ESPN: Raiders Moving to Las Vegas

[Max Rockatansky]

Having an NFL team in Vegas makes sense because, as people have already mentioned, fans of other teams will just plan their Vegas vacations around the game. Build a football-themed casino resort owned by the team, offer vacation packages including game tickets and they'll get tons of people.

I feel like this might be a bit of a long term problem though. It's a magnification of the problems faced by any Sun Belt expansion team, people generally already have allegiances and it's more difficult to establish a local base of support. You don't want a team where every home game is basically an away game.

As long as butts are in the seats does it really matter?  That's how a lot of Phoenix sports teams got by for years on ticket sales.  You'd have a huge following from the opposing team that would buy up a chunk of the unsold tickets whether they were local residents or just people on vacation.  Back when the Lions and Cardinals were really bad they would basically play each other in Arizona every other year.  I would speculate one third of the stadium was Detroit fans.  You'd think that would be a huge thing in Las Vegas with people coming in from out of town or just among the crowd that moved Vegas.

Merch sales are a big one and there is actually a psychological advance to having a home crowd that actually cheers for you (the Seahawks under this one very well). If you want a terrible team that just acts as a way for transplants to see their favorite teams, this model works.

Which is basically how things worked in Phoenix until the local fan-base figured out the Bidwells had been historic cheap-skates and basically started to refused the follow the team.  Surprisingly that seemed to got their attention or at minimum they got Kurt Warner when it looked like he was finished.  Now the team has a pretty decent following...used to be a total Denver Broncos town.

If a Las Vegas team would be fine with that then that's fine.

The Raiders may have some advantage in getting local traction since they're already a known commodity.

The weird thing to me is that there is a ton of Raiders fans that I know out here in California.  Almost none of them feel bad that they are moving to Las Vegas or not going to L.A.  They all seem pretty excited they can go see their team when they head up to Vegas.  I guess that's the weird thing about the Raiders team, I always kind of felt like they were the "state" team unlike something like the 49ers which seems to have a much more localized following the Bay Area.  There are a ton of Californian transplants already out in Vegas so I don't think a home following will be the same issue it was in Phoenix.

[SP Cook]

The other winner here, IMHO, is UNLV.    UNLV currently plays in Sam Boyd Stadium, which is an aminity free stadium far off campus and pretty much on the edge of the populated area.  Way off campus and pretty much out of sight out of mind.  UNLV will be a co-tenant in this deal, which will be located just next to campus.  Combined with the new hockey arena, which is taking events previously housed at UNLV.'s Thomas & Mack Center, thus freeing it up for basketball uses without worrying about other acts, I can see UNLV moving up in the world.

Another thing moving up will be the LV Bowl.  Generally one of those forgettable bowls, and often burdened with BYU (whose fans, as the saying goes, came to town with a $10 bill and copy of the 10 Commandments and broke neither), suddenly becomes one of the top of the non playoff bowls. 

As to the idea that a lot of Raider fans will come in from NoCal or SoCal or elsewhere and see the games, probably.  But the one word of caution is what happened with NASCAR.  The casinos spent a lot of $$ developing the NASCAR track on pretty much the same idea.  Turned out that NASCAR fans show up at the track watch the race and go home, without setting foot on the casino floors.

[nexus73]

Raider Nation is all over the nation.  I also liked Max's description of the Raiders being the "state" team.  There have been games in San Diego which were loaded up with Silver and Black fans.  The Raiders are bigtime popular in the Southland as well.  As an Oregonian, I grew up watching the AFL and AFC, which featured Raider games, so they're liked in the Beaver State as well although the long losing season streak has taken the bloom off their rose.

Now we see the Raiders coming up in the standings.  About the time a Vegas stadium is completed, this team will be solidly in the hunt for the Super Bowl once more.

Rick

[cl94]

The Raiders, like the Bills, Cowboys and Steelers, have fans everywhere. Everywhere. I don't know if they're like the Bills with backer bars in every state and a dozen countries, but the Raiders are a national team.

[Alps]

The Raiders, like the Bills, Cowboys and Steelers, have fans everywhere. Everywhere. I don't know if they're like the Bills with backer bars in every state and a dozen countries, but the Raiders are a national team.

Nationally despised for the antics of their fans, that is. (Though not so much lately, I'll admit.)

[cl94]

I do not associate with the idiots at what is now known as New Era Field that Deadspin and SportsCenter show every Sunday. The videos from this weekend were nothing short of shocking.

As far as bars, yeah, the Raiders have them, but not nearly as many as the Bills, who have around 200 backer bars, almost all outside of the market area and most major cities in the US have at least one. I don't think any other team comes close to that.

[bing101]

So...what does that do for the Chargers' chances to move out of San Diego and become Kroenke's stadium partner? Also, is Oakland now on the clock for a makeup franchise (maybe Jacksonville or even....horrors....New Orleans after Tom Benson's passing) like what Houston and Baltimore got after the Oilers/Titans and Colts bolted?

Oakland has other issues such as the Warriors moving to San Francisco and the Oakland A's moving to San Jose (allegedly).

[epzik8]

The Las Vegas Raiders. Ridiculous.

[1995hoo]

The Las Vegas Raiders. Ridiculous.

Sounds better than St. Louis Rams, which never sounded right even after 20 years.

[Rothman]

The Las Vegas Raiders. Ridiculous.

Sounds better than St. Louis Rams, which never sounded right even after 20 years.

Two words:  Utah Jazz.  'Nuff said.

[The Nature Boy]

The Las Vegas Raiders. Ridiculous.

Sounds better than St. Louis Rams, which never sounded right even after 20 years.

Two words:  Utah Jazz.  'Nuff said.

If you know the history behind the name, the Los Angeles Dodgers is pretty ridiculous sounding too.

The Dodgers name comes from trolley dodging and was a reference to the dangers of the trolleys in Brooklyn at the turn of the century.

[cl94]

The Las Vegas Raiders. Ridiculous.

Sounds better than St. Louis Rams, which never sounded right even after 20 years.

Two words:  Utah Jazz.  'Nuff said.

If you know the history behind the name, the Los Angeles Dodgers is pretty ridiculous sounding too.

The Dodgers name comes from trolley dodging and was a reference to the dangers of the trolleys in Brooklyn at the turn of the century.

I agree. Heck, I know a ton of people upset that they didn't change the name when they moved.

[jp the roadgeek]

The Las Vegas Raiders. Ridiculous.

Sounds better than St. Louis Rams, which never sounded right even after 20 years.

Two words:  Utah Jazz.  'Nuff said.

If you know the history behind the name, the Los Angeles Dodgers is pretty ridiculous sounding too.

The Dodgers name comes from trolley dodging and was a reference to the dangers of the trolleys in Brooklyn at the turn of the century.

I agree. Heck, I know a ton of people upset that they didn't change the name when they moved.

Same with the Lakers.  10,000 lakes in Minnesota.  Not so many in Cali.

After 32 years, many think Indianapolis Colts still sounds weird.

[74/171FAN]

Same with the Lakers.  10,000 lakes in Minnesota.  Not so many in Cali.

Should I mention that there are no Grizzlies in Memphis?  (originally was the Vancouver Grizzlies)

[TXtoNJ]

It's way too hot for an outdoor stadium, and I've yet to see an indoor stadium that offers any sort of enjoyable atmosphere.  Unlike football where noise can really mess with an opponent making a dome an asset (not to mention keeping the team out of freezing temps), baseball communication is mostly done by signals.

Meh...just play the games at night.  I remember the Cardinals when they were in Sun Devil Stadium.  Most of their games were during the day and it never really bothered me unless it was over 110F.  Vegas is about 10-15F cooler than Phoenix on an average day and it's bone dry.

Average highs are well over 100 in Vegas as well, approaching 115 - 120 degrees.  Even at 7pm, temps will still be a stifling 105 - 110.  And I don't care how low the humidity is, it's still fricken hot at that temperature.

All teams play at night during the week except for the occasional day game, so that's nothing unusual.  Even the Cubs try playing as many night games as possible.

I know, I lived there.  Fricken hot yes, stifling...meh not really.  An average 90F in Orlando or Tampa was way worse than a 110 F in Las Vegas.  The worst was a post-monsoon day in Phoenix since the humidity would linger for almost a full day at 50-70%. Not that I'm saying say in a hypothetical situation where a MLB went to Vegas that they wouldn't get a retractable dome.  They sure did one in Phoenix and you have a lot more tourists who aren't used to the blast furnace that wouldn't go otherwise. 

Creative scheduling can fix this issue as well. Play the first two games away, and the third one at night, and you're all the way to the first weekend of October, where the average high in Vegas is 86. It might be hot in Vegas, but it cools off pretty quickly from being so high up and so far north.

Besides, I don't think anyone else in the NFL would mind playing more Vegas games in winter.

[cl94]

It's way too hot for an outdoor stadium, and I've yet to see an indoor stadium that offers any sort of enjoyable atmosphere.  Unlike football where noise can really mess with an opponent making a dome an asset (not to mention keeping the team out of freezing temps), baseball communication is mostly done by signals.

Meh...just play the games at night.  I remember the Cardinals when they were in Sun Devil Stadium.  Most of their games were during the day and it never really bothered me unless it was over 110F.  Vegas is about 10-15F cooler than Phoenix on an average day and it's bone dry.

Average highs are well over 100 in Vegas as well, approaching 115 - 120 degrees.  Even at 7pm, temps will still be a stifling 105 - 110.  And I don't care how low the humidity is, it's still fricken hot at that temperature.

All teams play at night during the week except for the occasional day game, so that's nothing unusual.  Even the Cubs try playing as many night games as possible.

I know, I lived there.  Fricken hot yes, stifling...meh not really.  An average 90F in Orlando or Tampa was way worse than a 110 F in Las Vegas.  The worst was a post-monsoon day in Phoenix since the humidity would linger for almost a full day at 50-70%. Not that I'm saying say in a hypothetical situation where a MLB went to Vegas that they wouldn't get a retractable dome.  They sure did one in Phoenix and you have a lot more tourists who aren't used to the blast furnace that wouldn't go otherwise. 

Creative scheduling can fix this issue as well. Play the first two games away, and the third one at night, and you're all the way to the first weekend of October, where the average high in Vegas is 86. It might be hot in Vegas, but it cools off pretty quickly from being so high up and so far north.

Besides, I don't think anyone else in the NFL would mind playing more Vegas games in winter.

Of course, the northern teams won't necessarily like that. Bills, Vikings, Packers, Bears and Browns have a huge advantage in December at home because they're used to the weather.

[Max Rockatansky]

It's way too hot for an outdoor stadium, and I've yet to see an indoor stadium that offers any sort of enjoyable atmosphere.  Unlike football where noise can really mess with an opponent making a dome an asset (not to mention keeping the team out of freezing temps), baseball communication is mostly done by signals.

Meh...just play the games at night.  I remember the Cardinals when they were in Sun Devil Stadium.  Most of their games were during the day and it never really bothered me unless it was over 110F.  Vegas is about 10-15F cooler than Phoenix on an average day and it's bone dry.

Average highs are well over 100 in Vegas as well, approaching 115 - 120 degrees.  Even at 7pm, temps will still be a stifling 105 - 110.  And I don't care how low the humidity is, it's still fricken hot at that temperature.

All teams play at night during the week except for the occasional day game, so that's nothing unusual.  Even the Cubs try playing as many night games as possible.

I know, I lived there.  Fricken hot yes, stifling...meh not really.  An average 90F in Orlando or Tampa was way worse than a 110 F in Las Vegas.  The worst was a post-monsoon day in Phoenix since the humidity would linger for almost a full day at 50-70%. Not that I'm saying say in a hypothetical situation where a MLB went to Vegas that they wouldn't get a retractable dome.  They sure did one in Phoenix and you have a lot more tourists who aren't used to the blast furnace that wouldn't go otherwise. 

Creative scheduling can fix this issue as well. Play the first two games away, and the third one at night, and you're all the way to the first weekend of October, where the average high in Vegas is 86. It might be hot in Vegas, but it cools off pretty quickly from being so high up and so far north.

Besides, I don't think anyone else in the NFL would mind playing more Vegas games in winter.

Of course, the northern teams won't necessarily like that. Bills, Vikings, Packers, Bears and Browns have a huge advantage in December at home because they're used to the weather.

Not sure if you are all aware but it does every now and then actually snow in Vegas.  The lows in December/January are actually in the high 30s annually.  You can have a 40 degree temperature swing basically at any given point during the year due to lack of moisture in the atmosphere. 

[Alps]

It's way too hot for an outdoor stadium, and I've yet to see an indoor stadium that offers any sort of enjoyable atmosphere.  Unlike football where noise can really mess with an opponent making a dome an asset (not to mention keeping the team out of freezing temps), baseball communication is mostly done by signals.

Meh...just play the games at night.  I remember the Cardinals when they were in Sun Devil Stadium.  Most of their games were during the day and it never really bothered me unless it was over 110F.  Vegas is about 10-15F cooler than Phoenix on an average day and it's bone dry.

Average highs are well over 100 in Vegas as well, approaching 115 - 120 degrees.  Even at 7pm, temps will still be a stifling 105 - 110.  And I don't care how low the humidity is, it's still fricken hot at that temperature.

All teams play at night during the week except for the occasional day game, so that's nothing unusual.  Even the Cubs try playing as many night games as possible.

I know, I lived there.  Fricken hot yes, stifling...meh not really.  An average 90F in Orlando or Tampa was way worse than a 110 F in Las Vegas.  The worst was a post-monsoon day in Phoenix since the humidity would linger for almost a full day at 50-70%. Not that I'm saying say in a hypothetical situation where a MLB went to Vegas that they wouldn't get a retractable dome.  They sure did one in Phoenix and you have a lot more tourists who aren't used to the blast furnace that wouldn't go otherwise. 

Creative scheduling can fix this issue as well. Play the first two games away, and the third one at night, and you're all the way to the first weekend of October, where the average high in Vegas is 86. It might be hot in Vegas, but it cools off pretty quickly from being so high up and so far north.

Besides, I don't think anyone else in the NFL would mind playing more Vegas games in winter.

Of course, the northern teams won't necessarily like that. Bills, Vikings, Packers, Bears and Browns have a huge advantage in December at home because they're used to the weather.

The Browns only have two advantages: bye week and offseason.

[Buck87]

Of course, the northern teams won't necessarily like that. Bills, Vikings, Packers, Bears and Browns have a huge advantage in December at home because they're used to the weather.

You can take the Vikings off that list, they're back to playing indoors after only 2 interim seasons outside while they went from one dome to another.

[SP Cook]

- The proposed LV stadium will be a dome.  Game time temps will be 72.

- Agree with all of the noted above dumb team nicknames when teams have moved.  To that list you can add the Arizona Cardinals.  Cardinals are among the most common and widely distributed North American birds.  Found about everywhere.  Except in the desert southwest.    Of course, there are not a lot of tigers in Detroit or Cincinnati either. 

[Max Rockatansky]

- The proposed LV stadium will be a dome.  Game time temps will be 72.

- Agree with all of the noted above dumb team nicknames when teams have moved.  To that list you can add the Arizona Cardinals.  Cardinals are among the most common and widely distributed North American birds.  Found about everywhere.  Except in the desert southwest.    Of course, there are not a lot of tigers in Detroit or Cincinnati either.

But don't forget that one of the biggest Ponderosa Pine Forest in the world is on the Mogollon Rim in Arizona.  I thought about this too yesterday but there is actually a crap ton of Cardinals up on the Rim.  Now if it was Phoenix Cardinals it wouldn't make any sense, but the way the teamed is named now with "Arizona" it actually is semi-accurate given the state isn't entirely desert.  Besides...Coyotes and Diamond Backs are taken, it wouldn't leave a whole to go with....maybe the Gila Monsters or Havalina?

Now the odd thing about the Detroit Lions was that they were called the Portsmouth Spartans before they moved to Detroit.  Given Michigan State was a thing back then it's actually kind of strange that the name didn't carry over to Detroit.  Supposedly the "Lions" name was a play on the Detroit Tigers.  The Pistons seemed like a natural fit custom named for the city but they actually had the name in Fort Wayne.  The Red Wings were called the Cougars and Falcons before adopting the modern name which has more to do with the background of the new owner in the 1930s than anything automotive.

The whole Bengals color scheme and name comes from a play on the fact Paul Brown was the coach for the Cleveland Browns.  The color scheme is very close to the Browns and they have an associate with "Dogs" with the old Dog Pound....hence the cat name.

[jeffandnicole]

I think cold weather games are more media hype than reality. It's hard to find stats on home wins in December on the web, but Superbowl winning teams come from all over the nation, and generally you have to win several games in December and January in order to make it to the Superbowl.

As for the Bills and Browns, they have a combined 0 Superbowl wins, so I don't know if those December games have an advantage for them. On the other hand, there's the Bears, Steelers, Patriots and Packers.

As far as scheduling games, they don't schedule based on historical weather conditions. About the only thing taken into consideration is if the stadium is in use for another event. And TV decides what games are played at night, not temperatures.

[SP Cook]

- There is a pretty good PBS documentary called something like "when football was a small town game" about the early NFL and teams like Portsmouth. 

- Lots of the older NFL teams are somewhat of a "play" on the, at the time, lone established and far more popular, MLB teams.  Redskins, which started in Boston, was a combination of the town's two MLB teams, red from the Red Sox and then an Indian motief from the Braves.    Bears was a play on the Cubs.  And Lions was a play on Tigers.  The orignal name of the AFL Jets, the Titans, was a shot at the established NFL Giants, as a Titan is the only thing larger than a Giant in Greek mythology. 

- Bengals.  There are people who will swear that the orignal Bengals uniforms actually were the Browns uniforms from six years previous on the theory that, as an NFL head coach, he somehow had the Browns uniforms in the trunk of his car to take to the cleaners when he was fired.  It is, of course, a myth.  However, yes, Brown, deliberately picked the same shade of orange as the Browns, and the very plain original helments with only the block letter "BENGALS".   The logo people also produced helmets that looked a lot like the current ones and ones that resembled Clemson's current ones.

- Brown was able to do this because it was an AFL expansion team, and they did not care what the Browns thought about it.  Later when the merged NFL expanded to Tampa Bay, the original colors were to be a green and blue theme, but the NFL ruled that it was too close to the Dolphins and they went with the original orange and red colors, which were a deliberate play on the orange from Florida and the secondary color of Florida State red.

- Weather.  IMHO, we are pushing the NFL too late into winter.  The Super Bowl used to be mid-January.   And, dome or not, there is no reason to play is in the north.  Someday we WILL see a playoff game where the transportation infastructure will simply be shut down due to a storm.  Not a fan of watching people dressed for winter watching the World Series either. 

[bing101]

http://www.bizjournals.com/sanfrancisco/news/2016/10/27/sheldon-adelson-oakland-raiders-las-vegas.html

Update on the Stadium deal in Vegas.

[jp the roadgeek]

And in some cases, the NFL team shared the name of the baseball team in that town.  The Steelers were originally known as the Pirates, and share the Pirates' colors to this day.  The Giants are named after the former baseball team, and the Redskins were first known as the Braves.  There were also Brooklyn, Cincinnati, Cleveland, Detroit, and Hartford teams named after then (or past) baseball franchises.  There were 2 New York Yankees football teams, but 1 was a relocated team from Boston and had no relation to the baseball franchise a la The St Louis Football Cardinals, who had no relation to the baseball Cardinals because they originated in Chicago.