Birmingham Northern Beltline (I-422, I-959)

[Henry]

I see your 2000, and raise you a 5000 year ROI!

Anybody want to try for 10,000?

[Tourian]

the current tiny segment that is under construction is such a bizarre place to start, what if this project gets cancelled or delayed significantly?  this is just an overbuilt county road connector at this point!

Where would be the best place to start?

[bigdave]

A new study suggests the Northern Beltline would cause a $2.67 million economic impact each year in the Birmingham area and create about 14,000 jobs with an average salary of more than $61,000 -- an amount higher than the median Alabama income.  The study was done by the Appalachian Regional Commission. 
http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2017/07/northern_beltline_to_make_267.html

The article actually states a $26.7 billion impact in the first ten years, making it $2.67 billion per year.

The study defies belief. Must have been funded by USX. 

David

[Charles2]

In 2054...

* I would be 94.
* My brothers would be 92 and 79.
* My daughter will be 57.
* My niece will be 58.
* My nephews will be 56 and 42.

Hope the kids will enjoy the ride!

[codyg1985]

Has the segment between state highways 75 and 79 been completed yet? Its completion date was said to be last fall.

The grade and drain is finished, but there are multiple bridges that have to be built next and then a separate paving contract would be let. I don't think even this short segment will see traffic anytime soon.

One thing that is special about this segment is that it traverses a small mountain so maybe ALDOT wanted to get that one out of the way?

[bigdave]

The grade and drain is finished, but there are multiple bridges that have to be built next and then a separate paving contract would be let. I don't think even this short segment will see traffic anytime soon.

It puzzles me how sometimes ALDoT will partially construct a highway in this manner and then let it sit for a couple of years before resuming work. (I think they also did this on the Gadsden east bypass.)

When they resume, don't they have to spend money fixing erosion that occurs during the fallow years when there's no pavement or vegetation?

[ARMOURERERIC]

I also think some dot entities are learning to get the grading for the most enviromentally disrupting section under contract first and get it out of the way.

[codyg1985]

The grade and drain is finished, but there are multiple bridges that have to be built next and then a separate paving contract would be let. I don't think even this short segment will see traffic anytime soon.

It puzzles me how sometimes ALDoT will partially construct a highway in this manner and then let it sit for a couple of years before resuming work. (I think they also did this on the Gadsden east bypass.)

When they resume, don't they have to spend money fixing erosion that occurs during the fallow years when there's no pavement or vegetation?

The uncompleted AL 13 four-lane near Phil Campbell has been sitting like that for about 15 years now. It is a road to nowhere right now (and will probably be for some time).

I also think some dot entities are learning to get the grading for the most enviromentally disrupting section under contract first and get it out of the way.

This section was definitely one of the more environmentally disrupting sections. It is also why the bridges that will need to be built will be longer and higher than normal.

[vdeane]

When they resume, don't they have to spend money fixing erosion that occurs during the fallow years when there's no pavement or vegetation?

I wonder the same thing.

[BamaZeus]

Not surprisingly, work on the bypass has been halted until at least 2019.
http://www.wbrc.com/story/36135333/aldot-says-northern-beltline-construction-stopped-until-2019

[freebrickproductions]

I'm almost certain that at this point, this thread is longer than the current amount of road that we're discussing that's been built...

[bigdave]

I'm almost certain that at this point, this thread is longer than the current amount of road that we're discussing that's been built...

You would be correct since there at this point in time there is 1.34 miles that is graded, but not paved and missing other items such as bridges.    So my opinion is that zero miles have actually been "built."

For that matter, I didn't think it was "news" that the next phase didn't start for two years.

Yet the ARC projects a $2.67 billion (yes that's billion with a B) per year impact once the entire thing is built. I have to think that's completely a work of fiction unless the ARC expects Zimbabwe level inflation between now and 2054.

I'm wondering how much of I-65 could be three-laned between Huntsville and Mobile for the over $5 billion (yes that's billion with a B) cost for this gift to the large landowners of JeffCo.

[Voyager75]

They really should just finish the 1.75 mile section as a new alignment of AL 151 and call it a day. I remember when I was in my early 20's 15 years ago and thought I would get to drive to my grandmothers house in Rock Creek on the "North section of 459" and save 20 minutes of driving. She died 5 years ago and my kids will probably never drive on it.

[codyg1985]

If the eastern leg between I-65 and I-59 is built then it would provide a bypass for I-65 through traffic.

[froggie]

^ Theoretically, yes.  But given the extra distance plus the grades along 459, no sane trucker (and few regular drivers) would actually use it as such.  It would be over 45 miles long, compared to roughly 23 miles along existing I-65.  I-65 delays would have to reach 30+ minutes (assuming no delay along 459) for such a bypass route starts becoming worthwhile.

[lordsutch]

^ Theoretically, yes.  But given the extra distance plus the grades along 459, no sane trucker (and few regular drivers) would actually use it as such.  It would be over 45 miles long, compared to roughly 23 miles along existing I-65.  I-65 delays would have to reach 30+ minutes (assuming no delay along 459) for such a bypass route starts becoming worthwhile.

Except ALDOT already bans through trucks inside I-459 except for I-65 north (and I-22) traffic. They could extend the ban to all through trucks if they complete the NE quadrant.

Not that they ever will unless billions of dollars suddenly parachute in from Washington, although that's only likely if APD ever becomes a dedicated pot of money again.

[Tourian]

Except ALDOT already bans through trucks inside I-459 except for I-65 north (and I-22) traffic. They could extend the ban to all through trucks if they complete the NE quadrant.

Exactly.

[amroad17]

Do I possibly hear a southern "Goat Path Expressway"?
ALDOT projects to have the project done by 2054.  Are they referring to this short section or the entirety of I-422 and I-222? 

[amroad17]

The grade and drain is finished, but there are multiple bridges that have to be built next and then a separate paving contract would be let. I don't think even this short segment will see traffic anytime soon.

It puzzles me how sometimes ALDoT will partially construct a highway in this manner and then let it sit for a couple of years before resuming work. (I think they also did this on the Gadsden east bypass.)

When they resume, don't they have to spend money fixing erosion that occurs during the fallow years when there's no pavement or vegetation?

The uncompleted AL 13 four-lane near Phil Campbell has been sitting like that for about 15 years now. It is a road to nowhere right now (and probably will be for some time).

I also think some dot entities are learning to get the grading for the most enviromentally disrupting section under contract first and get it out of the way.

This section was definitely one of the more environmentally disrupting sections. It is also why the bridges that will need to be built will be longer and higher than normal.

I'm sorry.  Alabama does have their own version of a "Goat Path Expressway"!  Just checked it out on Google Maps.  What is the reason that it was never completed?

[silverback1065]

this really sounds like a colossal waste of money

[The Ghostbuster]

It probably is. $5.445 billion for a 52 mile roadway is quite a steep price tag.

[codyg1985]

It probably is. $5.445 billion for a 52 mile roadway is quite a steep price tag.

$104 million per mile. That is very expensive, indeed. It may prove to be true given the rugged terrain it is traversing and if ALDOT elects to build the entire thing with six lanes instead of four.

It would be somewhat useful for bypass traffic, but to cut down on expenses then perhaps interchanges should be built only at major spokes (I-20/59, AL 269, I-22, I-65, AL 75, and I-59) while the other interchanges are built later. Also, build out to four lanes but provide enough space for six and build the bridges wide enough for six. Of course, since it is being built in the name of economic development (whatever that means), then it is either full-blown sprawl-inducing bypass or nothing.

[froggie]

The incremental cost of 4 lanes versus 6 is not what's inflating the price tag.  Much of that cost is due to the level of blasting and excavation that would have to take place regardless of how many lanes are built.

Even if they went 4 lanes with minimal interchanges as Cody suggests, I doubt the price tag would drop much below $4 billion, if at all...

[ARMOURERERIC]

Just reading that the new transportation  budget passed today has $30 million earmarked for 422, work will resume.  Cant imagine alot getting done for that amount though.

[BamaZeus]

https://abc3340.com/news/local/ivey-says-birmingham-northern-beltline-construction-to-resume