Harassment by law enforcement or security while out taking pictures

Started by MNHighwayMan, June 19, 2018, 07:11:11 PM

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jeffandnicole

Quote from: US71 on June 20, 2018, 11:39:46 AM
Considering they basically live in a box for 8 hours a day. I've been known to try to joke with them and some respond and others act like they have a stick up their butt.

Many toll takers aren't exactly the most sociable to others on the road.  They're also government workers.  It's easy to record an interaction with them now, do a little editing, and suddenly the toll collector is being called in for making a smart ass or discriminatory remark.

In the past, before videoing was made easier, people just called complaints in and it's your word against theirs. 

Conversations can go sour real quick as well.  I had one person ask me for directions how to get someplace. I gave them directions.  They quickly argued back saying that their MapQuest directions say something else so why am I giving them bad directions?  (Why are you asking me for directions then?) This was in 2003. MapQuest was new.  Their directions were often incorrect.  I had another driver argue they shouldn't have to pay the full toll because their directions told them to take a back road and enter thru a restricted road behind a rest area.

Thus, they don't tend to talk to too many people.  Nothing against you, but they can just as easily talk to their co-workers in the next booth over, or read a book, or look at their phones.

As for me, if they wanted to take a video or a picture when going thru my toll lane, I didn't care.  The faster they went thru, the better.  If I sat there and argued with them, traffic backs up behind them, and now they have video of me arguing with a patron.  Simply not worth it.

Quote from: ET21 on June 20, 2018, 11:28:40 AM
Toll takers are assholes. I had one yell at me for using the cash lanes with my I-Pass. I pointed over to the backup in the open toll lanes and the sensor above our heads and said "Sorry I'm being smarter."

I guess my only question would be - why are you stopping?  In the mixed-mode toll booths I go thru frequently, people with EZ Pass just keep going.  The toll taker isn't even looking. 


Max Rockatansky

Quote from: oscar on June 19, 2018, 08:24:32 PM
I've had a few brief encounters with military police, most recently when I took a photo of an emergency callbox on one of Hawaii's newer and more remote highways. The MP pointed out that the highway there passed through an Army base, and that I really shouldn't be making non-emergency stops on that part of the highway (I think he really didn't want me to take pictures of a military airfield up ahead). The military tends to be really camera-shy, and an Act of Congress explicitly authorizes it to restrict photography of military facilities, so the MPs stand on firmer ground than civilian police or rent-a-cops.

Usually there will be some sort of signage saying "US Government Propert, no trespassing."    I have a bunch of photos of old US 1 on south side of Boca Chica Key which part of the NAS property.  I was surprised that the area was accessible on foot and even had a parking area the first time I was there considering it is at the end of a runway.  The last time I went through I was taking photos with a Monroe County Sheriff car just sitting there.  The officers told me there was an old shanty down the way on the old highway that probably would look cool in my photos...so much for that secure area. 

ET21

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 20, 2018, 12:04:18 PM
Quote from: US71 on June 20, 2018, 11:39:46 AM
Considering they basically live in a box for 8 hours a day. I've been known to try to joke with them and some respond and others act like they have a stick up their butt.

Many toll takers aren't exactly the most sociable to others on the road.  They're also government workers.  It's easy to record an interaction with them now, do a little editing, and suddenly the toll collector is being called in for making a smart ass or discriminatory remark.

Quote from: ET21 on June 20, 2018, 11:28:40 AM
Toll takers are assholes. I had one yell at me for using the cash lanes with my I-Pass. I pointed over to the backup in the open toll lanes and the sensor above our heads and said "Sorry I'm being smarter."

I guess my only question would be - why are you stopping?  In the mixed-mode toll booths I go thru frequently, people with EZ Pass just keep going.  The toll taker isn't even looking.

I-Pass lane in the cash lanes would be backed up as well. Most of the time its faster to go through the toll taker lanes to get around the bottleneck of both the open road and the I-Pass cash lane. I easily shave 5-10 mins off at the two booths I'd need to go through
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roadman

I was questioned by a state trooper for taking photos exactly once.  This was several years ago on I-95 northbound approaching the Canton interchange.  I was taking the photos for a work assignment, was wearing a safety vest and hard hat with the MassHighway logo, and was also in a state vehicle.

Trooper was polite, asked me what I was doing, gave me a "OK, no problem", and then went away.
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vdeane

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 20, 2018, 12:04:18 PM
I guess my only question would be - why are you stopping?  In the mixed-mode toll booths I go thru frequently, people with EZ Pass just keep going.  The toll taker isn't even looking. 
I don't know about other states, but on the Thruway it's required in mixed lanes, and the toll taker has to manually acknowledge the transaction.
Please note: All comments here represent my own personal opinion and do not reflect the official position of NYSDOT or its affiliates.

jeffandnicole

The federal government doesn't like people taking pictures on Gunnison Beach in Sandy Hook, NJ.  Although up there, civilians tend to take care of the problem until law enforcement arrives...or takes care if the problem themselves.  :)

jeffandnicole

Quote from: vdeane on June 20, 2018, 01:01:46 PM
Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 20, 2018, 12:04:18 PM
I guess my only question would be - why are you stopping?  In the mixed-mode toll booths I go thru frequently, people with EZ Pass just keep going.  The toll taker isn't even looking. 
I don't know about other states, but on the Thruway it's required in mixed lanes, and the toll taker has to manually acknowledge the transaction.

Oh wow.  In NJ it's automatic...the reader display at the end of the toll lane pops up 'EZ Pass Paid' once the transponder is detected.

Motorists are supposed to be courteous and slow down to 5 mph in a staffed lane...that doesn't normally happen either.

paulthemapguy

Quote from: US71 on June 19, 2018, 09:25:37 PM
I usually find myself harassed by locals rather than police, often accused of trespassing, even though I'm on a public roadway.

This is what I'm more worried about as well.  Hell, I got ordered by some invalid just this past week to get off his property, while I was situated completely on county ROW-- and I WORK for the county DOT!!  :rofl: :rofl:

I could have gotten the county sheriff to explain my rights to the guy, but I had more work to do.
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PHLBOS

Quote from: abefroman329 on June 19, 2018, 09:15:03 PM
I think this sort of thing is far more common when filming or photographing airplanes or trains, although even that depends on the scenario. Based on the videos I saw, it looked like quite a few amateur photographers were allowed to film the landing of the first A380 in revenue service at ORD.
Harassment by law enforcement for taking pictures or even stopping to watch planes take-off and/or land was a lot more prevalent right after 9/11/01.  Look through any archived thread in aviation-themed websites like airliners.net, Nycavaition.com, and so forth to see stories & accounts of such.

Thankfully, most of that has since waned but; to this day, one will still be approached & chased off by police if one is parked in the Elizabeth, NJ Ikea parking lot & taking pictures of planes coming to/from the adjacent Newark Airport (EWR).

Long story short; it varies from airport to airport.
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roadman65

I was once in Davenport on CSX property photographing a Baldwin Locomotive or an EMD (whatever it was its rare nowadays in the GP Locomotive world) and some dude wearing a cowboy hat and boots came out of a building on Lem Carnes Road where the former Sand and Basilica Office was (now its part of the plant that Rinker now owns) and said he does not like strangers on his land with a camera poking around.

Despite his claim, he had no authority to say what I could do on Railroad Property and when I explained how rare his locomotive was he had no clue what a rare gem his property is to the rail fanning community.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

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roadman65

Quote from: jeffandnicole on June 20, 2018, 01:03:55 PM
The federal government doesn't like people taking pictures on Gunnison Beach in Sandy Hook, NJ.  Although up there, civilians tend to take care of the problem until law enforcement arrives...or takes care if the problem themselves.  :)
I believe the nudists have their own people called the Friends of Gunnison and rumor has it they have caught anyone taking pics of children running around nude (yes its okay for adults and children to be nude there or in family nudist resorts, but in real life if a parent walks nude in front of children nude it could cause protect services to take away the kid and banner the parent as an offender) usually by a doofus (as the nude beach scene always attracts hermit types of riff raff)or single male, they will toss his camera in the ocean!

Do not know if they are that aggressive, but I hear that many clothing optional supporters try real hard to make the political right see that the nude lifestyle hates creeps and offenders.
Every day is a winding road, you just got to get used to it.

Sheryl Crowe

TheHighwayMan3561

I've only gotten one guy working on his lawn get snippy about me taking photos of some old street blades. That was quite a long time ago now. I was nervous about snapping the first US 53/71 assembly in International Falls in 2016 as it's right in front of customs, but no one approached me.

I recall somebody who took photos of the I-95 border station in Houlton soon after 9/11 got grilled by three agencies for it.
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Brandon

Never really been harassed by law enforcement while taking photographs, but I have gotten strange looks from some while taking photographs during the course of my job.  That tends to happen during phase I environmental site assessments.  I have to take photos of the property and looking at surrounding properties for part of the assessment.
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rickmastfan67

Quote from: PHLBOS on June 20, 2018, 04:03:04 PM
Quote from: abefroman329 on June 19, 2018, 09:15:03 PM
I think this sort of thing is far more common when filming or photographing airplanes or trains, although even that depends on the scenario. Based on the videos I saw, it looked like quite a few amateur photographers were allowed to film the landing of the first A380 in revenue service at ORD.
Harassment by law enforcement for taking pictures or even stopping to watch planes take-off and/or land was a lot more prevalent right after 9/11/01.  Look through any archived thread in aviation-themed websites like airliners.net, Nycavaition.com, and so forth to see stories & accounts of such.

Thankfully, most of that has since waned but; to this day, one will still be approached & chased off by police if one is parked in the Elizabeth, NJ Ikea parking lot & taking pictures of planes coming to/from the adjacent Newark Airport (EWR).

Long story short; it varies from airport to airport.

I personally had no issues when I took some plane photos during the open house along PA Turnpike 576.  Even took a few from inside the 576 W -> I-376 W loop ramp in that grass area.  No problems.  And to be honest, was the first time I'd been even remotely close to the airport in my entire life.

MNHighwayMan

Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 20, 2018, 05:32:05 PM
I've only gotten one guy working on his lawn get snippy about me taking photos of some old street blades. That was quite a long time ago now. I was nervous about snapping the first US 53/71 assembly in International Falls in 2016 as it's right in front of customs, but no one approached me.

I know if I'm ever in International Falls that I'm going to want to get some pictures of that whole setup of US-53/71 and MN-11... I'm just concerned that Border Patrol is going to do everything short of cavity search me if they find me taking pictures.

Duke87

We had a local cop stop and ask us what was going on as we were setting up the meet photo for the Cape May mini-meet a few years back. According to him we weren't supposed to be parked on the bridge where we were taking the photo (false, as there was no sign saying this). He let us proceed with taking the picture once we explained what we were doing, but he did hang around to make sure we took the picture and then moved along quickly.

The only other time I've been "harrased" was for taking a picture of the Cross Bronx Expressway from the Jerome Avenue overpass. The cop was pretty polite, never asked for my name or ID or anything, and was basically just like "yeah I saw you taking a picture of the Cross Bronx, that's a major highway, so I had to check you out".


Somewhat relevant story - back in 2012(?) I stopped to take pictures of the flower pots that RCMP had then recently placed across the last street crossing the border in Derby Line, VT/Stanstead, QC that was otherwise unbarricaded and had no customs facility. When I got there, there was a US Border Patrol vehicle parked right next to the flower potted street. Wanting to proactively avoid any potentially unpleasant interaction, I walked up the the border patrol agent and asked if there would be any issue with me taking pictures there. He told me in not as many words "go ahead, just don't step over the line into Canada". I took a few pictures and then moved along.
If you always take the same road, you will never see anything new.

noelbotevera

Hasn't really happened to me, but I don't take pictures much (I haven't even downloaded my pics from the CSVT meet!).

The only time I remember was during the CSVT meet. The directions told us to park at a trailer park to get views of a bridge. It turns out everyone was at the entrance of the construction site a few hundred feet down the road, and we wondered where everyone was. The owner of the trailer park (an old woman) gave us inaccurate directions, then told us to move along.

US71

Quote from: MNHighwayMan on June 23, 2018, 09:20:31 PM
Quote from: TheHighwayMan394 on June 20, 2018, 05:32:05 PM
I've only gotten one guy working on his lawn get snippy about me taking photos of some old street blades. That was quite a long time ago now. I was nervous about snapping the first US 53/71 assembly in International Falls in 2016 as it's right in front of customs, but no one approached me.

I know if I'm ever in International Falls that I'm going to want to get some pictures of that whole setup of US-53/71 and MN-11... I'm just concerned that Border Patrol is going to do everything short of cavity search me if they find me taking pictures.

I was there last year: didn't have any problems.
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slorydn1

I never really had any issues that I can think of. I may have gotten a weird glance from a member of the public or two, but I have never been stopped or questioned by actual authorities for taking pictures.

I did refrain from taking pictures or video in public for a little while right after 9/11, as I waited for the public hysteria to die down. I guess that came from working the other side of a 911 line. God forbid a car lingered for more than a few seconds after the light turned green or took the back way out of a shopping center-they must be planting a bomb or something! I'm not kidding, it was ridiculous for about the first month or so.
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jjakucyk

Quote from: Duke87 on June 24, 2018, 01:19:51 AM
According to him we weren't supposed to be parked on the bridge where we were taking the photo (false, as there was no sign saying this).

Many municipalities prohibit parking on bridges, and signs are not required.  I don't know if it's statewide anywhere, but it's one of those "ignorance of the law" situations.  It's not unlike the "no parking within 30 feet" signs you sometimes see under stop signs. Although that's usually a state law, even if the sign isn't there you still can't park closer than 30 feet.  Same for fire hydrants, parking over the curb, in an intersection, on a crosswalk, or in front of a driveway. 

sparker

Back in the '80's when I was doing a lot of railroad photography, I occasionally had run-ins with RR cops (who in fact are considered sworn law-enforcement agents).  The old Western Pacific used to be one of the "cooler" lines in that regard; their cops, who patrolled the lines in "hi-rail" pickup trucks (FYI, this was usually along Niles Canyon or over Altamont Pass) didn't bug you unless you were trying to go out on one of their bridges or into tunnels.  When they were an independent entity, the line ran local trains with vintage first-generation diesel locomotives (EMD F7's, among others) that regularly showed up between Fremont and Stockton; their in-house cops seemed to realize this and were more than tolerant of photogs that didn't pose a problem or otherwise interfere with rail operations.  Once Big Yellow (UP) took over after 1983, there was a sea change -- much of the main WP line previously accessible to the public was fenced off, and patrols were much more frequent.  Of course, freight traffic tripled once UP had ownership of the line, since they no longer split the freight handoffs in Utah between SP and WP, so it's understandable that security would have been tightened accordingly.  But even off-property (usually in an unfenced area near Pleasanton with a nice track view) the cops would slow down their trucks and yell at me to "get the fuck out of here".  Apparently (and this was corroborated by a train-crew member) UP cops are under orders to discourage photography of daily operations (but are more than accommodating for their periodic steam excursions!).  After 1983, I ended up photographing mainly SP lines; in '84 I actually followed the 4449 "Daylight" excursion, heading to the New Orleans Worlds' Fair, from Dunsmuir south through the Bay Area, back up to Sacramento, and then southeast as far as Yuma (had to get back to work at some point!).  Not a single issue with security on that trip; but I guess in a way I'm lucky that due to knee problems I stopped traipsing around RR lines taking pictures in the mid-90's -- especially since UP bought SP back in '96.   

roadman

Quote from: sparker on June 24, 2018, 08:21:00 PM
Back in the '80's when I was doing a lot of railroad photography, I occasionally had run-ins with RR cops (who in fact are considered sworn law-enforcement agents).  The old Western Pacific used to be one of the "cooler" lines in that regard; their cops, who patrolled the lines in "hi-rail" pickup trucks (FYI, this was usually along Niles Canyon or over Altamont Pass) didn't bug you unless you were trying to go out on one of their bridges or into tunnels.  When they were an independent entity, the line ran local trains with vintage first-generation diesel locomotives (EMD F7's, among others) that regularly showed up between Fremont and Stockton; their in-house cops seemed to realize this and were more than tolerant of photogs that didn't pose a problem or otherwise interfere with rail operations.  Once Big Yellow (UP) took over after 1983, there was a sea change -- much of the main WP line previously accessible to the public was fenced off, and patrols were much more frequent.  Of course, freight traffic tripled once UP had ownership of the line, since they no longer split the freight handoffs in Utah between SP and WP, so it's understandable that security would have been tightened accordingly.  But even off-property (usually in an unfenced area near Pleasanton with a nice track view) the cops would slow down their trucks and yell at me to "get the fuck out of here".  Apparently (and this was corroborated by a train-crew member) UP cops are under orders to discourage photography of daily operations (but are more than accommodating for their periodic steam excursions!).  After 1983, I ended up photographing mainly SP lines; in '84 I actually followed the 4449 "Daylight" excursion, heading to the New Orleans Worlds' Fair, from Dunsmuir south through the Bay Area, back up to Sacramento, and then southeast as far as Yuma (had to get back to work at some point!).  Not a single issue with security on that trip; but I guess in a way I'm lucky that due to knee problems I stopped traipsing around RR lines taking pictures in the mid-90's -- especially since UP bought SP back in '96.   
When I used to visit my brother in Greensboro in the early 1990s, one of my favorite places to railfan was Pomona Yard, which at the time had both a dedicated switcher and three local trains that originated there - in addition to the mainline run-through traffic.  At that time, it was also the Amtrak station - so you could sit in the parking lot all day and/or hang out on the station platform and never get hassled.

Last time I was there was in 2004, after the Amtrak station had been moved back downtown.  What was the old Amtrak station had been re-purposed as the area office for the Norfolk Southern railroad police.  Given the NS RR police's reputation for being anti-railfan, I figured I wouldn't press my luck.
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Avalanchez71

Quote from: MNHighwayMan on June 19, 2018, 07:11:11 PM
Not sure where to post this, so I'll just post it here.

For those of us who aren't content with only taking pictures while driving, has anyone ever been harassed or hassled by police while doing so? For me, personally, I have not, as I try to park in legal locations and respect other vehicle traffic while on foot or stopping at the side of the road. I've had several encounters with law enforcement of different kinds, but it has always been of the "are you okay?"/wellness check variety, usually because I'm pulled over with my hazard flashers on. Some have asked what I'm doing, but I've never gotten a negative response from the answer "just out taking pictures."

I'm curious to know if other road photography enthusiasts have had the same experience as me, or if they've been hassled by local/county/state/(or even military, if you happen to be near a base or whatever) police in some form or another, or even private security for local businesses and the like.

Just say I don't answer questions.  Repeat and rinse.

1995hoo

I was mildly disappointed Sunday when nobody at the Domino's in my neighborhood tried to hassle me when I took a picture of this as I walked past on my way home from a nearby store.

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TheHighwayMan3561

Quote from: Avalanchez71 on November 10, 2020, 03:40:33 PM
Quote from: MNHighwayMan on June 19, 2018, 07:11:11 PM
Not sure where to post this, so I'll just post it here.

For those of us who aren't content with only taking pictures while driving, has anyone ever been harassed or hassled by police while doing so? For me, personally, I have not, as I try to park in legal locations and respect other vehicle traffic while on foot or stopping at the side of the road. I've had several encounters with law enforcement of different kinds, but it has always been of the "are you okay?"/wellness check variety, usually because I'm pulled over with my hazard flashers on. Some have asked what I'm doing, but I've never gotten a negative response from the answer "just out taking pictures."

I'm curious to know if other road photography enthusiasts have had the same experience as me, or if they've been hassled by local/county/state/(or even military, if you happen to be near a base or whatever) police in some form or another, or even private security for local businesses and the like.

Just say I don't answer questions.  Repeat and rinse.

I know you've gotten into the necroing random stuff, but this is quite literally a necro because the person you're responding to passed away.
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