Signal distance is ~185 feet. Double/median signals are used. (a lot of older 3M programmed visibility heads at that intersection).
*Lake Mead Pkwy intersection signals were reconstructed in the last ~5-10 years. Signal distance is also ~185 feet. No double/median signals.
Boulder Hwy width is constant between these intersections.


The current MUTCD seems to allow signals to be placed up to 180 feet from the stop line where 12" signals are used (120 feet with 8" signals) without supplemental near-side signal heads. Distances above 150 feet require engineering judgement to evaluate sight distance and worst-case visibility issues in determining if a near-side signal would be beneficial. {Sec. 4D.14 & Figure 4D-4}

The current standard seems to allow new signal installations in these divided highway situations to not need signals in the median. I would imagine (but cannot confirm at the moment) that older signal head distance had to require something closer to the stop line (especially if smaller signal heads were in use).
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.

roadman65

Quote from: roadiejay on April 07, 2015, 08:07:22 AM


These are common on Apache Trail and Main Street in Apache Junction and Mesa, AZ: The main road is a divided highway with a wide median.

So it's technically two intersections, hence the extra signals, though the signal in the background changes a few seconds after the one in the median to allow traffic to clear and effectively allow it to operate as one intersection..

A similar setup exists on SR 87 in Payson at the Mazatzal Casino
New Jersey has some of them, but the second signal has the 3M signal heads so that it can only be seen after approaching the first one. 

This is to deter signal jumpers as seeing the first one red and the second one green might cause someone to run the first intersection's red light to make the second one's green.

Even two completely different intersections within a few hundred feet of each other have signal number two with 3M's as well within New Jersey in some locations.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

KEK Inc.

Howabout a downward angled arrow.

https://www.google.com/maps/@47.661208,-122.293115,3a,22.7y,81.46h,92.3t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1simj3hOa-j5PGDMJffK_cYA!2e0

They updated the intersection, but it still has the same angled arrow, with a better sign that indicates the intended flow.  The right left turn lane is part of the phase from 35th Ave NE. 
Take the road less traveled.



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