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Radar detectors illegal in Virginia

Started by LM117, May 13, 2018, 07:33:35 AM

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LM117

Quote from: seicer on May 15, 2018, 12:14:34 AMrevenue traps.

The General Assembly attempted to put a stop to it a few years ago when they passed a budget amendment that reduced the amount of ticket revenue local governments could keep. However, Hopewell (well-known for it's I-295 speed trap) apparently took a huge financial hit from it so it's delegate, Riley Ingram, helped cram a bill through the General Assembly in 2016 that repealed the amendment.

http://www.progress-index.com/news/20161001/another-chance-for-hopewells-million-dollar-mile

As froggie and myself noted some time ago, if a local government has to rely on ticket revenue that much to stay afloat, then they have a big problem.
“I don’t know whether to wind my ass or scratch my watch!” - Jim Cornette


VTGoose

Quote from: Beltway on May 15, 2018, 06:20:41 AM

Small town and county police officers and departments are subject to the same police accreditation and certification procedures and standards as are those in the big cities and state police, each state has their own board.  It is a fallacy to think that they are rubes and hicks.

Accreditation may have helped (along with changes in command) but Blacksburg had/has its share of rubes and hicks. A favorite tactic was to run radar at the bottom of a hill knowing people would pick up speed due to gravity. The cops also tend to hide while Virginia Tech is in session, but come out with their radar guns during breaks to try to catch the townies (who pretty much pay their salaries through taxes). Biggest rube is the motorcycle cop who comes out in the summer, parks his bike under a shade tree, puts his feet up and lights up a cigarette, then occasionally points his radar gun at an oncoming car. Since he is so obvious, no one is anywhere close to the speed limit (let alone exceeding it) when they pass.

Radar has its place when there is a known problem, but using it just to harass motorists is wrong (and no, I haven't received a ticket in decades).

Bruce in Blacksburg
"Get in the fast lane, grandma!  The bingo game is ready to roll!"

Beltway

Quote from: LM117 on May 15, 2018, 07:41:08 AM
However, Hopewell (well-known for it's I-295 speed trap) apparently took a huge financial hit from it so it's delegate, Riley Ingram, helped cram a bill through the General Assembly in 2016 that repealed the amendment.
http://www.progress-index.com/news/20161001/another-chance-for-hopewells-million-dollar-mile

The speedaholic's definition of "speed trap", apparently.  As I have pointed out before, the city of Hopewell contains a segment of I-295 and the city is positioned so that they are solely situated to provide crash related emergency services (police, fire, rescue, hazmat, hospital and towing/salvage) on a major segment of I-295.

So they have a direct public interest in driver behavior on the highway, and per the Progress-Index article the speeds enforced and the number of summonses issued are entirely reasonable. 

Excerpts [bolding mine]

In Hopewell, both Anderson and his successor, current Hopewell Sheriff Luther Sodat, have publicly called the enforcement a matter of safety.

"Apparently (AAA's) definition of a speed trap and what I know of one are two different things,"  Sodat told The Progress-Index last week.

When it comes to I-295, the stated policy of the Hopewell Sheriff's Office is not to ticket any driver going less than 80 mph on the road, which has a speed limit of 70 mph. Once the driver's speed exceeds 85 mph, the deputy can issue a ticket for reckless driving.

Figures provided by Sodat to The Progress-Index record that in 2016, deputies issued an average of 835 tickets per month to interstate drivers going between 81 and 84 mph and about 316 tickets per month to drivers going 85 mph or above. Between January and August of this year, deputies have ticketed 369 drivers traveling over 90 mph and 27 additional drivers traveling over 100 mph. In total, tickets have been issued to over 9,200 drivers on the interstate since the beginning of the year – a not unusual count for the city since the I-295 Safety Program began.

Besides issuing traffic tickets, the program has also this year led to the arrest of 12 individuals on drug violations, the issuance of many dozen warrants and 1,262 warnings to motorists. Sodat sees the latter as evidence of the initiative's basis in safety concerns, asking, "If this was a speed trap, wouldn't we have written every one?"

Since the program's creation, the city of Hopewell has consistently backed the initiative. In 2012, then-mayor Christina Luman-Bailey opened a City Council meeting with a statement on the program that declared, "Insinuations that this program is a petty "˜speed trap/money grab' demonstrate an astounding ignorance of the facts. How could anyone who supports safe driving possibly object to tickets being issued to speeders of 81+ miles an hour?"  The city's proposed 2016 General Assembly legislative priorities described the remittances as "the state seizure of local fines and fees"  and stated that the practice was "based upon a misinterpretation of the Code of Virginia."

"If allowed to exist, these funds will continue to have a major impact on the city's public safety program,"  the document concluded.

Nevertheless, Sodat told The Progress-Index that his department's funding was not linked to fluctuations in revenue related to state remittances.  "I get nothing for this program. I don't get a pay increase,"  he said. "My money would be the same whether this program were here or not."

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Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

cpzilliacus

Quote from: Beltway on May 14, 2018, 03:40:11 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on May 14, 2018, 11:31:52 AM
City of Fairfax used to have extremely aggressive speed limit enforcement, but much of that seems to have gone away for reasons not clear to me.

How do you define "extremely aggressive speed limit enforcement"?

Very visible enforcement with radar, plenty of traffic stops (apparently for speed), and at least one write-up in the paper (IMO Falls Church is due for the same  treatment by the news media).   I don't think the City of Fairfax is as aggressive as they once were, at least not on speeding.

I do not believe any road or street in  Falls Church has a posted limit greater than 30 MPH, and most of it is 25.  They also have an "add-on" fine (IIRC $200) for speeding in residential areas, and since most of Falls Church is residential, most tickets for speeding are expensive there. 

I know Falls Church has disciplined its patrol officers for not writing at least two speeding tickets every shift.
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Thing 342

Quote from: Beltway on May 15, 2018, 10:21:37 AM
Quote from: LM117 on May 15, 2018, 07:41:08 AM
However, Hopewell (well-known for it's I-295 speed trap) apparently took a huge financial hit from it so it's delegate, Riley Ingram, helped cram a bill through the General Assembly in 2016 that repealed the amendment.
http://www.progress-index.com/news/20161001/another-chance-for-hopewells-million-dollar-mile

The speedaholic's definition of "speed trap", apparently.  As I have pointed out before, the city of Hopewell contains a segment of I-295 and the city is positioned so that they are solely situated to provide crash related emergency services (police, fire, rescue, hazmat, hospital and towing/salvage) on a major segment of I-295.

So they have a direct public interest in driver behavior on the highway, and per the Progress-Index article the speeds enforced and the number of summonses issued are entirely reasonable. 

Excerpts [bolding mine]

In Hopewell, both Anderson and his successor, current Hopewell Sheriff Luther Sodat, have publicly called the enforcement a matter of safety.

"Apparently (AAA's) definition of a speed trap and what I know of one are two different things,"  Sodat told The Progress-Index last week.

When it comes to I-295, the stated policy of the Hopewell Sheriff's Office is not to ticket any driver going less than 80 mph on the road, which has a speed limit of 70 mph. Once the driver's speed exceeds 85 mph, the deputy can issue a ticket for reckless driving.

...

Since the program's creation, the city of Hopewell has consistently backed the initiative. In 2012, then-mayor Christina Luman-Bailey opened a City Council meeting with a statement on the program that declared, "Insinuations that this program is a petty "˜speed trap/money grab' demonstrate an astounding ignorance of the facts. How could anyone who supports safe driving possibly object to tickets being issued to speeders of 81+ miles an hour?"  The city's proposed 2016 General Assembly legislative priorities described the remittances as "the state seizure of local fines and fees"  and stated that the practice was "based upon a misinterpretation of the Code of Virginia."
Sanctimony aside, the department's stated policy and actual practise are two entirely separate items. Have seen too many people be ticketed for going just over 70 through this stretch for to believe that this is actually the case. Also, I am curious as to why that much money is required to administer a fairly short (and relatively safe) stretch of highway.

Beltway

#30
Quote from: cpzilliacus on May 15, 2018, 10:52:39 AM
Quote from: Beltway on May 14, 2018, 03:40:11 PM
Quote from: cpzilliacus on May 14, 2018, 11:31:52 AM
City of Fairfax used to have extremely aggressive speed limit enforcement, but much of that seems to have gone away for reasons not clear to me.
How do you define "extremely aggressive speed limit enforcement"?
Very visible enforcement with radar, plenty of traffic stops (apparently for speed), and at least one write-up in the paper (IMO Falls Church is due for the same  treatment by the news media).   I don't think the City of Fairfax is as aggressive as they once were, at least not on speeding.
I do not believe any road or street in  Falls Church has a posted limit greater than 30 MPH, and most of it is 25.  They also have an "add-on" fine (IIRC $200) for speeding in residential areas, and since most of Falls Church is residential, most tickets for speeding are expensive there. 
I know Falls Church has disciplined its patrol officers for not writing at least two speeding tickets every shift.

You creatively snipped the specific "speed-plus" parameters that I posted per my work with a PD.

What you posted above is irrelevant unless you post similar specific "speed-plus" parameters for what Falls Church does.

If they were grossly exceeding the limit then I don't care how many get stopped.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

Beltway

Quote from: Thing 342 on May 15, 2018, 11:05:26 AM
Quote from: Beltway on May 15, 2018, 10:21:37 AM
As I have pointed out before, the city of Hopewell contains a segment of I-295 and the city is positioned so that they are solely situated to provide crash related emergency services (police, fire, rescue, hazmat, hospital and towing/salvage) on a major segment of I-295.
So they have a direct public interest in driver behavior on the highway, and per the Progress-Index article the speeds enforced and the number of summonses issued are entirely reasonable. 
Sanctimony aside, the department's stated policy and actual practise are two entirely separate items. Have seen too many people be ticketed for going just over 70 through this stretch for to believe that this is actually the case.

Oh sure, you "watched" repeatedly at what speeds vehicles were being stopped for.  You just rode along in the traffic stream near the vehicles and verified that they were "going just over 70".   Yeah sure uh-huh.  Or else if you weren't there you accepted someone else's story.

Whenever someone claims that they got a summons for barely exceeding a speed limit, I then request they cite how many times with specifics they got stopped for 15, 20, 25 or more over the limit.  Usually they won't say anything.

I have driven over a million miles and have -never- been ticketed except one time for 16 over, and I routinely travel at 5 to 7 miles over and cruise control helps there even on low speed roads.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

cpzilliacus

Quote from: Beltway on May 15, 2018, 03:19:07 PM
You creatively snipped the specific "speed-plus" parameters that I posted per my work with a PD.

Relevance?  I don't believe you have ever worked for the Falls Church Police Department.

Quote from: Beltway on May 15, 2018, 03:19:07 PM
What you posted above is irrelevant unless you post similar specific "speed-plus" parameters for what Falls Church does.

That's your opinion and you are entitled to it.  I am not going to ask the Falls Church Police Department about  such things, as it is a waste of my time and theirs.

Quote from: Beltway on May 15, 2018, 03:19:07 PM
If they were grossly exceeding the limit then I don't care how many get stopped.

As I stated upthread, Falls Church officers have been disciplined for not writing two speeding tickets per shift. 

But it may be difficult for them to catch speeders, since people who live in or near Falls Church know not to speed there, and the supply of out-of-town suckers is limited (none of I-66 is within the municipal limits of Falls Church).
Opinions expressed here on AAROADS are strictly personal and mine alone, and do not reflect policies or positions of MWCOG, NCRTPB or their member federal, state, county and municipal governments or any other agency.

Beltway

Quote from: cpzilliacus on May 24, 2018, 11:56:26 PM
Quote from: Beltway on May 15, 2018, 03:19:07 PM
You creatively snipped the specific "speed-plus" parameters that I posted per my work with a PD.
Relevance?  I don't believe you have ever worked for the Falls Church Police Department.
Quote from: Beltway on May 15, 2018, 03:19:07 PM
What you posted above is irrelevant unless you post similar specific "speed-plus" parameters for what Falls Church does.
That's your opinion and you are entitled to it.  I am not going to ask the Falls Church Police Department about  such things, as it is a waste of my time and theirs.
Quote from: Beltway on May 15, 2018, 03:19:07 PM
If they were grossly exceeding the limit then I don't care how many get stopped.
As I stated upthread, Falls Church officers have been disciplined for not writing two speeding tickets per shift. 
But it may be difficult for them to catch speeders, since people who live in or near Falls Church know not to speed there, and the supply of out-of-town suckers is limited (none of I-66 is within the municipal limits of Falls Church).

So you're not going to post any actual LE data on the matter, just dance and handwave around my challenge of your claim of "used to have extremely aggressive speed limit enforcement".

There is certainly nothing "aggressive" about writing two speeding tickets per shift (8 hours or more).  I can go to any locale in the country and easily see a dozen violations of +20 mph or more in an hour.
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

jeffandnicole

My experiences in VA - on their highways - are typical of what Beltway quoted of the Sheriff's office: Driving under 80 mph is perfectly fine. 

When people see a local cop on a highway, they instantly think it's a speed trap town.  Yet, I find that it's all talk and no actual proof.  A cop behind a car on the shoulder isn't proof of a speed trap town.  That cop could've pulled up behind a disabled vehicle, or pulled over one of those 100 mph+ speeders. 

SP Cook

All traffic enforcement is illegitimate.  All traffic enforcers are as far from serious, and thus respect deserving, law enforcement workers as William Shatner is from a real astronaut. 

And, since the nattering nabobs spewed their idiocy and gloomed and doomed about repealing the evil NMSL, only to be proven DEAD WRONG as higher speed = more safety, please do not talk about "safety".  You simply do not know what you are talking about.  You were proven wrong.  Yet you still spew.  How sad.

ONE of the problems we have in this country is police - community relations.  ONE cause of that problem are traffic cops and jurisdictions that treat law enforcement as a revenue positive element of their government.  If we were serious about making society better, we would illegalize no radar detectors, but radar guns.

And, if, as the framers intended, 100% of fines went to other places besides the jurisdictions and the cops, there would be ZERO traffic tickets.  Because it is all about money.

abefroman329

#36
Quote from: SP Cook on May 25, 2018, 09:16:24 AM
ONE of the problems we have in this country is police - community relations.  ONE cause of that problem are traffic cops and jurisdictions that treat law enforcement as a revenue positive element of their government.

That's pretty low on the list of reasons why.  "The fact that cops literally get away with murder" is higher.

jeffandnicole

Quote from: SP Cook on May 25, 2018, 09:16:24 AM
All traffic enforcement is illegitimate.  All traffic enforcers are as far from serious, and thus respect deserving, law enforcement workers as William Shatner is from a real astronaut. 

Who's up for drag racing in front of SP's house at 3am while doped up?


Beltway

Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 25, 2018, 09:48:13 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 25, 2018, 09:16:24 AM
All traffic enforcement is illegitimate.  All traffic enforcers are as far from serious, and thus respect deserving, law enforcement workers as William Shatner is from a real astronaut. 
Who's up for drag racing in front of SP's house at 3am while doped up?

Anyone who repeatedly makes statements like "all traffic enforcement is illegitimate", -is- likely the person who would drag race in front of your house at 3am while doped up.  :pan:
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

hbelkins

Quote from: Beltway on May 25, 2018, 09:57:02 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 25, 2018, 09:48:13 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 25, 2018, 09:16:24 AM
All traffic enforcement is illegitimate.  All traffic enforcers are as far from serious, and thus respect deserving, law enforcement workers as William Shatner is from a real astronaut. 
Who's up for drag racing in front of SP's house at 3am while doped up?

Anyone who repeatedly makes statements like "all traffic enforcement is illegitimate", -is- likely the person who would drag race in front of your house at 3am while doped up.  :pan:

Watching two guys (S.P. and Scott) who normally agree on most issues and are typically of the same mind ideologically is quite interesting.

Reminds me of a story that I saw in the Lexington Herald-Leader today. I would post the link, but that would be gratuitously inserting politics into this thread, and Abefroman and Webny99 would both have a fit.  :-D


Government would be tolerable if not for politicians and bureaucrats.

abefroman329

Quote from: hbelkins on May 25, 2018, 10:27:44 AM
Quote from: Beltway on May 25, 2018, 09:57:02 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 25, 2018, 09:48:13 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 25, 2018, 09:16:24 AM
All traffic enforcement is illegitimate.  All traffic enforcers are as far from serious, and thus respect deserving, law enforcement workers as William Shatner is from a real astronaut. 
Who's up for drag racing in front of SP's house at 3am while doped up?

Anyone who repeatedly makes statements like "all traffic enforcement is illegitimate", -is- likely the person who would drag race in front of your house at 3am while doped up.  :pan:

Watching two guys (S.P. and Scott) who normally agree on most issues and are typically of the same mind ideologically is quite interesting.

Reminds me of a story that I saw in the Lexington Herald-Leader today. I would post the link, but that would be gratuitously inserting politics into this thread, and Abefroman and Webny99 would both have a fit.  :-D

Oh, go ahead, I've already gratuitously inserted politics into an earlier post.

US71

Quote from: hbelkins on May 25, 2018, 10:27:44 AM
Quote from: Beltway on May 25, 2018, 09:57:02 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 25, 2018, 09:48:13 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 25, 2018, 09:16:24 AM
All traffic enforcement is illegitimate.  All traffic enforcers are as far from serious, and thus respect deserving, law enforcement workers as William Shatner is from a real astronaut. 
Who's up for drag racing in front of SP's house at 3am while doped up?

Anyone who repeatedly makes statements like "all traffic enforcement is illegitimate", -is- likely the person who would drag race in front of your house at 3am while doped up.  :pan:

Watching two guys (S.P. and Scott) who normally agree on most issues and are typically of the same mind ideologically is quite interesting.

Reminds me of a story that I saw in the Lexington Herald-Leader today. I would post the link, but that would be gratuitously inserting politics into this thread, and Abefroman and Webny99 would both have a fit.  :-D

Besides, as a long time member of the forum, you know gratuitous political attacks and mud slinging are generally frowned upon.   :whip:
Like Alice I Try To Believe Three Impossible Things Before Breakfast

abefroman329

That "generally" is doing some heavy lifting on the level of Atlas carrying the world on his shoulders.

kkt

Quote from: hbelkins on May 13, 2018, 03:27:03 PM
^^^ So this basically means that even if you come to a full stop before or upon crossing the state line, remove your radar detector from its mount and then place it elsewhere in a hatchback, SUV, or other vehicle without a separate trunk, you are in violation of the law because technically it would still be accessible to the driver or passengers.

What a load of crap.

I typically take mine down while in motion and stick it in the console compartment.

Yet another reason to dislike driving in Virginia.

You don't stop to take things down from your windshield?  Wow.

Brandon

Quote from: kkt on May 25, 2018, 11:51:02 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 13, 2018, 03:27:03 PM
^^^ So this basically means that even if you come to a full stop before or upon crossing the state line, remove your radar detector from its mount and then place it elsewhere in a hatchback, SUV, or other vehicle without a separate trunk, you are in violation of the law because technically it would still be accessible to the driver or passengers.

What a load of crap.

I typically take mine down while in motion and stick it in the console compartment.

Yet another reason to dislike driving in Virginia.

You don't stop to take things down from your windshield?  Wow.

That's not what he said.  He does take it down.  The problem is that with the way the asinine law is written, if it's not in a lockable trunk, he's still in violation, even with it in the console.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg

abefroman329

How is the texting-while-driving law written in Illinois?  Would it be a violation if you just had your phone resting on your leg and were observed looking down at it, or would the cop actually need to see you looking down at the phone and performing some sort of typing-esque motion with one of your hands?

jeffandnicole

Quote from: abefroman329 on May 25, 2018, 12:03:20 PM
How is the texting-while-driving law written in Illinois?  Would it be a violation if you just had your phone resting on your leg and were observed looking down at it, or would the cop actually need to see you looking down at the phone and performing some sort of typing-esque motion with one of your hands?

"Distracted Driving" or "Careless Driving" can be used for this, regardless if you're looking at your phone, a book, or any other reason why you would be looking at your lap and not out the windshield.

Beltway

#47
Quote from: US71 on May 25, 2018, 11:00:16 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 25, 2018, 10:27:44 AM
Quote from: Beltway on May 25, 2018, 09:57:02 AM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on May 25, 2018, 09:48:13 AM
Quote from: SP Cook on May 25, 2018, 09:16:24 AM
All traffic enforcement is illegitimate.  All traffic enforcers are as far from serious, and thus respect deserving, law enforcement workers as William Shatner is from a real astronaut. 
Who's up for drag racing in front of SP's house at 3am while doped up?
Anyone who repeatedly makes statements like "all traffic enforcement is illegitimate", -is- likely the person who would drag race in front of your house at 3am while doped up.  :pan:
Watching two guys (S.P. and Scott) who normally agree on most issues and are typically of the same mind ideologically is quite interesting.
Reminds me of a story that I saw in the Lexington Herald-Leader today. I would post the link, but that would be gratuitously inserting politics into this thread, and Abefroman and Webny99 would both have a fit.  :-D

My disagreements about certain driver behavior issues on roads forums goes back 20 years.

Certain posters, whether they realize it or not, provide a "proxy image" of the mindset of certain driver types that I encounter on the roads and highways.  Whether that "assignment" is "fair" or not, it is a reality.

Quote from: US71 on May 25, 2018, 11:00:16 AM
Besides, as a long time member of the forum, you know gratuitous political attacks and mud slinging are generally frowned upon.   :whip:

But if the thread is in "Off Topic", doesn't that mean that they are less generally frowned upon than if they were in road-related groups? :clap:
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

Beltway

Quote from: Brandon on May 25, 2018, 11:58:19 AM
Quote from: kkt on May 25, 2018, 11:51:02 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 13, 2018, 03:27:03 PM
What a load of crap.
I typically take mine down while in motion and stick it in the console compartment.
Yet another reason to dislike driving in Virginia.
You don't stop to take things down from your windshield?  Wow.
That's not what he said.  He does take it down.  The problem is that with the way the asinine law is written, if it's not in a lockable trunk, he's still in violation, even with it in the console.

If you dislike driving in Virginia, then don't.  Problem solved.   :-]
http://www.roadstothefuture.com
http://www.capital-beltway.com

Baloney is a reserved word on the Internet
    (Robert Coté, 2002)

Brandon

Quote from: Beltway on May 25, 2018, 02:45:34 PM
Quote from: Brandon on May 25, 2018, 11:58:19 AM
Quote from: kkt on May 25, 2018, 11:51:02 AM
Quote from: hbelkins on May 13, 2018, 03:27:03 PM
What a load of crap.
I typically take mine down while in motion and stick it in the console compartment.
Yet another reason to dislike driving in Virginia.
You don't stop to take things down from your windshield?  Wow.
That's not what he said.  He does take it down.  The problem is that with the way the asinine law is written, if it's not in a lockable trunk, he's still in violation, even with it in the console.

If you dislike driving in Virginia, then don't.  Problem solved.   :-]

Well thank you, John Nestor.
"If you think this has a happy ending, you haven't been paying attention." - Ramsay Bolton

"Symbolic of his struggle against reality." - Reg



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