What's your favorite street blade design?

Started by wolfiefrick, November 27, 2018, 10:59:15 PM

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wolfiefrick



This is a street blade assembly in St. Louis County. These street blades are erected at intersections containing one or more thoroughfares maintained by the St. Louis County Dept. of Transportation, and as far as I'm aware, the specs for its design are, sadly, nowhere to be found.

Has anyone seen this design elsewhere? I'm dying to figure out how they're designed because they're utterly gorgeous.

Furthermore, what do street blades look like where you all live, and, in your opinion, what's the best looking street blade you've seen? Far too often, I see poorly designed street blades that are borderline illegible and I always appreciate when I can read the name of the street I'm driving on.


index

#1

Definitely not anything you can find in North Carolina, for the most part. I have a particular liking for blue street blades in Clearview with a rounded outline and square corners. A local emblem on the street blade is also nice, I like the city of Charlotte's crown on theirs.

A lot of street blades here in North Carolina are pretty...bad. The NCSMUTCD (North Carolina Supplement to the MUTCD) states that street blades are the responsibility of the county or the municipality, and it's usually the only thing road-wise maintained on the local level here. NCDOT maintains almost everything.


As a result of this, you get some pretty...bad street blades. Incorrect shades of green, incorrect fonts, (lime green and Algerian, anybody? absolutely beautiful /s) tons of extra green space, and in general, they're just...awful. Only a handful of municipalities actually do the street blades right, most of them are awful. Here in my county, most street blades are in all-caps Arial or Arial Narrow, with some of them having way too much green space and the wrong shade of green.
I love my 2010 Ford Explorer.



Counties traveled

Henry

For me, it's the ones I grew up with in Chicago, and that's the signs with the street name on top and the block number on the bottom; it gives you a better clue as to where you are. Also, the ones with the direction prefix are useful to me.
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roadman

Quote from: wolfiefrick on November 27, 2018, 10:59:15 PM


This is a street blade assembly in St. Louis County. These street blades are erected at intersections containing one or more thoroughfares maintained by the St. Louis County Dept. of Transportation, and as far as I'm aware, the specs for its design are, sadly, nowhere to be found.

Has anyone seen this design elsewhere? I'm dying to figure out how they're designed because they're utterly gorgeous.

Furthermore, what do street blades look like where you all live, and, in your opinion, what's the best looking street blade you've seen? Far too often, I see poorly designed street blades that are borderline illegible and I always appreciate when I can read the name of the street I'm driving on.

Like the design, but not the mounting.  Most communities in Massachusetts, and MassDOT as well, have been moving away from bracket-mounting to using back to back SNS panels mounted through square tube telescopic posts.  Much more durable than the brackets, especially during windy conditions.
"And ninety-five is the route you were on.  It was not the speed limit sign."  - Jim Croce (from Speedball Tucker)

"My life has been a tapestry
Of years of roads and highway signs" (with apologies to Carole King and Tom Rush)

6a

Champaign County, Ohio, and more recently Licking County, have been using these. I like them because they're easily legible and uncluttered.  They are odd in a way in that they omit "Rd"  for roads, but they do use the suffix for everything else.


wolfiefrick

I finally found the specifications for the St. Louis County street blades! It was hidden deep within the transportation department's section of the site, under the Standard Drawings section.

Here's a link to the PDF.

Scott5114

Favorite is probably the style Springfield, MO was using in 2008 when I lived there. Simple, includes all the information you'd ever need, and plus, it uses the chocolate mixed-case FHWA.


Norman's current style is pretty good, although it uses vanilla Series B. They omit the block information on non-arterials.


Plus, they do some pretty rad stuff with shields on them.


Honorable mention goes to Kansas City, KS, which I don't seem to have any photos of. It's a nice, simple all-caps style that I've always liked. Not a fan of what they've been trying since the 2009 MUTCD came out and required mixed-case, though.
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Roadsguy

I've always liked Philly's design.



Usually they'll add a one-way sign as part of the panel; often for signed routes they'll include the shield and letter directions with arrows.
Mileage-based exit numbering implies the existence of mileage-cringe exit numbering.

US 89

#8
I have always been a fan of Denver's street blades, including both the regular design and the one used at traffic signals.

One weird thing I've noticed about numbers on street blades -- they mean different things depending on where you are. In some areas like Denver, they typically refer to the grid coordinate of the street it's on, so Kalamath would be equivalent to 1100 West in the second example above (and a corresponding address on Cedar would be 1100 W Cedar Ave). But in other places like New Mexico, they refer to the coordinate of the street you are on. For example, on this sign in Albuquerque, that 6300 refers to the addressing on San Mateo, and a corresponding address on Academy would actually be 5300 based on the other sign at that intersection.

briantroutman

Perhaps it's just due to familiarity, but I'm partial to the design that was prevalent in the township where I grew up. It's a simple, elegant design with a few touches to make it look finished but not to the point of looking overwrought or compromising legibility. And I like the stamped metal.

I assume it's a standardized type that was mass produced by a sign manufacturer since I've seen these in a few communities–and simply by searching "street sign"  on a Google image search, I was able to find a few examples.



Scott5114

I have one of those in my collection that says HYRDAULIC–presumably from Wichita, Kansas.
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

Eth

I admire the ones in Marietta, GA for being easily readable from a distance (mostly on account of being gigantic). Also for including block numbers without cramming them into a small space.



Quote from: Scott5114 on November 30, 2018, 09:57:40 AM
Norman's current style is pretty good, although it uses vanilla Series B. They omit the block information on non-arterials.

The new ones going up here in my town look exactly like this. They're fine. Better than the previous ones (all-caps Series C (I think, maybe B), and smaller).

Mark68

Quote from: US 89 on November 30, 2018, 10:52:26 AM
I have always been a fan of Denver's street blades, including both the regular design and the one used at traffic signals.

One weird thing I've noticed about numbers on street blades -- they mean different things depending on where you are. In some areas like Denver, they typically refer to the grid coordinate of the street it's on, so Kalamath would be equivalent to 1100 West in the second example above (and a corresponding address on Cedar would be 1100 W Cedar Ave). But in other places like New Mexico, they refer to the coordinate of the street you are on. For example, on this sign in Albuquerque, that 6300 refers to the addressing on San Mateo, and a corresponding address on Academy would actually be 5300 based on the other sign at that intersection.

I, too, am a fan of the Denver designs. I believe that Denver might be the only place where the block numbers listed on the blades correspond to the grid coordinate of the street you're crossing instead of the street you're on. Where I grew up (Orange County), the block numbers, if listed, indicate the street you're on. I think Denver's are much more helpful.

Here, in Parker, CO, we have street blades and lit street signs on the signals that match in terms of design, although the fonts are all over the place on the signal signs.

https://goo.gl/maps/XJxSvmojiwp

https://goo.gl/maps/xtkXrggZppm
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it."~Yogi Berra

Mark68

As far as my favorite, I don't know if I have A favorite, but I do like the LED street blades on traffic lights in my hometown (Anaheim), as seen here:

https://goo.gl/maps/6huHBoMdroB2

But for regular street blades, I kinda like the ones in neighboring Orange:

https://goo.gl/maps/8n5PLx7qftL2

And in Redlands, CA:

https://goo.gl/maps/KSJakwqZEtT2
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it."~Yogi Berra

kphoger

Quote from: Scott5114 on November 30, 2018, 11:27:58 AM
I have one of those in my collection that says HYRDAULIC–presumably from Wichita, Kansas.

Wow, a spelling error street blade??   :-D

* kphoger is currently typing from a location on Hydraulic.
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Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

US 89

Quote from: Mark68 on November 30, 2018, 12:36:56 PM
I believe that Denver might be the only place where the block numbers listed on the blades correspond to the grid coordinate of the street you're crossing instead of the street you're on. Where I grew up (Orange County), the block numbers, if listed, indicate the street you're on. I think Denver's are much more helpful.

Most (all?) numbers on street blades in Utah are the grid coordinates as well, which is unsurprising given that a lot of roads there are actually named by their coordinate. I've also seen the coordinates used in Phoenix. I agree that they're much more helpful than block numbers: if I'm driving on 6th Street, seeing a 600 on every sign I pass is not going to be heipful.

Of course, you could always just go the way some Phoenix suburbs have gone and put both numbers on the sign.

kphoger

#16
Assuming there's a street blade for both streets at a given intersection, then you'll get to see both sets of information anyway.

There are advantages and disadvantages to both ways of doing things.  For the sake of this illustration, I picked a random intersection in Denver:
heading north on Pearl Street, approaching Virginia Avenue.

The sign most visible to you is [Virginia Ave][500 S].

Advantage:  It lets you know you're crossing the 500 South line of the address grid.  Say, if you're looking for someone's house at 204 S Pearl, then you know you have about three blocks to go.

Disadvantage:  If you've been reading house numbers as you go, then you already know you're crossing the 500 South line of the address grid.  But if you're looking for someone's house at 518 E Virginia, then you can't tell from the sign which way you should turn.




Wichita's system annoys me. 

For the sake of this illustration, I picked a random intersection in Wichita:
heading east on Central Avenue, approaching Saint Paul Street.

The sign most visible to you is [St Paul][600 N].  This corresponds to the address grid along St Paul, not Central.  So now you should know which way to turn if you're looking for 613 N Saint Paul.  But wait!  Central is not actually the 600 North line of Saint Paul.  It's actually the 700 North line.  "600 N" actually refers to the 600-block of Saint Paul.  Street blades on the right side of the street have a different number than street blades on the left side of the street.

To find out how far along your street you are, you look at your street's blade.  Unfortunately, from what I've seen, they only use whole-100 block numbers.  This means that, at two consecutive intersections, you might see the same 100-block on your street's blade.  So, for example, along 2nd Street North:  Bluff is 3800 East, but somehow so is Quentin–and there are houses in between them!  This is not useful for navigation.




My preference is the Denver system, which is also what Chicago does.  And I do like Chicago's street blades.  Basic, to the point, with grid numbers included.  However, I think they're only for stoplights; minor intersections don't list the grid numbers.


Edited because I confused myself.
Keep right except to pass.  Yes.  You.
Visit scenic Orleans County, NY!
Male pronouns, please.

Quote from: Philip K. DickIf you can control the meaning of words, you can control the people who must use them.

NoGoodNamesAvailable

For me, all-caps disqualifies a street blade from the "best" category. Even putting MUTCD compliance aside, mixed case is clearly so much easier to read from a distance, and in my opinion just looks better.

Mark68

Quote from: US 89 on November 30, 2018, 03:30:08 PM
Quote from: Mark68 on November 30, 2018, 12:36:56 PM
I believe that Denver might be the only place where the block numbers listed on the blades correspond to the grid coordinate of the street you're crossing instead of the street you're on. Where I grew up (Orange County), the block numbers, if listed, indicate the street you're on. I think Denver's are much more helpful.

Most (all?) numbers on street blades in Utah are the grid coordinates as well, which is unsurprising given that a lot of roads there are actually named by their coordinate. I've also seen the coordinates used in Phoenix. I agree that they're much more helpful than block numbers: if I'm driving on 6th Street, seeing a 600 on every sign I pass is not going to be heipful.

Of course, you could always just go the way some Phoenix suburbs have gone and put both numbers on the sign.

Colorado Springs does this as well (at least on relatively new traffic lights), but they make it confusing:

https://goo.gl/maps/b9i6BYkyxRt

If you don't know in which direction you're heading (you don't know that the mountains are west of you), then you may not know which block applies to which street in which direction.
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it."~Yogi Berra

US 89

Quote from: kphoger on November 30, 2018, 04:19:05 PM
Advantage:  It lets you know you're crossing the 500 South line of the address grid.  Say, if you're looking for someone's house at 204 S Pearl, then you know you have about three blocks to go.

FTFY.

Quote from: kphoger on November 30, 2018, 04:19:05 PM
Disadvantage:  If you've been reading house numbers as you go, then you already know you're crossing the 500 South line of the address grid.  But if you're looking for someone's house at 518 E Virginia, then you can't tell from the sign which way you should turn.

But you would have noted that Pearl was 600 East when you first turned onto it (and then probably passed several more street signs confirming it), and you'd be able to tell you're heading north by the fact that the "south" coordinates you pass are getting smaller. In addition, most cars these days have a compass. Given that knowledge, you'd know you needed to make a left.

Now that you've mentioned Pearl, I remember eating at a delicious Asian restaurant on Pearl about ten years ago. Unfortunately, it looks like it's now gone...

wolfiefrick

Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on November 30, 2018, 04:35:02 PM
For me, all-caps disqualifies a street blade from the "best" category. Even putting MUTCD compliance aside, mixed case is clearly so much easier to read from a distance, and in my opinion just looks better.

I've always found mixed case street blades harder to read from long distances unless they're physically large. For smaller 9"  and 6"  street blades, though, all caps can be more legible since every letter is tall.

There are some municipalities that really can't design mixed case street blades without them looking like utter shit, so I guess I've just grown accustomed to St. Louis County's gorgeous street blades. Maybe I'll make a mock-up of an STL county spec blade in mixed case to see how it looks.

index




I've designed what I like to see in a street blade. Kind of messy but it gets the point across.
I love my 2010 Ford Explorer.



Counties traveled

Scott5114

Quote from: wolfiefrick on November 30, 2018, 05:21:11 PM
Quote from: NoGoodNamesAvailable on November 30, 2018, 04:35:02 PM
For me, all-caps disqualifies a street blade from the "best" category. Even putting MUTCD compliance aside, mixed case is clearly so much easier to read from a distance, and in my opinion just looks better.

I've always found mixed case street blades harder to read from long distances unless they're physically large. For smaller 9"  and 6"  street blades, though, all caps can be more legible since every letter is tall.

FHWA has enough studies saying that mixed-case is more legible that, in 2009, they began requiring all blades to be in mixed case. The reason is because the ascenders and descenders on lowercase letters form a distinct shape/pattern that the brain recognizes faster, whereas words in all caps form a squarish block.

If St. Louis County is still posting all-caps blades, they are not in compliance with the MUTCD. Otherwise, you should be able to find a mixed-case one somewhere and see for yourself what it looks like.

Quote from: kphoger on November 30, 2018, 01:52:44 PM
Quote from: Scott5114 on November 30, 2018, 11:27:58 AM
I have one of those in my collection that says HYRDAULIC–presumably from Wichita, Kansas.

Wow, a spelling error street blade??   :-D

* kphoger is currently typing from a location on Hydraulic.

Give me a break, it was ass o'clock in the morning when I posted that :-D
uncontrollable freak sardine salad chef

jakeroot

#23
The two Vancouvers seem to do it for me!

Vancouver, BC's grey-ish/brown-ish street blades have this odd trapezoidal shape. Very timeless but unique:


image from davievillage.ca

Vancouver, WA's black-on-white street blades are also a timeless but unique design. Not unique to Vancouver at all, but seemingly rarer in US cities than ever before. Vancouver went through this brief phase where they used black-on-yellow street blades...glad they got away from that. I am patiently awaiting their first back-lit black-on-white street blade:



Renton, WA used black-on-white street blades for a long time as well, and in a way that I really liked, but has moved away from them as their signals slowly move away from pole-mount-only:


roadfro

I like what we do in Nevada. Here's some of my favorite styles — note that block numbers are of the intersecting street:

For normal street name signs:
*Southern Nevada City of Las Vegas/Unincorporated Clark County current standard (The white-on-brown denotes privately-maintained streets, which is also mentioned on the sign). Henderson uses a similar standard, but incorporates the city logo. North Las Vegas uses similar standard, but is white-on-blue for normal streets and blue-on-white for privately maintained streets.
*Northern Nevada: City of Reno current standard

For traffic signal street name signs:
*Southern Nevada: City of Las Vegas/Unincorporated Clark County current standard (doesn't always include a white border). I appreciate these newer signs having the street name really big to aid in readability from a distance.
*Northern Nevada: City of Sparks current standard. Although I think the city logo could be smaller and the street suffix should be all caps, I appreciate the block number now includes an arrow to indicate direction of increasing address numbers.
*Classic: Old statewide standard, no longer widely specified. Still prevalent in many areas of the state, but virtually non-existent in the Las Vegas area anymore (phase out/replacement began in earnest during the late 1990s/early 2000s).
Roadfro - AARoads Pacific Southwest moderator since 2010, Nevada roadgeek since 1983.



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