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Author Topic: Maryland  (Read 346933 times)

cl94

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1400 on: December 25, 2017, 11:30:32 PM »

The southern end of the Outer Harbor Crossing begins at the mainline crossover just east of the MD 2 overpass, where the ramps to and from MD 10 link with the Beltway. The northern end of the Outer Harbor Crossing begins just north of an overpass over a set of railroad tracks and a former railroad yard, just to the south of the wide median area where the outer Back River crossing was planned to link with the Patapsco Freeway. Both ends of the crossing are posted with signage stating “BEGIN/END SHA MAINTENANCE” and “BEGIN/END MDTA MAINTENANCE”.

Those jurisdiction limits make sense. The SW jurisdiction change is just west of the Beltway's short foray into Baltimore City. Since SHA maintains nothing in Baltimore City, everything inside the City other than the bridge needs to be MDTA or city maintenance. SE change allows MDTA to maintain the Bear Creek viaduct.

MD 695 begins at the ramp gore of the I-695/I-97 interchange and ends at the midpoint of the northern I-95/I-695 interchange, between US 1 and MD 7. I’ve never seen a sign goof along this segment with a MD 695 shield shown.

In the early days of the FSK (especially when both approach roads were Super-2 highways after it opened in 1977), there were MD-695 shields to be seen along the MDTA-maintained part of the road (all of the Super-2 segments were MDTA maintenance).

They didn't pull a Maine/Utah and just sign the super-2 as I-695? Of course, this begs the question of why MD 695 even exists anymore. Is the Curtis Creek bridge the only thing preventing the designation at this point?
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cpzilliacus

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1401 on: December 26, 2017, 12:58:23 AM »

The southern end of the Outer Harbor Crossing begins at the mainline crossover just east of the MD 2 overpass, where the ramps to and from MD 10 link with the Beltway. The northern end of the Outer Harbor Crossing begins just north of an overpass over a set of railroad tracks and a former railroad yard, just to the south of the wide median area where the outer Back River crossing was planned to link with the Patapsco Freeway. Both ends of the crossing are posted with signage stating “BEGIN/END SHA MAINTENANCE” and “BEGIN/END MDTA MAINTENANCE”.

Those jurisdiction limits make sense. The SW jurisdiction change is just west of the Beltway's short foray into Baltimore City. Since SHA maintains nothing in Baltimore City, everything inside the City other than the bridge needs to be MDTA or city maintenance. SE change allows MDTA to maintain the Bear Creek viaduct.

Though the southern/western end of state maintenance between MD-10 and MD-2 was motivated by another reason - that was the limit of construction for the FSK approach road (before the FSK opened, the old Baltimore Beltway came to an end at the MD-2 interchange), with most traffic leaving at MD-3 (I-97 today) the Glen Burnie Bypass; or at what is now signed as I-895B (to get to MD-2 southbound).

MD 695 begins at the ramp gore of the I-695/I-97 interchange and ends at the midpoint of the northern I-95/I-695 interchange, between US 1 and MD 7. I’ve never seen a sign goof along this segment with a MD 695 shield shown.

In the early days of the FSK (especially when both approach roads were Super-2 highways after it opened in 1977), there were MD-695 shields to be seen along the MDTA-maintained part of the road (all of the Super-2 segments were MDTA maintenance).

They didn't pull a Maine/Utah and just sign the super-2 as I-695? Of course, this begs the question of why MD 695 even exists anymore. Is the Curtis Creek bridge the only thing preventing the designation at this point?

No, I clearly recall the MD-695 signs (there's one online someplace taken around the west side of the FSK structure). 

As you probably know, I was on I-95 when it was a Super-2 in Maine north of Orono - I think the old four-lane divided freeway may have come to an end north of present-day Exit 197, ME-43, Old Town (based on markings that can be seen on Google).   The Super-2 part of I-95 is the only place in the U.S. where I have seen moose in the wild (I think they liked to graze on some of the plants that could be found along the right-of-way). Yes, all of I-95 in Maine that was complete at the time was signed as I-95. 

There was a missing section of I-95 then that was to run where present-day I-295 does - so as on southbound I-95 in New Jersey, the I-95 shields simply went away on the Maine Turnpike south of Gardiner, and reappeared as if by magic at Portland.  There was another missing part of I-95 at the Piscataqua River, so all I-95 traffic had to use Bypass U.S. 1 instead between New Hampshire and Maine.  That's probably enough about Maine in a Maryland thread. 

Regarding why  there is a MD-695 still, originally it was probably motivated by the Super-2 sections approaching the FSK.  But even now, I wonder if there might be some design issues with the section of MD-695 between the U.S. 40 (Pulaski Highway) interchange (Exit 35) and MD-151 near Sparrows Point (Exit 42).
« Last Edit: December 26, 2017, 12:48:22 PM by cpzilliacus »
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TheOneKEA

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1402 on: December 28, 2017, 08:17:03 PM »

Design issues that come to mind for MD 695 are (from north to south):

- the lack of ramp braiding for the on ramps to and from US 40 and the MD 702 interchange, resulting in lots of weaving
- the use of one-lane exit ramps and flyovers to carry two-lane MD 695 through the MD 702 interchange
- the extremely tight (for an Interstate) curve where the interchange for the Windlass Freeway to I-95 and Moravia Road would be located
- the lack of shoulders on some of the mainline bridges in the MD 150 interchange
- the S curve at the south end of the Key Bridge (what’s the degree of curvature here)?
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cpzilliacus

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1403 on: December 28, 2017, 09:21:06 PM »

Design issues that come to mind for MD 695 are (from north to south):

- the lack of ramp braiding for the on ramps to and from US 40 and the MD 702 interchange, resulting in lots of weaving
- the use of one-lane exit ramps and flyovers to carry two-lane MD 695 through the MD 702 interchange
- the extremely tight (for an Interstate) curve where the interchange for the Windlass Freeway to I-95 and Moravia Road would be located
- the lack of shoulders on some of the mainline bridges in the MD 150 interchange

Agree with your points above - though I think the MD-695 ramps at MD-702 are all two lanes with no shoulders.

And from Google Maps, the interchange at MD-695 and MD-150 looks like an ancient Maryland cloverleaf anyway, something that would not be approved for construction by MDOT/SHA or MDTA today.  The age of this can probably be determined from looking at the ages of the bridges here (both  appear to be stamped 1965), but  I do not feel like looking them up right now.

- the S curve at the south end of the Key Bridge (what’s the degree of curvature here)?

Aside from the lack of shoulders on the FSK, this does not seem all that bad.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2017, 09:34:05 PM by cpzilliacus »
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Beltway

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1404 on: December 28, 2017, 11:13:38 PM »

- the S curve at the south end of the Key Bridge (what’s the degree of curvature here)?
Aside from the lack of shoulders on the FSK, this does not seem all that bad.

What is with the line painting on the Curtis Creek bridges?  They are painted with what looks like two 12-foot lanes and two 6-foot shoulders on each bridge.  Why not a 10-foot shoulder on the right and a 2-foot shoulder on the left?

https://tinyurl.com/ybmtwoe3
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cpzilliacus

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1405 on: December 29, 2017, 11:53:12 AM »

- the S curve at the south end of the Key Bridge (what’s the degree of curvature here)?
Aside from the lack of shoulders on the FSK, this does not seem all that bad.

What is with the line painting on the Curtis Creek bridges?  They are painted with what looks like two 12-foot lanes and two 6-foot shoulders on each bridge.  Why not a 10-foot shoulder on the right and a 2-foot shoulder on the left?

https://tinyurl.com/ybmtwoe3

My guess is that this is a relic of when there was one structure here when this was a Super-2 (which is now the MD-695 Inner Loop (westbound) bridge today), and the  that was for some reason carried-over to the Outer Loop (eastbound) bridge when it was added.
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Beltway

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1406 on: December 29, 2017, 05:01:47 PM »

What is with the line painting on the Curtis Creek bridges?  They are painted with what looks like two 12-foot lanes and two 6-foot shoulders on each bridge.  Why not a 10-foot shoulder on the right and a 2-foot shoulder on the left?
https://tinyurl.com/ybmtwoe3
My guess is that this is a relic of when there was one structure here when this was a Super-2 (which is now the MD-695 Inner Loop (westbound) bridge today), and the  that was for some reason carried-over to the Outer Loop (eastbound) bridge when it was added.

That was my surmise as well.  It was appropriate when there was one 2-lane bridge.  But that deck was wide enough to repaint as I said above, as was the deck of the second bridge.
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MASTERNC

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1407 on: December 30, 2017, 09:06:26 PM »

Design issues that come to mind for MD 695 are (from north to south):

- the lack of ramp braiding for the on ramps to and from US 40 and the MD 702 interchange, resulting in lots of weaving
- the use of one-lane exit ramps and flyovers to carry two-lane MD 695 through the MD 702 interchange
- the extremely tight (for an Interstate) curve where the interchange for the Windlass Freeway to I-95 and Moravia Road would be located
- the lack of shoulders on some of the mainline bridges in the MD 150 interchange
- the S curve at the south end of the Key Bridge (what’s the degree of curvature here)?

Add to that the ramp braiding between MD 7 and US 40.  I've had to come to a near stop to exit onto US 40 EB from the Inner Loop because of the poor design.
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1995hoo

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1408 on: January 09, 2018, 10:44:37 AM »

MD 695 begins at the ramp gore of the I-695/I-97 interchange and ends at the midpoint of the northern I-95/I-695 interchange, between US 1 and MD 7. I’ve never seen a sign goof along this segment with a MD 695 shield shown.

In the early days of the FSK (especially when both approach roads were Super-2 highways after it opened in 1977), there were MD-695 shields to be seen along the MDTA-maintained part of the road (all of the Super-2 segments were MDTA maintenance).

Forum member "Beltway" has a photo of such on his website. I won't embed it here because I don't know how he feels about such things. Here's the page:

http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Balt_Outer_Harbor.html
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TheOneKEA

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1409 on: January 11, 2018, 06:33:57 AM »

MD 695 begins at the ramp gore of the I-695/I-97 interchange and ends at the midpoint of the northern I-95/I-695 interchange, between US 1 and MD 7. I’ve never seen a sign goof along this segment with a MD 695 shield shown.

In the early days of the FSK (especially when both approach roads were Super-2 highways after it opened in 1977), there were MD-695 shields to be seen along the MDTA-maintained part of the road (all of the Super-2 segments were MDTA maintenance).

Forum member "Beltway" has a photo of such on his website. I won't embed it here because I don't know how he feels about such things. Here's the page:

http://www.roadstothefuture.com/Balt_Outer_Harbor.html

I don’t perceive this as a sign goof. I’m thinking about things like construction signage, waypoint signage on connecting highways, and milepost signage.
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1995hoo

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1410 on: January 11, 2018, 07:27:38 AM »

^^^^
I didn’t mean to imply it was a goof. I was replying to cpzilliacus’s comment about there formerly having been MD-695 shields in place.
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Beltway

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1411 on: January 11, 2018, 07:58:36 AM »

^^^^
I didn’t mean to imply it was a goof. I was replying to cpzilliacus’s comment about there formerly having been MD-695 shields in place.

It did, the MD-695 signs were posted along the beltway route between MD-2 and MD-151.
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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1412 on: January 13, 2018, 06:46:09 PM »

We're still waiting in Centreville, MD for the change in traffic patterns on MD 213, because of the brutal weather recently.

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1995hoo

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1413 on: January 13, 2018, 07:09:09 PM »

^^^^
I didn’t mean to imply it was a goof. I was replying to cpzilliacus’s comment about there formerly having been MD-695 shields in place.

It did, the MD-695 signs were posted along the beltway route between MD-2 and MD-151.

Isn't that more or less what I said above—though, to be sure, with less detail than you've provided—when I linked to your site?
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cpzilliacus

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1414 on: January 15, 2018, 10:27:42 PM »

Is the Curtis Creek bridge the only thing preventing the designation at this point?

Speaking of Curtis Creek, most of the work to divert all traffic in both directions onto the  Outer Loop (normally eastbound traffic only).  The eastbound side is now one lane wide, westbound was (as of the other day) still on the normally  Inner Loop (westbound) side of the freeway.
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cl94

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1415 on: January 15, 2018, 10:51:56 PM »

Is the Curtis Creek bridge the only thing preventing the designation at this point?

Speaking of Curtis Creek, most of the work to divert all traffic in both directions onto the  Outer Loop (normally eastbound traffic only).  The eastbound side is now one lane wide, westbound was (as of the other day) still on the normally  Inner Loop (westbound) side of the freeway.

Yeah, they were getting ready to start contraflow over there when I was through on Thursday. VMSes indicated that it would start today or tomorrow. EB went to one lane around MD 10 and it was backed up past I-97. Thankfully, I was going WB.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1416 on: January 16, 2018, 12:42:40 AM »

Yeah, they were getting ready to start contraflow over there when I was through on Thursday. VMSes indicated that it would start today or tomorrow. EB went to one lane around MD 10 and it was backed up past I-97. Thankfully, I was going WB.

Traditionally, the FSK Bridge and its MD-695 approaches have not ever been subject to much recurring congestion, because most movements through the  Baltimore region are on I-95 (or alternatively I-895), with some being I-70 to I-95; I-70 to I-83 (toward York, Pennsylvania); I-97 to I-95 or I-95 to I-83 (all movements from south to north or west to east or west to north).  For none of these movements is MD-695 an especially attractive route, with the notable exception of trucks hauling placarded loads (no HAZMATs through  the tunnels on I-95 and I-895) and trucks that are too high  for I-895 (maximum height there is 13' 6") or too wide (maximum width is 96").

If the  congestion you observed was in the afternoon, then that may be people trying to get home to more-affordable housing on the east side of the Baltimore region to communities like Dundalk, Edgemere, Middle River and so forth. After everyone gets used to this project, I  presume that some may be taking  I-95 or I-895 instead (presumably they will return to MD-695 when the bridge project at Curtis Creek is complete and the long-term single-lane project on I-895 gets under way).
« Last Edit: January 16, 2018, 12:46:43 AM by cpzilliacus »
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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1417 on: January 16, 2018, 02:48:56 PM »

Is the Curtis Creek bridge the only thing preventing the designation at this point?

New York State is notorious for this kind of thing, btw... see I-787/NY-787, I-878/NY-878, I-390/NY-390, to name the first few that come to my mind.  I believe a portion of the LIE may have even been signed as NY-495 -- I seem to remember seeing some NY-495 reassurance markers in Queens when I was younger than 10 (but I thought some of the LIE was once signed as NY-24, which would explain the break in NY-24 at the Suffolk County line and the resumption in the route near Riverhead).  Anyway, I digress.

Perhaps this is nit-picky, BUT terescoj's clinched highways logger ( http://tm.teresco.org ) seemingly makes no distinction between MD I-695 and MD MD695 (to speak in the code of the .list files required for clinched highway tracking).  Also, I've never seen an MD-695 shield posted, but that doesn't mean they don't or didn't exist.  I'd argue that the ramps at the "Oops, we can't build I-695 this way anymore because the residents are protesting highway construction" area at MD-702 would be enough to prevent the Interstate highway designation unless a waiver has been granted a la the portion of I-93 in New Hampshire running through Franconia Notch (the former site of the Old Man of the Mountain).  I moved out of New Hampshire and even out of New England before that waiver was granted -- I remember when I lived in NH in 2001-2002, this section was clearly signed "to I-93" with a separate set of exit numbers -- so all they needed to do was take down the "TO" banners and perhaps re-number the exits.

1995hoo

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1418 on: January 19, 2018, 09:20:56 AM »

A state senator from PG County introduced a bill that would mandate 70-mph speed limits on the Beltway and I-270. The amusing part? It's Senate Bill 55.

https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2018/01/hit-the-gas-md-lawmaker-wants-to-up-speed-limits-on-i-495-i-270/

I cannot imagine this will even clear committee, much less pass the general assembly.
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cpzilliacus

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1419 on: January 19, 2018, 04:59:41 PM »

A state senator from PG County introduced a bill that would mandate 70-mph speed limits on the Beltway and I-270. The amusing part? It's Senate Bill 55.

https://wtop.com/dc-transit/2018/01/hit-the-gas-md-lawmaker-wants-to-up-speed-limits-on-i-495-i-270/

I cannot imagine this will even clear committee, much less pass the general assembly.

MDOT/SHA and MDTA do not especially appreciate being told what speed limits to set and where by the General Assembly.

But - IMO - the 55 MPH  limit on much of the Maryland part of the Capital Beltway is a relic of the NMSL (1973), and the limits should be set at something that is closer to the observed 85th percentile speed.

Not so long ago, I deliberately drove 55 MPH for about 25 miles (in the right or right/center lanes) on this freeway.  I passed nearly zero cars or trucks and was passed by everyone else.  Consider that posted speed limits  here were between 60 MPH and 70 MPH from 1964 to 1973, when the NMSL was imposed.
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1995hoo

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1420 on: January 19, 2018, 08:17:23 PM »

Oh, I agree that 55 is absurdly low and that you’re a hazard if you drive that slowly. But I can’t imagine that bill will ever pass.

I try to keep it to 65 on the Beltway in Maryland and even that’s pretty slow, especially in PG County between Route 50 and the Wilson Bridge.
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commenting on the Capitals clinching a playoff spot.

"That sounded stupid, didn't it?"—Kolzig, to the same reporter a few seconds later.

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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1421 on: January 20, 2018, 10:40:28 AM »

But - IMO - the 55 MPH  limit on much of the Maryland part of the Capital Beltway is a relic of the NMSL (1973), and the limits should be set at something that is closer to the observed 85th percentile speed.

The Beltway is hardly unique. So much of Maryland's freeway mileage is posted at 55. If it's not an Interstate, it's almost certainly posted at 55. These speeds are ridiculous on MD 32, MD 100, US 29, etc., etc. Why is the SHA so hung up on 55 MPH?
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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1422 on: January 20, 2018, 06:20:11 PM »

Aside from a 60 mph zone in MD and the occasional 70 mph zone in MD, PA, and NH, the northeast, with the exception of Maine, has really never left NMSL.  Aside from the above, the only indications that can be found in the entire region that NMSL was ever repealed are 65 mph limits on some non-interstate freeways.
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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1423 on: January 20, 2018, 08:00:52 PM »

If the Pennsylvania Turnpike can be 70, almost any rural or suburban expressway can be at least 70, and many in the northeast could be at least 75 given some safety improvements (I-78, Northeast Extension south of Lehigh Tunnel, PA Turnpike Blue Mountain-Gettysburg and Great Valley-Bensalem, most of the NJ Turnpike, etc.).
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Re: Maryland
« Reply #1424 on: January 20, 2018, 08:44:57 PM »

Aside from a 60 mph zone in MD and the occasional 70 mph zone in MD, PA, and NH, the northeast, with the exception of Maine, has really never left NMSL.  Aside from the above, the only indications that can be found in the entire region that NMSL was ever repealed are 65 mph limits on some non-interstate freeways.
What is the speed limit on 301 on the Eastern Shore?  Should be 65

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